So, I've mentioned my classic run game in In The Trenches, but here's a thing: I need to redesign the MM giants (well, the hill, frost and fire ones).
Partly, it's because those guys show up in significant numbers in those modules, and (for a variety of reasons) the party will not be appropriate level to take on a dozen CR 7-10 bruisers. I need 'em toned down into the 4-6 range.
Mostly, though, it's because they don't feel giant enough. Seriously, they don't. After playing God of War and getting smacked around by the Minotaurs and Cyclopes, looking at the write-ups for giants who are mostly just ogres with larger numbers is kind of a buzz-kill. I want these guys to knock the PCs flying when they hit 'em, and straight-up step on the tiny men. I want them to shake the ground when they walk.
Koumei's incomplete gargantuan creature prestige class is very much the sort of thing I want, only for smaller things.
Also, the Frost and Fire giants need more than just some elemental damage modifiers. They need special effects that distinguish them from each other, like Fire Giants with burning skin and Frost Giants with freezing breath.
Anyway, I'm going to be working on this idea here, but please chime in with critiques because this sort of thing is not my forte.
[Classic Run] Building a Better Giant
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angelfromanotherpin
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angelfromanotherpin
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Hill Giants (intended CR 4)
Okay, these guys are the no-frills big guys. They should have all the basic 'big honkin' dude' mechanics, like knockback and trample, and the others can fill up on cool elemental effects.
Large Giant; HD 4d10+20 (42 hp); Initiative: +0; Speed: 40 feet (30 feet armored); AC: 18 (size -1, natural armor +6, hide armor +3); BAB/Grapple: +3/+15; Space/Reach: 10/10; Saves: +9 Fort/+1 Ref/+1 Wil
Str: 26, Dex: 10, Con: 20, Int: 8, Wis: 11, Cha: 6
Skills: Climb +15, Spot +7, Survival +7
Feats: Cleave, Improved Overrun.
Special Attacks: Knockback, Trample, Hurling.
Special Qualities: Low-light Vision, Rock Catching
Attack: Greatclub +11 melee (2d8+12) or thrown rock +3 ranged (2d6+12).
Knockback: When a Giant takes a Full Attack action, any beings they damage with their attack(s) must make a Reflex Save (DC 20, Str-based) or be sent flying. The distance is determined by a Bull Rush check the giant makes, but the Giant need not move with the target. At the end of the movement, the target takes damage as if they had fallen the distance they moved (or would have moved if they hit a wall or something) and becomes prone unless they make a DC 20 Balance check.
(that's a regular skill use to land on one's feet after a fall in my play group's skill hack)
Trample: As the special ability. The Reflex DC is 20 (Str-based) and the damage is 1d6+12.
Hurling: A Hill Giant can throw a Small object they have lifted as a thrown weapon with 120 ft range increments, dealing 2d6+8 damage. If they are throwing a creature at another creature, the damage is divided evenly between the creatures.
Rock Catching: As normal.
Frost Giants
Fire Giants
Hill Giants (intended CR 4)
Okay, these guys are the no-frills big guys. They should have all the basic 'big honkin' dude' mechanics, like knockback and trample, and the others can fill up on cool elemental effects.
Large Giant; HD 4d10+20 (42 hp); Initiative: +0; Speed: 40 feet (30 feet armored); AC: 18 (size -1, natural armor +6, hide armor +3); BAB/Grapple: +3/+15; Space/Reach: 10/10; Saves: +9 Fort/+1 Ref/+1 Wil
Str: 26, Dex: 10, Con: 20, Int: 8, Wis: 11, Cha: 6
Skills: Climb +15, Spot +7, Survival +7
Feats: Cleave, Improved Overrun.
Special Attacks: Knockback, Trample, Hurling.
Special Qualities: Low-light Vision, Rock Catching
Attack: Greatclub +11 melee (2d8+12) or thrown rock +3 ranged (2d6+12).
Knockback: When a Giant takes a Full Attack action, any beings they damage with their attack(s) must make a Reflex Save (DC 20, Str-based) or be sent flying. The distance is determined by a Bull Rush check the giant makes, but the Giant need not move with the target. At the end of the movement, the target takes damage as if they had fallen the distance they moved (or would have moved if they hit a wall or something) and becomes prone unless they make a DC 20 Balance check.
(that's a regular skill use to land on one's feet after a fall in my play group's skill hack)
Trample: As the special ability. The Reflex DC is 20 (Str-based) and the damage is 1d6+12.
Hurling: A Hill Giant can throw a Small object they have lifted as a thrown weapon with 120 ft range increments, dealing 2d6+8 damage. If they are throwing a creature at another creature, the damage is divided evenly between the creatures.
Rock Catching: As normal.
Frost Giants
Fire Giants
Last edited by angelfromanotherpin on Sun Jun 27, 2010 7:37 pm, edited 3 times in total.
The knockback could be a standard effect on a normal hit, but also fall prone if they fail a save.
Knockback could be based on damage, too. Five feet for five points of damage, maybe.
Knockback could be based on damage, too. Five feet for five points of damage, maybe.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
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CatharzGodfoot
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Something like that. But I prefer the idea of it being automatic. Even if angel doesn't use that idea, I think I'll get some mileage out of it.CatharzGodfoot wrote:Knockback should just be a free bullrush, or a randomized amount (say, 1d6*5 feet).
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
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CatharzGodfoot
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The advantage of making it automatic is that you have much fewer calculations to do. Turning around and basing on damage kills that advantage. Using a d6 keeps it simple and automatic, but also keeps it interesting. With bigger giants you could up the die.Maxus wrote:Something like that. But I prefer the idea of it being automatic. Even if angel doesn't use that idea, I think I'll get some mileage out of it.
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Agreed. It's late and as per my usual way of dropping words and half-finishing thoughts...CatharzGodfoot wrote:The advantage of making it automatic is that you have much fewer calculations to do. Turning around and basing on damage kills that advantage. Using a d6 keeps it simple and automatic, but also keeps it interesting. With bigger giants you could up the die.Maxus wrote:Something like that. But I prefer the idea of it being automatic. Even if angel doesn't use that idea, I think I'll get some mileage out of it.
I meant, I like the concept of an automatic knockback. The variable 1d6*5 is cool, too, and something I will almost certainly steal.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
You don't need to get too complex with the abilities, unless you want them to scale. 'On a successful melee attack a Hill Giant may choose to send an enemy creature flying as if they had made a successful bullrush attack and knocked them 15 feet back. Once the involuntary movement has ended, the character so hit falls prone.' is just fine.
If you wanted to be REALLY fancy, you could put together a Giant Bundle of giant related abilities, like kicking, stomping, and pulling down buildings, using buildings as missiles/weapons. Even some kind of on-death falling over shockwave sorta deal, and then work in elemental attacks on TOP of that for fire ice force storm nuclear particle giants. But of course in that case you'd have to balance those abilities so they don't overshadow the elemental ones, but you do nicely avoid the 'so the hill giant could stomp on people but the fire giant, who is just as big, can only shoot fire from his nose? lame'.
If you wanted to be REALLY fancy, you could put together a Giant Bundle of giant related abilities, like kicking, stomping, and pulling down buildings, using buildings as missiles/weapons. Even some kind of on-death falling over shockwave sorta deal, and then work in elemental attacks on TOP of that for fire ice force storm nuclear particle giants. But of course in that case you'd have to balance those abilities so they don't overshadow the elemental ones, but you do nicely avoid the 'so the hill giant could stomp on people but the fire giant, who is just as big, can only shoot fire from his nose? lame'.
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angelfromanotherpin
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angelfromanotherpin
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