Pokemon SAME

The homebrew forum

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
the_taken
Knight-Baron
Posts: 830
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: Lost in the Sea of Awesome

Re: Pokemon SAME

Post by the_taken »

Incorporating: The two ideas of adolescents being both Spartan upper class and escapers of Child-Labour actually mesh...

During childhood you are taught literacy, and how to be empathic to people and pokemon, at home and in grade school, then you're sent out into the world when puberty shows up to see if you have the talent of a warrior. If you fail, you settle down in whatever town you're at and start a life of grunt labour,with which your Pokemon may help.

The whole reason for having awesome trainers commanding awesome pokemon is just like our world having Kun-fu masters coaching awesome martial artists. Even if it doesn't make the world a better place, people need to see people beat the crap out of each other for entertainment purposes.
Many Americans probably care more about which wrestler is the UFC champion and less about African tribes locked in genocidal feuds. There's probably more people that dream of being Jackie Chan than a stick throwing gazelle chaser. Hell, I care more about this game than the homeless in my city.

The pokemon world is like that. They just toss in crap plot devices and DM fiat that makes real world warfare technology and systems irrelevant, and the main characters of the (martial arts) Pokemon League the only saviors available when a world threatening situation develops. (You can't have F-18s missile or dog-fight Shadow Lugia, you have to get the hyper-active kid a pikachu and have him battle.) Only in Hollywood does a two-bit thief save the world from zombie overlords.

So, yeah. Every single kid that can get their hands on a pokemon and a bunch of balls is going to be kicked out of the house, because the world revolves more around pokemon fighting than it does around farms and food. And sometime they save the world from Team Retards or emo-poleon.
I had a signature here once but I've since lost it.

My current project: http://tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=56456
Surgo
Duke
Posts: 1924
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Re: Pokemon SAME

Post by Surgo »

In the interest of balance, I would suggest modfiying the type chart a wee bit. Namely, make Poison hit SE on Water, and make Rock hit neutral on Ice.

This fixes two somewhat important issues, namely that Poison is an absolutely shitty attacking type and Water is an absolutely godly defensive type. Also, Ice is an amazing attacking type but Ice STAB is really just not worth the truly excessive amount of weaknesses that it gets. Rock is already an awesome attacking type, it won't mind not hitting Ice SE anymore. If you want to go a little further, you can make Ice resist Water too (Water needs the nerf).

I'd also suggest a bit of a nerf of the defensive abilities of Steel, which are ridiculous. Maybe just remove a random resist or two (like Ghost or something).
User avatar
the_taken
Knight-Baron
Posts: 830
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: Lost in the Sea of Awesome

Re: Pokemon SAME

Post by the_taken »

Surgo at [unixtime wrote:1191517989[/unixtime]]In the interest of balance, I would suggest modfiying the type chart a wee bit. Namely, make Poison hit SE on Water, and make Rock hit neutral on Ice.

This fixes two somewhat important issues, namely that Poison is an absolutely shitty attacking type and Water is an absolutely godly defensive type. Also, Ice is an amazing attacking type but Ice STAB is really just not worth the truly excessive amount of weaknesses that it gets. Rock is already an awesome attacking type, it won't mind not hitting Ice SE anymore. If you want to go a little further, you can make Ice resist Water too (Water needs the nerf).

I'd also suggest a bit of a nerf of the defensive abilities of Steel, which are ridiculous. Maybe just remove a random resist or two (like Ghost or something).


While those are some good suggestions, we have a few obstacles if we're going to implement them:

1) The argument that Steel type lacks powerful moves. You pick a steel Pokemon for it's resilience, not for some STAB. Yes it's a weak argument, because STAB is a decent, but replaceable benefit.
2) The Argument that poison is supposed to suck ass. Team Vandals uses lots of poison Pokemon, and the meta relies on that type sucking to allow the main player/cartoon heroes to dominate them. I'm in favour of keeping poison sucky.

These previous points are as important as the following:

3) While I agree that water needs a nerfing, the central mechanics that I use have to mimic the regular game in every way possible, or the fanboys will drop red flags. I need the fanboys' support, so water type will continue to dominate.

You can implement these as house rules.
I had a signature here once but I've since lost it.

My current project: http://tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=56456
Surgo
Duke
Posts: 1924
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Re: Pokemon SAME

Post by Surgo »

Though you're unwilling to change the central mechanics (type chart), I want to reply to some of the things you said anyway because I think they are just a slight bit misinformed.

re 1:
Steel being a shit type to have STAB on has always been something of a myth (it's not a bad attacking type at all, really) and now it's even moreso: steel types don't really lack powerful moves anymore. Some more common steels in no particular order, and main attacking moves:

Metagross: any set without Meteor Mash is really, really odd.
Scizor: now has access Iron Head.
Bronzong: gets Gyro Ball and has the lack of speed to use it.
Steelix: gets Gyro Ball and has the lack of speed to use it.
Skarmory: admittedly breaks the trend, but it has a 120 base power flying move to use anyway.

As far as the special steel types go, though (Heatran and Magnezone)...okay, you've got me there. I'd say that's more because they have access to the awesome Hidden Power than lack of a good steel move, though. What use does Magnezone have for Flash Cannon when it can pick up Hidden Power Grass or Ice instead? Hitting 4x Super Effective on stuff that is both very common and very dangerous completely blows Flash Cannon out of the water. Seriously, fuck Hidden Power.

In conclusion though, it's not such a bad attacking type (for example, Meteor Mash is generally the best second attack on a Belly Drum Clefable because it really does have decent coverage), it's more that the only steel type move most non-steel types get is Iron Tail, which is absolute shit.

