Dominions 4 Teasers

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:23 am

Before the latest patch, I put up the Fata Morgana, and while the illusory PD showed up on the defense display, they didn't show up on the battlefield. I don't know if that's been fixed.

I do really like how Tien Chi's conscription works now.

K · Post by K » Fri Sep 13, 2013 4:24 am

angelfromanotherpin wrote:
I do really like how Tien Chi's conscription works now.

I can't seem to figure out it works. I checked all the units for a conscript command, but didn't find one.

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Fri Sep 13, 2013 4:40 am

The Eunuchs have the Defence Organizer trait, and apparently slowly increase PD in a province just by being there, in addition to whatever else you have them doing (like how healers work now). But Tien Chi PD just includes extra Tien Chi units whether you get it by Eunuchs or just buy it. So you get whatever units you'd get anyway, and also extra pikemen and the imperial (heavily armored) archers. The archers show up 1/2 PD, the pikemen very slightly more frequently.

On a side note, almost all healer units are now Disease Healers, and don't heal non-Disease afflictions. I think even the Pretender with healer got hit with that nerf. The only actual healers I've seen anywhere so far are the Arco priestesses.

K · Post by K » Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:57 am

angelfromanotherpin wrote:The Eunuchs have the Defence Organizer trait, and apparently slowly increase PD in a province just by being there, in addition to whatever else you have them doing (like how healers work now). But Tien Chi PD just includes extra Tien Chi units whether you get it by Eunuchs or just buy it. So you get whatever units you'd get anyway, and also extra pikemen and the imperial (heavily armored) archers. The archers show up 1/2 PD, the pikemen very slightly more frequently.

Interesting.

angelfromanotherpin wrote:On a side note, almost all healer units are now Disease Healers, and don't heal non-Disease afflictions. I think even the Pretender with healer got hit with that nerf. The only actual healers I've seen anywhere so far are the Arco priestesses.

Well, there are two items and an artifact for curing diseases, a ritual to remove afflictions, and several items designed to lower the chance of afflictions, so I expect that the design goal was to lower the frequency and damaging power of afflictions.

Shatner · Post by **Shatner** » Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:58 pm

There's a lot of back-and-forth going on concerning Sailing, specifically that you can now sail across two water provinces instead of 1. Kristoffer is adamant that it should be longer range, or at least BETTER than it is in Dom3. Edi what's it reverted. Folks are pretty vocal on both sides.

I'm not really sure how to feel about it. Personally, sailing long distances like that is awesome and thematic, and I think it's not that big a deal for LA Atlantis (especially since they can't set sail from an underwater province anymore). After all, LA Atlantis can only go sailing with a STR cap-only mage who costs more than a temple; sailing is pretty much their capstone ability so I'm cool with it being a big damn deal. But LA Marignon, for example, gets sailing handed out to the majority of it's commanders and it's troops are pretty economical (aversion to shields notwithstanding). And I have no idea how to gauge Berytos because I 1) haven't actually played them (other than starting a game as them so I can look at their stuff) and 2) they're a completely new faction to the Dominions franchise so we can't even extrapolate about them from our Dom3 experience.

What do you all think?

K · Post by K » Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:25 pm

Sailing was almost always a non-ability in Dom3, so I approve of any change that makes it into something I notice at all.

None of the nations that have it are top nations either, so I don't mind if they see some boosting. Marignon is probably the best and still only in the middle range for the era, LA Atlantis is the weak in its era, Vanheim got nerfed hard in Dom4 and could really use any boost, and Burritos is basically a doomed nation with every mage having some crippling weakness.

Orion · Post by **Orion** » Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:36 am

LA Marignon has even worse sailing access than Atlantis. They only get substantial sailing leader on a capitol-only non-mage, for a faction with 4 capitol-only commanders 2 of which are slow.

EDIT: I'm not sure I see the problem with Berytian mages. The Blood-priests are really expensive for what they do, but everything else is fine. At least some of them can summon fiery imps. The Sage and the Pilot are both reasonably cost-effective researchers with decent combat options, and the pilot has real leadership and sailing thrown in. Storm Callers are actually pretty strong nukers for their cost, and the brides are a reasonable capstone.

name_here · Post by **name_here** » Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:42 am

Huh, used to be that literally all their non-mage commanders had sailing, I'm pretty sure including an 80-LD recruit-anywhere guy.

I dunno about it; my experience playing water nations has taught me that ocean provinces are generally huge. Being able to cross two could give you access to something like ten provinces on certain maps. But that's the thing with evaluating water-related powers; they really depend on the map.

