Moments when a piece of entertainment completely rocked you.

[CatharzGodfoot]

Don't you mean completely impossible?

No. I mean almost impossible. In biology, almost nothing is completely impossible.

We aren't chickens, so you can't just graft some cells with male DNA to some cells with female DNA and get functional male and female parts on different parts of the body. Each piece of gonadal tissue develops into functionality at the behest of hormones - hormones that circulate in the blood. So you'd think that even in the case of genetic mosaicism and partial duplication where someone has two sets of gonads, that the hormones would still have a sword fight and one or the other would win and only one (or none) of the gonad sets would actually take hold. And normally, you'd be right.

However, there exist mutations that deny cells androgen receptors, and people who have those mutations develop into pretty sexy looking women even if they are males. And those mutations are governed on a cell by cell basis - like a chicken. So if you had a genetic mosaic which was predominantly female with an androgen receptor knock-out and the other cell line included an exogenous gonad duplication and was itself male, then you would indeed make a large breasted woman with functional uterus who nonetheless had a penis and a set of testicles.

Not going to happen, but it's possible. In Biology, almost everything is possible.

-Username17

Frank, if she/he was a mosaic then wouldn't the androgen insensitivity be likewise distributed among the various cells of her/his body? You'd just end up with an intersexed individual with combined ovarian and testicular tissue and intermediate genitalia (as most intersexed people have).

Even if the distribution of cells wasn't random, you wouldn't end up with functional 'double set' because male and female organs develop from the same tissues. He/she couldn't have both testicles and ovaries.

If the androgen insensitivity existed in all cells, then the Wolffian system would be re-absorbed as normal and the person wold be effectively female (aside from reproduction).

Sorry to burst your bubbles, dickgirl lovers out there.

[Crissa]

That's why it's generally considered impossible, Catharz.

Most commonly intersexed is just incomplete formation one way or the other. Like Frank said, the ovaries and the testes develop from the same structures, so you generally only have two. In androgen insensitivity, the most common is merely undescended testes. But there have been those with testes structures and ovarian structures.

I don't know why we have members of the forum trying to get away with 'it's just a meme' or 'it's just like gay'. Because it isn't. And when someone asks you not to use some language, shouldn't you think that maybe you're wrong?

WTF with the arguing.

-Crissa

[Prak]

so, Crissa, do you get offended when someone refers to Orcs as greenies or dwarves as rockfuckers?

[Crissa]

Fantasy gets to have hermaphrodites, too.

Or do you have [EDITED] in your fantasy?

-Crissa

[Username17]

Frank, if she/he was a mosaic then wouldn't the androgen insensitivity be likewise distributed among the various cells of her/his body? You'd just end up with an intersexed individual with combined ovarian and testicular tissue and intermediate genitalia (as most intersexed people have).

The lack of androgen receptors would be distributed in every cell the was descended from the cell line that had that mutation, and every cell descended from the other cell line would not have it. A mosaic person is essentially a "Siamese Twin." Each cell line is a fraternal twin created by a separate sperm and egg - so they can have different genetics (even different fathers).

How much and which parts of the body belong to each genetic line can potentially be pretty much anything at all. And indeed, there may be duplication of one or more structures (we call it two different people if there is duplication of the head, and call it one person if any number from zero on up of structures are duplicated if there is only one head). Usually, duplicated structures are useless, even dangerous - like the extra limbs on
Lakshmi, but sometimes they work.

So yes, it is possible for that to happen. However it would take the confluence of several rare events that are so rare that we tell children that they do not happen to all happen at once. But from an engineering standpoint, it wouldn't be that hard. We're talking about arranging a graft between two embryos, one of which has a specific genetic knockout. We do that to plants all the time. Of course, people will go on and on about how it's completely unethical and totally pointless, so I can't really imagine it being done any time in the next hundred years. But eventually? Absolutely. Never underestimate the achievements of rich unethical perverts who are funding science in countries where life is cheap.

Considering that people already do hormone replacement therapy on boys in South East Asia to give them tits to make them more exotic as prostitutes, I say: Give it time. It's like scientific Rule 34. As scientific achievements become more reproducible an available, they are more and more likely to eventually be used for pointless sex games. Genetic engineering and human cell grafting will eventually come to that as well.

-Username17

[RandomCasualty2]

umm.... ok, Crissa, "Trap" is a meme. It can be used derogatorily, or humourously, or hell, even affectionately. And pretty much anyone who looks like a female but has a dick can be regarded as a trap, that's what the meme was created for. So whether they're a crossdressing guy, a transgendered person, or an actual hermaphrodite, the term applies.

should I ever find myself in a physical shape such that I would consider actually crossdressing from time to time, I wouldn't mind close friends using "trap" as a term of affection or endearment, in fact I'd kind of take it as a compliment, since "traps" are specifically very convincing crossdressers. This is just like how I don't mind, and even kind of appreciate being called an asshole, I don't see it as a necessarily negative thing.