Steel is going to be super-resilient and super-awesome even with the removal of a random resistance or two. I'm sure Psychic or Ghost wouldn't mind the removal of the resistance, and it's not like Steel is generally used to counter that group anyway.

re: 2
Poison really sucks ass as an attacking type but as far as a defensive type goes it's not bad at all. Being weak to Earthquake completely sucks, but it gets a pretty sweet resistance to Fighting and Bug, while at the same time not being weak to Rock. Weezing is a kickass physical tank for these reasons (and the fact that it has Levitate so it's not weak to Earthquake anymore).
User avatar
the_taken
Knight-Baron
Posts: 830
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: Lost in the Sea of Awesome

Re: Pokemon SAME

Post by the_taken »

One thing I've been neglecting for Pokemon as an CoSTeG is the fact that having multiple PCs (and not just pokemon on one team) should actually make a difference. If the only thing that matters is battles, then why not just play competitively with your GB and not bother with my pen and paper model. What my next set of installments will cover: [/b]Adventuring with Pokemon[/b]

The concept is that you can't just walk over to the next gym. You need a sufficiently powerful Pokemon to take on the wild PkMn and rival trainers on the way. Also, there's going to be obstacles, like lakes and rivers, and overgrown bush. And you'll need an apropriate PkMn to perform theses tasks for you, since noone has any climbing gear, canoes or machetes. So, as I stat out each Pokemon and their attacks, I'll organize a set of abilities that each attack set performs and allows you to perform adventuring tasks that allow you to bypass adventuring obstacles that don't obviously involve other Pokemon. Additionally, I'm going to put a limit on how many different sets of attacks you can have, so that you don't end up with any one or two trainers that can perform all of the adventuring. Remember, all characters must be able to contribute meaning fully to the adventure in a diverse set of situations while allowing other characters to shine in other situations.
I had a signature here once but I've since lost it.

My current project: http://tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=56456
User avatar
the_taken
Knight-Baron
Posts: 830
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: Lost in the Sea of Awesome

Re: Pokemon SAME

Post by the_taken »

Poké-adventurer
Cut It, Move It, Burn It, Hydro Pump It

The level of technology each person has access to is ass backwards. If you`re not middle class or better all you have is running water, a telephone, a TV and a kitchen, and then everything you need to be a Pokémon Trainer. There`s probably a global tax placed apon every one that makes sure everyone has access to Pokétech. Thus, only the upper-middle class has the wealth to purchase enough power for other lower-tech or other more practical super-tech devices. And while it would be an enormous inconvenience for us to loose our gas powered cars and boats, the residents of Pokéworld have a strait forward alternative to their lack of cheap energy. Their slaves.

Facts about vehicles in Pokéwolrd:
  • Canoes cost more than a young Lapras, and other water Pokémon are easier to catch
  • A bike costs more than a Ponyta and a years worth of Poké-Food
  • Many easily caught Pokémon evolve into forms that can carry one or more humans and Fly them anywhere.
  • Many easily caught Pokémon can use the move Dig.
  • Many, many, many, Pokémon can learn how to Cut foliage. Or burn foliage. Or eat foliage.
  • ``Hitmonchan! Rock Smash!``


So many vehicles are not simply bought due to the enormous cost of energy that you`ve spent, and continue to spend on having Pokémon. The only vehicles that are continually in service are private planes for the rich, cargo vessels and ocean liners, and commercial transports that traverse distances that a Pokémon would not be able to make in a few hours. The whole point is that you can`t buy a canoe to cross the river, you have to train the Dratini you keep in your pants to Surf. Later you can teach it to Fly, but it will double as a hungry boat `till then. In other cases you may need a Pokémon to remove an obstacle that show up in the middle of the path to the next destination.
As such, in addition to being your cock for cockfights with other people`s cocks, your Pokémon often replaces a machete, canoe, jack-hammer, first-aid kit, airplane, surge protector, camp fire, arson, leaf blower, flower arranger, baby-sitter, power source, instant messenger, security system, blanket, sporting ball, light bulb, and toxic waste management system, depending apon it`s physiology and known moves.

Rules:
Objects can be subject to attacks like creatures can, and following are guidelines for determining how difficult an object is to destroy. The numbers are based apon materials and size.

  1. Evasion: Objects generally don`t move. As such, the attacker`s Accuracy Roll is counted as being an automatic 20.
  2. Hardness: Materials have hardness value. This number represents both an object`s Physical Defense and Special Defense stats.
  3. HP: Objects have a certain threshold where the amount of damage they take is not significant enough to compromise it`s function. As such, objects will have a number of hit points based apon it`s composing material and thickness.
  4. Weakness: Many materials have a method of being damaged that is more effective that others. If an damaging source is of a type that the object`s material is weak against, it takes a -4 penalty to it`s Soak Roll


[br]
MaterialHardnessBase HPBonus HP/inchWeakness
Dry Foliage251Cutting moves, Acid, Fire
Soft Wood/Vines6102Cutting moves, Acid, Fire
Hardwood10152Acid
Stone14153Smashing moves, Steel and Cutting moves
Rock18153Smashing moves, Steel and Cutting Moves
Soft Metal18204Fire and Smashing moves, or combining the two
Hard Metal24203Fire and Smashing moves, or combining the two
Carbon Crystal1042Smashing moves, Acid
Glass1262Smashing moves
Plati-Glass2642Fire, Cutting moves, Acid*
Psy Crystal22105Psychic moves, Dark moves
Force Field3020n/aAny special moves
*Plasti-Glass takes a total -8 penalty from acid damage, instead of the normal -4



Any questions? Comments? Suggestions? Coupons for ``Free Pizza``? Or at least explain what I did wrong with the table tags?
Last edited by the_taken on Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I had a signature here once but I've since lost it.

