[Non-US] News That Makes You laugh/cry/neither...

[Kaelik]

But I think it's a stretch to say that most white people don't care about their own flavor of whiteness. There are lots of people - I am one of them, as are many people I know - who care about their own flavor of white because it's relevant to their lives somehow. Ultimately, I don't think we know.

Despite your "can we really ever know anything, man?" defense, you are just completely wrong. It is not at all a stretch to say that most white people (in the US) don't care about their own flavor of whiteness.

Having lived in California, Texas, and New Jersey, I can say that I have never met anyone outside of New Jersey who gives a fuck about their flavor of whiteness. Precious few of the ones in New Jersey do either. Mostly just Italians and Irish, and mostly just because it changes which political figures are their family members and they therefore can expect favors from.

[Username17]

Living in Europe and being an American of clearly European descent, I will sometimes be asked where my ancestors came from. And then I will start rattling off various places, such as my father's father's side that comes from what is now Serbia but was then Austria, my father's mother's side from Norway, my mother's father's side who are Sorbians (not Serbians) from what is now eastern Germany, and my mother's mother's side who are Jews from what was then Poland but is now Lithuania. And Europeans will marvel at how diverse that is and how it's from "all over the place".

But of course, by American standards, that's just "White." You can drive from any of those places to any of those other places in a day, and all those people are White as far as anyone in California cares about. Note that more than one group of those people was hunted to near extermination for not being White enough in actual Europe in the last century, but in America no one gives a second fuck.

-Username17

[Josh_Kablack]

But German American vs. Polish American?

Polish= Halushki
German = Sauerkraut

Polish = Kielbasa
German = Smoked Sausage

Polish=Pierogies
German = Klosse

Polish = Rye bread
German = Pumpernickel bread

[Maj]

Despite your "can we really ever know anything, man?" defense, you are just completely wrong. It is not at all a stretch to say that most white people (in the US) don't care about their own flavor of whiteness.

All right. I have gone out of my way to not make a declaration that anyone is wrong based on the fact that my life experiences are different than theirs - because ultimately I don't know the actual truth - that's why I asked DSM the question in the first place - and I know I don't know the actual truth, and I'm willing to admit that my reality is not absolute.

But if you're going to be a little bitch about it, you're going to have to show me a fucking study or some genuine research because your anecdotes don't fucking count.

[Kaelik]

you're going to have to show me a fucking study or some genuine research because your anecdotes don't fucking count.

Luckily for me, there does not have to be study proving X to be true (or if there is one, I don't have to know about it) before it stops being a stretch to say X is true.

It is not a stretch to say that the Democrats will obtain a majority in the house in the subsequent election. It is not a stretch to say that shadzar is male. It is not a stretch to say any number of things that are more likely true than not, regardless of whether they have been proven to your satisfaction.

People are not stretching when they claim that something which is ancedotally true in many locations to many people is true. You may disagree based on... well absolutely nothing at all, but regardless of whether you disagree, it is not stretching for people to claim it.

[sabs]

of course,

How many american black people do you know have an ethnicity deeper than "black".

And if People from New York don't count, then Jamaicans don't count either.

[Kaelik]

of course,

How many american black people do you know have an ethnicity deeper than "black".

The claim that racial minorities have had their ethnic distinctions fudged by the melting pot of America does not appear to contradict the argument that racial majorities have had their ethnic distinctions fudged by the melting pot of America.

That being said:

And if People from New York don't count, then Jamaicans don't count either.

People in a location traditionally very close to the immigration center seems somewhat distinct from people from a specific foreign country all of the world. Jamacians are much more like Italians than they are like People in New Jersey.

So as long as we are counting Italians in Texas, we can count Jamacians in Texas.

[Blicero]

Just chiming in to provide another data point.

I'm also from Ohio, and the only white ethnicities I've ever seen people care about belonging to are Irish and Italian. These ethnicities only seem to get mentioned around culturally affiliated holidays, though.

[Kaelik]

Just chiming in to provide another data point.

I'm also from Ohio, and the only white ethnicities I've ever seen people care about belonging to are Irish and Italian. These ethnicities only seem to get mentioned around culturally affiliated holidays, though.

