Mutants and Masterminds -- The Apocalypse

[Lago_AM3P]

I'm trying to put together a detailed campaign setting that depicts modern civilization being destroyed by something and people scraping together a living to survive.

The twist is that there are superheroes in this world, either mutants or leftover ones.

I don't want to restrict the setting to a Mad Max-style dust bowl, though it is a huge backdrop. I still want there to be plenty of Silver Age menaces like time-travelling dinosaurs and sharks with laser beams on their heads, but I'm having trouble of coming up with an idea of a world that would both support these things but still have a sense of people struggling to survive.

I wanted to have the center of the campaign be in Esporte, a partially reconstructed city and the only significant base of human rights and civilization in the world. While the savage and/or evil elements outnumber the people in the city by far, cooperation and organization have made the city relatively thrive in this broken planet. For example, in the city you can count on at least two square meals a day with plenty of water and even some entertainment. Except for a few isolated pockets almost all of the literature and entertainment and knowledge is concentrated in the city.

There's also a dark society on the planet that's trying to snuff out humanity's last stand against the darkness and also has access to knowledge and equipment from Before the Apocalypse. For some reason they don't want to (or can't) try to organize the rest of the broken civilization so have to distribute portions of their power to people they find amenable.

For the most part, the government is trying to absorb refugees from the countryside but are paralyzed as the borders have grown wide enough so that their military and superhero population can only beat back the hordes trying to get their precious resources. A lot of missions focus on trying to protect the people in the region of Esporte or trying to stop the random Silver Age horror that still occurs.

I imagine that though society would be relatively benevolent in Esporte it'd also be a lot harsher than

Also, there'd have to be some powers that are right out. Nutrition just can't be created and electronics can't be magically poofed from nothing. Immunity: starvation / environmental effects / radiation is right out.

I want to keep the PL low enough so that a squadron of about 8 to 10 trained soldiers armed with rifles and bow and arrows could take on a typical superhero. Superheroes, especially in teams, can travel the devastated countryside in relative impunity but they still have to be careful.

Also, even though it's the apocalypse, everyone has to or gets the opportunity ride motorcycles no matter how savage their band is. But I don't know how to justify this. Maybe I should just ignore the explanation for this plot point?

Anyone wanna contribute some ideas, details, or questions?

[Cynic]

For the motorcycles -- note it as a kitschy setting-point. You are already in a superhero setting, certain cool-factor setting points are allowed and often necessitated.

I'm trying to think of a mad-max world with superheroes and I really can't see it working. The Superheroes would either take over govt at that point (from a grey-morality standpoint) or they would use their powers to make the lives of the norms a lot, lot better. But since you're keepign the PL low in this case, it should be do-able.

another thing is, if you have motorcycle level tech available, then you probably have somewhat low-medical tech available.
Ventilators, aspirators, and the sort. basically anything that can be duplicated non-mechanically probably should be available as a tech. How far you carry this assumption is up to you as a dm, of course. Just warning you though, if you have an intuitive player in the group, this can cause some innovative use of such powers such as Device or the Equipment list. I don't have my book with me so I can't think of anything else.

[Lago_AM3P]

I'm trying to think of a mad-max world with superheroes and I really can't see it working. The Superheroes would either take over govt at that point (from a grey-morality standpoint) or they would use their powers to make the lives of the norms a lot, lot better. But since you're keepign the PL low in this case, it should be do-able.

Exactly. While I don't want the heroes to be paralyzed by normally crippling hazards like rad storms and acid rain and the like, it should be enough of a factor that it plays a part in their decision-making.

Furthermore, while there are still superheroes, there are still a lot more human beings. A coup would be unnecessarily destructive and probably end the civilization. And it's just not a Good Guy thing to.

However, metahumans in the Outlands definitely oppress and bully their nonpowered underlings. Three or four PL 6 villains could reasonably take control of about 150-200 human beings, probably even more. And this is in fact a theme of the game, that some groups need to be freed and shown a better way.

