Why are most official artifacts so uninteresting?

Chamomile · Post by **Chamomile** » Sat Jun 13, 2015 2:19 am

There is a story where the Lady of the Lake makes fun of Arthur for assuming that Excalibur is the gift, when in fact Excalibur is just a pretty nice sword but the scabbard it came with makes you invincible. So Excalibur's being kind of a useless artifact was evident even in the 15th century.

Stinktopus · Post by **Stinktopus** » Sat Jun 13, 2015 2:23 am

Wiseman,

I like your Sword of Megadeath. I could see a campaign where the party goes on a quest to be granted the sword, then uses it to off some baddie far above their weight class. Of course, I would probably seriously encourage them to return the sword to heaven once that job was accomplished.

Many neckbeards would probably be upset that it doesn't have any drawback.

hogarth · Post by **hogarth** » Sat Jun 13, 2015 5:12 am

8d8 wrote:What are some examples of really cool artifacts that aren't boring and underpowered?

The "War of the Burning Sky" D&D adventure path has its share of problems, but I have to give the authors credit for (a) having a pretty bad-ass artifact and (b) actually letting the PCs use it for a good chunk of the campaign (in a slightly weakened form, to begin with).

The Torch of the Burning Sky has the ability to teleport any creatures visibile within a 1 mile radius to any place where the sun is shining (DC 40 Will save negates), which is nothing to sneeze at. It's also a +5 flaming burst ghost touch keen vicious battleaxe, allows 150' of swift action teleportation at will, and some other yada yada yada.

nockermensch · Post by **nockermensch** » Sat Jun 13, 2015 3:06 pm

Lord Mistborn wrote:I thought the defining feature of an Artifact was that they're uncraftable.

It's not that they're uncraftable, it's that they're uncraftable by you. The whole deal about artifacts is that they are "remains from the great old days".

You can recognize low-magic settings when it's implied that every permanent magic item is like that.

silva · Post by **silva** » Sat Jun 13, 2015 3:26 pm

hogarth wrote:
8d8 wrote:What are some examples of really cool artifacts that aren't boring and underpowered?
The "War of the Burning Sky" D&D adventure path has its share of problems, but I have to give the authors credit for (a) having a pretty bad-ass artifact and (b) actually letting the PCs use it for a good chunk of the campaign (in a slightly weakened form, to begin with).

The Torch of the Burning Sky has the ability to teleport any creatures visibile within a 1 mile radius to any place where the sun is shining (DC 40 Will save negates), which is nothing to sneeze at. It's also a +5 flaming burst ghost touch keen vicious battleaxe, allows 150' of swift action teleportation at will, and some other yada yada yada.

This is a pretty good one. Just give it a evocative history and you're good to go.

By the way, you could also create its history first, and then go forward to create its effects based on that.

Earthdawn had a neat system of artifact creation where you unlocked an artifact powers gradativelly as more of its history you got to know.

Bill Bisco: Isometric Imp · Sat Jun 13, 2015 5:19 pm

Artifacts are boring because their effects suck. The designers were too afraid to make powerful artifacts that adventurers would actually want to bother obtaining. It's a variant of Fighters can't have nice things because when they thinknof artifacts they think through the vantage point of a vanilla boring fighter.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Sat Jun 13, 2015 8:17 pm

No one cares about artifacts anyway. Since you get what the DM says that you get to begin with, you may as well get something homebrewed on the spot for all of the good it'll do you. The best they can do is serve as guidelines, but as noted in this thread if the game designers are too afraid to give PCs something too powerful, why would the DM be any different? Even if you do have a DM-insertable artifact that did whatever paradigm-refining cool shit you could come up with, what exactly stops them from them just saying 'lol no' and giving you a Sword of Kas or some shit?

Slade · Post by **Slade** » Sun Jun 14, 2015 12:57 am

In Core, I still like the Shadowstaff. Don't know why it is counts as a majot not a minor though.

+4 AC/reflex that stacks with everything: Neat. Except in Bright light: bad
Shadow Bolt: Neat ray attack.
Summoning goodness.

Would totally use.

Shield of the Sun: grants spells as a if a 20th level Paladin with 20 Wis (Use Magic Device gets around alignment problems). Stacks with preexisting spells if a Paladin.
Neat item.

