So how come no comments on the new Magic Missile?
Moderator: Moderators
So how come no comments on the new Magic Missile?
There's been some gnashing of teeth about the change to Magic Missile (sic) of 4e, but nothing here.
I particularly think the reason for the change is fascinating:
http://www.gamertell.com/gaming/comment ... d-dragons/
I particularly think the reason for the change is fascinating:
http://www.gamertell.com/gaming/comment ... d-dragons/
- Psychic Robot
- Prince
- Posts: 4607
- Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 10:47 pm
>make a shitty new edition that dumps all over D&D traditions
>change shitty edition to more resemble old editions
>wonder why fans hate it
Implying implications.
>change shitty edition to more resemble old editions
>wonder why fans hate it
Implying implications.
Count Arioch wrote:I'm not sure how discussions on whether PR is a terrible person or not is on-topic.
Ant wrote:You do not seem to do anything.Chamomile wrote:Ant, what do we do about Psychic Robot?
-
- Serious Badass
- Posts: 29894
- Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
The original magic missile created and fired +1 Crossbow bolts. I don't understand why anyone would get upset over whether or not Magic Missile had an accompanying attack roll.
While I'm sure there are jackasses out there who get their panties in a knot over the fact that some spell or another has mechanics that are different from their favorite edition, but I don't give a rat's ass. Magic Missile is a bad thing because you only have two at-will powers so you end up casting it as often as you right click in Diablo. So it's boring as fuck. That's what's wrong with it. No twaddling with the mechanics can ever make it interesting or worthwhile. What we have is a fundamental failure to understand the sheer degree of their failure.
-Username17
While I'm sure there are jackasses out there who get their panties in a knot over the fact that some spell or another has mechanics that are different from their favorite edition, but I don't give a rat's ass. Magic Missile is a bad thing because you only have two at-will powers so you end up casting it as often as you right click in Diablo. So it's boring as fuck. That's what's wrong with it. No twaddling with the mechanics can ever make it interesting or worthwhile. What we have is a fundamental failure to understand the sheer degree of their failure.
-Username17
-
- Invincible Overlord
- Posts: 10555
- Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:00 am
Was Magic Missile ever worth the space it took to write it in? I imagine that with the low hit point inflation in 2nd Edition it'd be useful for the first 9 or so levels when you would need something to take out an enemy at long range when weapons wouldn't do.
Josh Kablack wrote:Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.
In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.
Well, it was "magic", which meant it could hit things that might not otherwise be affected by other spells. Granted, there were plenty of better spells, especially situationally better spells, but the sheer reliability of it made it acceptible, at least in a system where you didn't get to pick your spells. I mean, if your wizard rolls up "charm person", and that's his only useful spell, things are going to suck when the party's first adventure is the Dungeon of Oozes and Giant Rats.
Also, it could hit the stupid-low AC will-o-wisp. Big deal? No, but it was still more fun than 4e's "wizards no longer have to carry a crossbow because we're giving them a spell that's the same thing as carrying a crossbow and that's cool" that is 4e's magic missile.
Also, it could hit the stupid-low AC will-o-wisp. Big deal? No, but it was still more fun than 4e's "wizards no longer have to carry a crossbow because we're giving them a spell that's the same thing as carrying a crossbow and that's cool" that is 4e's magic missile.
Last edited by Doom on Tue Jul 13, 2010 4:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
- CatharzGodfoot
- King
- Posts: 5668
- Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
- Location: North Carolina
Yes, magic missile was well worth its spell slot in 2e. The fragility of the wizard coupled with large numbers of foes meant that having automatic damage (with, as you note, the lower 2e HP) was very good.Lago PARANOIA wrote:Was Magic Missile ever worth the space it took to write it in? I imagine that with the low hit point inflation in 2nd Edition it'd be useful for the first 9 or so levels when you would need something to take out an enemy at long range when weapons wouldn't do.
The law in its majestic equality forbids the rich as well as the poor from stealing bread, begging and sleeping under bridges.
-Anatole France
Mount Flamethrower on rear
Drive in reverse
Win Game.
-Josh Kablack
-Anatole France
Mount Flamethrower on rear
Drive in reverse
Win Game.
-Josh Kablack
- Josh_Kablack
- King
- Posts: 5318
- Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
- Location: Online. duh
1. People are still reading the 4e errata? WTF?
2. The auto-hit should be a notable power-up, as in 4e you only hit 40-60% of the time no matter what, so this should roughly double the damage Magic Missile does - aside from the damage nerfs (see below)
3. You were dealing 2d4 (4d4 at 21st level)+Int+Implement+Other Implement+Item+Cheese damage before. Now, if I am interpreting the wording correctly, you are only dealing 2(3 at 11th, 5 at 21st) +Int +Implement+Cheese damage. The lack of a damage roll, means you lose out on the item bonus from Bracers of the Perfect Shot and the cheese factor is going down a bunch. This means the average DPR is probably about the same as it was before.
