What are the best gimmicks/keywords in MTG?

OgreBattle · Post by **OgreBattle** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:45 pm

Those special rules that show up in a single MTG block then largely disappear:

Echo, rampage, kicker, banding, exalt, splice, persist, landfall, devotion, undying, phasing, that sort of thing

Which ones do you think were the most interesting, or which ones sucked ass but could be improved on? If you could put all of the 'gimmicks' you like in a single block, which ones would you pick?

Conceptually I like banding as it represents your tiny men forming an army together to go kill big monsters, but it's explanation text is really wordy and there's a chance someone interprets something wrong about it in any given game.

A good 'replacement' for Banding was in the stronghold set where the en-Kor cards had abilities like:

"The next 1 damage that would be dealt to [this creature] this turn is dealt to target creature you control instead."
"The next time a source of your choice would deal damage to target creature this turn, that damage is dealt to [this creature] instead."
So your sneaky scout banding guy would have that "others take damage for him" power while your shield wall banding guys have the "takes damage for others" power.

name_here · Post by **name_here** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:47 pm

I was pretty fond of splice and morph. Also, I don't know if these got carried on or not, but I liked convoke and radiance from Ravnica.

Ravengm · Post by **Ravengm** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 5:02 pm

Arcane was one of, if not the most, parasitic keywords ever. But I still love to entertain the idea that Splice can make a return if it isn't linked to Arcane at all. "Splice on to Instant/Sorcery" would be a pretty cool mechanic.

I'm also a huge fan of Rebound, and Consuming Vapors is one of my most favorite cards ever.

Basically, I like keywords that get you extra Value (tm) out of spells.

NineInchNall · Post by **NineInchNall** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 5:02 pm

I'm a combo/control player, so undying and persist struck me as bullshit. Unless you're going to give people a ton of exile effects, those two turn spell-based creature removal into a two-for-one. I know MaRo thinks people who play creatureless decks are having badwrongfun, but seriously.

Speaking of bullshit that MaRo loves: infect. Poison counters are apparently MaRo's favorite mechanic. Because healing the damage his creatures do is being a meanyface poopyhead. As is countering spells. Like ever. If you counter someone's spell, then you're a bad person who should feel bad.

Split-second should never have been printed. People love to talk about the importance of interactivity, and split-second's raison d'etre is to prevent interaction. There's no way to salvage it, and there're very few ways to deal with it (all blue, and all niche).

Now, onto the mechanics I think are fun:

Countermagic. All of it.
Cascade - horrifically overpowered, but hilarious.
Annihilator
Handcycling, like Timetwister, Wheel of Fortune, and Molten Psyche.
Flash. I want to make an EDH deck where everything is either an instant or has flash, just for laughs. Would I be able to resist the temptation to throw in Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir?
"play the top card of your library" effects, like Future Sight.
Countermagic
Landfall. It rewards you for something you were going to do anyway. That's indescribably awesome.
Level up
Cycling
Retrace
Rebound
Overload
Countermagic

Josh_Kablack · Post by **Josh_Kablack** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 5:32 pm

Rampage was largely uselessness.

Banding is better represented by the En-Kor damage redirection text.

Bands with Other Legends is probably the stupidest keywording MtG ever did.

Trample is better represented by "may deal damage as though it was not blocked"

I liked Kicker, Threshold and Cycling -- as they were all effects that changed a given card's cost and valuation during the progress of the game.

Echo was meh.

Buyback was way cool in concept, but in practice rendered too many deck types obsolete. It was basically a "you must be playing a srs tournament style deck against this. Screw your theme decks and casual play"

Shadow was thematic, but kinda stupid overall.

Phasing was thematic, but horribly undermined by bad designers who didn't realize just how bad a condition it was.

and after that was when I stopped playing, so I can't comment.

RadiantPhoenix · Post by **RadiantPhoenix** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 5:46 pm

I like mechanics that give me card advantage or virtual card advantage (which probably classifies me as a Spike (the player, not the creature type))

Bestow
Monstrosity
Indestructible
Buyback
Flashback
Hexproof/Shroud/protection
Annihilator
Cycling-with-effect
Forecast
Kicker for multiple effects
Persist/undying
Soulshift if I had a bunch of good creatures to go with it
Recover and Rebound sound good, but I haven't used them IIRC

I also like Wither/Infect when I use it, but not when other people use it.

Vigilance is also something I like, as is evasion.