Superheroes using their powers to make the lives of people a lot better is a big deal, though. While I don't mind an earth controller taking a week off to make a village spawn from nothing, I don't want their existence to make things entirely too comfortable.

Maybe I could make it such that things spawned from superpowers degrade and decay much more quickly than their mundane counterparts when away from their controller, or ingesting too many superpowered-imbued things in too short a time makes you sick? That way a water controller could roll up into a village and provide emergency relief but still have to come up with a way of coming up with some long-term solution.

[shau]

You know, this reminds me a lot of Fist of the North Star.

[Cynic]

a few more thoughts.

If the gameplay is set to happen across a large expanse of land rather than the one city itself, it might render some options which would normally be decently useful useless.

contacts, resources, wealth. again, not too sure if resources is a power/feat available though.

resources in the city could be something crazy such as stock/partial-ownership of a clean water reservoir or even access to governmental powers. while the govt. is significantly weaker in this setting, it still might provide some relief.

[Lago_AM3P]

You know, this reminds me a lot of Fist of the North Star.

This is sort of what I'm going for, though not as depressingly and relentlessly bleak as that series and not focused on one hero. But there are totally gigantic men the size of skyscrapers fighting human-sized opponents with wind-generating martial arts and dictators who command laser-shooting karatemen to oppress the populace into turning his gigantic light generator because he's afraid of the dark.

And even weirder stuff. But I don't know how to include still weirder stuff in the series. I might have to draw the line at extraterrestrials. Or maybe not.

Heh, if you've gotten that far in the series, you know the capital city of Nanto? That's the effect I'm going for in the main series, only there isn't a figurehead like Raoh or Kaioh to unite the evildoers. They're more like Yuda or Amiba, solitary warlords who do all of the raping and pillaging they please.

If the gameplay is set to happen across a large expanse of land rather than the one city itself, it might render some options which would normally be decently useful useless.

contacts, resources, wealth. again, not too sure if resources is a power/feat available though.

Yeah, some of that stuff is just going to have to be right out.

Then again, I'm thinking of porting over the d20 modern- apocalypse Trade Unit system. Even though there's not a lot of stuff that the heroes will care about, I still think that it's fun to have a way of expressing the desperation and struggle people live to in this shattered world.

[technomancer]

For motorcycles being around, that actually kinda makes sense, somewhat. Poking around the internet, I see that motorcycles tend to run around 60 miles per gallon, but a small car seems peak out at around 40. If you have limited fuel supplies, and little need to transport goods, but a great need to run scouts, motorcycles are your best bet. Plus, motorcycles would have an easier time on decaying roads, since they only need a surface a few feet wide, and depending on the bike, not even that.

Depending on the nature of the threats, I think that Esporte would probably be best served as being on a peninsula (so you only have a small bit to defend from land-based attacks) or an island. My vote is for a peninsula, so your can just drive to the mainland instead of taking a ferry.

[Captain_Bleach]

Somebody needs to stat out some Biker Gang thugs. And maybe a super-strong Powerhouse biker leader named Roadhog.

LAGO, you have once again peaked my interest and imagination. Your setting sounds awesome!
As is, how would trade units work? What is valuable in Esporte would be useless in the wastes, and vice versa. Sure, you have the Complete Works of Shakespeare, but it is nothing more than added weight to an illiterate nomad tribe.

[Lago_AM3P]

Well, how's this for a setting...

In a parallel universe, some asshole scientist exploded two stars surrounding an Information-age planet that had a superhero mythology similar to DC/Marvel and caused it to be at the center of a black hole. The resulting chaos almost killed everyone on it, but by some means or another the climate stabilized, albeit at a ruined wasteland. In the meantime, though, the planet is at the center of a black hole which causes all sorts of weirdness.

