Shadowrun 4e questions

[Lethe]

Hello, everyone. Some friends and I recently started up a Shadowrun 4e game, and we had some rules questions. A couple people have played Shadowrun before, but we're all new to 4e. Having read a bunch of the Shadowrun-related threads here, this seemed like the best place to ask. I apologize if any of these are obvious or already answered; I've looked around in the rulebooks, the official FAQ, and searched these forums, but haven't had any luck.

Do any Adept Powers leave an astral signature? If so, which, and how long do they last, not having a Force level? (Since Adepts can take Astral Chameleon/Astral Beacon.)

When erasing an Astral Signature, is it an all-or-nothing deal (e.g., if you spend 2 Complex Actions on erasing a Force 5 spell's signature, then have to run away, it does nothing because you didn't finish)? Or does each Complex Action reduce the signature's duration by 1 hour?

Is there any type of resistance test against Concealment, or does it just reduce dice pools to be perceived, no questions asked?

Do Active Area Detection spells like Detect Life automatically try to get past mana barriers within range, and thus alert their owners?

Does Engulf's description of "victims may not move" just mean no walking/running around (rooted in place), but you can look/aim/fire/cast/etc.?

A couple questions regarding Frank Trollman's house rules:

For recoil, do the strength minimum increases from bursts add up over the course of the Action Phase like they do in the base rules? So firing a Short Burst then a Long Burst would increase STR minimum by 1 at the time of the Short Burst, and a total of 3 at the time of the Long Burst (1 from Short Burst + 2 from Long Burst)?

It says that the Quick Draw adept power no longer exists, since it doesn't add anything. But doesn't it allow you to quick draw weapons you couldn't normally (stuff bigger than pistols), and thus get an extra shot in the current Initiative Pass, since you don't have to spend a Simple Action to Ready Weapon? Plus, the target number for quick drawing with the adept power is lower than the normal quick draw rules. The only other way I see to draw and fire large weapons (firing once if Complex Action, twice if Simple Action) in one IP is taking a level of Krav Maga to make Ready Weapon a Free Action.

[Username17]

Do any Adept Powers leave an astral signature? If so, which, and how long do they last, not having a Force level? (Since Adepts can take Astral Chameleon/Astral Beacon.)

Strict reading: no they don't. Adept powers are neither spells nor spirit powers and do not leave an astral signature of any kind. Extra flavor credit: people in the fiction manage on several occasions to identify a killing hands wound with astral perception. I would suggest that things that have been changed with adept powers (usually meaning "broken by an adept power") would be detectable as having had that happen via the high assensing results that let you determine "other stuff". But you still aren't going to be able to track the adept down, because it's not a proper signature in the rules sense.

When erasing an Astral Signature, is it an all-or-nothing deal (e.g., if you spend 2 Complex Actions on erasing a Force 5 spell's signature, then have to run away, it does nothing because you didn't finish)? Or does each Complex Action reduce the signature's duration by 1 hour?

By the rules, I think it's all or nothing.

Is there any type of resistance test against Concealment, or does it just reduce dice pools to be perceived, no questions asked?

It only affects perception tests, not assensing tests. Also, it's a high force effect, so if you camp an astral observer around, the target glows like Reno. Then again, if you just get yourself a big perception bonus, the dicepool penalty doesn't matter that much.

Do Active Area Detection spells like Detect Life automatically try to get past mana barriers within range, and thus alert their owners?

That's a little complicated. The short answer is "Yes." Any active area spell will push on any barrier it is brought into contact with. But the more complete answer is that spells like Detect Life are range touch. They give a super sense to a single target, and the only area is the target. The area they detect from is something they detect from passively.

Does Engulf's description of "victims may not move" just mean no walking/running around (rooted in place), but you can look/aim/fire/cast/etc.?

You can struggle enough to make unarmed combat tests to escape. You're both grappled and on fire, which is bad place to be. But you could still pull a trigger if you wanted, you're just at severe dicepool penalties.

