Is WotC's layoff policy creating a D&D death spiral?

[hogarth]

I think his Arcana Unearthed was in many ways an improvement on the system. If his setting didn't suck too hard, and if his improvements had been actual rewrites of the kitchen sink fantasy that is DnD and not his setting-specific stuff, I think he could have made a real go at his attempt to do 3e his own way. He basically got pwned by the Earthdawn Effect.

That's the first time I've heard that term. What's the Earthdawn Effect?

Presumably that the setting is way, way too specific and unusual.

K, Arcana Unearthed was an improvement in one or two ways (I like most aspects of the spell slot system and the racial levels were interesting), terrible in several ways (seriously, the warmain class is worse than the fighter class -- it takes a special talent to do that; also, there are only two full caster classes and the rest have bard casting + mediocre class abilities -- witch, I`m looking at you...), and a whole bunch of stuff that makes you want to slam your head on the table (the best weapon is a sword with an axe blade and spikes glued on to it -- WTF). That puts it on a quality level with every single 3.X splatbook ever written.

[Zinegata]

mean_liar->

Actually, you've mentioned exactly why I believe "minimizing prep time" is so problematic. To achieve it, you often have to change the way the game is played.

So far, the two mainstream implementations that attempt to minimize play time have resulted in the following:

a) D&D 4E - derided as a very bad system as it severely limits player options, and despite its restrictiveness it's still unbalanced.

b) Warhammer 3rd Edition - derided as a really, really weird system that can't decide whether it's a boardgame or an RPG.

"Indie" titles have also tried to make prep time shorter, most notably Mouseguard which many see as an improvement over the overly complex Burning Wheel system. However, Mouseguard also plays very differently from D&D - it very much encourages a Magic Tea Party style of play.

And that's really my point. If you go beyond the existing tools (i.e. Pregens), you're gonna end up having a very different kind of game instead of the traditional RPG experience.

Shifting tools to an online database help, but only a little. The main advantage of an online database is that you can sort monsters and other data the way you want. Sort them by level, by exp, by name, by type, etc, and it will be done instantly. Boardgame/RPG hybrids try to simulate this by using cards, but it's not as fast as sorting via computer.

However, in order to speed up the actual selection of monsters, you need to do 2 things:

a) Have a really short list of monsters per category. If your choices for a level 1 challenge boil down to "Orcs or Kobolds", selection becomes REAL easy.

b) Have a really short description for each monster. Which is actually 4E's problem - the monsters are just blobs of HP with one or two unique gimmicks. Meaning that making them exist in any situation outside of combat is very difficult.

In other words, I don't think you can transfer 4E "minimize prep time" tools to other games without also bringing in the gameplay elements that made it suck.

Now, someday, somebody might pleasantly surprise me by creating a D&D-style RPG that has minimal prep time, without having 4E's retardness, and without becoming a Magic Tea Party (I wouldn't mind Warhammer FRPG style bits, as long as we don't end up with thousands of pieces).

But at the present time, I just can't see how you can do it.

(Also, I can explain precisely why it takes only 30 minutes to teach Battlestar Galactica, while it takes hours to create characters, and how applying techniques from the former is impractical in an RPG. But that's another long rant )

[TheFlatline]

Flatline->

There was a "D&D for Dummies" book published a while ago. It sold... poorly.

Personally, again, I think "make it easier to setup" is a valid concern, but we already have a solution for this - which is pregenerated modules and adventures. Go any further and the line between boardgames and RPG will start to vanish, particularly when you look at how boardgames improve speed of setup.

I didn't want a "for dummies" book, all these people already know how to game.

What I want is a Wizards booklet/book/cheat sheet/single chapter that has how to attack, skill checks, whatever. Reading that and getting spoonfed what rolls to make by the GM should get you through gaming sessions without the GM wanting to strangle you.

D&D is actually not as bad as other games, since almost everyone who games knows D&D's rules. Get away from D&D however, and it goes downhill, fast.

And pregenerated adventures don't fix the problem I'm talking about. Actually writing an adventure isn't the painful part for me, it's wanting to run said written material, but barely being able to because you're having to walk people through every step of the rules every single session.

I nominate a new litmus test for RPGs. If you can't hand someone a pre-generated character and have them playing more or less to their capacity/role in the party within 15-30 minutes, your rules are too fucking complicated. Period.

