Brilliant Gameologists and horrible advice

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 5:02 am

Wow.
"You may roll crap, but don't worry, you'll get something cool later on."
http://brilliantgameologists.com/mythofg/
...did they seriously imply that DMs should hand unlucky players special shit to make up for it? I am a crap roller, and I find that offensive...

Bobikus · Post by **Bobikus** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 5:13 am

Didn't watch it or anything, but I don't see how "As long as they had fun, you GM’ed it right" is a myth.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 5:15 am

yeah, same. Though they seem to be saying "having fun doesn't mean that gaming or GM'ing happened. You just had fun." Like if you all got together, and then, I don't know, the DM's sister and her friends came in and blew everyone, and everyone had a great time, gaming didn't really happen...

Bobikus · Post by **Bobikus** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 5:17 am

Sounds like just a null-argument or semantics there.

PhoneLobster · Post by **PhoneLobster** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 5:19 am

Look these are guys who used to be meat and bread members of WOTC forums.

You are lucky their game advice isn't "Hit your players with a brick until they are happy about their poor rolls. No really, I mean it, actually hit them, with a brick."

I've been over there, I've tried a bit of dialogue with them. I talked with them about d20 modern. They don't know the rules of the game, they think it's awesome, but they don't ACTUALLY know how it works.

THEY are the guys who in defense of d20modern told me "well it's outdated now anyway, all the d20modern fans are playing E20!"

Yeah, e20 a game as yet STILL not released. The kind of people on Gameologists are the sort to defend a game they don't know the rules of with a game that NO ONE knows the rules of because it ISN'T EVEN A GAME YET, but they DON'T EVEN SEEM TO KNOW IT ISN'T A GAME YET.

Oh and their forumites abused me personally and consistently for being an outsider. No really. I actually politely discussed actual rules and they came back with "Fuck you you disturbing stranger with your strange information! Everything you post is nothing but personal attacks!". Then their forum moderators stepped in and sided with the fuckers spewing personal abuse at me.

So yeah. Screw that place they are a fucking circle jerking idiot brigade, just take everything Roy ever says about the Pathfinder mobs and apply it to Gameologists, it applies just as well.

But what did you expect with such a pretentious name and ridiculously inflated idea of themselves? Remember that the people who founded that place are the same ones from the ye-olde Wish and The Word incident. It wasn't ever gonna be good. I have no idea why I ever bothered hoping they might be semi-reasonable or even interesting.

Bobikus · Post by **Bobikus** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 5:21 am

Yeah, the name alone makes it sound like they take themselves far too seriously.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 5:22 am

I remember that thread... oof.

I don't know, I find the podcasts entertaining, overall, there are just some things where I really disagree. They just defended the term game master with "it's the original term, it's what he's called, get over it." Now, I don't really get worked up over the term GM, but I think it's fine to use some other terms.

They really don't, in the podcasts, anyway, it's a joke, but they do seem to kind of wander back and forth over the line on whether gaming is serious business. Though I think mostly it's "we're here to game, if people just want to hang out, that's great, but didn't we plan on gaming? There's a story I'd like to progress, and Bill wants to get some screen time for his character, so are we going to do this or just watch tv with some beers?"

BearsAreBrown · Post by **BearsAreBrown** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 5:25 am

I've been a member of BG for a couple years now and don't know of a single person on the boards who cares about Meg or the podcast.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 5:27 am

This is the first time I've listened to the podcast in the last...two years, I think. It's popcorn for the ears.

...oh god, more tangeants...
...I really didn't need to know about their sexual role preferences....

PhoneLobster · Post by **PhoneLobster** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 5:33 am

BearsAreBrown wrote:@PhoneLobster, if you're who I think you are

I'm me, I posted there under the same handle I use here. There shouldn't be any confusion.

BearsAreBrown · Post by **BearsAreBrown** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 5:38 am

@PhoneLobster, my bad then. Misunderstood the situation.

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 6:14 am

Brilliant Gameologists is cancer. Don't post there anymore because I hate the mods. Podcasts often filled with shitty advice. This thread locked soon.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 6:20 am

eh, yeah, since it veered into "oh god that forum is horrible." territory. Less so if we veer away from that and talk about bad advice or something

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 6:45 am

How about "never kick a player out." Fuck that noise.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:17 am

Psychic Robot wrote:How about "never kick a player out." Fuck that noise.

