[TRD] Core Paladin

[TarkisFlux]

New week, new poll. The Bard's been mostly sorted, and the next partial caster we don't have a strong opinion on is the paladin. So we turn to the Den to sort it out. Enjoy!

Also, the SRD paladin with no changes was here before, but it was too many options for the poll. So if you want that, because you're a dick, say so.

Full disclosure: I have one in the running that I think works well-ish, but it's relatively unknown on the Den. And we're trying to satisfy you as much as ourselves (which is fucking impossible, of course). So, poll.

[Josh_Kablack]

Did you mean to ask which paladin should be a bard or is that a copypaste error from the prior poll?

[TarkisFlux]

Copypaste error from prior poll. Apparently I can't do a poll without a stupid error. And I can't seem to fix it by editing the post, so I guess it stays.

[The Great Fence Builder Speaks]
It's been healed.
[/TGFBS]

[codeGlaze]

That Templar looks pretty cool, just looking at it now.

[TarkisFlux]

Shameless poll bump.

[Koumei]

I'll probably never play a Paladin just for the baggage attached to the whole Paladin concept, and because the half-caster thing doesn't excite me much.

That said, the Templar does look awesome.

[CatharzGodfoot]

The Templar.

For a generic paladin, you'd be better served with a mounted combat class or feats (Knight, Mounted Combat), an undead-slaying class or feat, etc.

If you want to call something a "paladin", either an undead hunter or a divine-flavored mage-warrior would be a good choice--and the Templar fits the second. But 'heavy armor wearing, weak divine casting, evil slaying, undead hunting, horse riding, special magic sword wielding warrior' sounds like the description of a specific character, not a class.

[BearsAreBrown]

I think the Kantian Paladin is a great remake of the Paladin but it's so boring. Basically I agree with what Catharz says about it. IGTN's Paladin deserves credit for the best Smite mechanics I've ever seen. Templar is a good class but not recognizable as a Paladin replacement.

[ishy]

What is the paladin supposed to feel / play like?

For example: some people I play with, like playing fighter like classes where they don't have any real options other than full-attack on the character sheet, while I hate that and would never play that (and prefer something more wizard like).
If you're going to ask me what class I like, I'd always pick the one with lots of options, yet a good ttRPG should also have classes for people who prefer to have less options (or more) than I do.

[TarkisFlux]

I admit, I was not expecting people to say nice things about the Templar. Doesn't seem like it's going to be core (not in the default version anyway), but it's easy enough to put in an appendix along with IGTN's.

There's a number of things about the class that I'm still not happy with though, and there's a den thread on it if you have any specific comments / critiques about it. Link.

[Midnight_v]

I admit, I was not expecting people to say nice things about the Templar. Doesn't seem like it's going to be core (not in the default version anyway), but it's easy enough to put in an appendix along with IGTN's.

There's a number of things about the class that I'm still not happy with though, and there's a den thread on it if you have any specific comments / critiques about it. Link.

Hmm... I think that the fluff from the Kantian Paladin is the best, further it has been in basically all the version of tome pdf's thus far.

Whatever version mechanically used. . . I feel that the fluff of the Kantian Paladin should be used. It's a gamingden mainstay.

So basically I guess my idea I some kind of hybrid.

My paladin players basically have said they love that paladin but hate its "smite" mechanic. so... if you replace that you likely have a win.

Compromise works quite a bit.

[BearsAreBrown]

My paladin players basically have said they love that paladin but hate its "smite" mechanic. so... if you replace that you likely have a win.

...what's left? Lay On Hands and a Mount?

[Previn]

Just looked them all over, and without a doubt the Templar is my favorite by a wide margin.

[Midnight_v]

My paladin players basically have said they love that paladin but hate its "smite" mechanic. so... if you replace that you likely have a win.

...what's left? Lay On Hands and a Mount?

1. Proper fluff. (written with the tome perspective in mind)
2. Bard Casting
3. Aura of Good
...Aura of defiance
...Aura of Resolve
...Aura of Health
...Aura of Truth
...Aura of Forbidance
4. Fast Casting
5. Mettle
6. Mounted Combat: Skill feat.
7. Fucking Divine Inspiration and Fast Casting.

8. ... and its level 20 so rational people don't care but: Miracle

So yeah lots of stuff I've had people love.

They just didn't like the d6 smite. I guess they wanted smite to be a thing they did, not a thing that was always on. Shrug.

So yeah it get my vote, but I suggest picking a different smite from one of the others or something.

[angelfromanotherpin]

What about the soulborn smite?

Level 2: Swift action, all attacks for the turn are +Cha mod to hit and +level to damage, 1 minute recharge.

Level 6: Recharge time removed.

[Sir Aubergine]

I quite liked the first ability of the Vow of Valor. Reminds me of the trope http:// tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SingleStrokeBattle

[Cheiromancer]

I like the Kantian paladin (maybe cuz I have a philosophy degree) but I have to admit that I really like IGTN's take on smite. I would make a small change to it, though: it should be expended on *any* successful hit, not just against evil creatures. Otherwise it acts like an infallible, unblockable detect evil.

[RobbyPants]

As far as "Core" Tome goes, I'd say use the Kantian Paladin; however, I also really like the Templar, and think that it could be included in expanded material, or otherwise along side the Kantian Paladin.