From Arizona to Pacific Asian American History

[Cielingcat]

Seriously?

I mean really, "you are not important enough to make personal attacks against" is itself a personal attack.

Again, seriously?

[Calibron]

Do you seriously believe you are that important? Seriously?

When he does it it is exceedingly obvious that he is trying to be hurtful.

[Count Arioch the 28th]

If the new Arizona law is racist because it would have the effect of targeting Mexicans, are crack laws racist because many of those arrested on crack charges black?

It's pretty much agreed that yes, anti-crack laws were racist. Crack is just a processed form of Cocaine, the only difference is that rich people tend to prefer cocaine while poor people tend to prefer crack. And although there are exceptions (as a ghetto-born poor white kid, I can state that there are), most rich people in American tend to be white while most poor people tend to be black.

If the laws affected both forms of methyl (1R,2R,3S,5S)-3- (benzoyloxy)-8-methyl-8-azabicyclo[3.2.1] octane-2-carboxylate equally, then there wouldn't be a problem.

Now, I don't think I can convince Zinegata of my stance on immigration, and really that's fine as neither of us are in a position to influence policy to a great degree anyway. The problem is that similar laws were passed in America during WWII relating to Americans of Japanese descent, and it ended with us sending them to concentration camps and seizing their property. I'd rather not bear the shame of that happening again in my country.

[IGTN]

You can use the innocent misgendering excuse if you don't, y'know, acknowledge that you know the person's trans and mock them for it. Of course, this is Kaelik, and its mocking always skirts the edge of what it can deny is a slur, but this

Ceiling Cat is all butthurt because I called his transexual desires equivalent to a tattoo or any other cosmetic feelings, instead of his "soul's inner desire"

is pretty clearly saying "I don't respect transpeople". To it, she's a man who wants to be a woman cosmetically, instead of, y'know, a woman.

[Crissa]

But if it targets Asian-Americans like unfair immigration practices, it's not [racist].

The only real difference? Asian-Ameicans don't vote overwhelmingly Democrats.

Who said A, and what proof is there of B?

Without looking, I think A is Zinegata and B is probably the reverse.

-Crissa

Okay, I admit, I looked.

[Zinegata]

But if it targets Asian-Americans like unfair immigration practices, it's not [racist].

The only real difference? Asian-Ameicans don't vote overwhelmingly Democrats.

Who said A, and what proof is there of B?

Without looking, I think A is Zinegata and B is probably the reverse.

-Crissa

Crissa, since you finally admit that you didn't look, then I'll consider this to be one of your typical trash responses and ignore it.

[Crissa]

Why would you consider my post trash when you didn't look either?

-Crissa

[Zinegata]

Why would you consider my post trash when you didn't look either?

-Crissa

Past experiences.

[Kaelik]

So now you're arguing that history is meaningless. In a fucking history thread. The word has a history of being a sexist slur. It wouldn't be a "generic insult" if it didn't have that history as a sexist slur. It wouldn't have any power at all without that history; it'd be a word used exclusively by dog-breeders. Because of this, it is received as a sexist slur. You're arguing that what's going on in your head (we're not mindreaders) makes all of this irrelevant.

Bastard:

So now you're arguing that history is meaningless. In a fucking history thread. The word has a history of being a lineage slur. It wouldn't be a "generic insult" if it didn't have that history as a lineage slur. It wouldn't have any power at all without that history; it'd be a word used exclusively by dog-breeders. Because of this, it is received as a lineage slur. You're arguing that what's going on in your head (we're not mindreaders) makes all of this irrelevant.

Yes, I am arguing that it is impossible to be sexist without having either the intention of demeaning a gender, or the outcome of demeaning a gender. Neither of which exists in this case.

FYI: This is not a history thread. It is a current events thread that is only about History because it was split from the current events thread and Zinegata is a racist.

I don't know, maybe the people you speak with speak a form of English where the word has absolutely no gendered meaning. It's unlikely, but I'm not ruing it out.

