5e isnt even D&D....

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shadzar
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Post by shadzar »

wotmaniac wrote:
CapnTthePirateG wrote:I'm also noticing Mike Mearls was left out of the little "I have no disagreements with..." disclaimer.
Ooh -- I hadn't picked up on that .... interesting.
yeah seems he only liked working with the two...
However, I want to take this time to stress that my differences were not with my fellow designers, Rob Schwalb and Bruce Cordell. I enjoyed every moment of working with them over the past year. I have faith that they'll create a fun game. I'm rooting for them.
speaking of Bruce... new blog

Resilient Heroes
http://community.wizards.com/dndnext/bl ... ent_heroes

havent read it yet, still celebrating Monte no longer working with D&D.
Last edited by shadzar on Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Play the game, not the rules.
Swordslinger wrote:Or fuck it... I'm just going to get weapon specialization in my cock and whip people to death with it. Given all the enemies are total pussies, it seems like the appropriate thing to do.
Lewis Black wrote:If the people of New Zealand want to be part of our world, I believe they should hop off their islands, and push 'em closer.
good read (Note to self Maxus sucks a barrel of cocks.)
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Post by infected slut princess »

I bet Cook initially had high hopes going into the 5e design process. But although he is a pretty bad designer, he was probably smart enough to recognize that Mearls was a fucking unbelievably big sack of dumb shit.

Once Cook realized that the pieces were coming together in such a way that Mearls would ruin ANOTHER edition of D&D, he naturally sought to get himself disassociated from 5e as soon as possible. I mean, WotC was probably paying him a decent amount of money, relatively speaking, so his motivation would have had to be fairly strong.

And it makes sense. Right now he's known as one of the dudes who made 3e, which is a pretty cool game overall. That's a decent reputation to have. It would be forever tarnished if he was attached to Mike Mearls' latest D&D abortion.

The fact that Cook left WotC here because of "differences of opinion" and "drama" makes him at least pretty cool in my book, and way better than Mearls. Mearls probably tried to ostracize him when Cook wasn't going to suck Mearls dick like those other fucking losers Mearls surrounds himself with. I fucking hate Mearls.
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Post by Previn »

"Later editions provide more options, such as the 3rd Edition’s Heal skill. But even with long-term care, each full day’s worth of bed rest provides only 4 hit points for a wounded character. Magic remains the best way to bounce back into the action."

I can see someone missed the "per level" line that's part of healing, and no one else seems to have caught that as part of the comments either. I'm not sure how a 10th level fighter with a +6 con mod and average hp per dice taking 3 days to heal from -9 to full witha dc 15 check is overly slow all things considered.
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Post by shadzar »

previous L&L or PAX East, or something...
We are about 20% done with this 4th version of D&DNext
today...

News on D&D Next
Mike Mearls
http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx ... /20120425a
I am surprised, and frankly saddened, by Monte’s decision to leave the D&D Next design team. I’d like to thank him for his contribution, and we all wish him well. As we close the first phase of the D&D Next project, I’m excited to share with you all what phase 2 has in store.

It is my pleasure to announce that our public playtest for the D&D Next project will commence on May 24th.
Last edited by shadzar on Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
Play the game, not the rules.
Swordslinger wrote:Or fuck it... I'm just going to get weapon specialization in my cock and whip people to death with it. Given all the enemies are total pussies, it seems like the appropriate thing to do.
Lewis Black wrote:If the people of New Zealand want to be part of our world, I believe they should hop off their islands, and push 'em closer.
good read (Note to self Maxus sucks a barrel of cocks.)
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Post by hogarth »

virgil wrote:His leaving 5E like this actually improves my opinion of him. It had been going down as of late because of his lack of producing anything I liked since Arcana Unearthed (Dungeon-A-Day was a big plate of 'meh'), and producing crap like d20 WoD. The system is clearly going even further away from anything I enjoyed, and seeing him separate himself shows a certain level of like-minded disagreement I can stand behind; especially when it's very likely Mearls is at the heart of it.
Considering that Arcana Evolved was just a mediocre rehash of 3E, I doubt that anything he came up with would be an improvement on the eventual shape of 5E.

My guess is that he went through the same thought process that Frank did during the Pathfinder playtest: "All right, the chance to mold an edition of D&D in my image! Oh wait -- they don't really give a shit about 90% of my particular hobbyhorses. Well, fuck that noise."
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Post by CapnTthePirateG »

Yeah, I don't understand why the hell WotC kept Mearls.

