Give me a weapon fit for a Samurai!

[SunTzuWarmaster]

I'm releasing the DM reigns in the campaign that I'm ine because of classes next semester (Senior Design II, Electro-Magnetic Fields, Expert Systems and Knowledge Representation, and Evolutionary Programming, YAY!). As such, I'm going to enter the ring as a PC. I am starting around level 5-6. I make an awesome wizard, but I wanted to try on my melee feat (bad pun, groan) for a bit. Anywho, I'm making a Samurai with the following feat build:

1 – Weapon Finesse
1 – Sharp-Eyed
2 – Horde Breaker
3 – Subtle Cut
4 – Whirlwind Attack
6 – Murderous Intent, Blindfighting
9 – Two-Weapon Fighting, Blitz

At any rate, The character is MADE to be an AoO God. I mean, come on, the list begins here:
1 AoO for normal
(dex mod) AoOs for Weapon Finesse
#attacks AoOs for TWF

and can be spent as follows: (level)
(2) AoO when you drop an opponent
(6) AoO against anyone denied dex 1x/round (for free!)
(7) AoO against anyone with lower dex (immediate action)
(8) AoO against any targetted spell
(11) AoO against anybody that walks close to you after a Whirlwind attack
(11) up to ALL OF THE AOOs that you can make AS AN IMMEDIATE ACTION. WOO HOO (it is 4+dex mod at this level)!
(16) AoO on anyone that hits you or moves into your threatened area

As such, the perfect samurai weapon is not, unfortunately, a katana.
Katanas have Bastard sword stats, which suck. I mean really, d10, (19-20)x2. That's terrible for a class that converts hits to crits for free. The dwarven waraxe is better (d10, 20x3), but still falls kind of flat, mechanically. I can get my DM to agree to give a "katana" that is a d8, 20x3, but I need a solid way to extract those AoOs.

So, I come to you guys for recommendations. How can I get rid of all of these AoOs. At level 5, I'm looking at having a realistic 6 AoOs per round with no way to do anything with them other than cleaving.

So is there a one-handed, light, reach weapon with more than a x2 critical out there somewhere? Seems like the elves should have made one by now....

[JonSetanta]

AoO abuse! Oh you dick.
I hope the DM throws more Samurai just like you, at you. HAHAHA

It's a melee demigod at low levels.
But I'm curious, what will you do about your abysmal Will save and lack of ranged attack? Rely on party?

My pick weapon: scythe.
With that many blows you're bound to get a crit or two.
However, if you really insist on double hands, do dual Battleaxes.
It's the same stats as the Katana mod you desire, just state that it's a thicker and heavier blade compared to others of its type.. like the thing this guy in Blade of the Immortal uses... (what is that?? sword? axe?)

http://www.arianaderalte.com/wallpaper/ ... r][br]Damn. I've been posting too much. Been a rough day...

[SunTzuWarmaster]

How is it not clear to say "This class is a class that is made out of AoOs"
Combat Reflexes is a class feature
AoO to deflect spells is a class feature
AoO to cleave is a class feature
"Use all of your AoOs to own someone" is a class feature.

I figure it only makes sense to take the "get more AoOs", "use more AoOs!" and "you have high dex!" feats.
I am not concerned about being a melee demigod, the Crusader with an AC of (buffed) over 30 (level 4) did that fairly well with:
"I declare you my opponent, if you cannot hit me by next round, I will own you"
"I'm trying, I only hit on a 15!"
"OWNED, I do 1d10+5d6+str"

I figure a solid touch attack of (1d8+(1.5*Str)+BAB+(level%3))*3 will be able to keep up, but not quite surpass.

Abysmal will save? Perhaps you mean Fort... They get good Will saves. Besides, figure I'll survive long enough to get Parry Magic and call it a non-issue.
Lack of ranged attack? This is a dex-based character with iterative attacks, I will use one of the party supply of Good-Aligned Longbows (standard demon-slaying equipment) and be above average without having taken a feat.
Actually, I figure that after I hit with any attack that can slow an opponent movement speed down to 5 or less, I'll just walk away (no AoOs, Tumble is a class skill) and give them a chance to die honorably or by bowshot in the back.

Party will be:
Jester, Crusader, Summoner, Cleric, Spherelock, <Samurai>. There are plenty ranged attack options in this party without a Wizard or Sorceror. Currently, everyone hides behind the Crusader (who destroys an opponent/round).

PS, I actually miscalculated the level 11 AoOs, it should be 6+dex at level 11:
3 (iterative attacks) + 3 (TWF) + Dex.

