Interparty balance: Required or not?

[Psychic Robot]

shitty game design especially when you needed GBAs for everyone to participate

[hyzmarca]

No it's not fine. It's ass. If that nuke is applicable to the majority of the game's combat, then there's no point in being anything other than the character that can nuke.

You're assuming that combat is all that matters. Thorg the Annihilator might be able to slaughter orc hoards with a wave us is arm, but a blood-spattered maniac isn't going to go down well at the royal cocktail party.

Which is to say that the game should not be all about combat.

[Desdan_Mervolam]

shitty game design especially when you needed GBAs for everyone to participate

FFCC had problems, the use of GBAs wasn't one of them. When you're playing a cooperative video game, having your inventory screen and actions menu somewhere where they won't cover the screen and slow everything down is not a bad thing, especially if it only requires something your friends almost certainly already have anyway. Seriously, there aren't many people who are going to agree to play an 80+ hour cooperative Final Fantasy game with you who don't already have a GBA, one of the most popular and prolific consumer electronics of the early 2000's. Yeah, you need propriatary cables, but that's really it.

[Fuchs]

GBA?

[Chamomile]

GameBoy Advance.

[Fuchs]

Ah, thanks.

[Leress]

The GBA came out in 2001.

[Desdan_Mervolam]

The GBA came out in 2001.

Alright, fixed. Doesn't change my point any.

[Count Arioch the 28th]

shitty game design especially when you needed GBAs for everyone to participate

http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=86

[Desdan_Mervolam]

Count: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2003/8/25/

[Psychic Robot]

tycho is a long-winded [EDITED] who is desperate to sound more intelligent than he is

[Guyr Adamantine]

tycho is a long-winded [EDITED] who is desperate to sound more intelligent than he is

[TheFlatline]

No it's not fine. It's ass. If that nuke is applicable to the majority of the game's combat, then there's no point in being anything other than the character that can nuke.

You're assuming that combat is all that matters. Thorg the Annihilator might be able to slaughter orc hoards with a wave us is arm, but a blood-spattered maniac isn't going to go down well at the royal cocktail party.

Which is to say that the game should be all about combat.

The original post was concerning D&D. Which is 90% combat. So let's not move the goal posts here without explicitly stating so in advance.

And in your above example, sure BMX Bandit could do some tricks and entertain the audience, but Angel Summoner could just summon a horde of angels to suck everyone off. Which by definition should be heavenly.

And in D&D terms, how is a mage less adept at social encounters than the fighter?

[jadagul]

It cuts your speed roughly in half and means you can't take any actions, but someone has to do it.

You still have the option of putting the bucket down and helping out. It's what I always did.

Yeah, ways around it. Still dumb. But I never had to figure them out because in general I don't play multiplayer video games--video games are what I do when I don't want to deal with people. I'm playing the game now because I picked it up used for like seven bucks.

[Desdan_Mervolam]

tycho is a long-winded [EDITED] who is desperate to sound more intelligent than he is

Maybe, but at least he has a point. Needing Gameboys to play coop FFCC does not mean you have to BUY Gameboys to play coop FFCC any more than the game requiring a TV means you need to run out and buy a new TV to play it on. You seriously have that shit already.

Scott Ramsoomair has nothing but a hate-boner for Nintendo and a total lack of ability to spin his hate into anything funny. Seriously. His Mr Potomoto character is all about how supposedly Nintendo's attempts at innovation are only transparent attempts to force you to spend more money. That's bullshit. If you think Nintendo's attempts at innovation are not successful or don't result in any kind of workable system, just fucking SAY THAT. A lot of people did, and still do, as a matter of fact. It's a valid complaint. Nintendo spent the first two or three years of the current console generation of consoles eating XBox and PS3's lunch and this had as much to do with them figuring out that if you came up with an interesting control system, you could sacrifice on hardware power to bring your console in at a fraction of your competitor's prices and tap a whole new market of gamers that aren't impressed with shiny graphics pasted onto a horrible games.* If Nintendo and Square wanted to fleece their customers over FFCC, they wouldn't have used something that had more units sold than the damned Gamecube, they would have come up with an entirely new peripheral that you'd have to buy. They could have done that so easily it's not even funny.

*The fact that many Wii games, are in fact horrible on their own merits is an irony that isn't lost on me, but it's also irrelevant to the argument.

Edit: Added Quote

[Draco_Argentum]

tycho is a long-winded [EDITED] who is desperate to sound more intelligent than he is

I think everyone here owes you one internet for posting that.

[Count Arioch the 28th]

Count: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2003/8/25/

If I ever get enough money, I'm moving to Nevada and renting three hookers to play video games with me. That'd be pretty cool, at least when I get enough money to make it happen...

[hyzmarca]

The original post was concerning D&D. Which is 90% combat. So let's not move the goal posts here without explicitly stating so in advance

.

It's perfectly plausible to play a D&D game that doesn't have any combat.

And in your above example, sure BMX Bandit could do some tricks and entertain the audience, but Angel Summoner could just summon a horde of angels to suck everyone off. Which by definition should be heavenly.

And in D&D terms, how is a mage less adept at social encounters than the fighter?

The fact that the mage is able to replace everyone is a well-established problem as is the fact that fighters tend to suck. Those are balance problems.

[Chamomile]

It's perfectly plausible to play a D&D game that doesn't have any combat.

I suppose with a sufficiently flexible use of the term "plausible" this might be true...

[Swordslinger]

It's perfectly plausible to play a D&D game that doesn't have any combat.

Possible, yes. Plausible, no. I don't think any gaming group would pick the D&D system if they were not intending on having any combat, given the D&D social set up is terrible.

[shadzar]

The fact that the mage is able to replace everyone is a well-established problem as is the fact that fighters tend to suck. Those are balance problems.

That is when the mage goes it alone,a nd se how much of a game you have...it doesnt work that way...

It's perfectly plausible to play a D&D game that doesn't have any combat.

Possible, yes. Plausible, no. I don't think any gaming group would pick the D&D system if they were not intending on having any combat, given the D&D social set up is terrible.

The social setup is based on the players social relations...

if the players dont get along, then maybe they shouldnt be playing together in the first place?

[ckafrica]

Count: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2003/8/25/

If I ever get enough money, I'm moving to Nevada and renting three hookers to play video games with me. That'd be pretty cool, at least when I get enough money to make it happen...

That would be a very reasonably obtainable ambition over here in the Nam.

[Count Arioch the 28th]

Count: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2003/8/25/

If I ever get enough money, I'm moving to Nevada and renting three hookers to play video games with me. That'd be pretty cool, at least when I get enough money to make it happen...

That would be a very reasonably obtainable ambition over here in the Nam.

Eh, problems with that. Also, I don't like heat.