[Tome of Mary Sues] The Goddamn Barbarian

[CatharzGodfoot]

The Goddamn Barbarian
You are a Goddamn Barbarian. You know that armor is for cowardly villains and mooks. You know that only the weak wield a weapon in less than two hands.You don't fly into a rage at the start of combat, because you're angry all the goddamn time--maybe you'd calm down a bit if people stopped telling you to wield two weapons and wear armor.

BAB: Good.
Fortitude: Good. Reflexes: Poor. Willpower: Poor.

Skills (8/level): Balance, Climb, Intimidate, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Ride, Sense Motive, Spot, Survival.

1 Armored in Oil, Bestial Growl
2 Whirlwind
3 Strong Grip
4 Horde Breaker
5 Heroic Profile, Bear Rider
6 Juggernaut
7 Penetrating Shot, Momentum Swing
8 Murderous Intent
9 Heedless Charge
10 Mage Slayer
11 Magic Bitch

Armored in Oil: you keep your muscles on display at all times. All that oiling has built up such a slick that as long as you don't wear armor, you gain an armor bonus of 4 plus 1/2 your class level plus your strength modifier.

Bestial Growl: You can intimidate any creature, regardless of intelligence or immunity to mind-affecting effects.

Strong Grip: When you wield a weapon in multiple hands, you multiply your strength modifier to damage by the number of hands you use (i.e., a barbarian wielding an axe in both hands adds twice her strength modifier to damage). Yeah, this bows--but not double weapons. You probably already knew that this was an archers' game.

Bear Rider: You can use Intimidate in place of Handle Animal. In addition, you can harness and/or ride large predators without actually using any harnesses or saddles.

Heroic Profile: So long as your face uncovered, you are protected by a continuous effect that works like spell turning (unlimited level) but only against compulsion and fear effects. In addition, people that you intimidate don't hold it against you.

Penetrating Shot: You can use all benefits of the Horde Breaker feat with ranged weapons.

Momentum Swing: You can use any melee weapon of your size or larger as a reach weapon.

Heedless Charge: When charging, you can ignore all 'soft' obstacles (creatures, cover less than 100%, difficult terrain), as well as gravity. As long as you are wielding your weapon with at least two hands, you can power attack by subtracting from your armor class or attack bonus so long as the total amount does not exceed your BAB. As with Strong Grip, this does not work with double weapons.

Magic Bitch: A wizard has fallen hopelessly in love with you. She can be of any gender, age, or species, but is always attractive. Her level is two less than your own, and she follows the normal rules for cohorts. She will accompany you on adventures so long as you bring no other cohorts, and is otherwise willing to do anything for you.

[God_of_Awesome]

Oh, lawdy.

[Kaelik]

1) Huge 1 level dip. Bestial Growl + RNG breaking AC is going to make this mandatory for every fear based character exploiting move action or AoE intimidates.

2) RNG breaking AC doesn't make anyone happy. Like, at all.

3) Heroic Profile should probably say something like "you are protected by a continuous spell turning that only works against compulsion and fear effects."

Because right now it's spell turning, but it also works on AoE or "effect" compulsion and fear effects as well as any and all targeted spells.

[CatharzGodfoot]

1) Huge 1 level dip. Bestial Growl + RNG breaking AC is going to make this mandatory for every fear based character exploiting move action or AoE intimidates.

2) RNG breaking AC doesn't make anyone happy. Like, at all.

I don't see how it's an effective dip unless you combine it with some serious mojo from elsewhere. And it's RNG breaking at higher levels, but no more so than other AC tricks. At higher levels you'l be burning it off for damage bonus most of the time anyway.

3) Heroic Profile should probably say something like "you are protected by a continuous spell turning that only works against compulsion and fear effects."

Because right now it's spell turning, but it also works on AoE or "effect" compulsion and fear effects as well as any and all targeted spells.

Good call, I'll fix it.

[Mask_De_H]

+4 Str +2 Dex +4 fuck year +1 level = AC 21 at 1st. That's a tower shield and Splint Mail without a -TEXAS ACP and a free hand. It only gets better when the AC boosters come online. Tell Dex to fuck off and get Armored in Life off of a Monk Dip for more delicious.

[CatharzGodfoot]

+4 Str +2 Dex +4 fuck year +1 level = AC 21 at 1st. That's a tower shield and Splint Mail without a -TEXAS ACP and a free hand. It only gets better when the AC boosters come online. Tell Dex to fuck off and get Armored in Life off of a Monk Dip for more delicious.

