Blinking

[Ravengm]

So I'm in a 3.5 campaign where "pretty much anything" is fair game. I'm playing a rogue and finally have enough money to do something with it, and I'm heading for the Blinking Ring.

The problem: how do I avoid that 20% miss chance for blinking? Or should I even care? I have ~30-40k gold to blow, and a feat I can set on fire if I have to.

[Username17]

So I'm in a 3.5 campaign where "pretty much anything" is fair game. I'm playing a rogue and finally have enough money to do something with it, and I'm heading for the Blinking Ring.

The problem: how do I avoid that 20% miss chance for blinking? Or should I even care? I have ~30-40k gold to blow, and a feat I can set on fire if I have to.

Use a ranged weapon of any kind. Once something leaves your hands, it stops blinking, and reverts to its plane of origin. So while you can't attack an ethereal opponent with a bow or an acid flask while blinking, you also don't suffer a miss chance against corporeal opponents in the same situation.

-Username17

[erik]

Isn't there a weapon property or something that let's you hit even when ethereal? I believe it was intended to mostly be used when material you can hit ethereal objects, but worked both ways so it was good for using while blinking.

I'll hafta rifle through my books...

[Ravengm]

I hadn't even thought about ranged combat, since I was trying to avoid Halfling Hurler-esque cheese and this is my first time past level 5 as a Rogue. That might have to happen.

I tried rifling through for an enhancement that ignored etheriality, but no dice from what I found. The best I could find to ignore miss chances was Illusion Bane, but that won't work for more than one reason.

[Username17]

I hadn't even thought about ranged combat, since I was trying to avoid Halfling Hurler-esque cheese and this is my first time past level 5 as a Rogue. That might have to happen.

I tried rifling through for an enhancement that ignored etheriality, but no dice from what I found.

Ghost Touch items conceptually would work, but do not literally specify that they do. Discuss it with your MC, because it's one of those parts of the rules that aren't as comprehensive as you'd hope.

-Username17

[Ravengm]

Ghost Touch items conceptually would work, but do not literally specify that they do. Discuss it with your MC, because it's one of those parts of the rules that aren't as comprehensive as you'd hope.

-Username17

I tried that argument, but it wasn't in my favor, unfortunately. The ruling was that incorporeal and ethereal creatures don't overlap (except with the edge-case of ghosts and the like).

[erik]

Gah. My rifling is nearly complete and it turns out I misremembered some stuff and the rest was something of a disappointment.

I thought Ghost Strike let you hit ethereal, but nay. It is still nice enhancement for rogues in their golfbag of weapons.

There is a Force weapon enhancement in the Magic Item Compendium... but it only works on projectile weapons, turning the ammo into force effects. Ugh. So close!

In theory you might be able to swing the Blade of Force reserve feat [needs 3rd level spells, so definitely does not work for your character]... but it is ass, and on top of it all, a mean DM could still pick some nits. It could be argued that it only helps hit incorporeal since it notes that specifically, and despite the feat's name and description it does not explicitly change your damage into force damage. They really went through a lot of trouble to avoid making that feat useful.

Sowwy.


[edit: and in re-reading the SRD entry on Etherealness, it sounds like doing force damage is actually still no help so I was barking up the wrong tree trying to find those sorts of avenues (like Rings of Force Armor from the MIC)

A force effect originating on the Material Plane extends onto the Ethereal Plane, so that a wall of force blocks an ethereal creature, and a magic missile can strike one (provided the spellcaster can see the ethereal target). Gaze effects and abjurations also extend from the Material Plane to the Ethereal Plane. None of these effects extend from the Ethereal Plane to the Material Plane.

Boooooo.



Lastly, there's always Greater Blink (Spell Compendium).
5th level spell that has a 0% miss chance for the user as you have greater control over the blinking.

[hogarth]

Once something leaves your hands, it stops blinking, and reverts to its plane of origin.

I can't find this in the SRD's description of the Blink spell. Is it from somewhere else?

I always figured that Blink was a handy way to hide stuff on the Ethereal plane, but Frank's rule would kill that idea.

