Why no Flaming times nine Sword in 3.x DnD?

[K]

Ok, so it's a fact that I've always been an arcanist, a mage's mage. Heck, I won't even play Wizards anymore because they are the Easy Button on arcane magic compared to Sorcerers.

So here is the question for people who are Fighters and fighting guys: Why don't people get magic weapons with a +1 of real weapon enhancement and spend the other +9 in Flaming taken nine times (or even that's too meta for you, then Flaming/Frost/Acid/Sonic/blah blah blah.....).

What is the mechanical reason for that not being done? I'd thing that even at level 20 when bullshit resistances abound, a 9d6 added to every iterative attack would be enough to make someone.... anyone.... try it. I mean, an average of 30ish damage to every hit is useful.

[TheFlatline]

Does flaming or whatever stack multiple times? I thought it was a one-time enhancement.

[LR]

Bonus dice aren't multiplied by crits or charges.

[Maxus]

Ok, so it's a fact that I've always been an arcanist, a mage's mage. Heck, I won't even play Wizards anymore because they are the Easy Button on arcane magic compared to Sorcerers.

So here is the question for people who are Fighters and fighting guys: Why don't people get magic weapons with a +1 of real weapon enhancement and spend the other +9 in Flaming taken nine times (or even that's too meta for you, then Flaming/Frost/Acid/Sonic/blah blah blah.....).

What is the mechanical reason for that not being done? I'd thing that even at level 20 when bullshit resistances abound, a 9d6 added to every iterative attack would be enough to make someone.... anyone.... try it. I mean, an average of 30ish damage to every hit is useful.

Thematics, I suppose. I've toyed with the idea--like a Shocking Frost sword--but couldn't come up with a decent description for a Flaming Frost sword that my players would swallow. But I suppose a Flaming sword x9 would be a lot of fun if it could do this:

[K]

Bonus dice aren't multiplied by crits or charges.

So? You still have a normal Fighting build, but you will do +30 damage with every hit.

The two issues are not related.

[Endovior]

Image links are borked, but you're totally right.

[Data Vampire]

The only thing I can think of is epic level Fiery Blast enchantment.

[LR]

So? You still have a normal Fighting build, but you will do +30 damage with every hit.

The two issues are not related.

It does to people who who try to min-max fighters. When I was still trying to make a straight Fighter work, I always preferred static damage bonuses over variable bonuses simply because they worked with Valorous and Leap Attack. I'm not sure why, but I know that I picked it up from the Touhou fans on /tg/ and the CharOp board.

[Psychic Robot]

I have always assumed that you can only take an enhancement once, but I can't find anything in the rules to justify it. I like this idea.

[Username17]

You see people running around with Cold Shocking bows. The thing is: those enchantments aren't as good as regular pluses. People who want to kill things with damage either go Rogue or go for damage multipiers. And for damage multipliers, even crap like Mighty Cleaving is better than an extra non-multiplied die of fire damage.

Even if enemies never had fire resistance (or any other kind of resistance), 3.5 damage added at the end is just small potatoes to a spirited charger who is multiplying all static damage outputs by 4. Even that crappy thing that gives you an insight bonus to-hit is better than a bonus die of actual Ultima damage because you'd just spend it on Power Attack and double it and come out with 4 points of damage (8 on a crit).

Only people with weaksauce min/maxing use the Sword of Many Colors, because in 3.5 rules it sucks.

-Username17

[magnuskn]

Because high-level opponents normally have multiple immunities and resistances to energy damage, negating most of those enhancements.

Also, no, you cannot stack the same enhancement multiple times. 100% sure of that, although I am also not sure where exactly it was written down.

[Prak]

Yeah, I'm with PR and TheFlatline... I never even considered the possibility that an enhancement could be taken multiple times...

Only people with weaksauce min/maxing use the Sword of Many Colors, because in 3.5 rules it sucks.

Eh, there are people who prefer aesthetics and flavour over min maxing who use it.

[virgil]

I know you could stack the same metamagic feat multiple times in 3.0, which they got rid of in 3.5, but I can't for the life of me find the rules that forbid stacking the same weapon enchant. I think in terms of math, it's better to have +1 atk/dmg than +3.5 damage.

It does make me imagine a +1 Plant bane x9 Greataxe. Other variants include a +1 Defending Bane x8 (Plant) Greataxe (up to +17 AC vs plants), +1 Spell Storing x9 Quarterstaff (the only rechargeable magic staff), +1 Vicious x9 Nun-chucks, etc

[Wyzzard]

Dual-wielding quad-wounding swords could potentially be quite amusing.
Well, unless you're in Ravenloft.

[hogarth]

So here is the question for people who are Fighters and fighting guys: Why don't people get magic weapons with a +1 of real weapon enhancement and spend the other +9 in Flaming taken nine times (or even that's too meta for you, then Flaming/Frost/Acid/Sonic/blah blah blah.....).