[Lago PARANOIA]

Making D&D more convenient to run and play. I have more than this, certainly, but I have to get to class in 30 minutes. So this is all you get, you fucknuts.

Ground zero is some kind of online tabletop app. It needs to have these features:

• A built-in battlemap. It really doesn't need to be super-complicated 3D. Just having an isometric map that the DM can edit and people can put 2D tokens on is fine. The battlemap should have an internal logger like chess. Meaning that you define the parameters of the grid, assign each token a symbol (i.e. Skeleton #3 is S3, Aragon is A, etc.) and the logger tracks each movement of a token to a spot on the grid.
  For determining most effects, you click on the origin square. Then you click on a destination square, which can include the origin if it's a close burst or blast. When you click the destination square, you have a choice of making it a ranged burst if it's at range or a blast if it's adjacent to you. You type in the number to denote the size. The player can take over from there for weird effects like 'targets one ally in burst' or 'does one thing to allies, one thing to enemies.'
• A chat window with everyone in the group. The chat window should have icons. The DM has a bunch of icons that he can click to denote that an NPC is talking. The fonts, colors, and typeface should be easily selectable.
• A dice roller. Not that stupid shit where you click dice, but seriously someone should just type something like '+roll 4d6+1d8+10/reroll 1s' and get an output of '[5] [3]#2 [5]#1 [4] + [7] + 10 = 34. #denotes this dice was rerolled X amount of times' So people won't go into grognard withdrawl, there should be a sound effect associated with
• An automatic logger that can output everything that went on in a session to a file or to the program. It has functions such as stripping out the dice roll, stripping out the movements of objects on the battlemaps, stripping the out-of-game chat, and/or stripping out the roleplaying and making it a .txt file.
• You should be able to upload any amount of character sheets. You can choose to let anyone look at them, only the DM, or nobody but yourself. You can also selectively choose what to hide or show the other players.
• You should be able to go to a D&D server and effectively go LFG or starting your own game with you as the DM. You as the DM can say what the campaign is going to be like, what time that you're going to meet, who you're looking for in the group, etc.. A player can petition one of the 'looking for' DMs with their character sheet and any other information that they would like to give.
• People can upload pictures, documents, or music to the application to enhance the experience. If the DM wants to play the jazzy 'Death March to Orcville' tune, the other people can listen in. If the DM wants to say 'okay, here's what the vampire queen looks like' then they can do that as well.
• The application should be readily able to be played on a smartphone or laptop.

Monster Manuals should be organized by CR like someone else wisely suggested in my other thread. Beyond that, Monster Manuals should also be suborganized into themes. That is, you look up CR 5-6 and there's an 'orc party' theme, an 'undead' theme, a 'salamander' theme, and a 'wyvern and friends' theme, a 'spellcaster' theme, and some miscellaneous monsters. You are allowed to mix-and-match monsters, the themes are just arranged in such a way so that you can open up the Monster Manual to the appropriate page and get a double-page spread of every monster block you need to run a themed encounter.

While some monsters definitely should come back for rematches, like elves and dragons, really that shit where you have level 4 ogre magi and level 8 ogre magi needs to go.

The game really needs to go to Winds of Fate. After DMing several games, I do have to say that, at low levels at least, people who haven't strung their powers together in a combo already are barely on the 'right' side of option paralysis. Unfortunately, 4E doesn't give enough options.

To eliminate option paralysis while also making characters' power sets interesting, we need to go to this.

[mean_liar]

I'm with you up until the WoF. I think a modular, effects-driven system is much better.

Whats the original topic of this thread? Should I care? I'm terrible for staying OT.

[K]

I think his Arcana Unearthed was in many ways an improvement on the system. If his setting didn't suck too hard, and if his improvements had been actual rewrites of the kitchen sink fantasy that is DnD and not his setting-specific stuff, I think he could have made a real go at his attempt to do 3e his own way. He basically got pwned by the Earthdawn Effect.

That's the first time I've heard that term. What's the Earthdawn Effect?

Presumably that the setting is way, way too specific and unusual.

K, Arcana Unearthed was an improvement in one or two ways (I like most aspects of the spell slot system and the racial levels were interesting), terrible in several ways (seriously, the warmain class is worse than the fighter class -- it takes a special talent to do that; also, there are only two full caster classes and the rest have bard casting + mediocre class abilities -- witch, I`m looking at you...), and a whole bunch of stuff that makes you want to slam your head on the table (the best weapon is a sword with an axe blade and spikes glued on to it -- WTF). That puts it on a quality level with every single 3.X splatbook ever written.