My current project: http://tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=56456
Surgo
Duke
Posts: 1924
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Re: Pokemon SAME

Post by Surgo »

Would canoes really cost more than a -Lapras-? I was under the impression that Lapras were actually pretty rare. I can sea them costing more than a Krabby or something, but a Lapras?

Actually, I think that any sort of object that doesn't require a lot of non-pokemon-inspired technology to manufacture (eg: pokeballs) would be pretty cheap. This includes basic stuff like canoes and backpacks. Everyone has a bloody backpack and, when it comes to swimming, your character was the only one who actually rid around on their pokemon anyway...everyone else was a swimmer. It's hard to build a definite correlation from that.
User avatar
the_taken
Knight-Baron
Posts: 830
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: Lost in the Sea of Awesome

Re: Pokemon SAME

Post by the_taken »

Added for reference purposes:
FrankTrollman at [unixtime wrote:1195033775[/unixtime]]Also, the Joy family just has extremely dominant genes. We've actually met the various fathers that Nurse Joys have had and they are different. However, their mothers were all Nurse Joys. The Nurse Joys we encounter in Pokemon are all first and second cousins. And they aren't all nurses, a few of them are scientists and secret agents and stuff.

If you marry a Nurse Joy you are accepting that your children will probably be girls. They will have pink hair and your wife will insist on naming them Joy. But there are families involved, and Nurse Joys reproduce sexually, and they aren't all exactly the same.

-Username17
FrankTrollman at [unixtime wrote:1195037584[/unixtime]]Joys and Jennys can indeed pass for each other quite easily. There are documented cases of cousins passing as each other with alterations as simple as swapping hats. I can even think of a case in which a Joy was mistaken for her own grand-daughter but that involved time travel.

Fucking Celebi.

-Username17


I think there may also be a third set of this type of character. Jessie, although there's only one other "Jessie" in the show. And this would involve the show making sense.
I had a signature here once but I've since lost it.

My current project: http://tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=56456
User avatar
the_taken
Knight-Baron
Posts: 830
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: Lost in the Sea of Awesome

Re: Pokemon SAME

Post by the_taken »

Surgo at [unixtime wrote:1195338253[/unixtime]]Would canoes really cost more than a -Lapras-? I was under the impression that Lapras were actually pretty rare. I can sea them costing more than a Krabby or something, but a Lapras?

Actually, I think that any sort of object that doesn't require a lot of non-pokemon-inspired technology to manufacture (eg: pokeballs) would be pretty cheap. This includes basic stuff like canoes and backpacks. Everyone has a bloody backpack and, when it comes to swimming, your character was the only one who actually rid around on their pokemon anyway...everyone else was a swimmer. It's hard to build a definite correlation from that.


I was going for the a clone of the bike argument. In the first game, you can't buy a bike. It's impossible. You can't carry that much money, and there's no access credit/debit/money cards. You had to get a coupon from Mr. Richard Mofo on his whimsical day of happiness.
That guy's so rich cause he's in charge of the Pokemon Fan Club, which likely sells merchandise in like the Spiderman Fan Club does.
I had a signature here once but I've since lost it.

My current project: http://tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=56456
Surgo
Duke
Posts: 1924
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Re: Pokemon SAME

Post by Surgo »

That's just simplistic game mechanics run amok. A very large number of characters in that game actually have bikes -- for example, everyone on bicycle road. Hell, they even built a bicycle road, so that means that they need to be easily available.
User avatar
the_taken
Knight-Baron
Posts: 830
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: Lost in the Sea of Awesome

Re: Pokemon SAME

Post by the_taken »

Surgo at [unixtime wrote:1197502490[/unixtime]]That's just simplistic game mechanics run amok. A very large number of characters in that game actually have bikes -- for example, everyone on bicycle road. Hell, they even built a bicycle road, so that means that they need to be easily available.

OK then, what about cars? I've never even seen a mopped, let alone a whole car during the whole three seasons I watched the show. Is it because biking is healthier or better for the environment? I doubt it.

In any case, there's got to be a really good reason for having the characters in the show walk almost every where. I know for certain I wouldn't walk to the Sky Dome to see a Jays game from where I live.

(I have got to stop referencing the show.)

My point is: In Pokéworld you don't buy a car, you don't buy a canoe, you don't buy a chainsaw. You train a pokémon (however obtained) to deal with whatever terrain navigation you're legs can't handle.
I had a signature here once but I've since lost it.

My current project: http://tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=56456
Surgo
Duke
Posts: 1924
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Re: Pokemon SAME

Post by Surgo »

Yes, with cars* you have a point. But 'simpler' technology, like bicycles, should be cool. Even a canoe. A canoe is really just a shaped piece of wood, something a pokemon could easily make if you didn't have a water pokemon anyway.

A canoe isn't like a chainsaw, or a car. It's more like an axe or a bicycle. And there are definitely axes and bicycles.

* In Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald, you start the game out in a moving van. So I guess they have some for specialized purposes.
User avatar
the_taken
Knight-Baron
Posts: 830
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: Lost in the Sea of Awesome

Re: Pokemon SAME

Post by the_taken »

Surgo at [unixtime wrote:1197930830[/unixtime]]* In Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald, you start the game out in a moving van. So I guess they have some for specialized purposes.


Right. Dragonite can't carry everything in your house (though probably everything in his trainers house). It'll also get tired traveling at 60 mph for a few hours while a motorized vehicle can travel that fast for a whole day, explaining the need for cargo vessels and international airports. These are probably powered by magnemites and magnetons instead of fossil fuels, unless they make a electric/rock type that you obtain thru fossil resurrection for 5th generation.