EDIT: Bizarrely, I don't like Unearth. It's probably because I play Karador in EDH.

Mistborn · Post by **Mistborn** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 6:21 pm

Storm is the hands down the strongest mechanic, also a personal favorite of mine.

fectin · Post by **fectin** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:47 pm

I liked alternate victory/loss conditions. The great thing about Poison wasn't that you couldn't heal it, it was that you were forcing people to play a different game. Same with milling and stasis, really.

NineInchNall · Post by **NineInchNall** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:14 pm

Stasis doesn't force people to play a different game - it stops people from playing the game. (I used to run a casual stasis deck, which got super-duper silly once I jammed Jace, the Wallet Sculptor into it.)

But yeah, alternate wincons are fun. My Niv-Mizzet EDH deck used to have Laboratory Maniac just because.

Mistborn · Post by **Mistborn** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:43 pm

fectin wrote:I liked alternate victory/loss conditions. The great thing about Poison wasn't that you couldn't heal it, it was that you were forcing people to play a different game. Same with milling and stasis, really.

I don't see how poison is a different game, it's basically the same game only they need to do 10 damage instead of 20.

Also NiN casual stasis, do you hate fun or something.

fectin · Post by **fectin** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:09 pm

It's a different damage track, and doesn't interact with normal health (except via leeches). Normally, for example, you might rely on life gain to counter damage; that's not a viable option for poison.

MtG's support for alternate victory conditions really isn't great though.

RadiantPhoenix · Post by **RadiantPhoenix** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:21 pm

fectin wrote:MtG's support for alternate victory conditions really isn't great though.

There are many roads, but they basically all lead to Rome?

Mistborn · Post by **Mistborn** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:32 pm

RadiantPhoenix wrote:
fectin wrote:MtG's support for alternate victory conditions really isn't great though.
There are many roads, but they basically all lead to Rome?

While there's poison, milling, and a dozen diferent obscure cards that win the game conditionally those cards rarely see play. (though lot's of degenerate EDH decks have Laboratory Maniac as their win condition)

Pretty much all the competitive decks plan on reducing their opponents life total to 0 be that by playing dudes and turning the the sideways making 20 copies of grapeshot and sending them to the dome, or making infinite dudes (then turning them sideways).

fectin · Post by **fectin** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:22 pm

Pretty much. Compare with L5R, where there is (or was) a constant arms race between strategies that crushing their opponents and strategies that peg the "I win!" honor counter.
There were also genuine-threat enlightenment victory decks out there at various points, as well as dishonor loss decks.

Midnight_v · Post by **Midnight_v** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:48 pm

I'm a combo/control player, so undying and persist struck me as bullshit.

As the opposite style player... people who aren't playing combo/combo control, aren't really allowed to draw cards. So they have to find alternate ways of generating card advantage. Its only right. I mean otherwise they basically fail the same game test.

So.
Split-second
Cascade
Persist
Scry
Undying.
Double Strike
Hexproof (Which I tend to hate playing against but if not then aura enchantmets are inherently card advantatge hosers.)
Bestow
Flash
Morph
Regenerate
Indestructible
Haste

187 creatures don't get a key word but "when this enters the battlefield" is a thing they do everyset.

also... "When this leaves play" the thragtusk power doesn't have a name but it was an awesome creature last season.

I started out hating it because it gained 5 life and left a token when it left play, then I realized it was a creature that was awesome because it excerpted pressure equally vs all decks.

I enjoy seeing an environment where most strategies are viable, and I understand that some strategies have to be toned down to do that.

My favorite ever was "Sped red" that played like small red guys and land D, I miss that deck but I know how yeah Maro is like "Thats badwrongfun M_v" shrug. Thankfully magic is always changing each season.

AndreiChekov · Post by **AndreiChekov** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:07 am

This may cause unfathomable hatred for me, but I really like Sweep.
I usually play casual stuff, and when landfall came out, I immediately pulled out my Saviors of Kamigawa cards.

Other than that...
Flanking
Persist
Cycling
Channel (a bit like cycling, but the idea of a creature turning into a sorcery when you don't want a creature is pretty damn cool)
Flash

My EDH deck was a Counter Flash deck with Teferi for a general. Never played a thing on my turn. Really pwerful 1v1, but weak as hell multiplayer.
Now I use Bruna Light of Alabaster and mil myself for enchantments.

And storm was broken. Hate that mechanic.