Yes, that group of people is called "People under 30."

It's power comes from the ability to either put women in their place or call men women.

No, it's power comes from the fact that our parents told us not to say it, just like Fuck, Damn, Bastard, and Shit.

Just for an example of conventional usage, who does the sentence "how do we beat the bitch" refer to? You can google it if you want.

So just to be clear, the best possible judge of current standards of word usage is what 80 year olds say to other 80 year olds?

It's good to know that the last 50 years of slang have not occurred yet, because 80 year olds don't use them.

In communication, how something is received is more important than what it meant to the sender. But it's the sender's responsibility to ensure that what is received is actually what they meant. How "bitch" is received by all of us who are calling you on this is as a sexist slur. The proper response to a situation where you say something you don't mean is to apologize, correct yourself, and say what you mean. If you insist that using "bitch" to put down specifically (in this thread) a woman is important to you, then to everyone else it really looks like there's something you're not willing to admit.

Congratulations, everything you ever say from now on will be received as a call for mass genocide of the Jews by me. Stupid Nazi.

If you want to feel offended, you certainly can, even when it has no grounding in fact whatsoever. It's not my job to correct people who are hell bent on taking everything I say as sexist.

Nobody called me sexist when I called Carthaz a bitch and a dick two months ago. No one thought I was sexist when I called him a her four months before that.

I did not say something I did not mean. I said something, and you decided that I meant something different than what I said because you are an asshat. The people who think you are full of shit for calling the use of bitch sexist is longer than the list of people who actually think it is. So if you want to go by "receivers privilege" you can suck my dick, because most receivers think it's not sexist anyway.

But now, because the following list of words are all sexist insults: "her, him, it, her, square root, bitch, dick, mother" suddenly it's my job to go around apologizing to the people who are calling me a sexist racist?

FUCK YOU ASSHOLE

I'm the one that gets to be offended here, because I'm the one with completely baseless accusations of racism and sexism being leveled at me. Everyone else is taking pronouns that were totally acceptable four weeks ago and trying to interpret sexism from that. I'm the one who has been explicitly called a sexist racist by no less than five posters based off shit for reasoning.

Die in a Fire.





I'm going to pick this one for trans stuff, because it is probably the best representation of the ongoing trans wars = sexist debate. If someone feels their own contribution brings something unique and important to the table, feel free to repeat it and stress that unique important aspect.

You can use the innocent misgendering excuse if you don't, y'know, acknowledge that you know the person's trans and mock them for it. Of course, this is Kaelik, and its mocking always skirts the edge of what it can deny is a slur, but this

Ceiling Cat is all butthurt because I called his transexual desires equivalent to a tattoo or any other cosmetic feelings, instead of his "soul's inner desire"

is pretty clearly saying "I don't respect transpeople". To it, she's a man who wants to be a woman cosmetically, instead of, y'know, a woman.

Do you believe that I don't respect people with tattoos? I mean fuck. Why would you think I have something against tattoos? Why should I respect someone's desire to be a woman more than I respect their desire to play basketball, or their desire to look awesome in a leather jacket, or their desire to shoot heroin?

PLEASE EXPLAIN, I AM REALLY FUCKING CONFUSED! Why is Ceiling Cat's desire to be a woman more important than anyone else's desire for anything else? Why should I be required to apply some different set of standards to this one desire than I do to everything else? What are these mysterious standards that I am supposed to apply?


And yes, I consider people with XY chromosomes to be male, because they are in fact male. They may want to be female, just like I want to be a fucking computer. Unfortunately for me, I don't have the option of changing right now, and there do exist various incomplete methods of approaching ideal for Ceiling Cat. And so, like someone getting a tattoo, or exercising to lose weight and be buff, I support all attempts to achieve or approach one's ideal. But I do reserve the right to make fun of Ceiling Cat for thinking I'm mean for saying that transexual transformations are equivalent to other transformations. Just like I would mock anyone who at some point declared their need to be placed in a computer superior to body modification.