I'm frankly surprised that Ohioan Italian-Americans have Italian holidays they celebrate, and that Ohian Irish-Americans have more than just St. Patrick's Day that they celebrate.

However, in light of Maj being fucking retarded, I must now inform you that absent a study indicating this to be true, I now believe it is a stretch for you to make any claims about Ohio at all, even though I have never been there and know no one who has.

[virgil]

I currently don't have much room to describe jack for experience, since I live in Dallas.

I grew up in Massachusetts though, and I can tell you my experience was that the differences in white ethnicity only came up as conversation pieces unless the person was a first generation immigrant.

[Starmaker]

front page of fucking Salon[/url]]During a coffee break, a discussion about whether whites of different ancestry could ever live together in an ethno-state erupted from one of the tables.

“I don’t think there is any hope of people from old stock German families from the South and the sons of Yankee lawyers from Massachusetts to live together in the same place without a dramatic reshaping of the culture,” Wesley Morganston, a 20-year-old with long brown hair and washed-out black jeans, argued with an older conference attendee.

[sabs]

The real thing is that places with fairly recent immigrant groups will have much stronger Ethnic diversity. Jamaicans, Haitians, Russians, Hungarians.

Places where everyone is the same and the last immigrant is basically from 100 years ago (Minnesota) then all people will look the same.

But saying, "white americans have no ethnicity outisde of being white" is still stupid racist bullshit. Because some do, and it's no different than black americans.

[...You Lost Me]

Kaelik, I summon Stormbringer, lord of sample sizes, to tell you that your sample of people on the internet who agree with you is not sufficient to draw a conclusion that something is a stretch.

There can be all kinds of bias from here alone.

[Kaelik]

Kaelik, I summon Stormbringer, lord of sample sizes, to tell you that your sample of people on the internet who agree with you is not sufficient to draw a conclusion that something is a stretch.

There can be all kinds of bias from here alone.

If you think anyone here is basing their conclusions on the opinions of race here on TGD, you are confused.

Once again, whether or not X is true, claiming X is true is not a stretch just because it isn't proven with a significant sample size.

[...You Lost Me]

It only isn't a stretch if you have sufficient data to back that up. Your data appears to be anecdotal evidence, and collections of people on the internet that talk about whether or not they've noticed people caring "about their own distinctions in whiteness". And you can't just say that because you know some guys that do X that probably a majority of people also do X.

That's like 10-20 people of a limited demographic, and a non-zero number of them disagree, so it's "not a stretch" to say people don't care about their whiteness just as much as it is a stretch to say people do care about their whiteness, because the current data we have is basically zilch.

[Kaelik]

It only isn't a stretch if you have sufficient data to back that up. Your data appears to be anecdotal evidence, and collections of people on the internet that talk about whether or not they've noticed people caring "about their own distinctions in whiteness". And you can't just say that because you know some guys that do X that probably a majority of people also do X.

That's like 10-20 people of a limited demographic, and a non-zero number of them disagree, so it's "not a stretch" to say people don't care about their whiteness just as much as it is a stretch to say people do care about their whiteness, because the current data we have is basically zilch.

1) My personal interactions consist of more than 10-20 people, so if I was counting people on the internet, how the fuck would the numbers be that small.

2) No, my evidence is not solely based on the ancedotal experience of the people I have interacted with. I have personally interacted with more racists in New Jersey than in Texas, but it would not be stretching to say that Texans are in general more racist against Hispanics than New Jersians. There are obviously other factors being considered, not limited to media depictions, common understandings, politics, and other factors. Saying New Jersey cares more about white ethnicities than Texas, and that Europe cares even more than New Jersey can be based on all kinds of evidence that are not:

a) Studies by scientifically backed established organizations with appropriate sample sizes and double blinds.
b) ancedotes of whom I personally have interacted with.

Obviously the evidence I am working off of is less reliable than a), but that doesn't make something a stretch just because it the evidence consists of a wide variety of less conclusive evidence.

[Grek]

ITT: We argue about the definition of the phrase "not a stretch" for two pages.

[Koumei]

So in actual non-US news, Melbourne uni students have been "rioting". Police showed their usual polite restraint by throwing them around. They were bad enough under Labor, but now they're basically encouraged to beat people up.