For recoil, do the strength minimum increases from bursts add up over the course of the Action Phase like they do in the base rules? So firing a Short Burst then a Long Burst would increase STR minimum by 1 at the time of the Short Burst, and a total of 3 at the time of the Long Burst (1 from Short Burst + 2 from Long Burst)?

No. But penalties for having exceeded the strength requirements will stack.

-Username17

[Lethe]

Thanks for the quick and helpful answers, Frank. After our current arc is over, my gaming group is planning on switching over to your house rules.

[RiotGearEpsilon]

As long as we're tossing out questions, I need some guidance on how to handle a situation I intend to bring up as often as possible with my street samurai:

I have an Ingram Smartgun, which is wired directly in to my cybereyes via a fiberoptic link to my Datajack. I stick it around the corner, without exposing the rest of me, and attempt to shoot a guy with it while aiming via the smartgun cam. How does this affect my die pool and/or recoil compensation?

[TheFlatline]

If memory serves, a smartgun imposes a crosshair on your vision where your gun is pointing at. It's not a mini-cam field of view type of thing, though I suppose it easily could be.

[RiotGearEpsilon]

It might be a new thing in 4e, but using it to shoot around corners is one of the explicit uses described in the equipment section.

[kzt]

3e and 4e smartguns work differently. 3e required a bunch of embeded body sensors so it can determine where the gun is pointed, 4e uses a camera on the gun to see where it is pointed. I'd argue that 4e makes more sense.

Shooting around a corner means that your wrist is absorbing the recoil force, which in real life means it will climb like mad on autofire, as little guns rely on the shooter to absorb the recoil via the stock to the shoulder and the supporting hand pulling down on the muzzle end. Without that it's totally uncontrollable.

There is a film somewhere of a little kid shooting a mini-uzi on full auto, during which he manages to get killed by shooting himself in the head. That's about what would happen.

[RiotGearEpsilon]

Let's assume I'm not an idiot, and either have recoil compensation out the wing-wang or plan to fire my shots in semi-automatic mode, or otherwise don't intend to raise the penalty to 'too fucking high'. What sort of die penalty would I be looking at to my attacks? -2? -4?

[Username17]

If you're literally shooting around a corner, you should be able to brace the weapon on the corner.

Cameras in SR are really good, and camera assisted targeting is done at no penalty.

-Username17

[RiotGearEpsilon]

Flippin' sweet.

[Lokathor]

Question: Can all spirits fly while materialized, and only "(flying)" spirits get the flying skill to go faster while doing it? or can they only fly while astral and then they drop to the ground like anything else when they materialize? or what? What's the story on that?

[Username17]

Question: Can all spirits fly while materialized, and only "(flying)" spirits get the flying skill to go faster while doing it? or can they only fly while astral and then they drop to the ground like anything else when they materialize? or what? What's the story on that?

All spirits have the ability to "walk" in any direction, defying gravity if need be to do it. Spirits who can fly at some specified speed can travel in that manner at th specified (generally very fast) speed. But any spirit can simply walk out into empty space and "stand" on open air.

-Username17

[Orion]

where does it say that?

[Lokathor]

...Yeah... uh, if all spirits can walk even into the air, then why the hell do some of them have flying and some of them not? I think that's the major confusion.

[Username17]

where does it say that?

I don't actually remember where it says that in 4th edition. It's always been that way though, even in 1st edition. Spirits move like astral forms, because they are astral forms. The only reason for them to put their "feet" on the ground is politeness.

-Username17

[Murtak]

But Hellhounds are astral forms too, and they don't fly.

[unnamednpc]

Hellhounds are dual natured, so they constantly perceiveastrally, and can interact with the astral world (i.e. maim your astral ass).
That gives them exactly the same innate ability to fly as any astrally perceiving magician. Which is none. Obviously.

[Quantumboost]

"Astral Form" is an actual ability that some critters have. Earth Elementals have it. Hellhounds do not.

[Orion]

But Frank, a manifested spirit can't fly at supersonic astral speeds. They fly at pretty mundane speed, listed in their block. If they fly. It seems pretty clear that they move like a creature, not like an astral form.

