[Ars Magica 5] OOC: It's PeIm for darkness, not PeCo

Stories about games that you run and/or have played in.

Moderator: Moderators

Laertes
Duke
Posts: 1021
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:09 pm
Location: The Mother of Cities

Post by Laertes »

GM hat off, experienced player hat on:

The limiting factor on the Aegis is typically not how high you can cast it, but how much vis you want to spend on it yearly. A level 30 is six pawns annually, which is two seasons of refinement, more or less. If you're willing to do that, go for it.
Last edited by Laertes on Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
Korgan0
Duke
Posts: 2101
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:42 am

Post by Korgan0 »

In that case, he probably would have been passed on to a Quasitor in charge of the inquisition for just long enough to pass his Gauntlet, then thrown out to Ruthenia.

With regards to the focus, I would say all Vim with the primary exception of CrVi, alongside wards against Magical creatures, alongside anything having to do with vis and enchantments, as you suggested, and maybe any kind of Intellego so long as it applies to something clearly and obviously magical, i.e. a spell or enchanted item. Sound good?

My character's name is right at the top of the sheet- Petrus, formerly Alessandro. Do you want me to write up backstory in the sheet itself, post it somewhere else, or keep it in my head?
Laertes
Duke
Posts: 1021
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:09 pm
Location: The Mother of Cities

Post by Laertes »

In no particular order since I'm on my phone:

Re Focus: "All of Intellego as long as it applies to clearly supernatural things" is broad enough to be a Major Focus in its own right; having it be part of a Major Focus along with metamagic and antimagic is far too broad. I'm entirely happy with the rest of your suggestion, though - that seems like a nicely broad but still well-defined area, giving you lots of fun toys. Shall we go with that?

Re name: You're right, sorry, I didn't see that.

Re backstory: I am all in favour of character backstories being public: head-only backstory is worse than no backstory at all, as John Wick pointed out. Plus I love seeing people riff on and reference one another's ideas. Therefore, by all means post it - not on the sheet itself but maybe in a spoiler tag alongside it.

Re being thrown out into Ruthenia: remember that once you've gone through your Gauntlet nobody can give you orders (unless you're Tremere, and even then you have the right to leave the House.) You can go wherever you like and unless the local Tribunal has specific rules to prevent it, nobody can stop you. As such, punishment postings aren't really a thing in the Order of Hermes.

What I can see is you deciding to flee to a place where your reputation isn't going to hold you back. A new covenant will be a chance to escape your parens's misdeeds and decide your own fate.

Alternatively, you might be here to study hedge magi and try to incorporate their practises into modern Magic Theory. Or you might just be here because vis is vastly more common that it is in the Roman Tribunal.

Whichever. But your character should actively want to be here, for one reason or another.
Korgan0
Duke
Posts: 2101
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:42 am

Post by Korgan0 »

Sorry, I meant magic with a capital M- anything Faerie, Divine, Infernal, or even magical creatures themselves is totally off-limits. It would pretty much just be InVI with InAq/InAu/whatever if I was asking the lake or wind about a spell that had been cast.

Backstory: how about this- parens dabbles in diabolism, gets Marched/Renounced, Petrus undergoes very severe mentem-enhanced interrogation, far more than is necessary, due to a particular Quaesitor having a grudge against his parens. Said Quaesitor is in favour of Petrus being put to death, but another senior Quaesitor takes him under her wing, letting Petrus finish his apprenticeship and complete his gauntlet and also shielding him from the first Quaesitor, under the assumption that such a labratory prodigy (Int 5, yo) will benefit her in some way. Petrus then hears word, perhaps from a visiting Magus (a way to work in another character's parens, perhaps) of a new covenant being founded in Ruthenia, and takes ship to escape the first Quaesitor and the taint of a diabolist parens, with the additional perk of not being drawn into the clusterfuck that is Hermetic politics.

Possible plot hooks- the Hoplites failed and my parens comes back, whether leading an infernal army or simply wanting to talk. The Quaesitor whom I owe the favour, my second parens, comes calling for one favour or another. Alternatively, my second parens dies/slips into Final Twilight, and the first Quaesitor, still somehow nursing a grudge for some reason, comes a-knocking.