Also, I hear the guy they moved over from the Magic department was that department's local moron, according to my Magic-obsessed friend.
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Post by infected slut princess »

If 5e ends up being good I will eat my own shit. The reason I am comfortable saying that is Mike Mearls is so fucking stupid that there is NO WAY anything he is involved in will be good.

The reality is he still has way too much influence on the overall direction of things for 5e. His design credits are paved with garbage. There is no hope. I mean, look at this forum. No one even gives a fuck because they know it will blow. And not just blow, but BLOW ASS.

However, Mearls seems to be good at promoting himself. He's like that idiot you worked with at the office. You know the type. The one whose work was way shittier than yours, but he still got the promotion because he was a masterful bullshitter. I mean how is Mearls not fucking fired from WotC?

D&D should be an earth-shakingly awesome media franchise. It should be big like Pokemon or, uh, something else that is popular. It's earlier editions should NOT be more popular than the latest edition, but that is what WotC has done. So no one gives a fuck except the 4rries, and they are retarded so no one cares what they think except dick-licker Mearls.
Last edited by infected slut princess on Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Aryxbez »

Yeah...even the people I know in my area are either ignorant to its existence, or seem to rather just stick with their edition (be it 3rd or 4th edition). You know its sad when you lose Frank on 5th edition immediately the moment it was announced, pity most of us will follow. I agree it would be nice to when talking to fans of this game, wouldn't have to worry if they're the ignorant type, who think Pathfinder = balanced RPG messiah, and know of the concept that be "Quadratic Wizards Linear Warriors".
What I find wrong w/ 4th edition: "I want to stab dragons the size of a small keep with skin like supple adamantine and command over time and space to death with my longsword in head to head combat, but I want to be totally within realistic capabilities of a real human being!" --Caedrus mocking 4rries

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Post by ModelCitizen »

So, here's what Monte said about leaving WotC:
Last week I decided that I would leave my contract position with Wizards of the Coast. I am no longer working on Dungeons & Dragons, although I may provide occasional consultation in the future. My decision is one based on differences of opinion with the company. However, I want to take this time to stress that my differences were not with my fellow designers, Rob Schwalb and Bruce Cordell. I enjoyed every moment of working with them over the past year. I have faith that they'll create a fun game. I'm rooting for them.
He says the design team was not the problem. If he liked where the rest of the team was going but had some disagreement with the suits, he probably would have said "my differences were not with the 5e team" or something. But his list of people who were not the problem specifically includes Schwaib and Cordell and specifically does not include Mearls.

So uh, I'm done being cynical-but-cautiously-optimistic about 5e and ready to join the rest of you in predicting doom.
Last edited by ModelCitizen on Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:37 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by wotmaniac »

and to stir the pot even more, it looks like 3.5 will be re-printed with errata, available this fall.

I don't even ...
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Post by shadzar »

wotmaniac wrote:and to stir the pot even more, it looks like 3.5 will be re-printed with errata, available this fall.

I don't even ...
i thought it already was in print? did Paizo just go out of business? did d20srd.org lose its domain name?
Play the game, not the rules.
Swordslinger wrote:Or fuck it... I'm just going to get weapon specialization in my cock and whip people to death with it. Given all the enemies are total pussies, it seems like the appropriate thing to do.
Lewis Black wrote:If the people of New Zealand want to be part of our world, I believe they should hop off their islands, and push 'em closer.
good read (Note to self Maxus sucks a barrel of cocks.)
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Post by shadzar »

CapnTthePirateG wrote:Yeah, I don't understand why the hell WotC kept Mearls.
Mearls is like that one guy that rushes to the patent office with someone elses idea, only he has designed it in a way where it is lethal with sharp corner that can stab you and impale you...in a new pillow design.

he doesnt listen to anyone, thinks he can hear 3 word and know the entire rest of the sentence and understand you and what you want. he is as psychotic as Bill S in thinking he is a god of not only RPGs, but D&D just because he was published at least once, and now works with D&D.
Play the game, not the rules.
Swordslinger wrote:Or fuck it... I'm just going to get weapon specialization in my cock and whip people to death with it. Given all the enemies are total pussies, it seems like the appropriate thing to do.
Lewis Black wrote:If the people of New Zealand want to be part of our world, I believe they should hop off their islands, and push 'em closer.
good read (Note to self Maxus sucks a barrel of cocks.)
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Post by ishy »

shadzar wrote:
wotmaniac wrote:and to stir the pot even more, it looks like 3.5 will be re-printed with errata, available this fall.