This planet picks up things from parallel universes and different points in time like crazy, though never at a rate enough to disrupt civilization on the planet, such as it is. You might wake up one day to see a gigantic patch of Jurassic-era jungle in the middle of a wasteland, but these sorts of things never last long--marauders kill all of the animals for food and strip the natural resources down and whatever the roving bands of humans don't get the harsh climate destroys not too long from now.

A big part of the theme is that the heroes are constantly sending parties to investigate weird phenomena and get to it before the bad guys do--to prevent things like doomsday devices and gigantic mecha getting into the hands of bandits.

As for extraterrestrials... the planet has its share of them, most of them unwilling. Some civilizations use the planet as a prison planet, hoping that the natives wipe out their refuse. Others use the planet as a rite of passage or a religious pilgrimage a place to attain enlightmentment... unaware that very, very few are able to escape. They're definitely not doing it by spaceship, since they're usually stripped for parts right away.

For motorcycles being around, that actually kinda makes sense, somewhat. Poking around the internet, I see that motorcycles tend to run around 60 miles per gallon, but a small car seems peak out at around 40. If you have limited fuel supplies, and little need to transport goods, but a great need to run scouts, motorcycles are your best bet. Plus, motorcycles would have an easier time on decaying roads, since they only need a surface a few feet wide, and depending on the bike, not even that.

But still, the bikers need to ride on their bikes like ALL OF THE TIME, since they're raiders and nomads.

Maybe most bikes after the apocalypse use ethanol instead of gasoline and nearly all gangs have an ethanol distiller?

[Lago_AM3P]

Of course, there will also be MUTANTS. And not just pretty X-Men mutants, either, but Total Recall-style mutates. Sometimes the categories will mix and match.

And to prevent tomfoolery like replicators, we might add this in:

Entropy Field

When the survivors of this broken world got together and planned for the future the metahumans, superscientists, and magicians pooled their resources to come up with a way to feed, clothe, and shelter the others.

Unfortunately, their efforts ultimately failed. Houses and electronics created with superpowers crumbled after a week or two at most. Crops grown with magic withered and died soon after sprouting. Attempts to create aqueducts ultimately failed, distributing poisoned water.

After the shattered planet started receiving visitors and phenomena from other planet and eras, they started noticing something strange happening to the technology and equipment from these worlds: they started breaking down, refusing to work... the only things that stayed more or less intact were things you could find in an Information-Age world, like computers and motorcycles. The lone exception are androids and artificial intelligence; these things somehow still exist in this world, though certain robots can and will find their parts breaking down if they're too advanced.

People dubbed this the Entropy Field.

The only real way around this effect is to add 'normal' energy to the system to prevent it from decaying. What does this mean for the people living here? It means that there are no easy ways of solving the problems of scarcity with the use of persistent supernatural effects. Magic can be used to clear a field, but backbreaking labor is still needed to grow anything. If an earth controller throws up walls from nothing, human labor is still necessary to work the stone to prevent it from crumbling later.

Another way to avoid the effects of the Entropy Field is to limit the supernatural input into the system. The Threshold is defined as the amount of supernatural energy one can use on normal or created objects before it'll start to decay on its own. While there's no definite way to measure the Threshold, most experts judge effects like a superspeedster assembling a bike faster than 5 times a normal human, a superscientist creating more than 5 cubic feet of water in 24 hours, and so on can dodge the Entropy Field.

[Lago_AM3P]

I know that sounded really awkward and forced. But if someone can think of a better way to make it so that someone can't wave their hands and heal and feed a bunch of settlers I'd love to hear it.

[Desdan_Mervolam]

Or you can have the Gang Leader (Or his Second-in-Command) have a Power that lets him control technology in such a way as allows him to make vehicles work when they otherwise shouldn't.

Or the gang has captured (Or otherwise secured the services of) a scientist who is fixing up the biker's stuff with Mr. Fusion-style Trash-to-fuel devices

Or maybe said scientist has devised a way to turn trash into gasoline with a large but still Mr Fusion-esque still. Such a device would probably be a prototype that cannot be rebuilt, of course.