Yeah. I do believe it should generally be a last resort, but sometimes it's necessary. And sometimes the problem is so big, that the last resort is the first resort.

TheFlatline · Post by **TheFlatline** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:50 am

I... couldn't even be bothered to launch the stupid thing. Just looking at the list makes me want to smash something resistant across their teeth.

PhoneLobster · Post by **PhoneLobster** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:52 am

I didn't look at that list. Now I have.

Wow.

Maybe they need to read my good GMing advice thread.

Makes me feel better about my good GMing advice thread though, I mean hey, I may be some guy posting some thread in some obscure corner of nowhere that no one ever looks at. But hey, as far as I can tell my thread is god damn gold compared to that list.

I mean it's not like I listened to it, maybe they have a thing for ironic titles. But seriously a god damn pod cast of some self appointed brilliant gameologists babbling crap? What aren't they good enough for readable TEXT like every other "some guy on the internet" gaming geek?

ScottS · Post by **ScottS** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:03 pm

Psychic Robot wrote:How about "never kick a player out." Fuck that noise.

They're pretty much assuming that everyone you game with is a bro IRL. So if you generally get into campaigns via email lists, FLGS ad boards etc., play with a bunch of people you've never met, and are more concerned about getting your game on rather than nurturing a mutually-supportive geek social cluster or whatever, then yes their advice sucks and is irrelevant.

That podcast didn't acknowledge the reality of either

a) people who become dicks at the RPG table because they get the chance to do stuff in-game that they can't get away with in MundaneWorld (semi-recent examples I've had to deal with were "tries-to-get-people-in-the-party-killed-without-directly-PKing-them" guy, and "makes-every-character-as-annoying-as-possible-to-slow-down-the-game-because-he-doesn't-like-combat" guy, both of those in standard fantasy party-based RPGs)

or b) gaming groups that differ even moderately from their own circle-of-friends dealie (which points to a larger problem with their topics; stuff like the don't-kick-people-out episodes is them pretty much hashing out personal shit on-air, so again not particularly useful or analytical)

Roy · Post by **Roy** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:55 pm

PhoneLobster wrote:So yeah. Screw that place they are a fucking circle jerking idiot brigade, just take everything Roy ever says about the Pathfinder mobs and apply it to Gameologists, it applies just as well.

The only ones over there that are Paizil like are the ones in charge, and a handful of others. There are however a lot of fuckwits.

For example.

Fuckwit army: Hey, let's beg someone to help us, and then deliberately go out of our way to tick him off so he'll refuse to help us, and then blame him as if he is wrong for not wanting to help a bunch of fuckwits!

So no, not as bad as the Paizils, but very quickly getting there.

And yes, no one really gives a fuck about their podcasts and the terrible advice therein. I tried listening to it once. It Dispelled my Sheltered Vitality, and then did 3d6 damage to all mental stats. So fuck that noise. The only people who care about those are the ones who make it (and have to give advice like that, because they're terrible players that get booted from games easily), and a handful of other people.

Hieronymous Rex · Post by **Hieronymous Rex** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:05 pm

Prak_Anima wrote:I don't know, I find the podcasts entertaining, overall, there are just some things where I really disagree. They just defended the term game master with "it's the original term, it's what he's called, get over it." Now, I don't really get worked up over the term GM, but I think it's fine to use some other terms.

Wait, podcasts about what, E20 or gaming in general? Because if it's gaming in general then they are filthy liars.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:13 pm

Hieronymous Rex wrote:
Prak_Anima wrote:I don't know, I find the podcasts entertaining, overall, there are just some things where I really disagree. They just defended the term game master with "it's the original term, it's what he's called, get over it." Now, I don't really get worked up over the term GM, but I think it's fine to use some other terms.
Wait, podcasts about what, E20 or gaming in general? Because if it's gaming in general then they are filthy liars.

It's gaming in general, and it's not that they are filthy liars, it's that they are actually stupid, and make a bunch of pronouncements about shit they actually know nothing about.