And now, this week in Prove it you Liar TV:

but I'd like to add that Kaelik has also said he has absolutely no respect for my identity

And can you point to me saying that anywhere? Or only to me saying that I do not have more respect for your identity than I have for anyone else's identity.

[Crissa]

but I'd like to add that Kaelik has also said he has absolutely no respect for my identity

And can you point to me saying that anywhere? Or only to me saying that I do not have more respect for your identity than I have for anyone else's identity.

Ceiling Cat is all butthurt because I called his transexual desires equivalent to a tattoo or any other cosmetic feelings, instead of his "soul's inner desire"

Can someone who Kaelik isn't butthurt at tell him he's being an asshole?

And someone who isn't a girl tell him he's being a sexist pig?

I don't know, maybe the people you speak with speak a form of English where the word has absolutely no gendered meaning. It's unlikely, but I'm not ruing it out.

Yes, that group of people is called "People under 30."

He is being the very definition of 'flashing privilege'.

I'd report his post again, but what's the point? He's just screaming at the ether now, and the next step is to lock this thread, and the one after that is banning him. So few people have actually been banned from here, I dunno if I wanna keep pressing the button.

-Crissa

Why would you consider my post trash when you didn't look either?

Past experiences.

The past experience where I am right and you are wrong? Yeah, that would make me less likely to go look.

Oh, wait, I did look. You're wrong again.

[IGTN]

Can someone who Kaelik isn't butthurt at tell him he's being an asshole?

And someone who isn't a girl tell him he's being a sexist pig?

Tried that and it didn't work.

[Zinegata]

Can someone who Kaelik isn't butthurt at tell him he's being an asshole?

It has never claimed to not be an asshole.

And someone who isn't a girl tell him he's being a sexist pig

It is not a sexist pig. In fact, a girl specifically said its comments were not sexist.

I'd report his post again, but what's the point? He's just screaming at the ether now, and the next step is to lock this thread, and the one after that is banning him. So few people have actually been banned from here, I dunno if I wanna keep pressing the button.

-Crissa

You can report people for being a bitch? Why wasn't I told?

[Count Arioch the 28th]

The mistake I made in my dealings with Kaelik previously was giving him far too much benefit of the doubt. He seriously IS a screaming child that doesn't know his head from a hole in the ground. He's not in need of guidance or correction, he won't improve with criticism or with flaming. He's a screaming brat who is very good at getting under people's skin.

I'm not saying that to be mean; He's barely in his second decade (if that), and has a lot to learn about the world but thinks he knows it all. Like we all did at 19. The only thing that will teach him is the passage of years, and The Gaming Den isn't made to do that.

[Count Arioch the 28th]

You can report people for being a bitch? Why wasn't I told?

Technically you can report anyone for any reason, or no reason at all. Fbmf is the type of guy that's not easily swayed unless given adequate reason though, so I don't know if "being a bitch" will fly as a reason to report someone.

[Kaelik]

Can someone who Kaelik isn't butthurt at tell him he's being an asshole?

And someone who isn't a girl tell him he's being a sexist pig?

Why would either of those matter?

I am clearly being an asshole to Ceiling Cat as a person. Because I hate Ceiling Cat. Mostly because Ceiling Cat called me a sexist. My hatred for Ceiling Cat has exactly dick to do with transgender anything though, so it has no bearing on me disrespecting identity.

Likewise, as far as I know, Ganbare and IGTN are both guys, and have called me sexist, if not specifically a sexist pig. Their gender has no bearing on them being correct. You seem to jump to sexism faster than most people, but I don't attribute that to gender.

I believe, based on his posts, that Ganbare is white, and yet he is the fastest jump to racism. And the second fastest to sexism.

None of that has any bearing on anything.

EDIT:

I don't know, maybe the people you speak with speak a form of English where the word has absolutely no gendered meaning. It's unlikely, but I'm not ruing it out.

Yes, that group of people is called "People under 30."

He is being the very definition of 'flashing privilege'.