-Des

[virgil]

One way to handle the issue of having your metahumans heal the land could just be genre conventions. Notice in comics that many of the mad scientists have technology far in advance of the local level, yet use it to rob banks instead of actually making a profit? Throw in the idea that the technological level of the world at the time of the cataclysm was information age, and any of the otherworldly stuff that comes in on its own is always from that era or earlier.

Also, state in a blurb that the genre won't allow metahumans to feed the world, either through banning of abilities or combos that do, or just having it be an agreement with the players to not actually do so even if it's within their power. I know some DMs would like the idea of negative hero points, slapping them on players when they break genre conventions, but I consider that too heavy handed and would prefer a gentleman's agreement.

Look at the Dark Tower, where they have super-tech, but it's always aged to the point of breaking down and decaying. Have a similar situation, and make the reason upfront, the only kind that crops up in the game is heavily damaged in transit or age.

EDIT: That reminds me of an old article (forget the source), where there were theories posited as to why super-scientists in comics don't spread their knowledge and make a fortune and bring the world to a new era of technology. It was either soo resource heavy that you could only feasibly have enough super-tech to keep one psycho happy, or it was too complex to actually be recreated by anyone but the inventor (and it isn't designed enough to be assembly-line produced).

[Lago_AM3P]

Also, state in a blurb that the genre won't allow metahumans to feed the world, either through banning of abilities or combos that do, or just having it be an agreement with the players to not actually do so even if it's within their power. I know some DMs would like the idea of negative hero points, slapping them on players when they break genre conventions, but I consider that too heavy handed and would prefer a gentleman's agreement.

I was hoping for a solution more concrete than 'just because', though.

I mean, I have no intention to disallow players from having plants strangle and snare bad guys or fling them into the air with hills appearing from no where.

The problem is when they decide to turn those problems to break the genre.

The bigger problem is that asking people not to break the genre that way still breaks the genre, because they're supposed to be heroes and are supposed to use their powers for the benefit of mankind.

I just thought the easiest way to bypass it was to screw players out of handing out persistent beneficial non-combat powers to other people ahead of time.

[Jacob_Orlove]

You could always have that stuff basically work, but it makes the black hole extra active, so normal people aren't willing to risk it when they can just eke out a basic living by farming or whatever.

So, the players can do it, but presumably not on a scale large enough to matter, and whenever they do, it generally makes things worse for people.

As a bonus, you get to blame them for their own adventure hooks.

[Lago_AM3P]

You could always have that stuff basically work, but it makes the black hole extra active, so normal people aren't willing to risk it when they can just eke out a basic living by farming or whatever.

I'm not quite sure what you mean.

[CatharzGodfoot]

RPG magic mythology has plenty of reasons, which I think Mr. Orlove was getting at. There's 'wild magic', where using your super powers always has unforeseen side effects (superheroes can deal with them, but muggles can't). There's 'detectable magic + greed', where any use of a super power can be sensed by other super people, and they have reason to seek it out (coercion, highlander, etc). There's 'defiling' where magic kills the land (making it bad to use in settlements).

But ultimately I don't see the problem. At best the heroes are going to make a settlement sustainable (but not fully defensible) with some work. It's not like they'll be building a Chocobo Paradise water park.

[virgil]

But there frequently isn't a reason that many heroes don't use their powers for more public service uses in normal comics, where life is much more stable in comparison. Professor X & Batman are particularly egrerious examples, who could probably do even more good were they to cut back on their hideout's toys and put it into charities and upgrading the police force (or pro-mutant campaign contributions).

The times where you frequently see a superhero actually supporting a community with their powers is when provide constant dedication to just that community; the utopian setup going straight to dystopia the moment they stop hanging around to maintain it.