[TarkisFlux]

It's the standard "if you drop it, the magic stops working on it" line that isn't actually in the general SRD rules (though it may be in a book somewhere I'm not aware of), but shows up for a lot of spells (Invis, Enlarge Person, etc.). It is not present in the Blink description unfortunately, so it's not a trivial thing to get some of the more literal MCs to go along with, but it's a really easy inference to make in general.

And if they don't go along with the inference, you get to ask questions about what happens to things you pick up after you cast the spell and if you can interact with anything in the material plane without the 20%. And then abuse that somehow instead. But you don't get to leave things on the ethereal, since a literal reading would just make them blink after they left your hands until the spell expired and they returned to the material just like you.

[hogarth]

It's the standard "if you drop it, the magic stops working on it" line that isn't actually in the general SRD rules [..]

I agree with that general guideline. My train of thought is that once you drop something on the ethereal plane, nothing magical happens to it as soon as it leaves your hand, i.e. it stays on the Ethereal Plane since there's no magic to return it to the original plane.

Similarly, I figured that an item dropped during the duration of Shadow Walk would stay on the Plane of Shadow.

[Manxome]

It's the standard "if you drop it, the magic stops working on it" line that isn't actually in the general SRD rules [..]

I agree with that general guideline. My train of thought is that once you drop something on the ethereal plane, nothing magical happens to it as soon as it leaves your hand, i.e. it stays on the Ethereal Plane since there's no magic to return it to the original plane.

By that reasoning, a Dispel Magic while you're blinking onto the Ethereal Plane will leave you there permanently?

You could also pick up party members and drop them on the Ethereal Plane, and probably win a few fights by grabbing opponents and then leaving them stranded there.

[hogarth]

By that reasoning, a Dispel Magic while you're blinking onto the Ethereal Plane will leave you there permanently?

If an ethereal creature successfully cast Dispel Magic on you, yes.

You could also pick up party members and drop them on the Ethereal Plane, and probably win a few fights by grabbing opponents and then leaving them stranded there.

I'm pretty sure you can't extend a "Personal" range spell to another creature just by picking them up.

[erik]

By that reasoning, a Dispel Magic while you're blinking onto the Ethereal Plane will leave you there permanently?

If an ethereal creature successfully cast Dispel Magic on you, yes.

Abjurations can target creatures on the ethereal plane from the material, but not vice-versa.

[Quantumboost]

If an ethereal creature successfully cast Dispel Magic on you, yes.

Abjurations can target creatures on the ethereal plane from the material, but not vice-versa.

Er... when you have the Blink spell's effect on you, you're randomly moving between the Material Plane and the Ethereal Plane. The Ethereal creature can just cast the spell on you while you're on the Ethereal.

[erik]

If an ethereal creature successfully cast Dispel Magic on you, yes.

Abjurations can target creatures on the ethereal plane from the material, but not vice-versa.

Er... when you have the Blink spell's effect on you, you're randomly moving between the Material Plane and the Ethereal Plane. The Ethereal creature can just cast the spell on you while you're on the Ethereal.

With a 50% failure chance since their ethereally based abjuration won't effect anything on the material plane.

[Pariah Dog]

There is an item in the MIC Gauntlets of Infinite Javelins or something like that. They let you create a +1 javelin out of pure force as a free action that lasts for 1 attack or turn. See if your DM will et you rework them into throwing another weapons. As they are made of pure force (items description) they should hit normal and ethereal. Consult your MC. Results may vary.

[ubernoob]

There is an item in the MIC Gauntlets of Infinite Javelins or something like that. They let you create a +1 javelin out of pure force as a free action that lasts for 1 attack or turn. See if your DM will et you rework them into throwing another weapons. As they are made of pure force (items description) they should hit normal and ethereal. Consult your MC. Results may vary.

Doesn't work, unfortunately.

A force effect originating on the Material Plane extends onto the Ethereal Plane, so that a wall of force blocks an ethereal creature, and a magic missile can strike one (provided the spellcaster can see the ethereal target). Gaze effects and abjurations also extend from the Material Plane to the Ethereal Plane. None of these effects extend from the Ethereal Plane to the Material Plane.

[Username17]

But of course, it would be a thrown weapon, and would work just like any other thrown weapon would. The fact that it's a Force Effect would allow you to hit Ethereal opponents with it, which thrown weapons normally would not do.

-Username17