3.5e Blasting

[Dominicius]

So I've been in touch with Roy recently and it got me thinking about blasting again and how to fix it (and we haven't had a thread about this issue in a while).

Currently we have the new metamagic rules that actually do a decent job at it, all things considering. So for example if we take a level one single target spell without CL caps a level 20 wizard can apply four empowers and get 60d6 dice worth of damage, which is 210 damage average assuming nothing else was used. Pretty impressive for a level one spell slot (10.5 damage per level).

Problem is, even if we were to forget about CL caps, as we go up blasting still becomes worse as you are less able to apply your MM. So how do we fix that without completely rewriting the blasting rules?


Here is the idea I have - add extra damage dice based on the size of the dice used in the original spell (lets call it Base Damage Die) and then tie the size of those dice to the level of the spell.

For instance, level one and two spells would deal an extra +1 damage per dice for 1d6 dice and lower. Every two spell levels the original dice size increase by one step and thus increase the extra damage as well. So the progression would be like this.

* 1st and 2nd - 1d6 and 1 extra damage
* 3rd and 4th - 1d8 and 2d2 extra damage
* 5th and 6th - 1d10 and 2d4 extra damage
* 7th and 8th - 1d12 and 2d6 extra damage
* 9th level spells get their own custom damage.

But this is the damage a single target spell would do. If we want a spell that deals damage to multiple targets we must reduce the BDD. For instance if a spell effects more than one target but less than 61 (assuming there are no 3d shenanigans and all targets take up one square) then reduce the BDD by one step. If it affects 61 targets but less than 200 then reduce the BDD by two steps. If the spell can affect 200 targets and more then reduce the BDD by three steps.
And two more rules:
If a spell only affects targets without a close proximity to the caster (20 feet or less) then increase the BDD by one step (this includes touch attacks).
A spell can still be a blasting spell if it has an extra effect provided that effect is separated from the damage by another roll (ex. a successful touch attack to deal the damage and a failed thrown to inflict effect). In this case simply reduce the BDD by one step.
And finally, this can only be applied to spells spells that take a standard action or full round action to cast (not counting quickened spells).

With this idea we are assuming that:
There is no way to stack MM on your spell via items (MM rods, spellshards, etc).
There is no MM reduction.
There is no CL cap on damage spells.

Of course, there is still the problem that it is more effective to MM the uneven number spell than an even number spell. Only solution I can think of right now is making the even number spells with the blasting tag count as one level lower for the purpose of applying MM.

So what do you you all think? I tried to take Frank's ideas into account about how a spell should either deal so much damage to single target that it pops or less damage but to multiple targets.

[CatharzGodfoot]

I think that when you're considering adding 1d2 damage, you should seriously consider adding a static damage boost instead.

[Dominicius]

I was actually just considering doing that. Changed it to +1.

[Josh_Kablack]

This seems both overly complicated and subject to the weird variations of spells that have nonstandard scaling like Scorching Ray, Acid Arrow, Searing Light and Rainbow Blast.

I don't think your idea works short of rewriting all the damage spells. And if you want to do that, great. But personally I'd rather go with a simpler answer, like:

• Accepting that evocation damage bites and tell those who want to blast to play Conjuration specialists instead.
  or
• Replacing wizards and sorcerers entirely with Tome classes like Fire Mage, Snowscaper and Warmage
  or
• Using an admittedly half-assed system of dropping evocation-only restricted metamagic rods in treasure parcels and making a couple of PrCs that added to evocation damages.

[RobbyPants]

I had a similar idea a few years ago where you'd add half the spell's level, round up, per die to the damage. It also added extra effects based on the damage type (catching fire, Str penalty, Dex penalty, etc). I never really tested it. At a glance, it still has some obvious holes.

So, Fireballs do 1d6+2 per level and catch the target on fire on a failed save, but I still don't think it's better than a Stinking Cloud.

I never really figured out how to get metamagics to work with this, either.

[Dominicius]

I actually ran down the numbers with this and it works fairly well with metamagic (except at even levels once again).

And I don't really care about spells that don't have standard scaling.

[Draco_Argentum]

You want to roll 30 dice to find the damage of a CL10 spell? Thats pretty insane.

[Dominicius]

I use computers for dice rolling nowadays but you can replace them with a flat bonus if you wish, just don't expect people to ever use maximize.

The main idea behind this system was to not fix each individual spell in the evocation line, but rather to provide a guideline for how much damage a blasting spell is supposed to do at each level within the confines of the current Tome MM rules. So if the formula itself hold up to scrutiny, I consider this task complete.

[RobbyPants]

I use computers for dice rolling nowadays but you can replace them with a flat bonus if you wish, just don't expect people to ever use maximize.

You could always have your cake and eat it too, and say that a +X bonus equates to a +Y bonus when Maximized. The number should be slightly less than double.

[Dominicius]

You could always have your cake and eat it too, and say that a +X bonus equates to a +Y bonus when Maximized. The number should be slightly less than double.

That makes... a lot sense.

[Psychic Robot]

not to be a bitch but are you fucking kidding me. rolling 2d2 for damage is retarded and then rolling more dice on top of something like 20d12 is ridiculous. just make it a flat bonus ffs