What are you watching these days?

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Fri Sep 27, 2013 4:10 pm

I really disliked Agents of SHIELD. Whedon projects in general just don't do it for me. It's a dialogue thing, more than anything else.

Maj · Post by **Maj** » Fri Sep 27, 2013 4:55 pm

So I just finished the premiere of The Crazy Ones starring Sarah Michelle Gellar and Robin Williams. I laughed. A lot. My favorite character is the show slut, though - Zach Cropper (played by James Wolk of Mad Men).

For all that I thought it was funny, I think I will need to watch a few more episodes to see how much staying power it has. I'm not entirely sold. It seems like it might get too tiresome after a while.

Chamomile · Post by **Chamomile** » Fri Sep 27, 2013 5:45 pm

nockermensch wrote: I didn't even watch this show, but this deserves a comment. When an author reads positive critics about his job, I think there's a risk that he'll try to do more of what critics liked, and in the process become less authentic. Pretty much like a "Tarantino Movie" became its own genre these days, maybe Whedon is trying to create "a Whedon series", instead of "a good series".

It seems to me like Joss Whedon suffers horribly from this. A few seasons into Buffy the feminist stuff started rapidly degenerating into really poorly executed moralizing that made me roll my eyes whenever it came up (it doesn't help that Joss Whedon's morals seem to boil down to "hurting pretty people is bad, hurting ugly people is fine"). I get the feeling it's because the fans responded well to the feminist message and he started trying way too hard.

Firefly struck me as basically the same, but applied to his characters rather than his girl power message. It didn't help that the characters were pretty much completely aimless.

Maj · Post by **Maj** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:35 am

Maj wrote:So I just finished the premiere of The Crazy Ones starring Sarah Michelle Gellar and Robin Williams. ... For all that I thought it was funny, I think I will need to watch a few more episodes to see how much staying power it has.

The second episode had me in stitches. It may have even been better than the first. Maybe.

Cynic · Post by **Cynic** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:37 am

I like the new "Agents of... series but I'll agree that the main character is horribly horrible.

I really have no idea why she is even there.

michellesouza · Post by **michellesouza** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:17 pm

The Big Bang Theory!!!

pe

Sir Neil · Post by **Sir Neil** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:32 pm

I saw the second episode of SHIELD. I don't know why I even bothered.

It was my understanding that FitzSimmons are SHIELD agents, but as seen in the second episode, they are basically civilian support staff as useless as the hacker. I doubt they've ever worn beta cloth or held a needle gun. With my faith in FitzSimmons ruined, I was much more charitable toward the hacker, especially after her apology to generic white guy.

Hopefully the hacker will decide her loyalties lie with SHIELD before she leaks their secrets to HYDRA, but I don't know if I care enough to watch the show and find out.

MisterDee · Post by **MisterDee** » Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:33 am

After watching episode 3 of AoS...

Still on the fence. The characters are getting better, but man was does the moralizing and the "SHIELD isn't just good guys" speeches get old fast.

And for fuck's sake, resolve the goddamn Coulson subplot already.

Josh_Kablack · Post by **Josh_Kablack** » Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:07 am

I liked episode 1 of AoS - the blend of movie continuity to classic comics references appealed to me.... but episode 2 was so bad that I am now on the fence about continuing to watch it.

Episode 3 was in between, being a passable but less-than-stellar condensation of a typical James Bond plot not helped by the astounding lack of chemistry between the two lead characters who are supposed to be in the early stages of a romantic subplot. The casting of those two is probably the worst part of the series. I remain on the fence and haven't yet given up on the series.

Coulson is a Life Model Decoy who does not know that he is a an LMD, and the writers think that they are being coy about it, as it is clearly being held as a "reveal" for a season finale cliffhanger episode. Asking for it to "resolve" before then is just not gonna happen.

Post by **fbmf** » Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:59 am

I'm not a Marvel fan, so I don;t get a lot of the comic references.

I never watched Firefly, Serenity, or Buffy and Friends, so I don't have anything to compare this latest Whedon project to.

I've enjoyed the recent Marvel flicks (with a few glaring exceptions), and I like the character of Coulson, so for the most part I've enjoyed Agents of SHIELD.

Josh wrote: the astounding lack of chemistry between the two lead characters who are supposed to be in the early stages of a romantic subplot. The casting of those two is probably the worst part of the series.