* I bought FireRed instead of R/S/E. Don't know much of the story other than Team Rocket is replaced with Red vs Blue and you get to be Purple Haze.
I had a signature here once but I've since lost it.

My current project: http://tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=56456
User avatar
the_taken
Knight-Baron
Posts: 830
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: Lost in the Sea of Awesome

Post by the_taken »

Thank Catharz for reminding me. I guess it had to be highlighted for me to put it together.

Collecting Badges
The primary driving force of the world for every trainer is to be declared The Pokémon Master; the world's best trainer with the world's best pokémon. Being the Pokémon Master is like being Ruslan Chagaev, and your pokémon are KISS. You are the envy of trainers everywhere, and the celebrated hero whatever ground you walk on. People will jump ship, just to stay below your head, that is, until your dead or they find someone better.
Climbing to the top of the social-economic ladder of Pokéworld isn't as simple as catching the biggest PkMn and using it to beat Blain, or Larry, or whoever is the current master of the elite four. Such would generate a endless line of would be challengers hoping their Pidgey is the biggest and baddest Pokémon around. There's a highly formalized system of flaming hoops of various heights that both aid a would be challenger in getting ready for the big fights, and weed out those that are less than worthy. As proof of their abilities, trainers obtain badges from various gyms across the land to earn the right to enter the Pokémon League and chalenge the Elite Four.
Badges are gained from defeating a gym leader in a gym challenge. Gym leaders are usually selected as the strongest and most capable of the adherents to certain Pokémon types, roughly translating to the game as having a very high level. One may certainly ask how can the players hope to gain a Badge even after months of play if a gym leader is always such a powerful opponent?
The answer is simply that winning a gym challenge is not the same as defeating the best that a gym has to offer. Brock and Misty may very well be 15th level Trainers, but they won't pull out their biggest and baddest Pokémon for Badge Matches. Badge matches are very formalized, and the gym leader isn't throwing out anything close to their strongest Pokemon. On the other hand, the challenger is supposed to be using her strongest Pokémon - it's expected that a Badge Challenger is not going to be as strong as a gym leader and it would be fairly pointless if each new candidate had to be stronger than the gym leader. This creates the important distinction between attempting to obtain a badge, and challenging the gym leader.

Badge Matches and Gym Matches
Successfully obtaining a badge proves that a pokémon trainer understands the philosophies of the Gym's combat school, and is worthy of Gym Membership. But what if a trainer wishes to push herself (and her pokémon) - to prove that the Gym may not be worthy of her?
That's where Gym matches come in. These are still settled with strict rules, but there is a crucial difference. The battle is for the honour of the Gym, not the challenger's career, and the Gym leader is expected to use their strongest pokémon and techniques. Obviously, a prospective Gym challenger would have to prove herself in many ways just to be granted an opportunity to compete in a Gym match. The winner of a Gym match is frequently made Gym Leader if she wasn't before. The loser is deeply shamed. Gym matches are a big affair, and rarely happen.

Badges
Badges come in a variety of levels, and vary greatly dependant upon the issuing Gym, much like the coloured belts of real world martial arts. Generally, a Gym will issue an apprenticeship Badge for newcomers to the school, or would be Pokémon League competitors. To qualify one normally has to perform a relatively simple task - defeat another apprentice of the Gym, or defeat the Gym Leader's three newest, barely trained Pokémon. The apprenticeship Badge is proof that its bearer has a basic understanding of the philosophies and techniques of the Gym.

Most Gyms also issue a membership Badge. Possession of such a Badge indicates a formidable amount of skill as it indicates that the bearer has overcome a moderate obstacle, such as besting 3 of the Gym Leader's Lvl 5 Pokémon in sequential single combat. Such a Badge usually takes the form of a signet ring or other nearly unforgeable and permanent item. Particularly wealthy Gyms sometimes give out a useful device with or as the badge, such as an HM, Bicycle or cellphone.

Finally, Gyms often provide a Master's Badge; proof of being an avatar of the Gym's philosophies and style. Only a few can aspire to such a Badge, as the trial is gruelling in the extreme. Most Gyms provide an actual magic item as their Master's Badge.

Rules of Engagement
In a formal Pokemon match, whether it is for Badges, a Gym, or just honor, the rules are pretty much the same:
  • No one dies. Not the trainers, not the Pokemon. This rule comes first. Regardless of what you are fighting for noone uses potentially lethal attacks. This means that Guillotine cannot be used, as it often kills the target via decapitation.
  • Pokemon fight alone. The Trainers and bystanders do not interfere with the Pokémon - to help or hinder either side. No items, nor devices, other than those the Pokémon carry into the fight with them. Also, Pokémon do not summon other Pokémon to the battle. Moves like U-turn, Baton Pass, and Roar are barred.
  • Pokémon fight each other. That means that their attacks are not to directly or indirectly attack the other trainer or bystanders. If a trainer's Jigglypuff lulls anyone out other than the opponent's pokémon, the trainer is disqualified.
  • No substitutions. A Trainer decides their order of Pokémon before the match, and may not recall or transfer Pokémon once the match has begun.
  • One fall and you're out. When a Pokémon gets knocked out or surrenders - it is out of the match. Even if it is revived before the match is done it can't come back into the match.
Badges? We Don't Need No Stinking Badges!
Not all trainers compete for Badges at all. There are some who refuse to pursue the lure of Badges and Gym acceptance. Often as not, these Gymless Trainers congregate together and ironically behave exactly like a Gym in all but name.
Last edited by the_taken on Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I had a signature here once but I've since lost it.

