Math in board & card games.

[Cynic]

Based on my previous topic on a similar subject, I will be teaching a group of 6th - 8th graders Math and statistics over a course of 6-9 weeks (2 hours each weeks.) The idea is to challenge them to the best of their ability.

The list of games I have so far is Uno, Yahtzee, Phase 10, Flux, Munchkin,Phase 10. BS, Poker (?)

The basic idea I have is to show them probability and how it works in specific environments. So the specific circumstance is the 3 weeks after the 6 where they would be making the game.
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So, I have three questions.

1.) Suggestions for card/dice games that fit this profile.

2.) What kind of math does this age group know ?

3.) hints/links/whatever to help make a crib sheet that I can give the kids.

[Ancient History]

Yahtzee is probably your best bet - at one level it is very simple to demonstrate outcomes (what are the chances of rolling a 6 on this die? What are my chances of rolling a 6 with 5 dice? What are my chances of rolling a Yahtzee?) and you can get into some more advanced talk about strategy if all goes well (At what point should I hold three dice and roll two? Is it easier to get a full house or a straight?)

Cheat sheet.

If you're using a deck of cards, don't start out with poker - even if you explained to kids the value of the hands - start with something like Go Fish (probability game) or Bourré, which is essentially a counting game.

You might also consider The Stars Are Right.

[Zinegata]

Not Munchkin please. It doesn't really have nice overall probabilities like the other games and rapidly becomes a "screw you!" game.

Use it if you're teaching game theory maybe, but not math and probabilities.

[Josh_Kablack]

If you're using a deck of cards, don't start out with poker.

If you want to use an actual casino-type game, Blackjack is probably better. Using a single deck and 1 player and reshuflling after each hand the odds are pretty trivial. "how many of the card you want(or don't) are left in the deck" over how many "total cards are left in the deck". And then adding in a second player and their face down card provides an example of how the calculation stays the same even as hidden information complicates the game.

Alternately, Roulette provides a very easy to calculate example of The House Always Wins - which is the most important lesson to derive from studying the odds of casino games.

[Ravengm]

If you're using a deck of cards, don't start out with poker.

If you want to use an actual casino-type game, Blackjack is probably better. Using a single deck and 1 player and reshuflling after each hand the odds are pretty trivial. "how many of the card you want(or don't) are left in the deck" over how many "total cards are left in the deck". And then adding in a second player and their face down card provides an example of how the calculation stays the same even as hidden information complicates the game.

Agreed with Blackjack. It only uses four cards at a time (assuming just the dealer and one player) before you start calculating probabilities. That, and all the choice is in the hands of the player.

Poker is significantly more complicated and only gets worse when you add in betting and reading of other people. The game is as much being able to tell what other people will do as it is statistics.

[Ancient History]

Depends entirely on how you play. Professional poker is all about statistics. Bluffing is optional and not even remotely as important.

[Doom]

My vote is for yahtzee all the way, that game is just loaded with fun probability questions and calculations, which you can take from the basic level, to considering the second roll (i.e., conditional probability), to choosing which to roll for (i.e., expectations). I'm pretty sure you could blow a month on that one game, specifically.

Next up would be blackjack...poker's a real mess to address at the 6th grade level.

[Cynic]

The idea is also to use one card game a week. Yahtzee is one of my choices but apparently I need to use a different game each week.

[Cynic]

Another question is Game creation. The end of the 9 weeks culminates in a presentation. So this basically means we create a game.

Can you guys give me a few pointers on creating a game?

[fectin]

There's another "house always wins" game which you can let them feel clever for figuring out: bet on the numbers 1-6. Each pays off 3:1. Roll 2 dice. Pay off any numbers that come up, collect the rest. How does the house win? (answer: on doubles).

[fectin]

Pass the pigs might be worthwhile. You'd have to make up probabilities, but you can teach expected values with it then.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pass_the_Pigs

Also, shut the box:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shut_the_Box

And of course, backgammon.

[shadzar]

Another question is Game creation. The end of the 9 weeks culminates in a presentation. So this basically means we create a game.

Can you guys give me a few pointers on creating a game?

Think we did this in the AP type classes back during 1st or 2nd grade to make a game. This was before I had played D&D, but knew about Craps, so made a game that had 3d6 to give more of a range than craps and had written up the probabilities for them.

The age range you are speaking of for 6~8 should be able to do that kind of thing by now if education has improved any over the last 30 years.

Looking at Eurogames, american board games, CCG and RPG, it seems the easiest would be to MAKE a CCG or board game. some simple game like Chutes and Ladders might be too simple in design for that age range, so what is the goal of the game itself, just to work, be appealing to the players/makers?

if you want to go for cheaper game to make that making playing pieces for a board game, then a card game might be better. Look how many can be played with just a poker deck.

Odds are that age range also has played some CCG, so might want to make something like it themselves, but it should be something with a standard deck with probabilities being one of each card, and after drawn it is discarded and not used again to keep the math learning down to simplest probability.

[Neeeek]

Craps is generally the best probability instruction game there is, for beginners. Ignore everything but Pass/No Pass and Come/No Come, and you'll be fine.

[Zinegata]

Another question is Game creation. The end of the 9 weeks culminates in a presentation. So this basically means we create a game.

Can you guys give me a few pointers on creating a game?

It's mostly about rules-writing. You should require your students to write a set of rules, and then provide the components.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Craps can be a good game, with many examples of bets over a 2d6 RNG for students to get familiar with. Baccarat would be useful, showing the children the chart dealers learn so as to maintain the house advantage. I'm not sure I see the point of Uno, though.