How the fucking hell is it "flashing privilege" to say that people under 30 use a term in an ungendered way?

Is it somehow a bad thing if a word stops being an insult. Are you seriously getting upset that a word is no longer a sexist slur? Because when words stop being used in an objectionable way and start being used in a non objectionable way the world somehow gets worse?

Do you just want to take offense?

[Crissa]

Zinegata, have you gone back and learned that you were wrong?

-Crissa

[Zinegata]

The mistake I made in my dealings with Kaelik previously was giving him far too much benefit of the doubt. He seriously IS a screaming child that doesn't know his head from a hole in the ground. He's not in need of guidance or correction, he won't improve with criticism or with flaming. He's a screaming brat who is very good at getting under people's skin.

I'm not saying that to be mean, he's barely in his second decade (if that), and has a lot to learn about the world but thinks he knows it all. Like we all did at 19. The only thing that will teach him is the passage of years, and The Gaming Den isn't made to do that.

Bullshit.

The only reason it is getting attacked is because somebody here has been fishing for emotional reassurance. And when that person didn't get it from Kaelik and instead got criticized, that person lashed back.

And people are simply siding with that person because they think it's a gender/liberal issue.

Also, Count, you're a deceitful SOB who hides under the veneer of being reasonable, when in fact what you're trying to do is to insult the other poster.

I didn't point it out for the sake of being nice, but you tried to equate my position to fucking concentration camps. What part of my proposal - which involves giving everyone a fair shot to get a green card - require that concentration camps be built?

Like I said in the first post, if you wanna insult someone, do it to his face instead of pretending to be reasonable when you're actually just out to insult the other person.

[Zinegata]

Zinegata, have you gone back and learned that you were wrong?

-Crissa

Crissa, I'm gonna continue ignoring stuff that you wrote when you didn't actually read what I post.

Because even when you do fucking read you get basic facts wrong like the independence date of the Philippines.

Past experiences show that you get facts wrong. A lot. And you don't read the other person's posts at all. A lot. And you just post nonsense replies. A lot.

So either read what I actually fucking wrote and craft a proper reply or shut up.

[Count Arioch the 28th]

I didn't point it out for the sake of being nice, but you tried to equate my position to fucking concentration camps. What part of my proposal - which involves giving everyone a fair shot to get a green card - require that concentration camps be built?

Perhaps I didn't express myself in a good way, allow me to clarify?

I was referring to Arizona sb1070 in the offending post. I offer my apologies, my brain likes to jump around somewhat erratically, and I have to remind myself that people who aren't witnesses to my thought processes internally don't understand what the hell I'm getting at.

I was not referring to your suggested idea of revising the green card procedure, I didn't make that clear.

My apologies for expressing myself improperly. It is sb1070 that seems like the first step towards what America did in WWII.

[Zinegata]

I didn't point it out for the sake of being nice, but you tried to equate my position to fucking concentration camps. What part of my proposal - which involves giving everyone a fair shot to get a green card - require that concentration camps be built?

Perhaps I didn't express myself in a good way, allow me to clarify?

I was referring to Arizona sb1070 in the offending post. I offer my apologies, my brain likes to jump around somewhat erratically, and I have to remind myself that people who aren't witnesses to my thought processes internally don't understand what the hell I'm getting at.

I was not referring to your suggested idea of revising the green card procedure, I didn't make that clear.

My apologies for expressing myself improperly. It is sb1070 that seems like the first step towards what America did in WWII.

Okay. Sorry for venting too. Yes, the police state argument is valid. But so would pretty much any other measure to clamp down on illegals (let's be honest about it - you need to do SOME heavy-handed thing to clamp down on it.)

[Count Arioch the 28th]

Okay. Sorry for venting too. Yes, the police state argument is valid. But so would pretty much any other measure to clamp down on illegals (let's be honest about it - you need to do SOME heavy-handed thing to clamp down on it.)

I understand you aren't feeling my previous assertions on the matter, but I do believe the best way to go about this is to attack the demand, not the supply. Crank down HARD on people hiring illegals, not the illegals themselves. To the point where it's no longer profitable to hire them. My way was only one possible way to do that.