Yeah, really calling someone like that a "Trap" should be a compliment, since they look enough like a girl that they can trick people. And that's a hell of a lot better than just calling them a crossdresser, assuming their goal is to trick people. Getting called a "Trap" means they're tricking people well.

[Kaelik]

And when someone asks you not to use some language, shouldn't you think that maybe you're wrong?

No Crissa, when you tell someone not to use some language, that says nothing at all about it being wrong to use that language.

You are against use of the word bitch, hysterical, hermaphrodite, purple, cubed, and really, anything that has ever been used anywhere ever to refer to a human being.

You are also on record as saying that disagreeing with Madonna is sexist, and agreeing with Madonna is also sexist, and that specifically saying "You wouldn't understand because you are white you stupid honky" is not racist.

If you say something is offensive, all that tells us is that it is not a word used exclusively to refer to white men.

[Prak]

Fantasy gets to have hermaphrodites, too.

Or do you have [EDITED] in your fantasy?

-Crissa

wtf? how does that have anything to do with my question? Are you now a Fantasy Creature's Rights Advocate?

Fuck, that's more obnoxious than S.P.E.W. At least that only (seriously) existed in universe...

[Crissa]

how does that have anything to do with my question?

You didn't answer the question, though.

I said this was an insult. You do not[/i] get to say it isn't. I don't care about the rules on 4chan. I don't want to post - or be involved with - people who blithely cast around derogatory terms for real persons. This may seem edge-case to you, but people are still people, whether they're transwhatever or not.

And I am not going to stand your bigotry without saying something about it.

-Crissa

[Lago PARANOIA]

I don't care for the word 'trap'. At the basis of this supposedly humorous concept is peoples' latent sexist/homophobic fear that those silly men want nothing more to do than to trick them so that they can stick a surprise dick up their ass. Like, 'how DARE they trick me into thinking they're something they're not! They probably just want to fuck/convert me by surprise!'

New meme, same old shit. I guess the 'homosexual men value hetero-ass so much more than gay ass that they're willing to do anything to get it' trope became TOO trite and obvious. So now there's a need to renew it, hopefully being able to hide it behind a joke so people can accuse others of not having a sense of humor!

[Parthenon]

This is probably relevant to the discussion.

Can people just get past this and bring me some rocking entertainment?

[Kaelik]

I said this was an insult.

But you are wrong. Hermaphrodite is not an insult, so stop getting mad at people for saying it.

[CatharzGodfoot]

I don't care for the word 'trap'. At the basis of this supposedly humorous concept is peoples' latent sexist/homophobic fear that those silly men want nothing more to do than to trick them so that they can stick a surprise dick up their ass. Like, 'how DARE they trick me into thinking they're something they're not! They probably just want to fuck/convert me by surprise!'

Lago, I'm pretty sure that the "trap" is more along the lines of

a: '*fapfapfap* moar pls! *fapfapfap*'
b: 'No, it's a trap!'
c: 'Here you go'
a: 'Oh god, she has a dick! My poor heterosexuality, now I'm gay ;_;'
c: 'trollface.jpg'

Although it's a clear example of threatened heterosexuality, I don't think the phrase actually originated with people who had sex with anyone.

[MGuy]

@Crissa: What is and isn't insulting is completely subjective. Something can be generally be accepted as insulting to a lot of people or insulting to a few people. I've never seen anyone be insulted by the word herm before, and many MANY people use it in the wrong sense without being insulted.

I'd wager you have a long list of words you consider this and that but pressing your concerns or beliefs onto other people, especially over the internets, is not likely to get them to change their ways. You should calmly explain what a herm really is and leave it at that without making drawn out arguments over it where you keep trying to take the moral high ground by slating any and every person who disagrees as some negative -ist term.

I've never thought twice of the word Herm and I'm probably not gonna change my use of the word after this because I don't find the current usage of that word OR indeed the word trap to be "wrong" as long as when I use it people understand what I'm referring to and aren't generally butt hurt over it.

I'd like to not have to stop in the middle of other discussions to skip over so many pointless lines about how someone is offended by bad internet grammar.

[mean_liar]

Fantasy gets to have hermaphrodites, too.

Or do you have [EDITED] in your fantasy?

-Crissa

I routinely have gnomes and halflings refer to Medium-sized races as "biggers".