My current project: http://tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=56456
User avatar
the_taken
Knight-Baron
Posts: 830
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: Lost in the Sea of Awesome

Post by the_taken »

Beyond the Battles - The Skill System

What reasons would you have to travel around with potential rivals? You are competing for the rank of grand master right? Maybe, but it's really hard to get far on your own. You may end up contending with stranger things than caves and forests. Actually, considering that being the main characters means excitement and adventure, then the game becomes about the destined; you will encounter the more exotic. A character can only have so many abilities. As such to contend a greater variety of situations, you will need a greater variety of skills in the traveling group.

The skills are organized into trees. Every player begins with five skills. Every other level, a character can select a new skill. Skills in Parenthesis () appear elsewhere in the tree. Skills in Brackets [] are automatically acquired when the required skills are met. Some of these skills are self explanatory, but I'll go into greater later/on request.

Code: Select all

Break Even Gambler ┬> [Good Gambler] ┬> [Great Gambler] ┬> [Awesome Gambler] ┬> [House Taker]
Math Wiz -> Genius ┘            Liar ┤      Intimidator ┤           (Empath) ┘
  ┌> Librarian ┴> Sage               └> Actor           └> Bully
Book Worm -> Writer            (Beauty) ┴> [Star]
               ├> Forgery Artist
Drawer  ─>  Artist  ┬> Great Artist
                (Genius)

Potion Use ─> Potion Maker ─> Ether Maker
    │         Cook ┤ └> Heal Maker ┴> Full Restore Maker
    │    (Empath)  └> Vitamin Maker -> Stone Carver
    └> Medic ┴> Advanced Medic ┴> Retrainer ┴> [Evolutionist]
              (Move User) ┤
Patient Trainer ─> Empath ┴> [Move Teacher] ─> TM Making
 (Ghost/Psychic Type) ┴> Telepath ┬> Clairvoyant
                          (Ghost+Psychic Type)

Acorn Savant ─> Pokeball Maker ─> Great Ball Maker ─> Super Ball Maker
                    │   └>     Special Ball Maker      ┴> Master Ball Maker
           (Empath) ┴> Snag Ball Maker ┼> Thief Ball Maker
Computer User ─> Programmer ─> Hacker  ┘
Electrician ─> Circuitry ┴──┐
Mechanic    (Artist)        │     (Special Ball Maker)
   └> Engineer ┼> Architect ┴> Roboticist ┴> Mech Maker
           (Math Wiz)

   ┌> Seeker
   │     ├> [Detective]
Spotter  │    ┌> [Ranger]
   │  Sneaker ┤     ┌> Desert Nomad  ┐
   ├> Tracker ┤  ┌──┴> Tundra Walker ┼> [Survivor]
Wanderer ┬> Wildman ┬> [Mountaineer] ┘     │
      Athlete ─> Climber                   │    
         ├> Swimmer ┴>  Waterfall Climber  ┴> [Ultimate Survivor]
         │    ├> Surfer
         │    └> Rafter
         ├> Martial Artist ─> Move User*
         ├> Acrobat
         └> Skier

Pretty ─> Beauty ─> Gorgeous
  │  (Artist) ┼> Beautician
  │    │  (Patient Trainer)
  ├────┴> Fashion Designer
Clothes Maker ┬> Disguiser
           (Actor)    (Telepath)
              ├> Magician ┴> Illusionist
Juggler ┬> [Pick Pocket]
 (Poison/Dark Type)
I had a signature here once but I've since lost it.

My current project: http://tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=56456
User avatar
the_taken
Knight-Baron
Posts: 830
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: Lost in the Sea of Awesome

Post by the_taken »

The Wealth Stat and your Inventory

Different characters have differing amounts of cash in their pocket. The source of this money isn't too important. While the video games lets you easily keep track of you winnings and findings, it's simply too much work to keep track of at the gaming table, and it's far too much work for me to generate a massive number game for you.

The Wealth Stat is two numbers. A base stat which changes based on you character's level and how many badges he.she has acquired, which represents the allowance Mom mails to you, you winnings you receive from battles, and the amount of nuggets fate blesses you with. Then there's the current stat which is the base stat that has had modifiers applied to it. The base stat begins at 2, and increases at character levels 4, 8, 11, 14, 17, 20.

The idea behind the wealth stat is that you carry items, use them, then replace them back to town. Every time you go in to town and decide to stock up on items, chooses an item package based upon your modified wealth stat, then reset the modifiers to zero. Items you have remaining from the previous package are assumed to be traded in if necessary.

wealth 0 - You gonna have to go without eating for a while.
wealth 1 - You're not gonna starve, but you can't get a new Item Package. What ever you have remaining from the last one is what you've got.

Skill Descriptions

Acorn Savant - You have an understanding of the relationship between acorns and pokemon. For one day, you can attune an acorn to a specific wild pokemon. That pokemon must share at least one type with you, and must remain stationary while you attune the acorn. While attuned, the acorn counts as a pokeball for the attune pokemon, and you are the pokemon's trainer 'till the next sunrise, at which point the acorn turns to dust. Like with pokeballs, a pokemon can only be attuned to one acorn, and cannot be caught by a pokeball while so attuned.

Acrobat - You can jump up to places, climb ladders real fast and balance on bamboo shoots and cables.
Requires the Alhtlete skill.

Actor - You can pretend to be another character. While this isn't much use adventuring, it does grant a +1 modifier to your wealth stat if you perform in a production.
Requires the Liar skill.

Architect - You have a deep understanding of how buidlings are made, and can make them yourself. Adults use this skill to have a base wealth of (n), but for trainers, it means you have a better time finding secret passages or plan demolition.
Requires the Artist, Engineering and Math Wiz skills.

Athlete - Your in good shape. You can jog all day, stay afloat in water and climb all the stairs in a skyscraper without complaining.

