I've recently started playing 40k Chaos Demons, and they are consistently getting their asses kicked like blind Mormons in a butt-fucking contest. I have a Chaos Marines army which almost always dominates, so I don't think it's that I suck in general.
I've tried many different lists with a lot of different things - with/without icons, with/without lots of pink horros, with/without a greater demon. I play 1,000 pt games, and my Soul Grinder got destroyed so often as soon as it appeared that I've decided it's not worth it. I mostly play against Tyranids, but will soon face Guard and Grey Knights. Any advice on playing Chaos Demons? Thanks!
40k Chaos Demons advice needed
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40k Chaos Demons advice needed
Last edited by oochiwa1 on Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
Your Troops choices will be Horrors and/or Daemonettes. Most run with the former, those who think they'll need their scoring units to shred light vehicles pick the latter.
Elites: anything except Nurgle works reasonably well. I'm fond of Fiends of Slaanesh (Attacks: all of them) and Bloodcrushers of Khorne.
HQ: you might actually just want to take cheap heralds. Dunno, I suppose Greater Daemons are good, especially for anti-tank stuff.
Fast: Screamers (if you expect to fight tanks). Some say Hounds are good too.
Heavy: you only have one Heavy Support option, and that is the Daemon Prince.
Strategy: hope you don't get screwed by the "which half enters on turn 1" roll. Hope scatter and reserve rolls are in your favour. Remember that you can't assault on a DS so there's no point risking it by deploying close to enemies anyway. Due to Invulnerable and Eternal Warrior (also "most of the models only have 1 W anyway"), you're not actually threatened by meltas and las-cannons. It's shit that scores lots of hits (so, pie-plates and, to a lesser degree, blasts and flamer templates, along with shit like the Gatling Cannon (rarely taken), the Gatling Fex (almost never taken), Hurricane Bolters and 2xTwinDev Flyrants (a real risk)) that you need to look out for. Remember that even the little Troops still get their regular save against Monstrous Creatures in Close Combat, so it's okay to just do that. You can't out-swarm any dedicated swarm armies (Guard, Nids, Orks) though.
Elites: anything except Nurgle works reasonably well. I'm fond of Fiends of Slaanesh (Attacks: all of them) and Bloodcrushers of Khorne.
HQ: you might actually just want to take cheap heralds. Dunno, I suppose Greater Daemons are good, especially for anti-tank stuff.
Fast: Screamers (if you expect to fight tanks). Some say Hounds are good too.
Heavy: you only have one Heavy Support option, and that is the Daemon Prince.
Strategy: hope you don't get screwed by the "which half enters on turn 1" roll. Hope scatter and reserve rolls are in your favour. Remember that you can't assault on a DS so there's no point risking it by deploying close to enemies anyway. Due to Invulnerable and Eternal Warrior (also "most of the models only have 1 W anyway"), you're not actually threatened by meltas and las-cannons. It's shit that scores lots of hits (so, pie-plates and, to a lesser degree, blasts and flamer templates, along with shit like the Gatling Cannon (rarely taken), the Gatling Fex (almost never taken), Hurricane Bolters and 2xTwinDev Flyrants (a real risk)) that you need to look out for. Remember that even the little Troops still get their regular save against Monstrous Creatures in Close Combat, so it's okay to just do that. You can't out-swarm any dedicated swarm armies (Guard, Nids, Orks) though.
Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.
Thanks for the advice. It seems that shooting and rapidly moving troops are essential to the DS demons army. I have a lot of Nurgle stuff painted up, but as tough as they are, slow and purposeful troops that can't shoot just don't seem worth it compared to the other options. A Greater Demon of Nurgle, squad of Plaguebearers, and some Nurgling bases are basically wasted painted pieces. As the rules change, a lot of stuff ends up just not being worth it in new additions.
BTW I personally feel that in the new chaos marines codex, the following units simply aren't worth it at all - Dreadnoughts, Possessed, and Chaos Spawn. Unless I'm missing something obvious and other people have luck with them, it seems like a seperate game-creator was snorting paint chips off a dead hooker's ass when he decided to create troops that not only suck and aren't as good as other options in their categories, but just might attack the rest of your army as well. Am I missing something?