With regards to the setting: How much do we know about the Volkhvy? Are the events of the saga happening coterminously with those in The Dragon And The Bear? What's the Mongol situation like, and how much do the magi of the covenant know about what's been going on?
Last edited by Korgan0 on Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:33 am, edited 2 times in total.
Laertes
Duke
Posts: 1021
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:09 pm
Location: The Mother of Cities

Post by Laertes »

Sorry, I meant magic with a capital M- anything Faerie, Divine, Infernal, or even magical creatures themselves is totally off-limits. It would pretty much just be InVI with InAq/InAu/whatever if I was asking the lake or wind about a spell that had been cast.
Let me think on that. I get what you're saying but it sounds uncomfortably ill-defined to me. I want to have all the arguments about it now, before play, so that everybody understands it and there's no atmosphere of "Mother May I."

As a rule of thumb, a good Focus is something where you can tell whether it applies at the point where you first invent or learn the spell. When it becomes a case of "I can use this spell within my Focus but also outside of it", we need to poke at it as we're doing here.
Backstory: how about this- parens dabbles in diabolism, gets Marched/Renounced, Petrus undergoes very severe mentem-enhanced interrogation, far more than is necessary, due to a particular Quaesitor having a grudge against his parens. Said Quaesitor is in favour of Petrus being put to death, but another senior Quaesitor takes him under her wing, letting Petrus finish his apprenticeship and complete his gauntlet and also shielding him from the first Quaesitor, under the assumption that such a labratory prodigy (Int 5, yo) will benefit her in some way. Petrus then hears word, perhaps from a visiting Magus (a way to work in another character's parens, perhaps) of a new covenant being founded in Ruthenia, and takes ship to escape the first Quaesitor and the taint of a diabolist parens, with the additional perk of not being drawn into the clusterfuck that is Hermetic politics.
That sounds excellent. Therefore his "parens" upon his Gauntlet would be said Bonisagus Quaesitor, which allows him to join the House.
Possible plot hooks- the Hoplites failed and my parens comes back, whether leading an infernal army or simply wanting to talk. The Quaesitor whom I owe the favour, my second parens, comes calling for one favour or another. Alternatively, my second parens dies/slips into Final Twilight, and the first Quaesitor, still somehow nursing a grudge for some reason, comes a-knocking.
These are all interesting plot hooks and it looks like we could have a lot of fun with any of them. If I were you, I would take one of them as my Story Flaw and run with it. The purpose of a Story Flaw is to bring backstory into the game; the reason everybody only gets one is to ensure that everybody's background comes in equally.

If you don't decide to go with Favours, then Tormenting Master might be a good one instead, to represent either the first Quaesitor or your original parens.
With regards to the setting: How much do we know about the Volkhvy? Are the events of the saga happening coterminously with those in The Dragon And The Bear? What's the Mongol situation like, and how much do the magi of the covenant know about what's been going on?
The Dragon and the Bear will be used as source material. I haven't managed to lay my hands on a copy of it, but will be doing so. As such, I can't tell you too much about how much of it I will or will not be using.

The Mongols will turn up, gradually at first and then in a more and more immediate way. My plan is to use them as a possible endgame foe if we want to have a short campaign; alternatively, if everybody is really enjoying themselves after 15-20 years, then the Mongols might simply become a background thing where once a year a dude in a fur hat turns up and we give him some tribute and then he goes away again.

In terms of what people know about Volkhvy, that depends on their Magic Lore, where the Hedge Traditions speciality applies. I'll post something on that when I have a more thorough understanding of how I'm using them. Mechanically, they're going to be reskinned Gruagachan; the book refers to the Slavic variant of a Gruagachan as being a "Koldun" but that's just a generic Russian term for "creepy magician who hangs around the edge of the village." Any Gifted person amongst East Slavs will get called that.
Korgan0
Duke
Posts: 2101
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:42 am

Post by Korgan0 »

Honestly, I wasn't planning on taking MMF, but when I realized how absurdly powerful it was I just grabbed whatever category best suited my character concept. How about this- All Vim except CrVi, and any Intellego spell that targets anything that my character explicitly knows to be a spell- checking if something is an illusion wouldn't apply, but using a spell to discern things about said illusion, once it's been proven as such, would. I'm happy with Favours to represent what I owe the second Quaesitor, and the combination of Infamous Master and Susceptibility to Infernal is just gravy on the cake. Or icing. Whatever.