I don't even ...
i thought it already was in print? did Paizo just go out of business? did d20srd.org lose its domain name?
It isn't in print currently.
Paizo is printing pathfinder which while similiar to 3.5 has many small changes. Imagine if every text in your 2nd edition book was worded differently and littered with mechanical changes some better most worse and some so unclear that you don't know what they are supposed to do or don't even realise that they are there.
d20srd.org is a website not a book, it doesn't include all the rule text and has mistakes in it too.
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Post by koz »

CapnTthePirateG wrote:Yeah, I don't understand why the hell WotC kept Mearls.

Also, I hear the guy they moved over from the Magic department was that department's local moron, according to my Magic-obsessed friend.
Considering Tom LaPille is responsible for a) nuking Modern from orbit and b) wrecking Innistrad along with MaRo fail, yeah, he is a local moron. DnD is a last-chancer division - but then again, I've already said that.
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Post by ModelCitizen »

ishy wrote: d20srd.org is a website not a book, it doesn't include all the rule text and has mistakes in it too.
They're pretty minimal, and a lot of them turn out to be either incorporated errata or mistakes in the real rules. If there's a mistake in real 3e (like lizardfolk attack routines just to pick a random example) then d20srd either has to transcribe the error (which makes it wrong) or try to fix it to the best of their ability (which also makes it wrong).

I don't think the frequency of d20srd errors is high enough to matter. Every time I've ever seen it come up it's been two charoppers having a sperg-off over some rules minutiae. One of them cites source with a link to d20srd, the other one goes "nuh uh d20srd is full of errors" without even checking if the cited page is actually wrong.
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Post by shadzar »

ishy wrote:Imagine if every text in your 2nd edition book was worded differently and littered with mechanical changes some better most worse and some so unclear that you don't know what they are supposed to do or don't even realise that they are there.
they already tried that and called it 3rd Edition D&D. didnt work, thus TETSNBN exists on Dragonsfoot. also Hackmaster exists as licensed to by WotC. they already did it with 2nd editoin twice, so what is wrong with it being done to 3rd?

there is also a larger surplus of 3.x books than 2nd edition and 1st.

the real reason i assume they are printing errata versions of 3.x is to balance out against or decrease sales of the 1st edition reprints.

they will then have 2 "old-school" products in print, one TSR and one WotC while 4th churns to a halt.

sadly they are printing the worst possible books as both of those editions core books were utter trash to read or find anything in.

the fact so many OGL product exist out there means they need 3.5 reprints to compete, and the lack of 2nd edition clone out there, means there is only need for a 1st edition core rule reprint to compete in those markets.

if i had a single trustworthy and knowledge person with copyrights...then i would have had the 2e clone out there when the OGL hit.

also MANY people play with just the SRD, it has been printed and sold as a rulebook, and there is VERY little missing form it to be able to play with.

the smartest thing for them to do now would be drop 5e, write off the design efforts as a loss and do what they should have done to begin with. reprint all the main editions:

Rules Compendium
1st edition
2nd edition
3rd edition

write material for them all and support them all, and stop being afriad if you are competing with yourself.

if competing with yourself was such a bad thing, there wouldnt be product lines, only products.

Pepsi
Pepsi Next
Pepsi Max
pepsi one
diet pepsi
caffeine-free pepsi
cherry pepsi
crystal pepsi
diet caffeine-free pepsi

McDonalds would only sell the Big Mac, etc

HASBRO and WotC fail to understand that having a bigger market share doesnt always entail having a single product that takes over the market, but having enough products that can gather a larger share.

and you dont need a broader brand. McDonalds doesnt make clothes, they license their logo out and characters to allow for sales in those areas. likewise D&D doesnt need board games or card games. McDonalds doesnt have a boardgame, and they do much better than HASBRO

so with making the 3.5 books again WotC is saying that Pathfinder is competition for its own product, so trying in desperation to get those people back, but its too late. some are already full ahead on Pathfinder, like people that just jump to the next version of D&D, and many if not MOST of those kind of people, dont backtrack.
Play the game, not the rules.
Swordslinger wrote:Or fuck it... I'm just going to get weapon specialization in my cock and whip people to death with it. Given all the enemies are total pussies, it seems like the appropriate thing to do.
Lewis Black wrote:If the people of New Zealand want to be part of our world, I believe they should hop off their islands, and push 'em closer.
good read (Note to self Maxus sucks a barrel of cocks.)
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Post by ishy »

shadzar wrote: McDonalds doesnt have a boardgame, and they do much better than HASBRO
http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/1521 ... nalds-game
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Post by Lago PARANOIA »