Orion · Post by **Orion** » Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:52 am

I was wrong. They do get an LD-40 sailor who recruits anywhere. The LD-80 guy is cap-only, but also totally unnecessary.

EDIT: Whoa. Late Age Pangaea now has armored harpies. And Satyr Crossbowmen. I'm excited.

K · Post by K » Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:00 am

Orion wrote:LA Marignon has even worse sailing access than Atlantis. They only get substantial sailing leader on a capitol-only non-mage, for a faction with 4 capitol-only commanders 2 of which are slow.

That's fine since LA Marignon is a better nation overall than LA Atlantis.

Orion wrote:EDIT: I'm not sure I see the problem with Berytian mages. The Blood-priests are really expensive for what they do, but everything else is fine. At least some of them can summon fiery imps. The Sage and the Pilot are both reasonably cost-effective researchers with decent combat options, and the pilot has real leadership and sailing thrown in. Storm Callers are actually pretty strong nukers for their cost, and the brides are a reasonable capstone.

I was confusing them with EA Machaka, the other nation with the Collosi creation story.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:14 am

LA Marignon gets Sailing on their Royal Navigators and Chart Makers. So they can build a cap-only sailor with a leadership bonus, or a cap-only AWS mage with an AWS random that has leadership 40, or they can build a build-anywhere A mage with a WS random that has shit leadership, or they can build a 55 gold build-anywhere commander. Also they have the extremely puzzling Goetic Captain, who is build anywhere, costs 65 gold, has regular leadership, and a 1 in 5 chance of getting a single point of blood magic, but has Undead Leadership 10. So LA Marignon can sail with angels and demons, and they will.

You are going to build a lot of Royal Navigators, because that is where your A2, W2, and S2 come from. It hurts a little bit to spend 65 gold in a castle to get a non-mage, but when he's sea raiding with 10 or 15 Devils in tow, you won't feel too terrible about it.

All in all, I like where LA Marignon is now. Good magic diversity (A2F3W2E1S2B3), decent enough troops, and a cool and thematic gimmick. It doesn't feel overpowered, but it does feel pretty cool.

In fact, I think the Late Era may be fast becoming my favorite era.

-Username17

K · Post by K » Sat Sep 14, 2013 8:42 pm

FrankTrollman wrote:
In fact, I think the Late Era may be fast becoming my favorite era.

-Username17

Late Era always struck me as a little boring, but the huge change in the game with slow-to-recruits, the new Blesses and pretenders, and the new repel mechanic has made a surprising number of nations viable.

I mean, the "low-value" cheap infantry troops with spears that most nations get suddenly have become their better units.

Avoraciopoctules · Post by **Avoraciopoctules** » Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:32 pm

I'm building a Red Dragon as an Ulm Disciple (leader is Marignon, asleep so my SC can start taking provinces right away), and I'm trying to decide on a secondary magic path.

Earth can let me acquire more reinvig and maybe boost protection, air and water provide secondary elemental resistance and give mistform and quickness respectively.

Right now I'm leaning towards water for the affliction resistance that fluid body allegedly gives. Any second opinions?

K · Post by K » Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:18 pm

Death for Skeletal Form and Soul Vortex, or Death and Water for Stygian Skin.

Air is obvious for Mistform, but the secondary has to be Nature or Death for some kind of battle healing. I like Soul Vortex for reinvig and healing.

What kind of Bless are you getting from your Pretender?

Avoraciopoctules · Post by **Avoraciopoctules** » Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:34 pm

The description of the mass version of skeletal form implies a risk of affliction gain on the unit. Do I have to worry about my dragon picking up a chest wound? Other than that, yeah, death could be pretty nice.

I could do water/death if I went with a Blue Dragon instead of a Red. And Stygian Skin does look like it could be a nice buff.

Most likely, the team's pretender will grant a light earth/astral bless for reinvig and magic resistance. Marignon will be around Dom 7-8, with lots of positive scales.

Shatner · Post by **Shatner** » Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:53 am

So I've gone and ran a bunch of tests to figure out how the various alchemy spells work out. First off, here are the spells:

Alteration 1: Distill Gold (F1)
Alteration 2: Alchemical Transmutation (E1)
Alteration 5: Transmute Fire (F2)
Alteration 6: Earth Gem Alchemy (E2)

All the spells cost 1 gem of their respective types, and you can pile on additional gems to boost the ritual, like normal. The spell has a conversion rate which is boosted by the mage's skill in that path and that conversion rate is applied against all the gems you spend boosting the ritual. That means that the 1 gem paid to start the ritual is simply lost (earning you no gold), and that if you don't boost the ritual at all you will get no money for your trouble.