I'd argue that most 3.x splatbooks had no improvements to the system at all. Sure, most had one or two decent classes, but that's not an improvement to the system at all.

Arcana Unearthed had several improvements. For example, each spell had a pricing model based on whether that spell was made into a one-shot, continuous, or charged item, so that took a lot of eyeballing out of magic item creation. The system for spell availability with Common, Uncommon, and Exotic also added a lot to the storytelling aspects of the system. There was also a system of feats for flavoring your magic with effects which I thought was a real improvement.

There were more, but the fact that there were any overshadows any particular failures in individual classes or other details.

And yes, the Earthdawn Effect is where you have a great system tied to a setting, and no one plays because they don't like your setting. Fantasy RPGs need to be generic for tabletop gaming and hyper-stylized for computer games because the only advantage to tabletop gaming is the openness of your rules and plotlines.

[Neurosis]

Lago, I think you missed my point.

Stuff like the character builder, "easier setup", and social networking are all stuff that are intended to appeal to the WoW crowd. The problem is, the WoW crowd is simply not attracted to the tabletop gaming experience. At all.

I have actually met people that play 4E because of WoW. Like, they played WoW and we said "Do you want to try this?" and they said "What is it? and we said "Well it's like WoW" and then they played it and then they were like "Hey, this is like WoW. We really like it".

True story.

Maybe that's just the exception that proves the rule though.

[hogarth]

I'd argue that most 3.x splatbooks had no improvements to the system at all. Sure, most had one or two decent classes, but that's not an improvement to the system at all.

Then you're comparing apples and oranges, because (a) most splatbooks aren't trying to be an alternate PHB and (b) the ones that do add to the system generally fit this description (e.g. Tome of Magic's binding magic is not bad).

Arcana Unearthed had several improvements. For example, each spell had a pricing model based on whether that spell was made into a one-shot, continuous, or charged item, so that took a lot of eyeballing out of magic item creation. The system for spell availability with Common, Uncommon, and Exotic also added a lot to the storytelling aspects of the system. There was also a system of feats for flavoring your magic with effects which I thought was a real improvement.

All of those are examples of "interesting idea, terrible implementation". For instance, many exotic spells and spell templates that are jokes (i.e. no sane PC would ever spend a feat to learn them).

There were more, but the fact that there were any overshadows any particular failures in individual classes or other details.

We can agree to disagree on that point, since it's a matter of taste. Have you ever played a game of AE, by the way?

[K]

I'd argue that most 3.x splatbooks had no improvements to the system at all. Sure, most had one or two decent classes, but that's not an improvement to the system at all.

Then you're comparing apples and oranges, because (a) most splatbooks aren't trying to be an alternate PHB and (b) the ones that do add to the system generally fit this description (e.g. Tome of Magic's binding magic is not bad).

Most splatbooks are trying to add to the game. For example, Frostburn tried to add a pile of rules for cold and cold weather, but most people only remember the PrCs, feats, and spells and it's the same with all the others. Complete Divine tried to add rules for religous relics, but that idea fell flat. Name a splatbook and I'll tell you what they tried to add.

But Tome of Magic was crap. Three whole systems of magic that made you glad you picked cleric or wizard.

Arcana Unearthed had several improvements. For example, each spell had a pricing model based on whether that spell was made into a one-shot, continuous, or charged item, so that took a lot of eyeballing out of magic item creation. The system for spell availability with Common, Uncommon, and Exotic also added a lot to the storytelling aspects of the system. There was also a system of feats for flavoring your magic with effects which I thought was a real improvement.

All of those are examples of "interesting idea, terrible implementation". For instance, many exotic spells and spell templates that are jokes (i.e. no sane PC would ever spend a feat to learn them).

Yeh, but you have to expect that some of the implementation is crap from a solo project, and that doesn't mean the idea itself is bad.

Exotic spells is an interesting idea. A strict pricing model for spells based on what kind of item you make out of them is a great idea. Some botched spell ideas doesn't invalidate those ideas.

There were more, but the fact that there were any overshadows any particular failures in individual classes or other details.