The Dragon and the Bear actually has fourth edition rules for Volkhvy, which could probably be adapted without too much difficulty. Of note are the giant fucking beams of sunfire some of them can call down, and the insert that says since they're solar, and hence violate the lunar limit or whatever it's called, Parma Magica and so on might not apply, at the storyguide's discretion.
Laertes
Duke
Posts: 1021
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:09 pm
Location: The Mother of Cities

Post by Laertes »

I'll buy a PDF of The Dragon and the Bear; apparently this company called Paizo sells them. It'll be good reading during Laertes's Absurdly Long Commute.

Re the MMF: As discussed on Skype, the solution whereby it covers Vim spells only, but includes investigating enchantments, seems to work for us both.

Re the Volkhvy: That sounds powerful, yes. I quite like the version in Hedge Magic, since it makes them strongly enough to be a threat to individual Hermetic magi (and thus to your PCs) but not strong enough to be a threat to the Order as a whole, and thus justifies the reason why they haven't been wiped off the face of the earth by the Hermetic war machine (so they can actually exist in the campaign.)
Korgan0
Duke
Posts: 2101
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:42 am

Post by Korgan0 »

Another thing I'd like to discuss with the players- would you guys want to dedicate six pawns of communal vis per year to that powerful of an aegis? I can trivially take it at a lower level and then research a more powerful version in a season or two thanks to being a labrat, but if y'all are concerned about Volkhvy or other Hermetic intervention having a 33 Aegis out of the gate could be pretty beneficial.
Laertes
Duke
Posts: 1021
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:09 pm
Location: The Mother of Cities

Post by Laertes »

A thing I'd like to discuss with players - I feel we're more or less ready to begin, at least begin speaking in character and roleplaying plans and so on. If people don't mind, I'd like to begin with some fairly wall-of-text stuff to set the scene. Would that work for everybody, or would you prefer to begin in media res?

I have a character sheet and a character name from everyone except Prak, and even xe's given me enough of a concept to run with in RP scenes.
User avatar
momothefiddler
Knight-Baron
Posts: 883
Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2014 10:55 am
Location: United States

Post by momothefiddler »

Korgan0 wrote:Another thing I'd like to discuss with the players- would you guys want to dedicate six pawns of communal vis per year to that powerful of an aegis? I can trivially take it at a lower level and then research a more powerful version in a season or two thanks to being a labrat, but if y'all are concerned about Volkhvy or other Hermetic intervention having a 33 Aegis out of the gate could be pretty beneficial.
33 would be 7 pawns, wouldn't it? And keep in mind that if you have a lab total of 33, for instance, a spell of level 32 will take eight years to invent. Of course these aren't the exact numbers, but inventing can be quite slow if the level is close to your lab total.

That said, six pawns is quite a bit. I can come up with two in a season, though, which I don't really mind, and that'd be more than my share if we split it equally, so it seems fairly reasonable.
Laertes wrote:A thing I'd like to discuss with players - I feel we're more or less ready to begin, at least begin speaking in character and roleplaying plans and so on. If people don't mind, I'd like to begin with some fairly wall-of-text stuff to set the scene. Would that work for everybody, or would you prefer to begin in media res?
I don't mind walls of text. If other players would rather go without, though, that's also fine.
Korgan0
Duke
Posts: 2101
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:42 am

Post by Korgan0 »

Dammit, I fucked up the math. Well, if I get a lab text, I can learn a new version trivially so long as it's less than 42. I can get 4 pawns in a season, with a CrVi lab total of 32.

I'm happy to start. I don't think we'd need Prak's stats for a while, so I feel comfortable in that regard. Did we come to a conclusion on tents vs prebuilt structures?
User avatar
Prak
Serious Badass
Posts: 17349
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Prak »

Ok, so I'm looking at getting my character put together, mostly using the Character Creation sidebar, so I have some questions.