[Lokathor]

Well ignoring the spirit issue for a moment, because that can easily be houseruled either way and both ways make enough sense, I have another question that isn't quite a rules question. It's a cultural question.

Frank, in the Tomes (Tome of War, I think), you make a big deal about how DnD's honor code is quite specifically not the real world (and mostly modern) honor code that we think of that developed in western Europe. What would a similar "honor code" look like in the strange insanityscape of shadowrun? After the awakening, two crashes, absurd levels of globalization, and the collapse of most major governments, people must view battle at least somewhat differently. Is it just modern honor with more things added on top? Are there any things that we'd call dishonorable that they'd not think twice about? Obviously in light of alt.War a question like this is a little different if you're a Naga (for example) than if you're a metahuman, but assume that we're just talking about metahumans and similar for the moment.

(EDIT: inserted a "not" where it should have been. Don't post with the flue folks)

[CatharzGodfoot]

But Frank, a manifested spirit can't fly at supersonic astral speeds. They fly at pretty mundane speed, listed in their block. If they fly. It seems pretty clear that they move like a creature, not like an astral form.

Spirits that fly have the flight power, which implies magical flight. They also have only flight movement, which implies that they are always flying.

[kzt]

where does it say that?

Page 91 of the companion.

It may well say it somewhere else too, but that is where I know it says it.

[Username17]

where does it say that?

Page 91 of the companion.

It may well say it somewhere else too, but that is where I know it says it.

The companion is a terribad book, but yeah. The first time that information was made available was in 1989. It's literally never been any other way. Materialized spirits can walk "up" or "down" as easily as they can walk forward or back.

Frank, in the Tomes (Tome of War, I think), you make a big deal about how DnD's honor code is quite specifically the real world (and mostly modern) honor code that we think of that developed in western Europe. What would a similar "honor code" look like in the strange insanityscape of shadowrun? After the awakening, two crashes, absurd levels of globalization, and the collapse of most major governments, people must view battle at least somewhat differently. Is it just modern honor with more things added on top? Are there any things that we'd call dishonorable that they'd not think twice about? Obviously in light of alt.War a question like this is a little different if you're a Naga (for example) than if you're a metahuman, but assume that we're just talking about metahumans and similar for the moment.

That's an interesting question, and the answer is schizophrenic. Power in SR's world is multi-polar. There isn't an Ameri-Euro consensus that dominates global might. It's not even a dipolar scenario where people ca be dominated by the culture of America or the Soviets. There is Aztec honor and Japanese honor and Islamic honor, and all of these are important internationally because Aztlan, Imperial Japan, and the Caliphate are all A-ranked world powers with their own spheres of influence.

So people influenced by Aztec thought will see using lethal force against civilians as a bad thing. But they won't see anything wrong with using less-lethal force on those same civilians and then publicly executing them. Killing civilians is a dishonorable thing because it denies them the chance for last rites and deprives their life of meaning. Not because there is anything wrong with killing people who are no threat.

People who are influenced by thought from the Caliphate get upset at the kinds of things Wahabis get upset about. So they freak out about men showing their arm hair, people turning their back on brotherhood of believers, and adultery. But killing powerless people, even family members, isn't a big deal if those powerless people have done something that they get upset about (like wearing pants).

Shadowrun has a world with many cultures in it. Not a single multicultural society, but literally multiple cultures that are totally alien to each other. People simply don't agree on what makes killing OK, and in the Shadowrun future the different points of view are backed by enough firepower and tech that it's pretty pointless to pretend that they are just backward savages who will grow out of it and adopt the social norms of a dominant global culture.

-Username17

[fectin]

You didn't like the trite answer, "using shadowrunners is dishonorable"?

[virgil]

I was contemplating various house-rules for SR, but I wanted opinions on the long-term effects. How important are strength minimums for weapons, as in, what would happen if I got rid of them for weapons? Doing so, I'd likely fold Strength into Body as one stat.