We can agree to disagree on that point, since it's a matter of taste. Have you ever played a game of AE, by the way?

No, and for the same reason I won't play Pathfinder. I mean, why learn what is basically a new system for only small improvements when I could test out my own stuff.

[Lago PARANOIA]

Whats the original topic of this thread? Should I care? I'm terrible for staying OT.

Whether D&D is going into a long-term death spiral because of the quality of the writing staff.

I think it's going into a slow death spiral regardless because of the clunky interface, but bad writers certainly do not help. If you believe Frank's numbers, that's a catastrophic reduction in numbers. That's like Mr. Garcia showing up to your office and throwing you out the 13th floor.

[Zinegata]

Schwarz->

Note my comment regarding "omni" gamers. There are people who like all sorts of games - but this is only a small segment. Most prefer to stick to a few game types.

I didn't want a "for dummies" book, all these people already know how to game.

What I want is a Wizards booklet/book/cheat sheet/single chapter that has how to attack, skill checks, whatever. Reading that and getting spoonfed what rolls to make by the GM should get you through gaming sessions without the GM wanting to strangle you.

What you want then, is something aking to a character card in Chaos in the Old World (BSG has similar ones, though less detailed). Which has each character's (Chaos God's) special rules, a quick summary of play, and stuff to keep track of powers and consumeables. All in a handy colored sheet half the size of a bond paper.

Also, it helps a lot that boardgames already put a lot of rules information on the board itself, as opposed to putting it in the rule book.

The problem really, is that RPGs are insanely customizeable. So Wizards can't exactly publish a pre-made sheet like that - it'd have to be full of blanks to take into account whatever choices the player made. Web-based versions already exist if you'd prefer to print out stuff that write it down, but such web versions tend to just list down stuff, as opposed to presenting a proper rules summary.

The alternative is cards. Warhammer FRPG hands out cards to players when they get new abilities, which has the whole rule summary. These cards can be put in a "character envelope" for later use. Problem is, it's pretty fiddly once you get a lot of abilities.

I nominate a new litmus test for RPGs. If you can't hand someone a pre-generated character and have them playing more or less to their capacity/role in the party within 15-30 minutes, your rules are too fucking complicated. Period.

Some companies now offer previews of their product that include an adventure and pre-gen characters. Which is a good thing. Unfortunately, even though I found Deathwatch easy enough to teach from the Pre-gens, the full game ended up a lot more complicated.

[Zinegata]

Lago->

Online tabletop apps already exist. A lot of them already do. I personally use Screen Monkey, but the most popular one is Open RPG.

Seriously, there is already an existing tool that does every single one of what you're asking - with one exception:

A smartphone app. And people would be stupid to make a smartphone app anyway. Seriously. Try chatting via a Smart phone for 4 fucking hours and tell me if you enjoyed it.

And they don't sell very well. Because again, only very few people who do tabletop want to do RPGs online.

A tabletop D&D thing is one of those things that sound great on paper, but the vast majority of existing RPG players will never use it, and the vast majority of WoW or regular video game players will never be impressed by it. Besides which, the former group who are really inclinded to do online RPGing already use tools like OpenRPG and ScreenMonkey anyway.

Really, the idea that online tabletop apps will save D&D needs to die. It's been done before. The reason why WoTC stopped developing theirs isn't just because they were incompetent. It's because they probably realized that people have already created most of the tools they were planning to develop years ago, and few of those made money. It's certainly not worth $15 a month when OpenRPG is for free.

---

Monster Manual via CR works.

---

What the hell is Winds of Fate?

[Quantumboost]

What the hell is Winds of Fate?

Characters have a set of moves which are divided into some number of groups. A die (usually a d6 in discussions on this board) is used to randomly determine which group(s) of moves the character can use on a given turn.

[Lokathor]

I nominate a new litmus test for RPGs. If you can't hand someone a pre-generated character and have them playing more or less to their capacity/role in the party within 15-30 minutes, your rules are too fucking complicated. Period.

Earthdawn 3e passes that test actually...

[hogarth]

Exotic spells is an interesting idea.

Meh. In practice, it boils down to class (and race) spell lists, with the possibility of cherry-picking another class's spell by spending a feat. That's pretty standard 3.5 stuff, although Monte might have come up with the idea first; I don't know what the timeline is like.

A strict pricing model for spells based on what kind of item you make out of them is a great idea.