BTW I personally feel that in the new chaos marines codex, the following units simply aren't worth it at all - Dreadnoughts, Possessed, and Chaos Spawn. Unless I'm missing something obvious and other people have luck with them, it seems like a seperate game-creator was snorting paint chips off a dead hooker's ass when he decided to create troops that not only suck and aren't as good as other options in their categories, but just might attack the rest of your army as well. Am I missing something?
Answer: Sell them on eBay, because they are a 4th edition codex on 5th edition.
Ok, serious answer, a "semi-decent" Chaos Daemons list looks like this at 2k:
2000 Pts - Chaos Daemons Roster
HQ: Herald of Tzeentch (1#, 95 pts)
1 Herald of Tzeentch @ 95 pts (Bolt of Tzeentch; Chariot of Tzeentch)
HQ: Herald of Tzeentch (1#, 95 pts)
1 Herald of Tzeentch @ 95 pts (Bolt of Tzeentch; Chariot of Tzeentch)
HQ: Herald of Tzeentch (1#, 95 pts)
1 Herald of Tzeentch @ 95 pts (Bolt of Tzeentch; Chariot of Tzeentch)
HQ: Herald of Tzeentch (1#, 95 pts)
1 Herald of Tzeentch @ 95 pts (Bolt of Tzeentch; Chariot of Tzeentch)
Elite: Fiends of Slaanesh (6#, 180 pts)
6 Fiends of Slaanesh @ 180 pts
Elite: Fiends of Slaanesh (6#, 180 pts)
6 Fiends of Slaanesh @ 180 pts
Elite: Fiends of Slaanesh (6#, 180 pts)
6 Fiends of Slaanesh @ 180 pts
Troops: Bloodletters of Khorne (10#, 160 pts)
10 Bloodletters of Khorne @ 160 pts
Troops: Bloodletters of Khorne (10#, 160 pts)
10 Bloodletters of Khorne @ 160 pts
Troops: Plaguebearers of Nurgle (5#, 75 pts)
5 Plaguebearers of Nurgle @ 75 pts
Troops: Plaguebearers of Nurgle (5#, 75 pts)
5 Plaguebearers of Nurgle @ 75 pts
Fast Attack: Flesh Hounds of Khorne (10#, 185 pts)
9 Flesh Hounds of Khorne @ 185 pts
1 Karanak, Hound of Vengeance
Heavy Support: Daemon Prince of Chaos (1#, 140 pts)
1 Daemon Prince of Chaos @ 140 pts (Mark of Tzeentch; Bolt of Tzeentch)
Heavy Support: Daemon Prince of Chaos (1#, 140 pts)
1 Daemon Prince of Chaos @ 140 pts (Mark of Tzeentch; Bolt of Tzeentch)
Heavy Support: Daemon Prince of Chaos (1#, 140 pts)
1 Daemon Prince of Chaos @ 140 pts (Mark of Tzeentch; Bolt of Tzeentch)
Let's see:
Tzeench Heralds + Daemon Princes are there to knock out tanks. Fiends are for some extra help on the above with massed Rending Attacks and the fact that they can reach the mech gunline fast. Bloodletters + Flesh hounds are there to give you some extra CC capability since you don't have vehicles to hide behind, Plaguebearers are there to hold objectives.
For 1k, I would go for 1 Herald, 2 Daemon Princes, 2 Fiend Squads and 2 Plaguebearer squads. 905 pts on the dot, so do w/e.