Talisman of Reluctant Wishes: hard to say depends on power level of campaign if useful.

Judging__Eagle · Post by **Judging__Eagle** » Sun Jun 14, 2015 1:29 am

[Someone beat me to the punch; but I want to point out how an actual artifact is treated; while simply powerful magic items are so much chaff]

Stinktopus wrote:
Excalibur is a shitty artifact because it doesn't seem to do anything a normal sword doesn't outside of sticking in rocks really well, then ID locking.

Excalibur is the shitty artifact because it was the shitty artifact.

Arthur didn't even sleep with Excalibur at his side; it was on a pedestal at his bedside or on his camp-tent throne; or something when he slept. It got even gets stolen.

What is the real magical artifact is the scabbard of immortality[/i] that comes with a Ruining(i.e. from BoG) Arming Blade as a side benefit; and the throne of England as a curse-price.

Merlin seriously makes fun of Arthur for not appreciating the scabbard as being equal to 7 (or 10?) excaliburs; and tells him to never let it leave his side.

That comes in handy when Excalibur is stolen and replaced with a fake; and the real deal is used against Arthur in a duel. Fortunately, he always sleeps with the scabbard in his hands; the only thing he learned from Merlin about the scabbard's value helps him survive losing the "perfect" sword. The scabbard keeps Arthur's wounds closed, and his body healed; and eventually he tires out his enemy after three days of dueling; and getting the stabbed in the face every single day he's fighting against his former sword.

nockermensch · Post by **nockermensch** » Mon Jun 15, 2015 4:23 pm

Lago PARANOIA wrote:No one cares about artifacts anyway. Since you get what the DM says that you get to begin with, you may as well get something homebrewed on the spot for all of the good it'll do you.

Part of the appeal of crunchy RPGs like D&D is that you want to brag about your character build afterwards. And just like nobody will brag that they enabled the cheat console in Baldur's Gate and gave themselves STR 25 and 10 million EXP, nobody in D&D wants to talk about cool shit their characters did because the DM handed a god-mode artifact.

souran · Post by **souran** » Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:01 pm

Artficats suffer from the same issue as setting NPCs and setting books that spend time describing interesting locations.

Artifcats need to be able to be used, to do stuff that people would care about, and be part of the story to not seem like overpriced magic items. They have to be a mcguffin that is worth focusing a story on. The Orbs of dragonkind are a pretty decent artifact that is the sort of thing a kindom might actually wage war over because it lets you control gigantic flying death beasts. Compare to the hand and eye of vecna which while creepy don't do anything that anybody doesn't pretty much do in D&D without them.

Similarly, if you release a setting with some named NPCs those NPCs should be used in your adventure paths and other materials. They need to be used carefully so they don't overshadow PCs, but don't waste time on making fake people if you are never going to encounter said fake people.

Same thing with spooky places and long lost legends. Chekhov's Gun applies to your RPG design as well. If all the interesting places you hve put on the map are irrelevant to the adventures you want to tell then why did you bother with them? Inserting new bullshit is less useful than linking to bullshit you have already tried to make me care about.

Antumbra · Post by **Antumbra** » Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:08 pm

There's an old 3rd party book called Relics by Alderac Entertainment that had some nice examples, with short little backstories and many with unique powers that didn't shy away from story-defining power.

Example: http://i.imgur.com/cup8PLE.jpg http://i.imgur.com/0pUSREt.jpg

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sun Jun 21, 2015 4:05 am

Just an idea I'm toying with for my campaign.