I don't know what you mean by "strict pricing model"; the cost of a constant item (say) depends on the particular spell it's based on. It's a completely idiosyncratic system.

----

To bring it back to the main subject, K was spot on when he said: "I can't really blame the designers because they were clearly told to make a game that sells minis and battle maps and cards." Even Monte Cook or Jonathan Tweet (or whoever your "dream" designer is) couldn't do much with that.

[Neurosis]

Schwarz->

Note my comment regarding "omni" gamers. There are people who like all sorts of games - but this is only a small segment. Most prefer to stick to a few game types.

Not that this really disproves what you're saying, but IIRC they had never tabletopped before. It was pretty clear-cut that if not for 4E's similarities to WoW they would not have enjoyed it. It's just two people we're talking about though I have no comment on the larger situation.

[Zinegata]

What the hell is Winds of Fate?

Characters have a set of moves which are divided into some number of groups. A die (usually a d6 in discussions on this board) is used to randomly determine which group(s) of moves the character can use on a given turn.

That sounds rather arbitrary and just makes one pick the best move from each group every single time.

[erik]

Monte's AE was an improvement but missed lots of things just as K said.

I keep finding that every time someone tries to improve 3e that they never go far enough for my tastes. Usually it becomes change for the sake or change/marketing (3.5, pathfinder). AE at least did some more majr overhauls which I regarded as positive.

Monte watered down casters some but did not amp up noncasters. I was intrigued by his spell casting system but there were definitely an overabundance of trap options.

I think that if Monte used something more hard analytical like the Same Game Test or a math-heavy writing partner then he could make some really outstanding products.

Also he could use help for fluff writing. I recall reading one fiction book of his and regretting the 50cents it cost me. I think I did not even finish it, which I almost never do. Pretty sure I threw it away rather than giving it to goodwill since I did not want to turn anyone away from reading.

[K]

Exotic spells is an interesting idea.

Meh. In practice, it boils down to class (and race) spell lists, with the possibility of cherry-picking another class's spell by spending a feat. That's pretty standard 3.5 stuff, although Monte might have come up with the idea first; I don't know what the timeline is like.

The interesting idea was twofold: that certain classes would get access to exotic spells by being a specialized caster (I think it was Witches that got access to a type of Exotics based on their Witch type, or maybe it was a feat to get access to all spells of that type... but it's been a while and I can't recall), and there was also a feat for a extra spell which was mostly used by Simple Casters to get Complex spells.

Like I said, it was an interesting idea. If I was 5e DnD, I would probably do a similar system so that Necromancers got access to the wierd necromancy spells and generic spellcasters used a generic list.

A strict pricing model for spells based on what kind of item you make out of them is a great idea.

I don't know what you mean by "strict pricing model"; the cost of a constant item (say) depends on the particular spell it's based on. It's a completely idiosyncratic system.

Right, but so is the spell system. It's an actual working fix, and what it lacks in efficiency it makes up for functionality.

It actually takes the eyeballing out of pricing magic items, despite the fact that it's not pretty. Ideally, you'd write spells in such a way that they are as powerful if made continuous items as if they were use-activated, but in reality spell design is all over the place with some spells balanced with durations in hours and some in rounds.

To bring it back to the main subject, K was spot on when he said: "I can't really blame the designers because they were clearly told to make a game that sells minis and battle maps and cards." Even Monte Cook or Jonathan Tweet (or whoever your "dream" designer is) couldn't do much with that.

Heck, I don't think I could do it, and I'm totally arrogant.

[Lago PARANOIA]

Even Monte Cook or Jonathan Tweet (or whoever your "dream" designer is) couldn't do much with that.

The Miniatures Handbook was surprisingly good if you ignored the class/feats/PrCs. The items were good along with the spells and the mass combat minigame was actually pretty well thought-out.

I just don't think that many people give a fuck about miniatures. WotC is really barking up the wrong tree trying to push it so much; I mean even in 4E people my groups used pennies and Legos and leftover DragonStrike pieces and shit.

[TheFlatline]

What you want then, is something aking to a character card in Chaos in the Old World (BSG has similar ones, though less detailed). Which has each character's (Chaos God's) special rules, a quick summary of play, and stuff to keep track of powers and consumeables. All in a handy colored sheet half the size of a bond paper.

I don't want pre-generated characters.