[Jacob_Orlove]

1200894708[/unixtime]]

You could always have that stuff basically work, but it makes the black hole extra active, so normal people aren't willing to risk it when they can just eke out a basic living by farming or whatever.

I'm not quite sure what you mean.

I was going off of this:

In the meantime, though, the planet is at the center of a black hole which causes all sorts of weirdness.

This planet picks up things from parallel universes and different points in time like crazy, though never at a rate enough to disrupt civilization on the planet, such as it is. You might wake up one day to see a gigantic patch of Jurassic-era jungle in the middle of a wasteland

If you're going around creating matter or building super tech, you might wake up in the middle of an active volcano, or surrounded by laser robots. You can just make it part of the setting that most NPCs avoid taking that risk.

[virgil]

Oh, my idea is just one way to do it. Your idea of having the inherent entropy of complex systems (both magical and technological) increase exponentially such that the common man can only really keep up with maintaining information-age tech on their own while metahumans simply have more energy to counteract the entropy of their own toys (& sentient machines have an intuitive sense of how to do this) works too.

[Lago_AM3P]

This stuff doesn't come as intuitively to me as Frank and K's writings.

Could someone ask me a whole lot of questions about the campaign setting or at least pick apart what they see as issues?

Because I really don't know where to start. I guess I should start writing about stuff that actually interests people--my radar for this stuff is off. For example I was going to write extensively about how most citizens in Esporte get a basic meal of two fortified soybean bars, a protein bar (which is pretty much flavored meat tripe from any non-sapient animal they can get their hands on), and a coupon for water. There's also coupons for staples like potatoes, oil, and flour. Cheer food like chocolate and beer are assigned by lottery. One of the city's biggest treats is the Sugar-Breaker, which is pretty much a fruitcake covered with beet sugar and corn flour and deep fried.

Or I'd go off on some weird tangent about the Eye of Granmarg, which is a benevolent cult dedicated to gaining superhuman abilities solely through training. They have significant political power in Congress, which is a reverse of what we're familiar with. See, the House of Representatives is the upper chamber and they represent districts of the city and countryside while the Parliament are voted along party lines. The Eye of Granmarg teaches that it's a sin to rely solely on superpowers and even people who have them should struggle to improve even if it just means that Professor X should do more push-ups.

Their biggest platform is an expanded militia and an improved calorie diet to attract more refugees. Of course they are opposed by the Metropolis Club, which wants to slightly cut back on rations and grow biofuel--that way they can use the electrical power to...


You know, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Help me.

[shau]

I am not sure if you are really sure what you want. So far, I have thought of three similar, though different, games that can come from your ideas.

Scenario 1: The Road Warrior

Life sucks. It is after the bomb/plague/whatever and most of the earth is a wasteland. The population is low to the point where you can walk several days without seeing another human. And then when you find another human it is some psychopath with a mohawk who tries to kill you with an icepick and take your water. Life sucks.

But you're different. You have invincible kung fu/ laser eye beams/ badassedry and you travel around the waste using that to beat down the forces of chaos and help the few innocent people left survive.

Scenario 2: The Last Bastion of Civilization

Life sucks. But there is a place where life is good. A wonderous, magical place where the water is somewhat pure and the food is somewhat extant and a man can get all the benefits of living in the poor district in a third world country. And they call this place Esporte.

You have invincible Kung fu blah blah blah, and thus you stand in a unique position to help Esporte. You defend the town from the gangs of roving marauders that would besiege the place if let your guard down for an instant.

Scenario 3: Neo Feudalism

Life sucks. Not only is the land barren and radioactive, but at any moment some wierdo with a mohawk and a spiked codpiece can appear and enslave you for...some reason (note: people have to be worth something and not just liabilities in this scenario). And if you try to rebel he will melt you with his atomic breath.

Fortunately, there are those such as yourself who are bad enough dudes to save the president from ninjas...I mean save the innocent from dirt farming or whatever the bad guys are trying to make them do.