Armored in Life won't do much for this character, seeing as wisdom is generally less useful than dexterity. But yeah, if you prioritize strength and then dexterity then with your main class feature you have an AC one better than someone using a steel shield and full plate. I don't see a problem. Compare to a 1st level monk burning her main class features for AC: 10 +4 (armored in life) +4 (wisdom) +4 (+4 dodge bonus to AC combat style) = 22 at 1st, and that applies against touch and incorporeal touch attacks. Plus a 20% miss chance (concealment fighting style).

Maybe I should boost the 1st level a bit?

And yeah, you can add them together for crazy AC at level 2. But that's mainly an issue with the monk's +4 dodge bonus.

[Username17]

This class is fucking retarded. And since the context is that it was made out of rage without thinking about consequences at all, this is hardly surprising. The character isn't even going to be used the way you want it to be, and isn't good at it. The character doesn't actually have level appropriate abilities for some time. There's no incentive to not use a shield until 3rd level. And frankly, there's precious little reason to play this character as anything bt Robin Hood at high level.

Stop bing so fucking pathetically impetuous about your oiled naked man fantasies. Identify what the current rules do, identify how the current rules support the kinds of oily naked man you like to think about, and then identify what the game would need (if anything) to make your oily naked men level appropriate.

When you do no balance checks at any level at all and identify the "problem" simply by dint of jealousy and intuition, you have no clear design goals. And no clear design goals means that your designed class is going to be a lump of poo. Like this one. And every redesign you make will also be a lump of poo until you do some fucking total character analysis. Stop writing and start calculating. Then come back to this project, or don't because the regular Tome Barbarian actually does Conan just fine.

-Username17

[CatharzGodfoot]

I'm not raging, Frank, I'm laughing. If you don't find this funny, you're either made of stone or your brow is way too high.

The Tome barbarian models Conan just fine, but I think that you're missing the point. And seriously, Frank, your claims that something should be scrapped are worthless at this point. You're clearly just trying to quash anything that doesn't fit your narrow view of what D&D character should look like.

[Username17]

I'm not raging, Frank, I'm laughing. If you don't find this funny, you're either made of stone or your brow is way too high.

The Tome barbarian models Conan just fine, but I think that you're missing the point. And seriously, Frank, your claims that something should be scrapped are worthless at this point. You're clearly just trying to quash anything that doesn't fit your narrow view of what D&D character should look like.

Narrow view? Fuck off.

Seriously. Get fucked you stupid, arrogant piece of shit.

My "narrow view" includes people who fight with nothing but a giant sword and a book, who sing through combat and phase in and out of reality by while beating one things. My "narrow view" includes people who fight by wearing monster costumes and using blue soulfire to emulate monster powers. My "narrow view" includes people who dress like clowns and fight by throwing poison pies at people. My "narrow view" includes people who fight while having heavy armor, a sword, and a shield. My "narrow view" includes people who run around in regular clothing and shoot fire out of their hands. My "narrow view" isn't restricted to a fanservice picture on the front of a magazine.

What my "narrow view" will not accept, is people writing random fucking garbage to address a "problem" that by their own admission they have never actually tested!

-Username17

[CatharzGodfoot]

Alright, I'm sorry. That wasn't fair. Balanced or not, writing up this class was not a nice thing to do.


Even though you don't like fanservice, I could do the whole thing as a normal Tome barbarian, so long as there some kind of appropriately flavored armor (magic or otherwise). Say, "barebarian armor".

[Murtak]

Even though you don't like fanservice, I could do the whole thing as a normal Tome barbarian, so long as there some kind of appropriately flavored armor (magic or otherwise). Say, "barebarian armor".

A level of monk? Bracers of armor?

[Ice9]

Rage, Laughter, Rage, Apologies, Fanservice

... Is there a context I'm missing?

[Kaelik]

1) Carthaz, it's a dip, because the level one ability grants +1 BAB, 8 skill points, and the ability to bypass fear immunity for people who use intimidate.

Since intimidate is a skill check based on size and Str, and you also gain your Str to your AC, that's like mandatory for everyone who uses Intimidate.

It's even more mandatory because there is a skill feat that allows you to intimidate as a move action, and a PrC (and probably a bunch of other stuff) that lets you intimidate an AoE.

So bottom line, it's just a one level dip for every big honkin huge character who takes Large Size and Huge Size and then AoE frightens people and the only way anyone can not be frightened is by having [Character level or HD +Wisdom +modifier on saves versus fear] be within 20 of [Str+size+ranks+CL] And on a character with Large and Huge, that's not going to work.

Sure, it's a one level dip that doesn't come into play until level 11, but any time you make a barbarian that becomes a mandatory one level dip for some kinds of spellcasters, you failed at life.

2) Remember how you just added Str to AC for no reason? The one stat that is easiest to push off the RNG?

You know how Monks don't arbitrarily get to add extra stats to AC? It's because that's dumb.