TheFlatline · Post by **TheFlatline** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:31 pm

ScottS wrote:
Psychic Robot wrote:How about "never kick a player out." Fuck that noise.
They're pretty much assuming that everyone you game with is a bro IRL. So if you generally get into campaigns via email lists, FLGS ad boards etc., play with a bunch of people you've never met, and are more concerned about getting your game on rather than nurturing a mutually-supportive geek social cluster or whatever, then yes their advice sucks and is irrelevant.

That podcast didn't acknowledge the reality of either

a) people who become dicks at the RPG table because they get the chance to do stuff in-game that they can't get away with in MundaneWorld (semi-recent examples I've had to deal with were "tries-to-get-people-in-the-party-killed-without-directly-PKing-them" guy, and "makes-every-character-as-annoying-as-possible-to-slow-down-the-game-because-he-doesn't-like-combat" guy, both of those in standard fantasy party-based RPGs)

or b) gaming groups that differ even moderately from their own circle-of-friends dealie (which points to a larger problem with their topics; stuff like the don't-kick-people-out episodes is them pretty much hashing out personal shit on-air, so again not particularly useful or analytical)

No, even if all your gamer group are good friends, the nuclear option is always on the table for someone who's being enough of a shit. That's like saying if you and some friends go out to dinner on Friday and one friend pisses in everyone's dinner because he thinks it's funny, you must never kick him out and not have him come back.

I don't even care what the justification for that argument is. At this point in my life, I'm too fucking old to have to deal with people having tantrums. I'd rather not game than *have* to include such a person in my group. Maybe "try not to kick anyone out" is a good piece of advice when you're in middle school or high school, but if you're an adult of any age and duration, no that option is perfectly on the table.

I've culled people who are disruptive from games many times. Usually by just not inviting them back, but occasionally I've had it out with them. It's not an option I particularly like, but sometimes the game simply won't continue if that person is a part of it.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:36 pm

Oddly enough I'm not friends with anyone who would piss in everyone's dinner or similar antics. I don't befriend people who I think are going to shit me up the wall.

TheFlatline · Post by **TheFlatline** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:46 pm

Koumei wrote:Oddly enough I'm not friends with anyone who would piss in everyone's dinner or similar antics. I don't befriend people who I think are going to shit me up the wall.

Pretty much.

Every "never kick anyone out" argument I've heard seems like it's aimed at people in high school or middle school, where you're in a pressure cooker of an environment, grudges flare because of the pubescent amounts of hormones flying around, and getting a serious fucking hatred for someone you have to see for 2 or 3 hours every day, 5 days a week, would become a big issue.

I also suppose it'd become an issue if you were cooped up with the same like 8 people you interacted with every day of your life for a really, really long time, such as if 8 of you decided to visit every truck stop in the US in a tour bus or something like that. Then yeah, try not to kick people out of your game.

And prison inmates. Yeah. Getting stabbed with a shiv made out of a toothbrush doesn't sound like it's worth trying to kick Bubba vonButtlovin out of your gaming party.

TheFlatline · Post by **TheFlatline** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:53 pm

Prak_Anima wrote:Wow.
"You may roll crap, but don't worry, you'll get something cool later on."
http://brilliantgameologists.com/mythofg/
...did they seriously imply that DMs should hand unlucky players special shit to make up for it? I am a crap roller, and I find that offensive...

Back to the original point here.

Today's education system in the US tends to... how should I say this... make everyone feel special. There was a movement to stop using red ink on tests because red is associated with being wrong, and being wrong stressed the children out.

If you lose dead last they give you a trophy (just like everyone else got) and say you were the last winner in the group. You don't get an F, you get told you are performing "minimally exceptional".

I've even read an article or two where college graduates from real universities with real degrees go get a job in the real world, and the first time they cock things up miserably and the boss screams at them they have a complete nervous breakdown because they've never encountered failure, and especially catastrophic failure, and thus don't know how to proceed. As a result, shrinks and therapists are having to teach grown men and women in their mid 20's how to deal with failure, and how to work through it. Which boggles my mind.

I imagine there are people who freak out and hyperventilate if they roll like shit too many times in a row, and need the short bus award to get them feeling special again. Thank god I've never had to deal with someone like that in my gaming efforts.

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Brilliant Gameologists and horrible advice

Brilliant Gameologists and horrible advice

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