Anyway, things were thrown at treasurer Joe Hockey, but he escaped unscathed. Melbourne, I am fucking disappointed with you. More effort next time.

[...You Lost Me]

You're basically saying "It's not that I'm not wrong about this" and also "I have evidence, I just chose not to do anything but call Maj dumb". Both of those are stupid.

If you had some sample, or evidence or anything, you could say that instead of stating that obviously your conclusion is correct based on these mysterious hidden things that you know and we should also know because we read your mind. Because I don't mind you being an ass when you're right, but can you not be an ass when you haven't even shown whether someone is right or wrong?

[Lago PARANOIA]

So... how are things in Eastern Europe right now?

I hear that the countries outside the EU are actually doing pretty swell right now. Well, swell relative to previous history and the rest of the world. Confirm, deny?

[Starmaker]

So... how are things in Eastern Europe right now?

I hear that the countries outside the EU are actually doing pretty swell right now. Well, swell relative to previous history and the rest of the world. Confirm, deny?

Dunno about civilized Eastern Europe, but things in Russia are shit as usual except:
- next year's retirement savings get stolen;
- Nazi riots everywhere;
- the "let's steal children from gay parents" bill is back;
- internet censorship under the guise of fighting piracy is huge;
- a 10% fee on small private imports is proposed.

(Did you think "except" would imply improvement? haha lol no. Well, people who fired me last year are in jail, I guess that's cool.)

[Username17]

The Social Democrats are having a schism and seven political parties got into the next parliament, meaning that I don't think there is anyone who can even form a government. Czech Republic had an 18 month depression that technically ended this year, and political turmoil is set to double dip that shit.

-Username17

[PhoneLobster]

OK so just found this cool story on ABC Vote Compass Explorer

Very nifty way of navigating what Australians are actually polling on issues.

This is important because, as usual the crazy bug fuck conservatives who just took power are claiming they have a blanket mandate from the Australian people to fuck everything up exactly like they want to.

Evidence on polling suggests at BEST they get about 50-50 on their pet issues, and on a number of them, like say, University funding are in the minority across basically all demographics.

They are on the wane on all issues with younger voters. QLD and the rural racist states are the main ones holding us back on refugee concentration camps. And basically everyone wants more done on Climate Change, EVEN liberal voters.

Oddly young voters are more in favor of the Monarchy. But aside from that the future looks bad for conservative pet issues, which is nice.

[Koumei]

This isn't because I am so British I shit the Queen, but... I don't give a fuck about becoming a Republic. Honestly, look at the track record of other countries that joined the "We're not in the British Empire any more!" club: Myanmar, India, America... totalitarian shit-holes where I would not dare walk outside without a machine gun.

If we assume it's not innately linked to leaving the Empire (a safe assumption, actually) and those places were just always doomed to be shitholes, then it still leaves the question of "why?" We don't really have any duties to Her Maj. There are way more important issues, and not-being-a-republic isn't blocking them - indeed, it's kind of nice to know that the Governor General could in fact fire the entire government, even if it's never been honestly used without CIA influence.

That all said, yeah. 30K votes was all it would have taken (in the right districts) to change the results of the election - that's not a fucking landslide, that's not Mandate of Heaven. Given how much Rupert and Gina paid for it, that's kind of embarrassing, actually. And it's even better to see that the people who did vote that way aren't even remotely seeing eye to eye with Abbott. This might even allow for more people to pressure their representatives into obstructing his MASTER PLANS, limiting his damage.

[PhoneLobster]

I suspect that actually a large part of the difference on the monarchy is that younger voters A) Don't remember that Charles and Diana got divorced and B) Don't have a stick up their ass about divorces.

I know that is very stupid, but it is I think one of the reasons for the surge in republican sentiment in Australia back in the day as many of the hard core conservative bat shit crazies who loved the monarchy felt morally betrayed by the entire Diana business in general. Thus seeing a surge in support for the republic movement as large fragments of normally pro-monarchy crazies allied at least marginally with forces they would normally decry as insufficiently patriotic traitors.

I suspect that if they had phrased the question differently in some sort of "do you hold a sense of loyalty and national allegiance to the Queen" or some such there would have been a drop in that from older generations.