I've started the year with some bad news professionally. So I'm just writing some of my gaming thoughts down here to take my mind off of other things.
The world of Dragonmech makes no sense. The world is presented as a normal D&D world prior to the Lunar invasion. After the Lunar invasion started, giant mechs became the tools that allowed civilizations to survive and fight Lunar monstrosities.
Obviously, this is retarded because mechs are just warrior classes with more HD and more damage--things that are completely useless against real monsters. Furthermore, if the world was truly a D&D world, then the spell slingers should suffice in kicking lunar dragon butt. New technology would not needed, nevermind mechs.
Since the Dragonmech world was created because people want to play with giant metal robots, the world needs to be modified so that it makes sense to have humanoid races build and operate giant metal robots against ugly dragons from the moon. And here are my thoughts on what the changes should be.
Prior to the Lunar invasion, the Dragonmech world is populated by humanoids who are level capped to level 6. Spellcasters can't cast anything more powerful than 3rd level spells. Terrestrial monsters more powerful than CR 6 rarely exist, and they're not that more powerful than CR 6.
The Lunar invasion introduced more powerful monsters that threaten the land. The different races had to come up with something completely new to deal with the threat. Conceptually, this means new rules and mechanics are invented. Since this is Dragonmech and we all want mechs, these rules allow the construction of mechs that are of appropriate power to opposition more powerful than CR 6. Effects that are equivalent or similar to spells or abilities of characters above level 6 in normal D&D can only be incorporated into mechs.
How's this for a new start for the setting? Now, we just need to design and flesh out what these new rules are and how they pertain to mechs. For example, the elves might have developed semi-permanent spells that animates trees and vines into Huge size or larger mechs from which they can cast more powerful spells, and etc.
Dragonmech: Reconceptualization
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CatharzGodfoot
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You don't need a lunar invasion as an excuse to run around with mechs in D&D land. They're pretty obviously what Frank likes to call "asymmetric power", so if they can be made then wizards are making them.
But, yeah, 6th level is a decent cutoff point if you don't want to deal with force shields and heat seeking nuclear missiles. I would like to have heat seeking nuclear missiles if there are going to be mechs anyway. Ever read The Iron Dragon's Daughter? It's a great book by Michael Swanwick, featuring dragons which are basically evil, sapient, human-piloted (cancer causing to elves) jet mechs. Now that is a motherfucking dragonmech!
But, yeah, 6th level is a decent cutoff point if you don't want to deal with force shields and heat seeking nuclear missiles. I would like to have heat seeking nuclear missiles if there are going to be mechs anyway. Ever read The Iron Dragon's Daughter? It's a great book by Michael Swanwick, featuring dragons which are basically evil, sapient, human-piloted (cancer causing to elves) jet mechs. Now that is a motherfucking dragonmech!
The law in its majestic equality forbids the rich as well as the poor from stealing bread, begging and sleeping under bridges.
-Anatole France
Mount Flamethrower on rear
Drive in reverse
Win Game.
-Josh Kablack
-Anatole France
Mount Flamethrower on rear
Drive in reverse
Win Game.
-Josh Kablack
I don't get your post.
I never said that power level needs to be kept to level 6. I said that for mechs to have a place in the Dragonmech world, D&D classes must be restricted to only six levels long. However, mechs should have no cap on their power levels. This way, making mechs actually makes sense because only mechs are powerful enough to challenge a CR 16 lunar dragon and the such.
I never said that power level needs to be kept to level 6. I said that for mechs to have a place in the Dragonmech world, D&D classes must be restricted to only six levels long. However, mechs should have no cap on their power levels. This way, making mechs actually makes sense because only mechs are powerful enough to challenge a CR 16 lunar dragon and the such.
Why not just treat mechas as a modular magic equipment that uses the pilot's class and numbers as a base for modifications?
There ain't no rest for the wicked.
befriend (v.): to use mecha-class beam weaponry to inflict grievous bodily harm on a target in the process of proving the validity of your belief system.
befriend (v.): to use mecha-class beam weaponry to inflict grievous bodily harm on a target in the process of proving the validity of your belief system.
I used to post on the Dragonmech forums, and pointed out how the bickering between technology and magic doesn't fit in a setting where intelligence is probably the most highly-prized trait someone can have. All it'd take is one successful partnership between a coglayer and a wizard. They'd start kicking ass, and then everyone else would have to do the same to keep up, so, logically, this pointless conflict wouldn't last long.