Beautician - You can pretty up you pokemon and enter it into beauty contests, and doing so gives you a +1 modifier to your wealth stat from winning. You can also dress up your friends and make them look nice too.
Requires the Artist, Beauty and Patient Trainer Skills

Beauty - You know how to accentuate your fine features. People react favorably to you, at least 'till they get to know you.
Requires being Pretty first.

Book Worm - You spend a fair bit of time reading books. During certain situations, you can ask the game master for tidbits of knowledge people generally may not know.

Break Even Gambler - You can go into gambling situations and not take a wealth penalty. Higher levels of this skill provide bonuses to your wealth stat based upon their tier. Good Gambler, grants +1, Great Gambler +2, Awesome Gambler +3. House Taker provides a +5 bonus once per area, then the casino won't let you back in.

Bully - You concentrate on being a jerk and threatening people. If you wealth stat has been modified to less than 1, you can bring it back up to 1 by being a thug.
Requires the Intimidator skill.

Circuitry - You have an understanding of computer parts. You can repair lightly damaged computers, use makeshift parts, or even make shoddy space consuming circuitry. NPC uses this skill for jobs.
Requires the Electrician skill.

Clairvoyant - You can sometimes see the future, the past, or the present, places near and far. You can't get a true hold on specifics, but its better than your common senses in many ways.
Requires the Telepathy skill, and must be both a Psychic and Ghost type trainer.

Climber - Your good at climbing. No mountain is an obstacle, no incline too steep. Ladders, ropes, poles are as easy as level ground to traverse to you.

Clothes Maker - You can take materials such as thread, rope, or sheets of cloth, and make hats out of them. Spending time doing this.

Computer User - Your knowledge of computer software is more than rudimentary. You can trouble shoot glitches and handle databases. You can also change settings without messing things up.

Cook - You can make good food out of ingredients, and you often receive compliments for it.

Desert Nomad - You can live in the most hot and arid conditions indefinitely. May not be the most comfortable way to live, but you can manage. You can even help others do the same.
Requires the Wildman skill.

Detective - Not like Sherlock Holmes, more like Herman Jones. You can find clues while being sneaky.
You get this skill for free if you have both the Seeker and Sneaker skills.

Disguiser - You can someone look like someone else.
Requires the Actor and Clothes Maker skills.

Drawer - You're good at making pictures. If you can see it, you can put it one paper. Not awesome

Artist - You're really good at making pictures. Your mastery of colour and shape allows you to express things with imagery. Or maybe this is sculpting, or really good photography. Either way, selling the masterpiece gives you a +1 modifier on your wealth stat.
Requires the Drawer skill.

Great Artist - Skills that require the Artist skills become better, at the very least improving their wealth modifier by +1.

Electrician - You have a basic understanding of electricity and hardware that uses it. You can use this skill to fix broken wiring, or even set it up. You can also use an Electric type pokemon as a power source.

Empath - You can feel emotions with a sixth sense. This allows you to tell someone's mood immediately. You can also sense when someone or something has hostile intent nearby.
Requires the Patient Trainer Skill.

Engineer - You can make and repair heavy machinery. You may require spare parts to do so.
Requires the Mechanic skill.

Ether Maker - You can transform a potion in an item to replenish a pokemon's stamina.
Requires the Potion Maker skill.

Evolutionist - You can coerce a pokemon to evolve without a stone or levels.

Fashion Designer - Your sense of beauty and skill at sewing grants you the ability create wonderful outfits. People wearing these outfits are received better than people wearing rags, generally speaking. NPCs use this skill to earn a decent living.
Requires being Pretty, and the Clothes Making and Artist skills.

Forgery Artist - You can make fake legal documents that can fool most people.
Require the Artist and Writer skills.

Full Restore Maker - You can craft the coveted FUll Restore form an Ether and a Full Heal.

Genius - You are really good at doing math and other egg head type of stuff. You can back track dates in you head, do short division, count in exponents and figure out and geometry problems like a block puzzles. Also, any ability that requires the Math Wiz skill gets better,at the very least improving their wealth modifier by +1.
Requires the Math Wiz skill.

Gorgeous - You are really good at looking really good. Any skill that beneifts from the Beauty skill improves, at the very least improving their wealth modifier by +1.

Hacker - You can make computers do stuff people don't want them to do, like tell you the password, or open the door without the password. You can even do it without leaving a evidence of the hacking itself.

Heal Maker - You can make antidotes, burn heals, and other such items from everyday food stuff. If you have one of each of those, you can combine them to make Full Heals.

Illusionist - You can use you psychic powers to fool other people's senses. You can make them hear, see, feel or smell anything you want. You can use this to make really good magic shows, giving you a +3 wealth bonus.
Requires the Telepath and Magician skills.

Intimidator - You don't blink. You don't smile. You don't cry. Or atleast make people believe that. In any case, you're imposing, and have a knack for leveraging people's fears against them.

Juggler - You can keep throwing objects in the air and catching them.

Liar - You can say something, anything, and people often believe you.

Librarian - You have a collection of books. You have them organized. You also read them alot. Generally speaking, if ever someone wants to know something, you know where they can find it.
Require the Book Worm skill

Magician - You're skills at legerdemain are an impressive sight. Doing a performance gives you a +2 wealth bonus.
Requires the Pick Pocket and Artist skills.

Martial Artist - You're know how to fight. You're no Hitmonchan, but you not a to be trifled with. In a fight, you count as a Normal type pokemon with stats equal to your own, and you know the moves Tackle and Endure.
Requires the Athlete skill.

Math Wiz - Your good with numbers. They might not actually mean much.