4. Cloud of Daggers still auto-hits for Wis in an area for a duration anyways.
5. Heck, maybe 4e could reduce the grindiness and mitigate padded sumo by switching all powers to auto-hits with equivalent DPR.
2. The auto-hit should be a notable power-up, as in 4e you only hit 40-60% of the time no matter what, so this should roughly double the damage Magic Missile does - aside from the damage nerfs (see below)
3. You were dealing 2d4 (4d4 at 21st level)+Int+Implement+Other Implement+Item+Cheese damage before. Now, if I am interpreting the wording correctly, you are only dealing 2(3 at 11th, 5 at 21st) +Int +Implement+Cheese damage. The lack of a damage roll, means you lose out on the item bonus from Bracers of the Perfect Shot and the cheese factor is going down a bunch. This means the average DPR is probably about the same as it was before.
4. Cloud of Daggers still auto-hits for Wis in an area for a duration anyways.
5. Heck, maybe 4e could reduce the grindiness and mitigate padded sumo by switching all powers to auto-hits with equivalent DPR.
"But transportation issues are social-justice issues. The toll of bad transit policies and worse infrastructure—trains and buses that don’t run well and badly serve low-income neighborhoods, vehicular traffic that pollutes the environment and endangers the lives of cyclists and pedestrians—is borne disproportionately by black and brown communities."
- Josh_Kablack
- King
- Posts: 5318
- Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
- Location: Online. duh
I gotta disagree - albeit slightly.No twaddling with the mechanics can ever make it interesting or worthwhile.
Divine Power's "Power of [Blah]" feats which gave an optional secondary effect on at-wills were a neat idea not taken far enough, and if done differently could have made at-wills tactically interesting.
Making such effects cost feats was ass, but if each at-will came with something like 2 +1/5 levels riders where each time you used the power you could chose a rider something like: "give ally temp HP", "give target defense penalty", "change power's damage to [Type] and deal +N damage]", "grant ally saving throw", "grant ally combat advantage against target", "impose saving throw penalty on target", "power gets to hit bonus against [status] targets", "power can be used at increased reach", "you may ignore [status ailment] with power], etc - then you would have mechanics that made them interesting.
Of course you'd then you'd have to rewrite encounter and daily powers to keep up - and that's a stupid amount of work when I can just play 3e/ Champions /Feng Shui/ SR4 Rolemaster/ /KAMB instead.
"But transportation issues are social-justice issues. The toll of bad transit policies and worse infrastructure—trains and buses that don’t run well and badly serve low-income neighborhoods, vehicular traffic that pollutes the environment and endangers the lives of cyclists and pedestrians—is borne disproportionately by black and brown communities."
- RobbyPants
- King
- Posts: 5201
- Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 6:11 pm
- Avoraciopoctules
- Overlord
- Posts: 8624
- Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:48 pm
- Location: Oakland, CA
In Baldur's Gate 2, magic resistance did apply to Magic Missile, but it was rolled separately for each missile. This meant you were almost certain to get some damage through, and meant that your mages had something to do in the many, many battles against magic-resistant fiends.K wrote:It was very fast to cast and allowed no save or resistance. It also helped that you could see when enemies were near death, so it was the perfect "finishing off spell".RobbyPants wrote:Do you know what the mechanics were in Baldur's Gate?
Basically an ideal kiting spell or spamming spell.
It might have also been good for wearing out defensive spells, but I don't remember for sure, as I favored waiting until the buff spells of enemy wizards ran out before seriously engaging them whenever possible.
The fast casting speed meant that you also were frequently able to pause the game right before beginning a conversation with a big enemy, and order your mages to cast magic missile. The conversation would then play out as normal, and, if you timed it correctly, the missiles would fire just as it ended, before enemy mages had a chance for their five thousand contingency spells to take effect.
Out beyond the hull, mucoid strings of non-baryonic matter streamed past like Christ's blood in the firmament.
-
- Prince
- Posts: 3295
- Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 4:22 pm
The new magic missile is pretty awful. Basically you cast it and the wizard doesn't touch the dice the whole time. The spell autohits and the damage is static. It's the perfect spell to spam if you just want to play video games the entire session and let someone else run your character for you. It's way shittier than cloud of daggers, but you benefit by not even having to be at the table.
-
- Apprentice
- Posts: 99
- Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:37 am
In 2ed MM was very useful for that rule that said that if you are hit for a single point of damage you can't cast spells for that round,with his long range and auto-hit was a great way to hinder a caster (well, one that didn't have cast Shield before, but AFAIR clerics didn't have it just to say one)Lago PARANOIA wrote:Was Magic Missile ever worth the space it took to write it in? I imagine that with the low hit point inflation in 2nd Edition it'd be useful for the first 9 or so levels when you would need something to take out an enemy at long range when weapons wouldn't do.