What is the mechanical reason for that not being done? I'd thing that even at level 20 when bullshit resistances abound, a 9d6 added to every iterative attack would be enough to make someone.... anyone.... try it. I mean, an average of 30ish damage to every hit is useful.

a) I have seen Shocking Frost weapons (or other weapons with two elements).
b) There are other ways to get +2d6 damage on your weapon that isn't affected by energy resistance (e.g. Holy).
c) I've never played in a game where a PC had a +10 enhancement weapon. Probably the best was around +5.

[RobbyPants]

I've seen multi-colored weapons before, but often it's something like throwing a 3,000 gp augment crystal on top of a +1 flaming weapon, so it's really not the same as a +3 weapon in terms of cost (11,000 vs 18,000).

While static plusses are often better, they still cap out at +5, which means if you get a +6 or better weapon, you have to still spend those on something. Of course, you can probably get something better than flaming.

While the rules might not explicitly forbid stacking flaming over and over on one weapon, anecdotally, I can't think of anyone who would allow it that I've gamed with.

[Roy]

Ok, so it's a fact that I've always been an arcanist, a mage's mage. Heck, I won't even play Wizards anymore because they are the Easy Button on arcane magic compared to Sorcerers.

So here is the question for people who are Fighters and fighting guys: Why don't people get magic weapons with a +1 of real weapon enhancement and spend the other +9 in Flaming taken nine times (or even that's too meta for you, then Flaming/Frost/Acid/Sonic/blah blah blah.....).

What is the mechanical reason for that not being done? I'd thing that even at level 20 when bullshit resistances abound, a 9d6 added to every iterative attack would be enough to make someone.... anyone.... try it. I mean, an average of 30ish damage to every hit is useful.

Yes and no.

Loading up on special properties is the way to go, and it's what I do. But since you can't take the same things more than once, and most of them do get negated by trivial resistance you do have to dig around to find worthwhile ones. Then you throw a GMW on it, and you might just be able to contribute at high levels (ok no you won't, but it was worth a shot).

[Koumei]

And it's a shame. People want swords made of fire, and thunder hammers, lightning/ice spears and shit. So what would a Book of Gears Fire weapon look like?

I'm guessing it would be:
[*]A Magic Weapon (duh) - probably Moderate or something
[*]Fiery: the damage dealt is Fire damage as well as whatever type it usually does. When damage is dealt, apply the lowest of the relevant Energy Resistance and Damage Reduction (or relevant Immunities).
[*]Burnination: anyone struck by the weapon must, at the end of the turn of the striker, pass a Reflex save (usual magic item DC) or catch fire. Every turn that the victim fails to put the fire out, he takes 1d6 Fire damage per +1 the weapon has.
[*]Warm Light: a Flaming weapon emits light as per the spell, and reduces incoming Cold damage by an amount equal to the BAB of the wielder.

Icy would be Cold damage, Burnination becomes Frosted Steel (save vs Slow or something), Warm Light becomes Cool Light (Fire Resist). Shocking would be Electric damage, Burnination becomes Double Shocker (save vs Entanglement?), and Warm Light becomes Neon Light (some kind of half-assed resistance. Does an electrical current block anything?)

[Gelare]

Yeah, the math just doesn't really add up at any point. It's +3.5 non-multiplying damage (assuming no resistances) compared to +1 damage and an extra 5% to hit, which you can put to a number of good uses. Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of walking around with a +1 flaming shocking frost acidic sonic dwarven urgrosh (or whatever), but it just isn't...good.

[Kaelik]

1) There are already book of gears fire items.

2) They better not give save vs slow, since save vs slow is time distortion, and it doesn't also give other abilities.

[mean_liar]

It's because you want stuff like Greater Wounding, or even straight +s.

Those +s, with Power Attack and Leap Attack and Rhino's Rush turn into bigger adds than easily-resisted (and annoyingly resisted) elemental damage.

[Roy]

Everyone who says it's a bad idea because basic +1s are better fails at optimization forever.

[virgil]

Didn't you already say that you're not contributing at high levels even if you layer special properties on top of the GMW?

I've been searching, and I still can't find anything in the SRD forbidding multiple uses of an enchantment. Many of the special properties don't do anything when layered anyway (can't really be more seeking). I can't help but notice that Paizo did add the line that you can't stack the same enchantment onto a weapon to their ruleset though, so I suspect it is an addition.

As an aside: Far Shot plus +1 heavy crossbow of distance x9 = over 4.5 mile max range and a single range increment longer than most people can even shoot.

[mean_liar]

Everyone who says it's a bad idea because basic +1s are better fails at optimization forever.

HURRDURR oops.

Yeah.

Still there are better things than Flaming, depending on level.

[Vebyast]

I've put together a few quick not-quite-optimized characters that made very, very good use of a $Weapon of Many Colors. The most successful was a rapid-throwing build that used a Throwing Telekinetic Many Colors greatsword. That +30 damage really stacks up you're doing it twenty or thirty times per round (or sixty or seventy times per round if the DM lets you abuse templates).