Mech Maker - You can make big robotic vehicles. They have useless features like giant vacuum suction hoses, missiles, and vulcan cannons. But they are really cool and intimidating.

Mechanic - You can make an repair devices like pulleys, levers, door locks, and ramps.

Medic - You can patch up injuries, restoring health.
Requires the Potion Use skill.

Advanced Medic - You can heal serious injuries, restoring heal and removing status conditions.
Requires the Empathy and Medic skills.

Mountaineer - You can traverse rocky mountains as if they where paved cobblestone roads.
You get this skill for free if you have the Wildman and Climber Skills.

Move User - Chose a move that shares a type with you. You can perform that move in a fight as if you were a pokemon.
Requires the Martial Artist skill. You may learn this skill multiple times, choosing a new move each time.

Move Teacher - You can teach any pokemon any move you know, if it can learn that move.
You get this skill for free if you have the Empath skill.

Patient Trainer - You take the time to understand your pokemon thoroughly between fights. They generally like you more and more as time goes by.

Pick Pocket - You can steal loose change off of people without being noticed. Doing so nets you a +1 modifier to your wealth stat once, but repeated use will get you caught.
Requires the Juggler skill and must either be a Dark or Posion type.

Pokeball Maker - You can make Pokeballs from some mirrors, two hemisheres, a some pokemon tags, some acorn powder, and a small amount of phlebotinum.
Requires the Acorn Savant skill.

Special Ball Maker - You can make special pokeballs that are really good at catching certain types of pokemon. These special balls gives the defending wild pokemon a -4 penalty to it's rolls when trying to break free of the ball, if it's type matches one of your own.

Great Ball Maker - You can make Great Balls, better pokeballs, but requiring more phlebotinum, and some arbitrarium. Also, your if you can make special balls or snag balls, they use the Great Ball for base stats.
Requires the Pokeball Maker skill.

Super Ball Maker - You can make Superballs, even better pokeballs, but doing use requires large amounts of phlebotinum, arbitrarium, and aesoptinum. If you can make special balls or snag balls, they use the Super Ball for base stats.
Requires the Great Ball Maker skill.

Master Ball Maker - You can make the legendary Master Ball, able to catch any pokemon without fail. This requires pokeball parts, 10 acres of oak trees ground into sawdust, the blood of a doughnut, the blessings of a Buddhist monk, and must be struck by a katana channeling astral lightning for power.
Requires the Super Ball Maker and Special Ball Maker skills.

Potion Maker - You can turn water into wine. But you can't drink it because you're underage. Your pokemon can, and it restores their health.
Requires the Potion Use skill

Potion Use - You can use everyday food stuff to restore the health of you pokemon.

Pretty - Your good looking. People react favorably towards you.

Programmer - You can make computers do stuff other people can't comprehend.

Rafter - You can put planks of wood together (or other floaty stuff) and move across water bodies without getting wet.
Requires the Swimmer skill.

Ranger - You can keep track of an area of wilderness, knowing how many pokemon there are there, for as long as you live there.
You get this skill for free is you have the Tracker, Sneaker and Wildman skills.

Retrainer - By spending alot of time with a pokemon, you can rearrange its stats and even teach it new moves.

Roboticist - You can make and repair complex machinery. These robots are stationary and require an outside power source.
Requires the Architect, Circuitry and Programmer Skills.

Sage - If it's not a secret, you know it. You're also have permission act as is you have an ornery weedle up you butt.

Seeker - You notice things around you other people often overlook. If someone is trying to be sneeky, you'll notice.
Requires the Spotter skill.

Skier - Using a solid sheet if material, you can go downhill really fast, and do it really cool.
Requires the Athlete skill.

Snag Ball Maker - You can make the Snag Ball, a special pokeball capable of overriding another trainer's ownership of a pokemon, if said pokemon is a Shadow pokemon.
Requires the Empathy and Pokeball Maker skills.

Sneaker - You can be in places and get by people without drawing attention. Doesn't always work, but generally if nobody is expecting anyone, you'll go unnoticed.

Spotter - If you apply yourself, you can see things others miss. A magnifying glass or a telescope often helps, but generally, if you're looking for something and it's there, you'll find it.

Star - You are a really good actor. You are sought out for movies, TV and theater productions. Performing in them get you a +2 modifier to your wealth stat.
You get this skill for free if you have the Actor and Beauty skills.

Stone Carver - You can make evolutionary stones from their composite ores.
Requires the Vitamin Maker skill.

Surfer - Using a solid sheet of any material, you can ride the waves and look really cool doing it. You can enter surfing contests and gain a +1 wealth bonus when you do. You also learn the move Surf as if you where a pokemon.
Requires the Swimmer skill.

Survivor - You can live off the land indefinitely, and reach anywhere with great logistics.
You can this skill for free if you have the Desert Nomad, Tundra Walker and Mountaineer skills.

Ultimate Survivor - You can breath underwater and eat cold poison.
You can this skill for free if you have the Waterfall Climber and Survivor Skills.

Swimmer - You can swim really good. Water bodies are not an impediment to you.
Require the Athlete skill.

Telepath - You can read the thoughts of others. This isn't simple, but you can outright tell when others are lying, unless they are also a telepath. You're also really good at giving people impressions and vague feelings.
Requires the Empathy skill and must be either a Ghost or Psychic type.

Thief Ball Maker - You can make the forbidden Thief Ball, which can override another trainer's ownership of a pokemon and make it your own.
Requires the Hacker, Special Ball Maker and Snag Ball Maker skills.

TM Making - You can make technical machines that allow anyone to teach a pokemon a move you know without you being present. Or even alive... Doing so requires a bunch of materials, and some complex machinery.
Requires the Move Teacher skill.