They tried to say it's a key part of the setting's politics.
Sigh.
Anyway, I'm ambivalent about capping player levels to level 6, but that's purely because I don't much like that low a level (high-level munchkin, that's me). But add in enough bits for TV serial character advancement for the steamborg I'll inevitably play, and I'm happy.
They tried to say it's a key part of the setting's politics.
Sigh.
Anyway, I'm ambivalent about capping player levels to level 6, but that's purely because I don't much like that low a level (high-level munchkin, that's me). But add in enough bits for TV serial character advancement for the steamborg I'll inevitably play, and I'm happy.
Last edited by Maxus on Sun Jan 17, 2010 2:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
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Username17
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The main problem with Dragonmech is trying to patch it into D&D at all. Giant monsters exist in D&D, but the answer to them is not "get into a giant robot" or even "have a giant monster of your own." It's "send in an elven badass to personally kill it." With that formula on the table, there's no real reason for the giant robots to exist. And indeed, hopping into a giant robot is either a level appropriate activity (in which case it is pointless), or it is not (in which case it is broken).
The goal should be to take a system that works for the style of game you intend to run, and then reskin the abilities to fit your setting. Not to take some game that happens to already have itself skinned towards something that you are using in your world and then trying to overhaul all the mechanics to make it do what you want. The obvious template would be one of the more functional versions of Mechwarrior (not A Time of War, I said functional). You'd streamline the ranged weapons a bit and put in some more melee combat maneuvers, and of course reskin all the tech skills as sorcerous ones and you're good to go.
-Username17
The goal should be to take a system that works for the style of game you intend to run, and then reskin the abilities to fit your setting. Not to take some game that happens to already have itself skinned towards something that you are using in your world and then trying to overhaul all the mechanics to make it do what you want. The obvious template would be one of the more functional versions of Mechwarrior (not A Time of War, I said functional). You'd streamline the ranged weapons a bit and put in some more melee combat maneuvers, and of course reskin all the tech skills as sorcerous ones and you're good to go.
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CatharzGodfoot
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Except D&D is already broken and being a fighter isn't level appropriate. So the thing to do is cast the mech as another kind of artifact sword.FrankTrollman wrote:And indeed, hopping into a giant robot is either a level appropriate activity (in which case it is pointless), or it is not (in which case it is broken).
The law in its majestic equality forbids the rich as well as the poor from stealing bread, begging and sleeping under bridges.
-Anatole France
Mount Flamethrower on rear
Drive in reverse
Win Game.
-Josh Kablack
-Anatole France
Mount Flamethrower on rear
Drive in reverse
Win Game.
-Josh Kablack
Yeah, this is a bolt-on method of fitting the setting to the rules. The traditional D&D concept of leveling up and character classes don't exactly fit. But the d20 system is still popular enough to use it as a framework.
One could do this a bit like the Mutants and Masterminds way. Set a power level that the players are at, and give the players appropriate mechs. There are different power levels, and they are pretty much segregated unless the GM says differently.
One could do this a bit like the Mutants and Masterminds way. Set a power level that the players are at, and give the players appropriate mechs. There are different power levels, and they are pretty much segregated unless the GM says differently.
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Username17
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WTF? If you're doing the Mutants and Masterminds thing, you're writing a whole new ability set and tactical rubric. At that point, why would you use the d20 system at all?Yugo wrote:Yeah, this is a bolt-on method of fitting the setting to the rules. The traditional D&D concept of leveling up and character classes don't exactly fit. But the d20 system is still popular enough to use it as a framework.
One could do this a bit like the Mutants and Masterminds way. Set a power level that the players are at, and give the players appropriate mechs. There are different power levels, and they are pretty much segregated unless the GM says differently.
If you want to port a game system into your setting, use a game system that covers your setting.
-Username17
Actually, you're missing the point. Mechs weren't made because of the giant lunar critters, but because of the lunar rain. Large rocks falling from the sky that deal serious damage to unsheltered settlements.
Of course there are giant lunar critters out there, and so mechs do need to be able to defend themselves as not everyone is a level 10+ Adventurer.
Why Mechs as a solution to this? Why not? It's a laugh, and if you don't like it, don't play it.
Of course there are giant lunar critters out there, and so mechs do need to be able to defend themselves as not everyone is a level 10+ Adventurer.
Why Mechs as a solution to this? Why not? It's a laugh, and if you don't like it, don't play it.