[CatharzGodfoot]

Kaelic, I'm not going to try to balance this to the Tome of Fiends. That shit does not play well with others.


I'm also not worried about people using it as a 1st level dip for the 32 skill points. The skill list just isn't that impressive. I'm also not worried about people using it as a 1 level dip for the AC. Let's compare:
[*]An orc Goddamn Barbarian 1 with a strength of 22 and a dexterity of 14 has an AC of 23.
[*]An aasimar Monk 1 (as above) with a wisdom of 20 has an AC of 23.

[*]An orc Goddamn Barbarian 1/Fighter 10 with a strength of 33 and a dexterity of 19 has an AC of 30 wearing no armor. 34 if you throw in magic underwear and the enhancement stacks.
[*]An orc Goddamn Barbarian 1/Fighter 10 with a strength of 33 and a dexterity of 19 has an AC of 28 wearing magical mechanus armor.
[*]An aasimar Monk 1/Fighter 10 with a wisdom of 29 has an AC of 34 wearing dragonscale armor.


Finally, the Intimidate skill is charisma based.

[Kaelik]

The intimidate skill is Str or Cha whichever you want in Tome.

Also, I'm now up to three free action intimidates, one swift action, one move action, and one standard action, and intimidate lasts infinity rounds instead of one.

Also, one of them is AoE.

Oh yeah, and they don't run, they cower. So now a level 11 intimidate build instantly and completely defeats any 3-4 enemies it has line of sight to in a single round. With zero chance of error. Yay people who stupidly hand out immunity bypassing effects.

And even if it weren't Str, and the character didn't have access to large and huge size, it just replaces the equation with Cha, so you have:

Cha+size+ranks+CL vs Character level or HD +Wisdom +modifier

So even if we assume a medium creature, and assume the monster has twice th HD, it's still:

22(HD)+ (3?)Wisdom (on anything with 22HD probably less than 20) +modifier against fear (so, zero)=+25

vs

Cha(8-11) (Cha based caster/AoE fear monster) +14(ranks)+11(item)+3(skill feat)+??? still have plenty of class levels to search for boosts=+38

[CatharzGodfoot]

So, it's this class that's overpowered because it lets intimidate work against all of your foes rather than just the majority? Not the ton of extra effects you're using to intimidate 6 times per round, turn it into an AoE, and extend it forever?

[Kaelik]

So, it's this class that's overpowered because it lets intimidate work against all of your foes rather than just the majority? Not the ton of extra effects you're using to intimidate 6 times per round, turn it into an AoE, and extend it forever?

Yes, it's the class that gives the ability to bypass any possible immunity on a skill check based attack.

It's not the move or swift action or even free action intimidates, because having intimidate once a round as a free action at the cost of a Sphere ability or an armor ability or a high level class ability is merely useful, or thematic.

Just like giving a character Dominate Monster at will at level 11 isn't the problem it's a class that grants the ability to bypass Compulsion and Mind affecting immunities at level 1, and gives +40 to the DC.

Intimidate is balanced based on the fact that people are immune to it, and it lasts only one round so it can't really stack with itself (or at least not for more than one round). So you can't pour 100% of your actions and resources into it without sucking. That's why you don't hand out bullshit immunity breakers even at level 10 or 15, much less at level 1 that apply to stuff you get from other classes.

Yes, the part the feat that makes intimidate last forever is bad, almost as bad as granting blanket immunity penetration. But you still commit character resources to a tactic that does not have a 100% success rate, and is often not effectual. Which is better than just handing out an ability to break all possible defenses with no imaginable counter.

[CatharzGodfoot]

I'm fine with an ability that hands out a nigh-unresistable 1 round shaken condition as a standard action. I'm still OK with it as a swift, free (1/round), or attack (requiring a to-hit roll) action. Even though you could conceivably stack it up against one target. The fact that you can use a bunch of other sources optimize it into absurdity is interesting, but to me irrelevant.


As an aside, I don't think that fear immunity should exist. Since it's already a condition track, fear 'immunity' should simply be a type or resistance that downgrades fear. This means that getting 'immunity' from multiple sources is still relevant, and allows for a more interesting and flavorful gradation of terror. You can even still have immunity breakers.

[Josh_Kablack]

Heroic Profile: So long as your face uncovered,

Exhibit to the contrary

And on the subject, they are missing a key flavor ability:

They totally should be able to get teams of beasts to pull sleds and wagons without the need for any type of harness

[CatharzGodfoot]

Heroic Profile: So long as your face uncovered,

Exhibit to the contrary

That profile does not look heroic, and the enemies don't look like the charming sort.
[Edit] The heroic looking halflings do have their faces uncovered. [/Edit]

And on the subject, they are missing a key flavor ability: They totally should be able to get teams of beasts to pull sleds and wagons without the need for any type of harness

Damn', you're right! OK, I'll add it in--but it only applies to bears (and maybe big cats).