[Cielingcat]

Yeah, really calling someone like that a "Trap" should be a compliment, since they look enough like a girl that they can trick people. And that's a hell of a lot better than just calling them a crossdresser, assuming their goal is to trick people. Getting called a "Trap" means they're tricking people well.

And this is why people outside of a group do not get to decide what people inside that group find offensive or not.


(Also, Lago is correct, and it is an offensive term, no matter how much you are not-offended by a term that isn't used to refer to you.)

[Crissa]

Yeah, as it's also used as the most common affirmative defense in transgender murders.

Estimates of the population of transgender people is from one in a thousand to one in ten thousand. Of course the people you talk to aren't generally 'butthurt' over it.

Of course it is offensive.

-Crissa

[Maj]

I have been following this conversation, largely because I have been ignorant of the terms being discussed and I'd like to be a bit more savvy.

Censorship doesn't help. Avoiding the use of a term because it's insulting to someone somewhere does not improve communication when the topic is the word itself.

And this is why people outside of a group do not get to decide what people inside that group find offensive or not.

I was not aware that Crissa fell into the group of traps, or hermaphrodites, shemales, dickgirls, futanari, etc. I was under the impression she was just a lesbian.

I'd like to not have to stop in the middle of other discussions to skip over so many pointless lines about how someone is offended by bad internet grammar.

Word.

Chuck has been seriously rocking my world for the last couple of months, and I feel bad posting about it in the appropriate thread because dickgirls have taken over.

[Cynic]

going back to things that rock you.

Realizing that people who supposedly hate Lost are watching the last episode and being stunned and amazed by it.

Now that is entertaining. It is also entertainment to me that I stopped watching Lost in s2 and I don't think I'll go back.

But deadwood on the other hand is akin to being a dude who rocks out with his cocks out.

Damn it, I tied it into the censorship debate.

[Crissa]

Lesbians often are included in the 'gender variant' group. I don't wear skirts, I don't use makeup, I don't often wear jewelry, I don't wear anything with extra stitches or sequins on it. And I get called a man or boy quite frequently, and I don't like it. Any more information about my genitals is seriously off-limits unless you're going to be having sex with me iRL.

Anyhow, like I said, the numbers are seriously against someone being 'in' that particular group, anywhere. Nor do they have much of a reason to out themselves - while Frank pointed out their suicide rate is pretty high, their murder rate is similarly sky-high.

Most of my knowledge comes from being a peer counsellor and public speaker on the issue for several years. It'd be ten years out of date, except that once in the community, always in the community, and I trade names and contacts and information to people who need it all the time.

Besides, as I said, I wouldn't stand quiet about other derogatory terms.

-Crissa

PS; I was worried about Chuck last season, and it has been pretty predictable this season - but very awesome at the same time. I haven't watched the last four episodes of the season yet, but they're in my On Demand queue.

[Count Arioch the 28th]

Fantasy gets to have hermaphrodites, too.

Or do you have [EDITED] in your fantasy?

-Crissa

I routinely have gnomes and halflings refer to Medium-sized races as "biggers".

One time I played a halfling that was the master of the cheap shot and the gang-up.

[Count Arioch the 28th]

And I get called a man or boy quite frequently, and I don't like it.

When I had long hair, I was referred to as "Ma'am" an awful lot.

Considering that I had a 4" chin goatee and am built like a brick buick, I can only assume most people have a tenuous grasp on gender at best.

[Kaelik]

And this is why people outside of a group do not get to decide what people inside that group find offensive or not.

So if I say that the word male offends me, and the word white offends me, will you and Crissa stop using those words because they are offensive?

Or will you say "it's not really offensive, you are just being a bitch about it."

Since it's Crissa's official position that "honky" is not a racial slur, I can pretty much predict the answer.

[Mask_De_H]

SO HOW ABOUT THOSE POKEMANS?

HAVE YOU SEEN THE NEW SHOTS OF THE CITY? THEY REALLY DID A GOOD JOB WITH THE ISOMETRIC THREE DIMENSIONAL VIEWPOINTS AND REACTIVE PEOPLE DIDN'T THEY?

I CAN'T WAIT FOR THAT GAME TO COME OUT!

seriously crissa, kaelik, stop it. nothing good ever comes from you two verbally slapfighting and i don't want to have half of the thread be "you have this person on ignore".

[Crissa]

Considering that I had a 4" chin goatee and am built like a brick buick, I can only assume most people have a tenuous grasp on gender at best.

Pretty much. And some get violent when their preconceptions are broken. I don't get it.

So there's no real reason to perpetuate it, is there?

-Crissa