Ok, serious answer, a "semi-decent" Chaos Daemons list looks like this at 2k:
2000 Pts - Chaos Daemons Roster
HQ: Herald of Tzeentch (1#, 95 pts)
1 Herald of Tzeentch @ 95 pts (Bolt of Tzeentch; Chariot of Tzeentch)
HQ: Herald of Tzeentch (1#, 95 pts)
1 Herald of Tzeentch @ 95 pts (Bolt of Tzeentch; Chariot of Tzeentch)
HQ: Herald of Tzeentch (1#, 95 pts)
1 Herald of Tzeentch @ 95 pts (Bolt of Tzeentch; Chariot of Tzeentch)
HQ: Herald of Tzeentch (1#, 95 pts)
1 Herald of Tzeentch @ 95 pts (Bolt of Tzeentch; Chariot of Tzeentch)
Elite: Fiends of Slaanesh (6#, 180 pts)
6 Fiends of Slaanesh @ 180 pts
Elite: Fiends of Slaanesh (6#, 180 pts)
6 Fiends of Slaanesh @ 180 pts
Elite: Fiends of Slaanesh (6#, 180 pts)
6 Fiends of Slaanesh @ 180 pts
Troops: Bloodletters of Khorne (10#, 160 pts)
10 Bloodletters of Khorne @ 160 pts
Troops: Bloodletters of Khorne (10#, 160 pts)
10 Bloodletters of Khorne @ 160 pts
Troops: Plaguebearers of Nurgle (5#, 75 pts)
5 Plaguebearers of Nurgle @ 75 pts
Troops: Plaguebearers of Nurgle (5#, 75 pts)
5 Plaguebearers of Nurgle @ 75 pts
Fast Attack: Flesh Hounds of Khorne (10#, 185 pts)
9 Flesh Hounds of Khorne @ 185 pts
1 Karanak, Hound of Vengeance
Heavy Support: Daemon Prince of Chaos (1#, 140 pts)
1 Daemon Prince of Chaos @ 140 pts (Mark of Tzeentch; Bolt of Tzeentch)
Heavy Support: Daemon Prince of Chaos (1#, 140 pts)
1 Daemon Prince of Chaos @ 140 pts (Mark of Tzeentch; Bolt of Tzeentch)
Heavy Support: Daemon Prince of Chaos (1#, 140 pts)
1 Daemon Prince of Chaos @ 140 pts (Mark of Tzeentch; Bolt of Tzeentch)
Let's see:
Tzeench Heralds + Daemon Princes are there to knock out tanks. Fiends are for some extra help on the above with massed Rending Attacks and the fact that they can reach the mech gunline fast. Bloodletters + Flesh hounds are there to give you some extra CC capability since you don't have vehicles to hide behind, Plaguebearers are there to hold objectives.
For 1k, I would go for 1 Herald, 2 Daemon Princes, 2 Fiend Squads and 2 Plaguebearer squads. 905 pts on the dot, so do w/e.
Nope - that's how Games Workshop do all their design work.oochiwa1 wrote:...a seperate game-creator was snorting paint chips off a dead hooker's ass ... Am I missing something?
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The Greater Daemon could possibly be used as a Daemon Prince - and the DP only gets the +1 T, not SbP (or FnP, sadly - then again, it's rare a DP is hit by a weapon that FnP applies against).oochiwa1 wrote:A Greater Demon of Nurgle, squad of Plaguebearers, and some Nurgling bases are basically wasted painted pieces.
Sadly true.As the rules change, a lot of stuff ends up just not being worth it in new additions.
It occurs to me: if your opponent allows Forgeworld stuff, the Blight Drones of Nurgle are an awesome Fast Attack choice. Not broken, they just bring something much-needed to Daemons (Fast Skimmers - with versatile weaponry too). They can also be taken by Chaos Marines who have at least 1 unit of Plague Marines (ie all Chaos Marine armies now that you can't field special Alpha Legion/Word Bearers/Iron Lords/Raptor Cults).
Correct. In current Chaos Marines, your options are:BTW I personally feel that in the new chaos marines codex, the following units simply aren't worth it at all - Dreadnoughts, Possessed, and Chaos Spawn.
HQ: any work, really, but most suggest DAEMON PRINCE DAEMON PRINCE
Elite: Terminators, Chosen (5 Meltas in a unit of 5? Sign me up!)
Troops: Regular (cheap), Plague Marines (resilient)
Fast: I am fond of Nurgle-Marked Bikers, because that's Toughness six
Heavy: No Havocs, No Tanks, No Defilers, Obliterators Only, FINAL DESTINATION
(Some are okay with Land Raiders, I find Defilers to be pretty useful, but at the end of the day, Obliterators are really good).
No, that is an accurate assessment.it seems like a seperate game-creator was snorting paint chips off a dead hooker's ass when he decided to create troops that not only suck and aren't as good as other options in their categories, but just might attack the rest of your army as well. Am I missing something?
Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.
Everyone's advice seems solid, though there's conflicting ideas about troops choices...I wanted to be able to actually use some of my old models but still have an army that is decently mobile and has good firepower, since it's a DS army.