This budding subplot between characters with no chemistry, and the campy dialogue, especially from the female hacker, are the worst parts of the show, and almost enough to turn me off.

Asking for [Coulson's subplot] to "resolve" before then is just not gonna happen.

I didn't have the Marvel background knowledge to know what an LMD was, but I was certain, being TV savvy, that we'd be waiting until May to find out that he was a clone/android/whatever.

Game On,
fbmf

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:44 pm

Josh_Kablack wrote:Coulson is a Life Model Decoy who does not know that he is a an LMD, and the writers think that they are being coy about it, as it is clearly being held as a "reveal" for a season finale cliffhanger episode. Asking for it to "resolve" before then is just not gonna happen.

Coulson being an LMD doesn't make any sense. What does SHIELD get from having a fake Coulson run the team that they don't get from having some other senior agent run the team? And the costs of 'having to keep it secret from him,' and 'risking pissing off the Avengers,' seem to be pretty high for the apparent nothing they gain.

I would find it easier to believe he was revived by SHIELD cutting a deal with Arnim Zola, or given all the references to 'a magical place,' some kind of questionable bargain with a questionable magical entity; anything which actually restored him to life, but in a way he might find morally unacceptable. That would be a lot more coherent with the actual behaviors involved.

Chamomile · Post by **Chamomile** » Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:35 pm

You assume that we can count on Joss Whedon to value making sense over cheap drama. Honestly, I'm not at all certain that's the case.

sabs · Post by **sabs** » Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:02 pm

Are you really going to sit there and complain that a show based on the Marvel Universe is going to lose your interest if it doesn't make sense?

Marvel fucking universe?
Just turn in your geek badge now. What's next.. you going to complain about the lack of good female role models? Or maybe how there's people with superpowers?

It's a tv show based on Marvel. It's not fucking Shakespear. Get your head out of your ass and enjoy it for the popcorn geek entertainment it is.

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:10 pm

sabs wrote:Are you really going to sit there and complain that a show based on the Marvel Universe is going to lose your interest if it doesn't make sense?

Um, no? I have no idea where you get that from.

I'm saying that the most popular fan theory about Coulson falls apart under the slightest scrutiny. That's a criticism of the fan theory, not of the show.

The show is going to lose my interest if it doesn't start being more interesting to watch. Ep 2 was abysmal, ep 3 was passable, but it's on life support because there's seriously no excuse for this show to be less interesting than Fringe.

Chamomile · Post by **Chamomile** » Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:22 pm

sabs wrote:Are you really going to sit there and complain that a show based on the Marvel Universe is going to lose your interest if it doesn't make sense?

I didn't say the show was bad. In fact, I made no comment on the show at all. I said that something making no sense did not make it any less likely to happen in a Joss Whedon show about Marvel comics.

That said, things not making sense is still bad, because once you realize that the actions taken in one episode don't actually have any impact at all on what happens in the next, your suspension of disbelief is gone almost by definition.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:44 pm

angelfromanotherpin wrote:Coulson being an LMD doesn't make any sense. What does SHIELD get from having a fake Coulson run the team that they don't get from having some other senior agent run the team?

Well, off the top of my head:

1) He's a really good agent, or he wouldn't have been called in for Thor's Hammer and shit, so he is probably well above the average senior agent.

2) That other Senior Agent would have to not do whatever they are doing, whereas not LMDing Coulson means he lies around in a broken shattered body, shitting in a bed pan.

3) LMDes get Super Strength, Super Speed, and Super Durability, so that's fucking nice on a team which doesn't have enough actual firepower. And yeah, he can't make the best use of that since he doesn't know, but it is still more than no use.

Sir Neil · Post by **Sir Neil** » Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:30 pm

Episode 3 of SHIELD was a tremendous improvement last week's disaster. The only anti-SHIELD rhetoric was spewing from the mouths of Iron Man villains, and who doesn't love enemy monologues? Fitzsimmons reminded me of Hermione and that kid from the Harry Potter movies.

Someone posted a clip of Hall from one of the Avengers cartoons. He looked pretty sweet rocking a Viking beard. Maybe he'll come back with one.

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:55 pm

Kaelik wrote:1) He's a really good agent, or he wouldn't have been called in for Thor's Hammer and shit, so he is probably well above the average senior agent.

An LMD isn't the person. It's just an android that happens to look like the person. Any skills they could program into the android are skills they could program into an android that looked like anyone else. Including someone who wouldn't cause problems if a photo of them got back to the Avengers.