[Surgo]

For until you get two-weapon fighting, I'd seriously just stick with a scythe and get some cool auto-crits off of it from Kiai! There used to be a great exotic weapon from Eberron called the Talenta Sharash that was basically a scythe with reach, but it was nerfed into oblivion because of a printing error originally (to the point where it should no longer be considered an exotic weapon).

Then you get Two-Weapon Fighting. I don't know about reach weapons sadly, but light picks are kind of cool. Get some auto-x4 criticals off of Kiai!. Once you hit level 11 I'd switch over to an 18-20/x3 light exotic weapon which would be considered 'balanced' by the weapon balance guidelines if it did Kukri damage.

All reach weapons that I can find seem to be two-handed, sadly.

You can change your Ancestral Weapon and it's no big deal, but keep in mind that you can only have one at a time. You can still use your various abilities like Kiai! with a non-ancestral weapon; this just means you're going to have to pay to get a worthwhile second weapon.

[JonSetanta]

I was joking. In all truth I love the combo and wish you well on it. >_<

When I saw it, I was considering the 1v1 power compared to my (Tome) Tiefling True Fiend/Monk/Fiendish Brute.
You'd probably win a 'head to head' confrontation.

It's hard to tell who would come out alive, especially since at L6 mine would have G. Teleport.
As far as missions/encounters go:
Defensively, as in "guard this location" or "protect this noble", probably yours.
Offensively (sneakery + Hide any time, DEX poison claws, mobility, and the second Monk stance is the Stun + "ignore hardness/DR" = stunlock and melt metal like butter, UMD), as in "take out that warrior" or "slit their throats while they are immobile" probably mine.

I'll post the complete stuff tomorrow (or if I don't sleep well tonight?) since the game with Calibron is postponed, and I'll need CharOp advice like you n Koumei on this weirdass Tome stuff.

Odd though, the Samurai gets good Will.. new on me! I'll go read the FnK version, then.
Was thinking Comp. Warrior or something...

[SunTzuWarmaster]

Go ahead and post here, we'll see what happens. I thought that I may have had the edge with Hide, Move Silently, Tumble, Spot, and Balance to essentially be a ninja. Also, at level 6, I do 2d4 Dex damage (no save) as the first attack in a round and have the Edge on anyone that has lower Dex than I do.

[Catharz]

If you're TWFing anyway, use a kusarigama in one hand and a heavy pick in the other. The base damage isn't especially high (IIRC only 1d6/id6), but for a crit/AoO fiend it's badass.

You can even pretend it's that weapon used by the Guns & Roses guy in Guilty Gear.

[SunTzuWarmaster]

Actually, that looks worthy of an Ancestral Weapon. I've never played (or heard of) Guilty Gear, but the picture makes it all worth it. Only one problem: where the heck is it from?

I can swing to get TWF at character creation and cut Sharp-Eyed from the build entirely (who needs the bonus to power attacking when you get 11 AoOs 2 levels later?).


edit: I hope it is a light, finessable 1d6/1d6 20x3, 10' reach weapon

edit: found it! Oriental Adventures (duh!), page72.
lots of shiny weapons there!

[JonSetanta]

Here's my character so far, in total, for comparison...


http://bb.bbboy.net/thegamingden-viewth ... r][br]edit: moved to an appropriate thread. pardon!

[Judging__Eagle]

Looks like post suggesting an Extending Kusari-Gama failed to get posted.

However, a lot of other people suggested the same weapon and the idea to drop Sharp-Eyed was also used (that feat would be better for a Knight, someone that focuses on attacking single monsters very hard).

Also, try to Swing Blitz by the time you get level 6, it's a free +3 to hit with all iterative attacks; also, if you are Whirlwinding with a reach weapon, using the AoO-provoking option on Blitz means that you will get piles of essentially "free" damage since you shouldn't be able to be hit when Blitzing.

[JonSetanta]

OK I decked out the "Fiend warrior" Endymion, will post soon on the other thread.

[Aktariel]

Where is the extending special quality?

Also, what would the stats for this heavy pick/kusarigama look like? d6/d6 20/x3?x4?

OTOH, has anyone thought anything about using a... Tylonian (?? AFB ATM...) weapon for a samurai? Granted it's crap, what with all the feats, but you could houserule it so that it simply scaled by character level... 3 @ 1st and 2 thereafter. It might be pretty decent if that were the case.

That's from.. oh damn. I can't remember the book. It's the Arcana Evolved supplement... Transcendence, maybe?

I too am looking for a couple of good high crit multiplier weapons to use for a TWFing samurai.


Apologies for the general incoherance and rambling. It's late and I'm burned.

[CatharzGodfoot]

1200808337[/unixtime]]
Also, what would the stats for this heavy pick/kusarigama look like? d6/d6 20/x3?x4?