Formulas

Distill Gold: (15 + Fire Skill - 1) x (# of extra gems)
Alchemical Transmutation: (10 + Earth Skill - 1) x (# of extra gems)
Transmute Fire: (20 + 2x(Fire Skill - 2)) x (# of extra gems)
Earth Gem Alchemy: (15 + 2x(Earth Skill - 2)) x (# of extra gems)

An alchemy bonus is a multiplier applied to the result (e.g. a result of 20gp with a 50% alchemy bonus becomes 20 x 1.5 = 30gp).

Here's a couple of benchmarks

F1 casting Distill Gold = 15gp/extra gem
F2 casting Distill Gold = 16gp/extra gem
F9 w/100% Alchemy Bonus casting Distill Gold = 46gp/extra gem

E1 casting Alchem. Trans. = 10gp/extra gem
E2 casting Alchem. Trans. = 11gp/extra gem
E9 w/100% Alchemy Bonus casting Distill Gold = 36gp/extra gem

F2 casting Transmute Fire = 20gp/extra gem
F3 casting Transmute Fire = 22gp/extra gem
F9 w/100% Alchemy Bonus casting Transmute Fire = 68gp/extra gem

E2 casting Earth Gem Alch. = 15gp/extra gem
E3 casting Earth Gem Alch. = 17gp/extra gem
E9 w/100% Alchemy Bonus casting Earth Gem Alch. = 58gp/extra gem

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:02 am

So, at the low level it's slightly worse than old alchemy (because one gem is lost regardless) unless you're processing a lot of gems at once, and at the high level it's much better than old alchemy...except that you're using an E9 or F9 mage and presumably taking up an entire turn to cast the spell. But then again, you can fund the creation of a fortress for about 15-16 gems, which isn't bad for the mid or late game. Is there still a philosopher's stone, and does it stack with the alchemy bonus or what?

Shatner · Post by **Shatner** » Sun Sep 15, 2013 2:00 am

Ancient History wrote:Is there still a philosopher's stone, and does it stack with the alchemy bonus or what?

I don't know, but if there are alchemical bonus items then their benefit almost certainly stacks with an existing bonus, and probably stacks with each other.

Orion · Post by **Orion** » Sun Sep 15, 2013 2:38 am

Can Disciples even be blessed?

K · Post by K » Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:32 am

Orion wrote:Can Disciples even be blessed?

Disciples are basically prophets, and so are auto-Blessed. Dragons with Nature 9 Bless are pretty decent actually.

On the issue of Skeletal Body, it doesn't look like it causes afflictions.

Doom · Post by **Doom** » Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:47 am

Crossbreeding is freakin' uber now...one casting, 3 ettins, 3 cockatrices, not one trash monster.

K · Post by K » Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:15 am

Doom wrote:Crossbreeding is freakin' uber now...one casting, 3 ettins, 3 cockatrices, not one trash monster.

That sounds like a fluke. I can't replicate those results.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:41 am

Right now the resistance granting spells (skeletal body, liquid body, etc.) are bugged. You get the icon for the resistance, but the resistance isn't actually applied toward you not being killed by weapons. That may be fixed soon, the bug has been reported.

Right now as a Disciple, it is very difficult to argue with being a Dragon who has as much Earth magic as you can afford and just stomping on people from turn 1.

Crossbreeding seems to give me a good monster about every other time I cast it. Which means I'm paying 30 slaves for a Chimera and getting a bunch of chaff on top of it. I regard that as a pretty good deal.

-Username17

Korwin · Post by **Korwin** » Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:49 am

I like Virtue as Disciple too.

Avoraciopoctules · Post by **Avoraciopoctules** » Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:40 pm

Crossbreeding was definitely bugged at one point. The lists of good and chaff monsters had accidentally been reversed. I think it was corrected in the latest build.

Thanks for the heads up about physical resistances. I might want to rethink my dragon paths now. Does Earth still give you protection with every point?

Korwin wrote:I like Virtue as Disciple too.

Yeah, it's got great thugging paths and full item slots, so it starts as a nice SC and continues to get better as the game progresses. Magic weapons will mess it up, though. They cut through both Invulnerability and Mistform, I think.