2) That other Senior Agent would have to not do whatever they are doing, whereas not LMDing Coulson means he lies around in a broken shattered body, shitting in a bed pan.

Um, what? Coulson died of a single stab wound; there is no 'shattered body' scenario. And even if there were, building an LMD (or not) has no effect on the actual person. If Coulson is alive, dead, or crippled, that is completely orthogonal to whether he has a robot doppelganger running around.

3) LMDes get Super Strength, Super Speed, and Super Durability, so that's fucking nice on a team which doesn't have enough actual firepower. And yeah, he can't make the best use of that since he doesn't know, but it is still more than no use.

So why not use an android that is conscious of its nature, has full use of those crazy powers, and doesn't cause problems if photographed? You know, one that actually gets to have the advantages of its nature and isn't two kinds of time bomb for no reason?

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:03 pm

angelfromanotherpin wrote:An LMD isn't the person. It's just an android that happens to look like the person. Any skills they could program into the android are skills they could program into an android that looked like anyone else. Including someone who wouldn't cause problems if a photo of them got back to the Avengers.

An LMD is not only an autonomous robot. It also can be controlled by somebody. Nick Fury often controls his, and so, since they are trying to hide it from him, obviously Coulson is controlling his.

angelfromanotherpin wrote:Um, what? Coulson died of a single stab wound; there is no 'shattered body' scenario. And even if there were, building an LMD (or not) has no effect on the actual person. If Coulson is alive, dead, or crippled, that is completely orthogonal to whether he has a robot doppelganger running around.

Um, LMD's are controlled by an actual person too.

angelfromanotherpin wrote:So why not use an android that is conscious of its nature, has full use of those crazy powers, and doesn't cause problems if photographed? You know, one that actually gets to have the advantages of its nature and isn't two kinds of time bomb for no reason?

Because then the person controlling the LMD, you know, Agent Coulson, would through a fit about being fucking paralyzed.

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:10 pm

Kaelik wrote:An LMD is not an autonomous robot. It has to be controlled by somebody. Nick Fury always controls his, and so, since they are trying to hide it from him, obviously Coulson is controlling his.

Oh, I see where the disconnect is. That's not actually true. LMDs are autonomous by default, the external control is a highly optional thing. There are many examples of LMDs operating on their own initiative for actual years after the deaths of their originals.

PoliteNewb · Post by **PoliteNewb** » Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:51 pm

angelfromanotherpin wrote:
Kaelik wrote:An LMD is not an autonomous robot. It has to be controlled by somebody. Nick Fury always controls his, and so, since they are trying to hide it from him, obviously Coulson is controlling his.
Oh, I see where the disconnect is. That's not actually true. LMDs are autonomous by default, the external control is a highly optional thing. There are many examples of LMDs operating on their own initiative for actual years after the deaths of their originals.

I believe that was the entire premise behind the villain team Zodiac (the 2nd one); every last fricking one of them was an independent LMD.

Josh_Kablack · Post by **Josh_Kablack** » Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:09 pm

Marvel introduced "Life Model Decoys" in 1965. Predictably, what exactly they do and are has varied drastically in various comic plots over the past 50 years. The concept has not been used in any of the current Avengers Continuity movies (aside from one throwaway gag line)- which leaves Whedon and cronies free to re-interpet the particulars yet again.

Because of nods to Marvel Comics continuity (the flying convertible, Graviton's origin story, the sure-to-be forthcoming secret entrance via barbershop chair), and the long association of this particular plot device with S.H.I.E.L.D. I am quite confident in saying that Coulson will be revealed to be an "LMD"; whereas for any other show I would just say "clone or something". Saying "that doesn't make sense because LMDs are X" isn't valid, because within this particular fiction, the parameters of LMDs have not been established.

Post by **fbmf** » Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:59 pm

Josh_Kablack wrote:The concept has not been used in any of the current Avengers Continuity movies (aside from one throwaway gag line)

Which was?

Game On,
fbmf

Josh_Kablack · Post by **Josh_Kablack** » Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:12 pm

wikipedia wrote: In The Avengers, Tony Stark tries to avoid a phone call from S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent Phil Coulson by claiming in an answering machine/voice-mail fashion that the caller has reached Tony Stark's Life Model Decoy instead.

angelfromanotherpin · Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:12 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXdYlKu3qZ0

Starting at about 0:12