[Jilocasin]

Bear chariots are a lot cooler than bear cavalry any day.

[Kaelik]

I'm fine with an ability that hands out a nigh-unresistable 1 round shaken condition as a standard action. I'm still OK with it as a swift, free (1/round), or attack (requiring a to-hit roll) action. Even though you could conceivably stack it up against one target. The fact that you can use a bunch of other sources optimize it into absurdity is interesting, but to me irrelevant.


As an aside, I don't think that fear immunity should exist. Since it's already a condition track, fear 'immunity' should simply be a type or resistance that downgrades fear. This means that getting 'immunity' from multiple sources is still relevant, and allows for a more interesting and flavorful gradation of terror. You can even still have immunity breakers.

No you retard.

You don't get to pretend your level 1 class ability that specifically references a skill action in the core rules could never possibly interact with any other source.

If you want to give out a free action or standard action shaken that is irresistible, DO THAT! Lot's of people have wanted to do that at some time, and they fucking did it. They just said "You can give people -2 to X." And they didn't have to explicitly override immunities at level one so that it fucking would be applied to every other use of the skill.

Yes, it is your fucking fault when level 11 Wizards take a one level dip into your martial class that has the ability:

"Affect the Stupid (Ex): A Goddam Fighter can understand and manipulate anything, even the mindless. He can penetrate any mind affecting immunity or compulsion immunity. Any Compulsion affect he uses get's +40 I Hate Balance bonus to the DC of any saving throw it causes."

That's your fucking fault. It's your fault for giving out an immunity breaker.

I don't care if the only compulsion affect your stupid fighter has is a -2 penalty to some shit. You gave them an immunity breaker at level 1 that was specifically written to stack with anything else you can find.

It's fucking childs play to not write shittily like that, watch me take 30 seconds to write a better ability than your stupid ability:

"Intimidating Growl (Ex): Goddam Barbarians may, as a swift action, startle shit with a growl. They totally just straight up give it a -2 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks to one target within line of sight. It lasts for one round."

See how the potential for abuse is fucking zero?

See how it actually does exactly what is needed (IE helps the class without it dipping into other classes) without becoming a problem when combined with other abilities?

See how it is infinitely better than your stupid "You can break any immunity no matter what" bullshit that doesn't even help the character unless he goes hunting, because using a standard action to shaken for one round is a waste of shitty time, but giving other characters who don't take more than one level in your shitty class the ability to bypass immunities is fucking retarded.

In conclusion:

Tome of Fiends plays great with other shit, if you are capable of not writing like an idiot.

But you steadfastly refuse to admit that any of your material could ever be used with any other material ever, and you are retarded for doing so. And that is why anything you write will be fucking terrible in general.

[Kaelik]

What the fuck is mail server response code?

[Judging__Eagle]

Kaelik,

I dunno what that error is, but I do get some odd ones here when posting.

Ask about in the "about the den" section is my advice.

As an aside, I don't think that fear immunity should exist. Since it's already a condition track, fear 'immunity' should simply be a type or resistance that downgrades fear. This means that getting 'immunity' from multiple sources is still relevant, and allows for a more interesting and flavorful gradation of terror. You can even still have immunity breakers.

That's fine.

But it should only bypass passive immunities; not active ones.

If not, everyone who wears a helmet of "protection from fear", or "is a paladin" can basically be shat all over by evil growling Barbarians. Which is ass, and we both know it; Galahad should not be driven away in terror by a bunch of scary sounding [whatevers].

The Barbarian scaring away mindless skeletons is... fine, but it should be a different sort of mechanic. Something that is possibly seen in a movie or comic book, or story.

Like this

Destructive Fear (Su): Whenever a creature immune to morale effects views you defeat* a creature of its variety in a single round, or less, of combat; you may now treat said creatures as vulnerable to your morale based effects for 1 round per class level

*: Defeat does not necessarily mean kill by, the by.

This ability is lost if the Character multiclasses, unless they already have 4 levels in GD Barbarian; in which case they retain this ability. As an FYI, Prestige classes don't count as Multiclassing, only base classes ever count.

So, Conan smashing a skeleton in one round, makes the other ones look at each other, and comically scarper away, or the Merciless Metallone Minions of Ming run away in terror when Buck Rogers shoots one of them in the face, and it blows up right away.

[Koumei]

The Barbarian scaring away mindless skeletons is... fine, but it should be a different sort of mechanic. Something that is possibly seen in a movie or comic book, or story.

I hear such a power exists in some weird splatbook.