So, the game year is 1220, we're all 20, right?
Which means we have 150/225/300 points for abilities, depending on whether we took Poor, Wealthy, or neither?
And it's basically stupid for a mage character to spend any of his apprenticeship xp on things other than Arts, right?
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
Korgan0
Duke
Posts: 2101
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:42 am

Post by Korgan0 »

We're all twenty, yes. Magi can't take the Wealthy or Poor virtues/flaws. There are several Abilities that are crucial for Magi, namely Latin, Magic Theory, Penetration, Parma Magica, Code of Hermes, and possibly others such as Concentration and Artes Liberales that you usually can't learn in your childhood. There's a paragraph on page 32 detailing what you need to be a magus, namely Magic Theory 1, Latin 1, Artes Liberales 1 and Parma Magica 1, which can't be any higher, although a Latin of less than 4 means you can't read arcane texts, which is important. Once you have those, it depends on what kind of mage you want to be. Magic Theory is crucial for labwork, Latin for writing and reading magical texts, Penetration for fighting magical creatures, and Artes Liberales+Philosophiae for rituals. There are several others that come in handy, too, since a Parma Magica of 420 won't protect you against a well-spoken sentence or a mundane spear. Profession: Scribe is great for copying books, Concentration, as mentioned earlier, is a must-have for combat, Finesse is crucial for aiming spells, Teaching helps with xp growth amongst the other members of the Covenant, Lores are always important, and yada yada yada.
Last edited by Korgan0 on Tue Jun 24, 2014 11:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Prak
Serious Badass
Posts: 17349
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Prak »

Good to know.

Question expressly for Mr. Storyteller- How inappropriate would "Death Prophecy: Ragnarok" be?
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
Laertes
Duke
Posts: 1021
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:09 pm
Location: The Mother of Cities

Post by Laertes »

Thanks Korgan0, that's a nice summary. You have 45 childhood xp and then 240 apprenticeship xp (or 300 if you take skilled parens). Spending your apprenticeship xp on mundane things can be seen as wasteful, yes, but it can also be useful if you need those mundane things.
Question expressly for Mr. Storyteller- How inappropriate would "Death Prophecy: Ragnarok" be?
Not inappropriate at all.

It won't be the actual Ragnarok, since Ars Magica takes place within an Abrahamic / Aristotelean cosmology rather than a Norse one; but the rules for Death Prophecy are rather generous in the extent to which they allow a symbolic Ragnarok to count. Stay away from quarrels between pagan deities and Giant Blooded people, for example; or wolves that just ate a dude called Mr Moon; or boats made of dead men's nails*; or werewolves in eastern forests; et cetera. There are many ways to have a symbolic Ragnarok which can make your Death Prophecy come true and also result in your demise.

-----

* To be honest this specific clause is just good advice in general. Build your boats out of wood, people. Dead men's nails are difficult to rivet together and come apart in rough seas.
User avatar
Prak
Serious Badass
Posts: 17349
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Prak »

Ok, I was worried it'd be abusive. I'm considering taking that, then.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
Mask_De_H
Duke
Posts: 1995
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:17 pm

Post by Mask_De_H »

I'm okay with a wall of text to start us off.
FrankTrollman wrote: Halfling women, as I'm sure you are aware, combine all the "fun" parts of pedophilia without any of the disturbing, illegal, or immoral parts.
K wrote:That being said, the usefulness of airships for society is still transporting cargo because it's an option that doesn't require a powerful wizard to show up for work on time instead of blowing the day in his harem of extraplanar sex demons/angels.
Chamomile wrote: See, it's because K's belief in leaving generation of individual monsters to GMs makes him Chaotic, whereas Frank's belief in the easier usability of monsters pre-generated by game designers makes him Lawful, and clearly these philosophies are so irreconcilable as to be best represented as fundamentally opposed metaphysical forces.
Whipstitch wrote:You're on a mad quest, dude. I'd sooner bet on Zeus getting bored and letting Sisyphus put down the fucking rock.
Laertes
Duke
Posts: 1021
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:09 pm
Location: The Mother of Cities

Post by Laertes »

In which case...
Laertes
Duke
Posts: 1021
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:09 pm
Location: The Mother of Cities

Post by Laertes »

For the Ex Misc and Bjornaer ones, I'm fine with both people answering at once, for a little nonlinearity.