There wouldn't be people coming here illegally to work if they were no longer able to.

Profit is what drives American business. You can make people act in nearly any way you want them to if you make certain actions less profitable.

[Crissa]

So, even though I linked a source, Zinegata won't read it.

Because he's wrong.

Woo.

-Crissa

[Zinegata]

So, even though I linked a source, Zinegata won't read it.

Because he's wrong.

Woo.

-Crissa

No, you're being a bitch. If you editted your original post, say so.

And your link only speaks of the Obama election. Which, you know, he won by a landslide because even independents voted for him.

Overall however, the trend is as follows:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_American

Asian Americans are politically diverse, and tend to vary by ethnicity. "Unlike most African Americans nationally and Latinos in California, who tend to vote for Democrats, Asian Americans have diffused their potential political voice because they are more inclined to vote on the basis of candidates and issues, regardless of party

Everybody loves Obama. But don't confuse that with everyone loving the Democrats

[Crissa]

So... Hmong vote Republican, therefore... That's your whole point?

The wikipedia article doesn't support the assertion you.quoted. I might as well say that Blacks vote issues as well, because on propositions they vote the same as any other christian church attending group. Or latinos, because ex-pat cubans are not just majority GOP but nearly all. Or...

Don't trust articles which don't say why they state things.

-Crissa

PS You didn't admit you were wrong, you made up an excuse. Obama did not win every demographic. Notice the majority of counties with large Asian populations vote Democratic, including ones where they are more than a quarter of the population.

Educated people generally vote Democratic, as well, but not 2:1.

Are you done being wrong yet?

[Zinegata]

Crissa, you are dishonest. Everything you posted was either a lie or irrelevant.

So... Hmong vote Republican, therefore... That's your whole point?

Ergh, what? Hmong vote Republican? Is this even English?

Or are you (stupidly) claiming that Asian-Americans vote Republican? Never said such a thing. If you read the fucking article, you'd know how they actually vote.

The wikipedia article doesn't support the assertion you.quoted. I might as well say that Blacks vote issues as well, because on propositions they vote the same as any other christian church attending group. Or latinos, because ex-pat cubans are not just majority GOP but nearly all. Or...

The wikipedia article says straight out that Asian-Americans have diffused political views and don't vote on the basis of party.

It also says straight out that Latinos and Blacks do actually tend to vote Democrat.

So you're intentionally not reading what it says. Which is typical.

Which again makes you a bitch.

Don't trust articles which don't say why they state things.

It actually does explain why the above trend holds true. Read the article. And it cites several sources. You're in denial.

PS You didn't admit you were wrong, you made up an excuse. Obama did not win every demographic.

Notice that I said Obama won over independents. Guess what's the biggest affiliation of Asian-Americans? Independents and non-partisan.

In fact, the article even breaks down party affiliation. Independents and non-partisans form the highest block. Democrats are 2nd, but it's considerably less than the percentage of Blacks and Hispanics.

In 2008, polls indicated that 35% considered themselves non-partisan, 32% Democrats, 19% independents, and 14% Republicans

In short, 54% of Asian-Americans consider themselves independent or don't have a party affiliation. More than either party combined.

In comparison, 57% of Hispanics are Democrats. More than independents and Republicans combined. Wiki doesn't have the percetage of African-Americans who are democrats, but 88% of them voted for Kerry.

So no, Blacks and Hispanics DO overwhelmingly vote Democratic. Asian-Americans do not. You actually have to fucking work to get them to vote for you and not just play the race card.

Which is why the latter gets the short stick and the former gets to play the race card. And just because Blacks and some Hispanics said "Fuck you" to same-sex marriage doesn't mean they don't vote overwhelmingly Democrat. It just means they didn't like that particular issue. And you should fucking get over it already if you're into that same-sex thing.

It's simple hypocrisy by the extreme left. Which is why you're again bitching.