The Earthen Philatory
Obsidian is well known for it's use in necromantic rituals and spells. The exact cause of this is unknown, but it is believed by some to have some relation to this artifact.
Extensive scrying, legend lore, and divine inquiry has through much effort revealed that the Earthen Philatory was the result of a rare confluence of disasters. Eons ago, when mortal races were mere lumps of divine clay or just beginning to consider leaving their prehistoric niches, a major bleed opened between the Prime Material plane and the plane of Negative Energy. Aside from the influx of powerful undead which stocked the prime and may have even introduced undeath to the prime, the bleed also happened to occur at the same time as a volcanic eruption of the prime.
The energy of death infused the volcano, seeping into the rocks, the ash, and even the magma. As the magma cooled, it became obsidian and basalt.
Most of this necrotic obsidian became simple tainted obsidian or was eventually rendered into black sand, but for one piece.
This large piece, about two feet tall, and a eight inches in diameter, with a vague shape of a domed cylinder, emanates a dim energy and when observed closely in very bright light, seems to contain swirls and shapes that coalesce into hateful and hungry visages.
The Earthen Philatory fuses necromantic and earth magic into one focus, acting as an unlimited use spell completion item for a number of spells, and the energy it emanates dims the light around it by one step out to a 40' radius.
More interestingly, however, is that the Earth's Philatory allows one to use to any Necromantic Creation feat, and animate fossils as Revived Fossils regardless of their hit dice. Any undead created with the Earth's Philatory also gains the Elemental Creature template with the benefits of both fire and earth (they stay an undead, however).

Could probably be more interesting, and obviously needs a list of spells it acts like a scroll of, but it's a start. Hell, the campaign is starting at 4th level, and the most use this will really be is making a Tarrasque Revived Fossil or something, assuming the players don't beat the druid antagonist before they get it.

hogarth · Post by **hogarth** » Sun Jun 21, 2015 11:12 pm

Antumbra wrote:There's an old 3rd party book called Relics by Alderac Entertainment that had some nice examples, with short little backstories and many with unique powers that didn't shy away from story-defining power.

Example: http://i.imgur.com/cup8PLE.jpg http://i.imgur.com/0pUSREt.jpg

The mirror I'd probably just use to whip up 9 Luckblades with 3 wishes and then cash in my 27 wishes for some nice stuff.

The book is some monkey's paw bullshit that only a GM could love.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sun Jun 21, 2015 11:28 pm

So, it's a magic television that runs on awakened chicks. Ok then.

Wiseman · Post by **Wiseman** » Mon Jun 22, 2015 12:00 am

Seeker of Knowledge [Artifact]:
This owl-like mask appears to be made out of some sort of crystal. When worn, it covers the top portion of the face and makes the eye-holes appear like empty voids. The mask is intricately shaped, and several runes are carved into it, though not even it's wearer can identify them.
The wearer of this Suncryst mask is under permanent True Seeing, Investigate Portal, Analyze Dweomer, Find Traps, Discern Bloodline, Sreip's Haste Vision, Detect Aberrations, Detect Disease, Detect Poison, Detect Mineral (reveals all minerals), Detect Secret Doors, Detect Undead, Discern Shapechanger, Ell's Magic Timepiece, Scholar's Touch, Appraising Touch, Tongues, Comprehend Languages, Understand Object, Understand Device, Commune with Nature, Commune with Earth, Weather Eye, Analyze Touchstone, Know Vulnerabilities, Detect Animals or Plants, Detect Snares and Pits, Detect Heat, See Through Fog, Detect Fire, Know Direction, Detect Crossroads, Living Prints, and Greater Arcane Sight effects. All of these go out to line of sight (except when they would go further, and the range of these effects is tripled), are at CL20, and any effects that depend on the number of rounds concentrating give information as if the user had been concentrating for the maximum number of rounds. Any effects that have targets may target any number of valid things in the users line of sight (except when otherwise would be better). They may attempt a Scan on any number of creatures they can see as a free action once per round per target and receive information on anyone and anything they can see as per a Legend Lore spell. These effects ignore immunity to divinations. Additionally, the wearer is immune to gaze attacks and they gain a +5 sacred bonus to knowledge checks. They also gain the spells and granted power of the Knowledge domain. If they cast spells, they gain an extra domain slot in which to prepare or spontaneously cast them. If they don't cast spells, they gain the domain as if it were a sphere with basic access (any save DCs are determined by 10+1/2HD+highest mental ability modifier). Finally, the bearer may use Foresight and Hindsight as spell-like abilities each once per day at CL20 as a standard action.
History: Crafted by the Goddess Cereseta upon her ascension to godhood and used to analyze the Elder Darkness' weaknesses to aid her sisters in combat. Now, it lies hidden somewhere in the swamps of Belierin, waiting for a worthy scholar to aquire it once again.

So another Artifact. Not sure if this is too much, but it feels like a scholars tool.