Tracker - You can follow people without seeing them.
Requires the Wanderer skill.

Tundra Walker - You can live in the most cold and arid conditions indefinitely. May not be the most comfortable way to live, but you can manage. You can even help others do the same.
Requires the Wildman skill.

Vitamin Maker - You can fashion vitamins and stat boosters from common foodstuff and plants you find in the woods.
Requires the Cook and Potion Maker skills.

Wanderer - You have an understanding of the patterns of civilization. No matter where you go, you know where to find basic food and shelter. Your base wealth stat increases by 1, and no matter the modifiers, it never drops below 1.

Waterfall Climber - You can swim in dangerous waters, like torrential floods, offshore hurrican storms and up waterfalls.
Requires the Climber and Swimmer skills.

Wildman - You can live in the woods no problem. You can fashion shelter from materials you can find anywhere.

Writer - You're creativity is tuned to expressing yourself using literary means. You can write novels, and completing one increases you base wealth by 1 for one session, from collecting royalties. Simply state the synopsis to the game master.

------

Comments/suggestions?
I had a signature here once but I've since lost it.

My current project: http://tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=56456
Surgo
Duke
Posts: 1924
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Surgo »

Some of these things seem like basic things that every trainer ought to be able to do. Athlete, Computer User, possibly Wildman and/or Survivor (those two seem pretty redundant anyway).

Also, where is Psychic?
User avatar
the_taken
Knight-Baron
Posts: 830
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: Lost in the Sea of Awesome

Post by the_taken »

Surgo wrote:Some of these things seem like basic things that every trainer ought to be able to do. Athlete, Computer User, possibly Wildman and/or Survivor (those two seem pretty redundant anyway).
You'd be surprised what some people don't know, even after being exposed to those kinda things. Using a computer may seem intuitive, but consider accessing the internet using windows 3.1. This is a society that cares more about having pokemon battles than bettering itself. All technical research goes towards having better pokemon battles.
Remember, these people just about walk everywhere, and have carrier pidgeys as a viable mail service.

Consider this daunting situation: You are new in town. You have no money, no job, and no food. What do you do?
This is kinda thing some trainers (likely the PCs) have to face. Knowing that there's always a hostel or something where you can plop down for a day or two while you find a job isn't something every one knows, and they'll waste time and money getting a hotel room.

Try this one: You've just parachuted out of burning plane into northern BC. You haven't seen civilization for hours before that. What do you do?
This ones much harder, and I'm not even confident I could manage this situation, especially since it's illegal to bring certain survival equipment on planes. But understand that some of these kids will seek out these wild areas for a chance to capture a rare or powerful pokemon.

In any case, I think I'm going to need a bigger skill system... any ideas?
Also, where is Psychic?
Right Here
I had a signature here once but I've since lost it.

My current project: http://tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=56456
Surgo
Duke
Posts: 1924
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Surgo »

the_taken wrote:
Surgo wrote:Some of these things seem like basic things that every trainer ought to be able to do. Athlete, Computer User, possibly Wildman and/or Survivor (those two seem pretty redundant anyway).
You'd be surprised what some people don't know, even after being exposed to those kinda things. Using a computer may seem intuitive, but consider accessing the internet using windows 3.1. This is a society that cares more about having pokemon battles than bettering itself. All technical research goes towards having better pokemon battles.
Remember, these people just about walk everywhere, and have carrier pidgeys as a viable mail service.
That's fine and all, but this is Pokemon. Which means that you're on a quest to be the very best. You're not going to be the very best if you can't make it through Viridian Forest, so that sort of skill is something that literally every player is going to have. It shouldn't even be an option.

As for basic computer use, that is also a skill that everyone who is sitting down at the table to be the very best is going to have. Remember that's how you store and retrieve both pokemon and items.

If you can't conceivably be without the skill and still be the very best, it shouldn't be an option.


As far as your answer to my question of "where's Psychic", you know that's not what I meant. There are psychics in the world of Pokemon (as early as Red and Blue), they need to be represented somehow.
User avatar
the_taken
Knight-Baron
Posts: 830
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: Lost in the Sea of Awesome

Post by the_taken »

Surgo wrote:That's fine and all, but this is Pokemon. Which means that you're on a quest to be the very best. You're not going to be the very best if you can't make it through Viridian Forest, so that sort of skill is something that literally every player is going to have. It shouldn't even be an option.

...

If you can't conceivably be without the skill and still be the very best, it shouldn't be an option.
Point.
As for basic computer use, that is also a skill that everyone who is sitting down at the table to be the very best is going to have. Remember that's how you store and retrieve both pokemon and items.
Er... I was going to consider that rudimentary knowledge. Having computer user would have allowed you to set up macros, apps and GUI enhancements to you box.

Try this: press ctrl + alt + let arrow key. This is going to change something. If you can figure out how to undo, you have the Computer User skill. If you have to physically move your computer to compensate, you don't.

BTW, this is a great prank to play on school computers.

As far as your answer to my question of "where's Psychic", you know that's not what I meant. There are psychics in the world of Pokemon (as early as Red and Blue), they need to be represented somehow.
Actually, I don't know what you mean now. If by "Psychic" you mean predicting the future, the Clairvoyant skill is supposed to handle that. If you mean "telekinetic powah!" then becoming a move user and having the Psychic type emulates that. and if you want "mind fucking" then you can be a ghost and poison trainer then pursue the Illusionist skill.

I think I need more type specific skills...
I had a signature here once but I've since lost it.

My current project: http://tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=56456
Surgo
Duke
Posts: 1924
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Surgo »

Ah, okay, so you can become a move user and have the Psychic type. I wasn't getting that before; now I have it.
Post Reply