My suggestion was for using a heavy pick in one hand and a kusarigama in the other (so 1d6 20x4 and 1d6 20x2 with reach). Each weapon is already individually powerful enough in the hands of a Samurai. Combining them would be excessive.

[Aktariel]

So which one would you make your Ancestral Weapon?

[CatharzGodfoot]

1201237467[/unixtime]]So which one would you make your Ancestral Weapon?

That is the question, isn't it?
The answer: Whichever one you like. You can force a crit with any weapon, so you're really not restricted. There are some significant advantages to being able to blast through any barrier with a reach weapon, but there are also advantages to making the ancestral weapon your primary damage dealer.

[OF_1989]

1201237467[/unixtime]]So which one would you make your Ancestral Weapon?

That is the question, isn't it?
The answer: Whichever one you like. You can force a crit with any weapon, so you're really not restricted. There are some significant advantages to being able to blast through any barrier with a reach weapon, but there are also advantages to making the ancestral weapon your primary damage dealer.

Isn't the ancestral weapon much powerful than the normal weapon, is it?
IMO, the ancestral weapon would be boosted with lots of energy capable to destroy the barrier field. And I think that could only be done by making the weapon reach its highest potential power.

[Maxus]

Not too much more powerful. It's basically a scaling magic weapon, gets Ghost Touch and Vorpal as you go on.

[OF_1989]

Oh I see. I thought that was an extra powerful weapon. I'd like to ask what kind of weapon is that ancestral weapon?

[Maxus]

Oh I see. I thought that was an extra powerful weapon. I'd like to ask what kind of weapon is that ancestral weapon?

Well, yes, it is a weapon made more powerful by going through a ritual but it's not better than anyone else could get at that level.

Except for the Vorpal bit when that kicks in. I've never been sure how that worked with Kiai.

At level 9, everyone who owns a weapon has a super-special-awesome weapon -technically-, in that they're magic and on fire or something. It's not the weapon that makes the difference for the Samurai, it's the stuff they can do with -any- weapon. Kiai, break force effects, slice their own doorway through a wall, parry magic, etc.

Grandad's katana (or dire pick, if you're a dwarf), helps of course.

[JigokuBosatsu]

SSPPPIIIIIIIIIKED CCHAAAAAAAIIIIINNNNN

[CatharzGodfoot]

SSPPPIIIIIIIIIKED CCHAAAAAAAIIIIINNNNN

Too little four years too late.

[infected slut princess]

Samurais with hammers and pick axes are kinda lame.

Surely someone can come up with a decent alteration to the KIAI! ability that makes it awesome with idiomatic samurai weapons? Wouldn't that be better?

[Avoraciopoctules]

Samurais with hammers and pick axes are kinda lame.

Surely someone can come up with a decent alteration to the KIAI! ability that makes it awesome with idiomatic samurai weapons? Wouldn't that be better?

Solution 1: KIAI! adds 1d6 damage per 2 class levels. Nothing to do with criticals.

Solution 2: Mercurial Longsword/Greatsword. Say that it's curved.

[infected slut princess]

Solution 1: KIAI! adds 1d6 damage per 2 class levels. Nothing to do with criticals.

Solution 2: Mercurial Longsword/Greatsword. Say that it's curved.

heh. Mercurial sword.

your first solution is not good though. If I am level 5, i just went from doing x4 autocrits with my ancestral scythe 7/day to 3d6 dmg on an attack 7/day. The scythe option is way better. You would want a modified KIAI! to be just as good as the scythe option, rather than make it worse. Unless KIAI! is too strong, I don't know if it is.

Maybe what you could do is somehow trade off the extra damage for more KIAI! per day? Say each KIAI! use gives you a charge of 4 points, and you use x points to activate an autocrit on a x-multipler weapon. So your level 5 guy still gets 7 scythe KIAI attacks, but he could instead have 14 katana KIAI attacks. Hell, i don't know. Maybe that's a bad idea as well. I just think samurais with scythes and hammers are kinda whack.

[Avoraciopoctules]

Rogues and Barbarians deal half level in bonus damage dice with their special attacks. If that isn't level appropriate, then significant changes to lots of classes are called for. Samurai deals a quasi-flat amount of damage based heavily on the weapon chosen. Samurai has the additional restriction that uses per day of their damage bonus are limited, so one could argue for something better based on this.

So. The main question to ask yourself is how much better the samurai should be than the Barbarian or a similar class if it refuses to fight more than one encounter per day. Also how comfortable you are with a STR 14 Samurai getting the ability to make attacks that deal 8d6+12 (average 40) damage before taking other modifiers into account at level 3.