Edit: Also, a little context.

Possibly a year or so before this event, your characters would have been sounded out for whether they're interested in going East, as part of a larger programme to sound out most apprentice magi for this. The nine apprentices currently in that room are the ones who said yes.

See, the Novgorod Tribunal is torn. On the one hand, they need new blood; the old covenants are stagnating and there's huge amounts of unclaimed or even unexplored territory. On the other hand, they object strongly to being treated as a frontier for the Rhine and Transylvania Tribunals to expand into. Therefore, a compromise was reached: foreign magi were allowed to come in to colonise, but only if they were technically made local by going through their Gauntlet here.

Your characters probably don't know this, though. This is a big imposing ritual and it sounds scary and solemn and after it's done they get to go and be grownups.
Last edited by Laertes on Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Korgan0
Duke
Posts: 2101
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:42 am

Post by Korgan0 »

So, just to confirm the opening boons and hooks: Right, Ungoverned, Local Ally (Faerie Queen), and Writ of Crenellation for the boons; Hedge Tradition, Itinerants, Contested Resources, and Monster for the hooks?
Laertes
Duke
Posts: 1021
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:09 pm
Location: The Mother of Cities

Post by Laertes »

momothefiddler wrote: Suggested Boons: Ungoverned, Writ of Crenellation, Right, Cavalry, Local Ally: Faerie Queen
Balanced By: Hedge Tradition, Monster, Itinerants, Poverty, Contested Resources
Leetkeis wrote: Suggested Boons: Ungoverned, Right, Local Ally: Faerie Queen
Hooks: Hedge Tradition, Itinerants, Poverty
Korgan0 wrote: Suggested Boons: Right, Ungoverned, Local Ally (Faerie Queen), Writ of Crenellation
Hooks: Hedge Tradition, Itinerants, Contested Resources, Monster
Those are the views we've had thus far on the Boons and Hooks. Since the covenant site itself hasn't come up yet, it's still under discussion.

momothefiddler is the only one who wants Cavalry; the others seem relatively uncontroversial. As for Hooks, there seems to be some disagreement over Poverty.

Prak_Anima, Mask_de_H, yours are the deciding votes.
User avatar
Prak
Serious Badass
Posts: 17349
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Prak »

Ok, I haven't even looked at the boons yet, but I'm pushing to get my character finished this afternoon, so I'll vote today.

I'm a bit confused at this point, though. For later life abilities, we should have 15xp*15years=225 Later Life xp, right? Or did we go from childhood straight into fifteen years of apprenticeship and not get Later Life xp, or what?
Last edited by Prak on Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
User avatar
momothefiddler
Knight-Baron
Posts: 883
Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2014 10:55 am
Location: United States

Post by momothefiddler »

Straight from childhood to apprenticeship. No Later Life whatsoever.
User avatar
Prak
Serious Badass
Posts: 17349
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Prak »

Ah, ok. I've got 5 from virtues (according to the sheet I'm using which auto-calculates stuff) but I have literally no clue what from...

My virtues are currently Mythic Blood (Ratatoskr), Affinity with Art x2 (waiting to get to spell selection to specify), Inoffensive to Animals, Study Bonus, Death Prophecy (Ragnarok), Affinity with Ability (Finesse), and Unbound Tongue

...and I just realized that the sheet is literally not counting Affinity with Art. Is there an actual in system reason for this that I've missed (I doubt it, but I'm leaving the possibility there), or is the sheet I'm using wrong?
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
User avatar
momothefiddler
Knight-Baron
Posts: 883
Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2014 10:55 am
Location: United States

Post by momothefiddler »

5 xp from virtues? That's... odd. Any chance you put 10 in Finesse and it's getting the other 5 from Affinity to put you at level 2?

And the only thing I can think of with the Art Affinity is that if you haven't selected the Art it can't apply the discount, but you've probably already accounted for that.
Post Reply