Surgo · Post by **Surgo** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 2:17 am

Split-second should never have been printed. People love to talk about the importance of interactivity, and split-second's raison d'etre is to prevent interaction. There's no way to salvage it, and there're very few ways to deal with it (all blue, and all niche).

Yeah because infinites are soooooo interactive.

Mistborn · Post by **Mistborn** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 2:50 am

NineInchNall wrote:I'm a combo/control player, so undying and persist struck me as bullshit. Unless you're going to give people a ton of exile effects, those two turn spell-based creature removal into a two-for-one. I know MaRo thinks people who play creatureless decks are having badwrongfun, but seriously.

Split-second should never have been printed. People love to talk about the importance of interactivity, and split-second's raison d'etre is to prevent interaction. There's no way to salvage it, and there're very few ways to deal with it (all blue, and all niche).

Honestly something has to the control decks honest, that means having threats that a resilient to at least some of the control decks answers. Even control decks are supposed to have bad machups,

shadzar · Post by **shadzar** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:47 am

Josh_Kablack wrote:Buyback was way cool in concept, but in practice rendered too many deck types obsolete. It was basically a "you must be playing a srs tournament style deck against this. Screw your theme decks and casual play"

Not really, the only problem with it was in its infancy when there was no counters due to type 2 or whatever it is called now. but that is the problem, this gimmicks are made around the idea of buy more to be able to play type 2, and not even bother playing casual play.

a capsize deck with whispers and academy is meant to screw with anything, that is the point. the problem is not the gimmicks, just that everyone is always in tournament mode like they will be the next to appear on ESPN at the world's championship.

Sharazad should be considered a gimmick in and of itself. is unglued or the other set even considered in these gimmicks?

How about ante? That was a gimmick fun until it was considered gambling by idiot lawyers, while store sell "grab bags" all the time and it is not considered gambling, randon packaging of minis is not considered gambling, etc...

JonSetanta · Post by **JonSetanta** » Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:08 pm

Deathtouch just might be my favorite.
It's the true equalizer in creature to creature combat. A 1/1 can take down something of any toughness.

As for a complete list download Magic Set Editor and look up the keyword section. It's all there.

NineInchNall · Post by **NineInchNall** » Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:29 pm

Lord Mistborn wrote:Honestly something has to the control decks honest, that means having threats that a resilient to at least some of the control decks answers. Even control decks are supposed to have bad machups,

Most split second cards are actually control effects. Of the 15 cards with the keyword, there are 3 creatures, one combat trick, and one combo card; the rest are controlly removal/steal/counter shit. Only two of those represent anything like a "threat": Quagnoth and Stonewood Invocation. And that's only because of shroud.

The vast majority of split second cards are things that control decks run to get by responses - even non-counterspell responses. Example: In a 4-player game the other day, my friend was playing his Krenko deck and was threatening to go infinite with goblin tokens. I had a Treachery in hand, so I could steal Krenko for basically free. However, he also had a Skirk Prospector in play, so he could just sac whatever I targeted, leave me without mana, and go infinite on his next turn. If I had had Take Possession instead of Treachery, he wouldn't have been able to use his sac outlet - or anything at all - in response.

Split second isn't about fucking over control decks. Hexproof, indestructible, can't be countered, undying, persist, and protection serve that purpose. Split second is about making control more effective by making it less interactive.

MisterDee · Post by **MisterDee** » Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:00 pm

I liked wither - the idea of giving some value beyond chumping to weenies was an interesting paradigm shift.

I wouldn't want it as the norm for creature combat, but it was a nice niche mechanic.

As to counterspell - while I don't hate the concept, I dislike how prevalent it is as a mechanic. Especially the "counter anything for 1UU at common" spells that's been a staple of every format since basically forever, usually coupled with a common, instant three-mana card draw spell.

It's not utterly OP, but it is something that would be nice to be shelved for a block or two just for freshness purposes.

RadiantPhoenix · Post by **RadiantPhoenix** » Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:58 pm

MisterDee wrote:As to counterspell - while I don't hate the concept, I dislike how prevalent it is as a mechanic. Especially the "counter anything for 1UU at common" spells that's been a staple of every format since basically forever, usually coupled with a common, instant three-mana card draw spell.

It's not utterly OP, but it is something that would be nice to be shelved for a block or two just for freshness purposes.

Wow, you mean you weren't around for "counter anything for UU at common"?