Saving the world at 1st level, and other things I want.

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NativeJovian
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Post by NativeJovian »

I can think of a few ways to have a satisfying experience that starts with you saving the world at level 1 and goes from there.

If the PCs start out as janitor-slaves in Sauron's Mount Doom fortress, they can seriously just steal the One Ring and fling it into the Cracks of Doom while Sauron is out conquering Gondor. The remainder of the campaign involves getting the hell out of Mordor while avoiding the orc garrisons left behind, and the final boss battle is probably against the Witch King leading an assault against Rivendell. They start out by just being in the right place in the right time, and the rest of the campaign deals with the fallout of that.

Alternatively, the PCs receive the seven mystical dragon balls from the great dragon, and use its power to wipe the world-ending threat from existence. However, because they only grant a wish once a year, the PCs have to spend the rest of the campaign protecting them from other, lesser threats, until their power returns. The PCs are Chosen By Destiny to save the world, but their immortal patron can only help them so much.

If that doesn't appeal to you, then you can have your PCs gain the ability to seal/banish the Big Bad himself, freeing them (and/or their allies) to deal with his unholy army the old-fashioned way. By the time that's taken care of, the Big Bad breaks out/returns and you have to actually fight him to the death (which, depending on how long the campaign has gone on, can be a classic final boss fight, or a curbstomp where the PCs have gained so much power cleaning things up that the Big Bad doesn't stand a chance).

Sure, all of those methods rely on macguffins falling into the hands of the PCs at low level, but if you expect low-level characters (who are by definition relatively powerless) to successfully end a world-threatening power, they need something to balance the scales. The trick is to find a way to keep them from using that as an "I win" button for the rest of the campaign, and find a way to lower the threat down to something level-appropriate (which is honestly pretty easy when your starting point is "saving the world" -- that's the biggest threat taken care of right there), and then ratchet it up as the PCs gain in power. Which is certainly doable, if you're willing to chuck the standard MMO-style "kill 10 rats" -> "deliver this package" -> "defend this fort" -> "destroy this army" -> "kill this elder demon" quest progression.
Last edited by NativeJovian on Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
K
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Post by K »

You do understand that "level-appropriate" is as much of a contrivance as anything else? I mean, there is a reason the heroes don't run into an elder dragon on their first dungeon crawl when non-magic chain mail is totally hardcore.

That being said, there is no reason for the "world" to not be in peril every week and have the heroes solving problems that they can handle and have those be enough to "win". Sure, at 1st level you run around Scooby Do-style avoiding Ringwraiths until you can toss a magic gizmo into a hole, and at 20th level you curb-stomp the Dark Lord with a sword forged of living fire, but the essential balance of RPGs is that the DM will never give you a challenge you can't handle.

Ps. Star Trek was constantly referencing tech they "invented" in previous episodes. For example, remember "multi-phasic shields" that were the brainchild of a Ferrengi scientist and got him killed, and then got used in a later episode to fly close to a sun and destroy a rogue Borg ship? I haven't watched an episode in like five years and I still remember that crap.

Heck, Voyager had a whole multi-year subplot where they made a shuttle out of crazy tech they gained during adventures and constantly had adventures based on it.
Last edited by K on Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
PhoneLobster
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Post by PhoneLobster »

NativeJovian wrote:but if you expect low-level characters (who are by definition relatively powerless) to successfully end a world-threatening power, they need something to balance the scales.
But even a world threatening power can be relatively powerless.

The guy or the village with the brain eating zombie undead disease is a threat to civilization as you know it. But low level characters can beat them up. And if they are the guys who arrive on the scene before the zombie plague reaches the tipping point of unstoppable numbers or gets some of its vectors into a major city then they are the ones who have to do the work.

And monsters don't even have to stay the same power. You can actually have the terrible dreaded mega devil of doom have a larval stage. And if he grows up he will totally destroy the world, or at least require superman's attention to stop him. But in larval form he's just another guy for you to beat up, you just need to get there quick...

And hell if there ARE super plot gizmos around why should the PCs be the only ones with them. Maybe instead of the PCs having a save the world gizmo bob the mildly myopic pyromaniac has gotten hold of a burn the world gizmo, and the party has to stop HIM getting it to mount doom.
Last edited by PhoneLobster on Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RandomCasualty2
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Post by RandomCasualty2 »

K wrote: Ps. Star Trek was constantly referencing tech they "invented" in previous episodes. For example, remember "multi-phasic shields" that were the brainchild of a Ferrengi scientist and got him killed, and then got used in a later episode to fly close to a sun and destroy a rogue Borg ship? I haven't watched an episode in like five years and I still remember that crap.

Heck, Voyager had a whole multi-year subplot where they made a shuttle out of crazy tech they gained during adventures and constantly had adventures based on it.
Well even if you claim this, this is still more magic items than leveling up. I mean really, in TNG, did Picard grow much skill wise? How about Jordi or Janeway?
RandomCasualty2
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Post by RandomCasualty2 »

PhoneLobster wrote:
NativeJovian wrote:but if you expect low-level characters (who are by definition relatively powerless) to successfully end a world-threatening power, they need something to balance the scales.
But even a world threatening power can be relatively powerless.

The guy or the village with the brain eating zombie undead disease is a threat to civilization as you know it. But low level characters can beat them up. And if they are the guys who arrive on the scene before the zombie plague reaches the tipping point of unstoppable numbers or gets some of its vectors into a major city then they are the ones who have to do the work.

And monsters don't even have to stay the same power. You can actually have the terrible dreaded mega devil of doom have a larval stage. And if he grows up he will totally destroy the world, or at least require superman's attention to stop him. But in larval form he's just another guy for you to beat up, you just need to get there quick...
Only none of these things are actually in the rules. A zombie plague is basically not even a problem for someone high level, no matter how many zombies get created. These guys cleave through armies. Not really going to be a problem to dispatch 10,000 or even 100,000 zombies.
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angelfromanotherpin
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Post by angelfromanotherpin »

RandomCasualty2 wrote:I mean really, in TNG, did Picard grow much skill wise? How about Jordi or Janeway?
Sure. I mean, they were mostly retcons; but Picard was not a pilot, or a rider, or an archaeologist, or a musician when the series began; and he was all of those things by the time it ended.
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tzor
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Post by tzor »

RandomCasualty2 wrote:Well even if you claim this, this is still more magic items than leveling up. I mean really, in TNG, did Picard grow much skill wise? How about Jordi or Janeway?
First and foremost, ST is not a role playing game; even if it was it would be more towards the sci-fi genre than fantasy. There is always a flexible border between “me” and “my stuff.” In classic fantasy role playing games one tends to put the level on the “me” and in classic sci-fi role playing games one tends to put the level on “my stuff.” (Personal leveling is more linear and based on skills.)

Having said that (and remember always ignore TOS because the characters and the technology never advanced in the old series, any MacGuffin used in an episode was quickly forgotten in the next; not having the episodes be able to run in a guaranteed order was another reason for this) there is considerable differences in the skill sets of all the characters from the start of the series to the end of the series.

Still this process is linear (as opposed to the non linear fantasy model) because sci-fi places “realism” on personal growth and puts the “fantastic” on the technology underneath the characters. Fantasy puts the “fantastic” on both the person and the equipment. This makes the growth harder to observe and measure.
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