First, I went to dig up all of my old models and see what I had around. Then, I realized I'm a grown man who uses painted models to play wargames. Then, I had an epiphany I AM that guy from the 40 Year-Old Virgin. Then, I found myself crying in a corner of the bathroom looking at the lingerie section of a Sears catalogue. Finally, I regrouped and prepared for battle!!!
Here's the list I came up with for a 1,000 pt game:
Herald of Tzeentch
(chariot, DG, Bolt of T)
5 Pink Horrors X 3 (+1 Changeling)
(Bolt of T)
6 Plaguebearers
4 Nurgling swarms
5 Fiends X 2
Demon Prince of Tzeentch
(Bolt of T)
I'm hoping I have enough daunting firepower, and that the mobile Fiends can help assist any shooting unit in trouble. The Nurgle units should be able to hold an objective between them. If the Nurglings actually survive the game AND kill something, I will pee on the battlefield. I will pull my pants down, whip my junk out, tell my friend it's not gay as long as he's thinking of a woman (or not watching me, I guess), and then pee on the battlefield.
First, I went to dig up all of my old models and see what I had around. Then, I realized I'm a grown man who uses painted models to play wargames. Then, I had an epiphany I AM that guy from the 40 Year-Old Virgin. Then, I found myself crying in a corner of the bathroom looking at the lingerie section of a Sears catalogue. Finally, I regrouped and prepared for battle!!!
Here's the list I came up with for a 1,000 pt game:
Herald of Tzeentch
(chariot, DG, Bolt of T)
5 Pink Horrors X 3 (+1 Changeling)
(Bolt of T)
6 Plaguebearers
4 Nurgling swarms
5 Fiends X 2
Demon Prince of Tzeentch
(Bolt of T)
I'm hoping I have enough daunting firepower, and that the mobile Fiends can help assist any shooting unit in trouble. The Nurgle units should be able to hold an objective between them. If the Nurglings actually survive the game AND kill something, I will pee on the battlefield. I will pull my pants down, whip my junk out, tell my friend it's not gay as long as he's thinking of a woman (or not watching me, I guess), and then pee on the battlefield.
Forgeworld is an auxiliary company that Games Workshop licenses for resin models and the Imperial Armor series, which are campaign settings and model rules that, well, are so broken that make the GW design team look good.
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/
The resin kits are cool, I'll give them that.
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/
The resin kits are cool, I'll give them that.
Not in most cases. Note that the Flyers, Gargantuan Creatures and Super-Heavies are all Apocalypse-only, and in Apocalypse, it starts at batshit-crazy.Gx1080 wrote:are so broken that make the GW design team look good.
Other than that, the Space Marine Siege list and the Imperial Guard "LMR tanks as HQ and Troops, plz!" list are broken, and then there are just a few individual models:
[*]Land Raider Achilles (see: no Achilles heel. FUCKING MAGNETS)
[*]Caestus Assault Ram (FUCKING MAGNETS)
[*]Lucius Drop Pod (Dreadnought + Safe DS + Assault on the DS)
[*]Hades Breaching Drills (they will pierce the heavens, yes)
And maybe a couple of other things. But those are seriously the main offenders.
Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.
The Forge World models look unreal. I'm an old-school 40k gamer who used to roll a d1000 for chaos attributes for my squads back in the days of Slaves to Darkness and Lost and the Damned chaos rulebooks. Back when I could have wyverns and trolls fighting alongside my Chaos Marine Devastator units with jump packs...The Chaos Renegade stuff looked like something I'd like, but I'm not going to dish out the money for models.
Well, my battlefield is soaked in urine, since my Nurglings tied up a Termagaunt unit long enough to keep them from taking an objective. I won by one point, though I lost all but four models in the game. A "win." At the beginning of the game, two units of Horrors and the Demon Prince fired 34 shots at seven Genestealers who were in cover. Nobody was hurt. The counter-attack killed two of my units.
Well, my battlefield is soaked in urine, since my Nurglings tied up a Termagaunt unit long enough to keep them from taking an objective. I won by one point, though I lost all but four models in the game. A "win." At the beginning of the game, two units of Horrors and the Demon Prince fired 34 shots at seven Genestealers who were in cover. Nobody was hurt. The counter-attack killed two of my units.