I suppose that the Monopoly Game of McDonalds doesn't count. I mean, it's the bare minimum of what you can call a game (it's only barely more advanced than Slot Machines) but it's a traditional -- that is, non-electronic -- game and it's extremely popular.
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In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.
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Post by hogarth »

ishy wrote:
shadzar wrote: McDonalds doesnt have a boardgame, and they do much better than HASBRO
http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/1521 ... nalds-game
Ah...the 70s. When they used to make a board game out of anything...
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ishy wrote:
shadzar wrote: McDonalds doesnt have a boardgame, and they do much better than HASBRO
http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/1521 ... nalds-game
Publisher
Milton Bradley
McDonalds didnt make a boardgame. NO McDonalds resources went to develop it, including but not limited to their food techs, or art department.

they sold a license for MB to make it. the same thing WotC could do to have someone else make D&D based games, or being owned by HASBRO, jsut stop trying to sell the name, and let HASBRO make their own fantasy adventure games.

Hero Quest isnt D&D even if it IS closest board game to an RPG.

NO boardgame made with the D&D name even comes close to D&D, except the Hero Quest rip-off using the D&D iconics from 3rd edition.
Play the game, not the rules.
Swordslinger wrote:Or fuck it... I'm just going to get weapon specialization in my cock and whip people to death with it. Given all the enemies are total pussies, it seems like the appropriate thing to do.
Lewis Black wrote:If the people of New Zealand want to be part of our world, I believe they should hop off their islands, and push 'em closer.
good read (Note to self Maxus sucks a barrel of cocks.)
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Post by ishy »

So what did you think of this one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeon%21 shadzar?
Last edited by ishy on Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Bigode wrote:I wouldn't normally make that blanket of a suggestion, but you seem to deserve it: scroll through the entire forum, read anything that looks interesting in term of design experience, then come back.
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Post by shadzar »

ishy wrote:So what did you think of this one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeon%21 shadzar?
the game based on old wargames?
Dungeon! simulates some aspects of the Dungeons & Dragons (D&D) role-playing game which was released the year before, although Dungeon! was already in development when D&D was released.
http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/1339/dungeon

you should have at least linked to the 1989 LW version AFTER Gary had been ousted in 1085 form TSR.

http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/2301/the-new-dungeon

still it was not Dungeons and Dragons, as precisely proves the point that the game doesnt need the D&D "brand name".

also remember when Gary made Dungeon! he was intending to make a game company, not a company form one game. it wasnt until after AD&D that TSR was heavily into making D&D. Gary had intended D&D to be a one time thing, and design MANY types of games, of which Dungeon! has a similar theme of sword and sorcery, but doesnt make it a D&D game.

note other games TSR made during that time. here are a few board games from the 70's

http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/6111 ... last-stand
http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/9564 ... ueror-1066
http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/6985 ... n-checkers
http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/710/snits-revenge
http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/162/ ... uter-space

TSR was a game company, not a D&D company. nor did everything they make require D&D to be a part of it, or ANY resembles to it.

also remember that in those days, board games were as easily paper not stiff cardboard boards, so they made MANY more board games unrelated to D&D if you check their page at BGG.

Boot Hill was another RPG that TSR made along the similar lines of OD&D. and RP wargame. even conversion rules are in AD&D 1st edition to be able to use characters back and for between the two.

i dont consider "wild west gunfights" really a D&D oriented thing.

there was a gaming world BEFORE D&D and consoles.
Play the game, not the rules.
Swordslinger wrote:Or fuck it... I'm just going to get weapon specialization in my cock and whip people to death with it. Given all the enemies are total pussies, it seems like the appropriate thing to do.
Lewis Black wrote:If the people of New Zealand want to be part of our world, I believe they should hop off their islands, and push 'em closer.
good read (Note to self Maxus sucks a barrel of cocks.)
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Post by Doom »

Wow, that's quite the memory lane of bnoardgames...shame I sold so many of them off. I still have Dungeon!, though, in decent shape considering.
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Post by hogarth »

ishy wrote:So what did you think of this one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeon! shadzar?
We had that game, but I don't think we ever played it! Maybe one time, max...
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Post by shadzar »

its official and has slipped that D&D will soon cease to be an RPG and 5e will be the...

Board Games Edition
http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx ... y/20120427

clever choices of words for the article title, or horrible choice?

Monte errata's his previous blog where he only mentioned two people....

Praise and Criticism
http://montecook.livejournal.com/251693.html
Play the game, not the rules.
Swordslinger wrote:Or fuck it... I'm just going to get weapon specialization in my cock and whip people to death with it. Given all the enemies are total pussies, it seems like the appropriate thing to do.
Lewis Black wrote:If the people of New Zealand want to be part of our world, I believe they should hop off their islands, and push 'em closer.
good read (Note to self Maxus sucks a barrel of cocks.)
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