Last edited by Just another user on Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I only played the playstation 2 one but in that version for the sorceress, the lightning ball was the shiznit. I'd just fire that thing down the map and laugh as stuff died. I'd clear rooms without ever entering them and only the strongest (non-boss) baddies took more than a couple lightning balls to wipe out.Blicero wrote:At least in the Baldur's Gate games, Magic Missile was one of the best offensive spells in the game. It was especially good for killing dragons, I recall.
Last edited by erik on Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The playstation version of Baldur's gate wasn't based on D&D mechanics even a little bit. It was just a D&D-branded diablo clone. IIRC.
Anyway, in my AD&D game magic missile was a big deal. a 10 level wizard did 18 points of autohit damage, no save. A fighter with 18 Strength, a +5 sword, and specialization, did 1d8+11 X 2, or 30 damage with attack rolls (admittedly, he always hit most enemies.)
You could feel perfectly okay with tourself after a fight were you did nothing but spam them.
Anyway, in my AD&D game magic missile was a big deal. a 10 level wizard did 18 points of autohit damage, no save. A fighter with 18 Strength, a +5 sword, and specialization, did 1d8+11 X 2, or 30 damage with attack rolls (admittedly, he always hit most enemies.)
You could feel perfectly okay with tourself after a fight were you did nothing but spam them.
In Neverwinter Nights, MM was acceptable. But the real shiznit was the "It's like MM but better". Probably level 4 or something, so as to not fight for space with Fireball. Seriously, it was autohit, multiple target Force damage, with the kind of damage that you expect of single-target "Save for half" spells.
Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.
Yes, apparently, making it auto hit and do static damage means that 98.9% of the feats, items, and buffs in 4E no longer actually work with it since it doesn't technicly have an attack or damage roll.Josh_Kablack wrote:
2. The auto-hit should be a notable power-up, as in 4e you only hit 40-60% of the time no matter what, so this should roughly double the damage Magic Missile does - aside from the damage nerfs (see below)
3. You were dealing 2d4 (4d4 at 21st level)+Int+Implement+Other Implement+Item+Cheese damage before. Now, if I am interpreting the wording correctly, you are only dealing 2(3 at 11th, 5 at 21st) +Int +Implement+Cheese damage. The lack of a damage roll, means you lose out on the item bonus from Bracers of the Perfect Shot and the cheese factor is going down a bunch. This means the average DPR is probably about the same as it was before.
So aside from wierd dumpster diving and frankenstein like builds, I think a crappy staff, a shitty wand and the Wizard's Fury daily power are the only things that affect it at all now.
As someone who has played the same game, that's more a problem with the other spells sucking hard than that spell being awesome. Though it is nice. A few enemies were annoyingly immune though.erik wrote:I only played the playstation 2 one but in that version for the sorceress, the lightning ball was the shiznit. I'd just fire that thing down the map and laugh as stuff died. I'd clear rooms without ever entering them and only the strongest (non-boss) baddies took more than a couple lightning balls to wipe out.Blicero wrote:At least in the Baldur's Gate games, Magic Missile was one of the best offensive spells in the game. It was especially good for killing dragons, I recall.
Draco_Argentum wrote:Can someone tell it to stop using its teeth please?Mister_Sinister wrote:Clearly, your cock is part of the big barrel the server's busy sucking on.
Juton wrote:Damn, I thought [Pathfailure] accidentally created a feat worth taking, my mistake.
Koumei wrote:Shad, please just punch yourself in the face until you are too dizzy to type. I would greatly appreciate that.
Standard Paizil Fare/Fail (SPF) Type I - doing exactly the opposite of what they said they would do.Kaelik wrote:No, bad liar. Stop lying.
Standard Paizil Fare/Fail (SPF) Type II - change for the sake of change.
Standard Paizil Fare/Fail (SPF) Type III - the illusion of change.
- Gnosticism Is A Hoot
- Knight
- Posts: 322
- Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:09 pm
- Location: Supramundia
'Isaac's Lesser Missile Storm'. Gamewinner. Came in a 'Greater' version too, but that was a level 7 spell or something so competition for slots was harsher.Koumei wrote:In Neverwinter Nights, MM was acceptable. But the real shiznit was the "It's like MM but better". Probably level 4 or something, so as to not fight for space with Fireball. Seriously, it was autohit, multiple target Force damage, with the kind of damage that you expect of single-target "Save for half" spells.
The soul is the prison of the body.
- Michel Foucault, Discipline & Punish
- Michel Foucault, Discipline & Punish