In 3.x, I made "character cheats", which were 3-10 pages, duplex printed, which distilled down rules that you needed to know as your character archetype. Fighters had big bullet points highlighted in neon orange that said "MELEE ATTACK: 1D20 + STR MOD + RELEVANT MODS" (my hand to god I had someone play in a game that seriously asked me every. single. round. how to roll to attack).

In 3.0, I listed out all the feat names and gave a page reference. I had a page reference for grappling, sundering, skill points per level, hit dice per level. For wizards & clerics, I listed spell names, the level of the spell, and what page in the PHB you could find it. I bullet pointed how to calculate spell DC, sell resistance, and other fun crap like that. Every class had a list and page reference to in-class skills. Later versions had a 1 sentence or less descriptor of each skill. Wizards & Clerics also had their spell progression by level shown as a little stat block.

When new players came into D&D, I'd hand them the cheat booklet, tell them to pick up a PHB, and reference the PHB as needed for their characters. I probably sold 20 PHBs simply by distributing cheat booklets to fellow gamers.

By the time the players got to prestige classes, the packet was never used any more, but for getting players started, I didn't drop 400 pages into their lap and say "pick and choose, have fun reading".

3.5 came out and I didn't have the gumption to go and revise it all, since I was playing other games by that point. Also, once I left college, I didn't have time to devote to building up info packets for my players with that kind of pertinent knowledge.

I'd happily dish out 5 or 8 bucks for a booklet like that for almost any class-based RPG. It wouldn't work for a game like Shadowrun (though you could make a generic reference booklet), but any game that's class or role-based you could totally pull off. If you make it vague enough (requiring referencing to the core book) you even sell books that way. As is, cheap-ass gamers unwilling to dish out 30 bucks a copy for 3 or 4 copies of a rulebook for a gaming group might be more willing to dish out 8 bucks a head for their character class. If they play more than one class, they're likely to buy a rule book instead of the booklet.

I guess that's sort of the idea of Essentials, but I want that booklet *in addition to* the core book, not in replacement of it. Don't change the fucking mechanics and make it optional for quick-starting a character type, and you have a winner product. Christ, talk about an easy, cheap, print on demand product. Print the covers on heavy cardstock, the interior printed nicely (color I guess these days to please the kiddies), and off you go.

[Zinegata]

Eh? I don't think your packets are very different from the character cards from Chaos in the Old World. Like I said, said those summary sheets come with the special rules for that character, a quick summary of play, and a way to keep track of consumeables. And they do serve to remind absent-minded players of some very basic rules. Yours is just a longer version - because you're trying to summarize and condense a 400-page rulebook instead of summarizing a 50 page one.

And I think you're showing exactly why such a project would be a headache for a D&D-style RPG - just what exactly should you put in your summary sheets, and what should you leave out? Narrowing it down to class-specific stuff sounds good in theory, but in a game with a lot of base classes (i.e. D&D) you'd have to do a lot of work to customize it for each class, and each product will sell very poorly because it's only targeting a fairly small slice of the pie.

I don't doubt that your summaries were effective, as you've been able to sell D&D to a lot of people using them. What I'm questioning is their practicality as a mass-market product, when you're trying to summarize a 400 page rule book instead of a 50 page one.

[Aharon]

@Lago
I don't think you're right wrt miniatures. I started a new game about 9 months ago, with people who hadn't played previously. I don't have the cash to spare, so all the monsters are represented by dice - but 3 players weren't content with that, 2 of them bought miniatures and one carved a mini himself. So there's definitely some market for that. I think I would buy minis, too, if I had more money - description and printing out pictures from the MM is okay, but minis would work better and require less work on my part.

[Zinegata]

D&D minis would have made a ton more sense if they didn't try to sell them in random packs like Magic cards.

[xechnao]

a) D&D 4E - derided as a very bad system as it severely limits player options, and despite its restrictiveness it's still unbalanced.

b) Warhammer 3rd Edition - derided as a really, really weird system that can't decide whether it's a boardgame or an RPG.

I am not familiar with Warhammer 3e but the design idea behind D&D 4e of limiting everything to balanced roles that define shticks so that the game runs only on this front instead of providing "simulationist" tools where you can make subpar or optimized characters is not a bad one. The implementation so far may not have been very elegant and the system may have needed more polish to perfectly function as intended but the idea is not bad.