I'm starting a game of Shadowrun in a couple of weeks with a crowd that's pretty new to roleplaying and completely new to Shadowrun.
Some issues:
One-- the matrix really, really confuses me. I know you had a reformation of the rules somewhere.
Also, on karma vs Build Points:
I understand why the dual systems are unbalanced, but I kind of like some of the effects. Especially since I have several ex-corp characters. I dig how the system encourages characters to start solid in thier specialties and to pick up basic adventuring skills (stealth, perception, etc.) in the first few runs. I also like how having one ro two low-end skills you don't end up using doesn't fuck over your character, and you can pick up some "fluff abilities."
I don't like how you get more power in the future the more unbalanced your character sarts out. Questions: is there any way to reconcile the two systems? And if I just use build points, should I be concerned about other similar effects (like how alphaware is a pay now, buy later investment, or the bizarre way Adept Powers ineract with normal advancement)
Shadowrun Redux
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Username17
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Rar!
Character Creation and Advancement
Karma Does Not Exist
When your character succeeds and gets bling, it will come in the form of extra Build Points. These are spent at exactly the same rate as when you begin play. Exceptions:
You cannot purchase ¥ with post-character generation BP, nor can you sell ¥ for BP later on.
Contacts are acquired in-game and not with BP once the game has begun.
Skills are Half Price
Skills cost 2 BP
Skill Groups cost 5 BP
Specializations cost 1 BP
Knowledge Skills cost 1 BP
Merry Christmas.
Starting maximums are still one 6 or two 5s. You can commute raising a Skill Group, meaning that if you purchase up one skill out of a Skill group you can raise the rest of them up one for 3 BP. If you raise two Skills out of the group, you can raise the remaining skills for just 1 BP – exactly as if you had just purchased the whole group at once.
Eventually characters can raise their skills to 7 for double cost. The augmented maximum of your skill is always skill +3 rather than Skill x 1.5.
Attributes are Not
Attributes still cost 10 BP per point and you can still throw down up to 200 BP into your Mental and Physical Attributes. Edge and Magic are, of course, Special Attributes and don't apply to that limit.
We are using a less painful methodology for raising attributes. Your natural maximum in Magic only ever costs 10 BP. Raising any other attributes to the natural maximum costs 20 BP. Characters can raise their attributes past the normal maximum for 20 points each. This also raises their personal natural maximum and augmented maximum accordingly.
Varying Costs of Other Things
Contacts: A contact costs a number of “contact points” equal to its Loyalty times its Connections. You get 3 Contact points for a BP at character generation. This means that a 6/6 Contact still costs 12 actual BP, but a 3/3 Contact only costs 3 BP. This is to encourage people to know more less impressive people.
¥ Nuyen ¥: If we're playing at 400 BP starting, characters can get 7000¥ for 1 BP (cap is still 50 BP). If we are playing at 350, the exchange rate is still 5000¥ per BP.
Qualities and Races
You can take up to 35 BP of negative qualities, and up to 35 BP of positive qualities at character generation. You can purchase qualities later on with permission, but there has to be a reason. As normal.
Aspected Magicians
You can use the Aspected Magicians rules that I wrote. Aspected Magician is a positive quality which is taken instead of Magician, Adept, Mystic Adept, or Astral Sight (which is also removed altogether under this system because it is dumb). Aspected Magicians excel in their field of magic, ad this is represented by starting play as a Grade 1 Initiate with a metamagic of their choice. Unless otherwise stated, they are like Magicians. The types are as follows:
Aspected Conjurers Cannot learn Sorcery skills, cast spells, or provide Counterspelling. They can astrally perceive but cannot astrally project. They can can use other magic skills (most notably conjuring skills). This quality costs 10 points.
Aspected Sorcerers Cannot learn Conjuring skills, summon spirits, or Banish. They can astrally perceive but cannot astrally project. They can can use other magic skills (most notably Sorcery skills). This quality costs 10 points.
Path Aspect Must choose 2 categories of Magic and the associated spirits according to their tradition. The character may only cast spells or summon spirits of those two categories/types. They may still use Banishing and Counterspelling against any target. They may still conjure Watchers and Allies. They can astrally perceive but cannot astrally project. This quality costs 10 points.
Astral Aspect Cannot cast any spells on Physical Targets, nor can they conjure any spirit that has Possession or Materialization (Watchers are still OK). They can still cast Mana spells on Astral Targets. The threshold for their Assensing tests is reduced by 1. This quality costs 5 points.
Some Qualities Don't Exist
We're looking at you Aptitude, Exceptional Attribute, and Lucky. The rules for exceeding normal caps are much less stringent, so these qualities don't do anything.
Metatypes and Cost
Ork, Elf, or Dwarf: 25 BP
Troll: 35 BP
Ghouls
Ghoul (30 BP):
B: 5/10
A: 1/6
R: 3/8
S: 4/9
C: 1/4
I: 2/7
L: 1/5
W: 3/8
Edg: 1/6
Ess: 5
M: 1/5
Movement: 10/25
Powers:
Dual Natured, Enhanced Senses (Hearing, Smell), Natural Weapon (Claws: S/2 + 1), Resistance (+3 dice vs. Disease)
Ghouls get the following Negative Qualities and gain no BPs for them (these do not count against the 35 BP limit):
Allergy (Sunlight, Mild), Dark Secret (Ghoul), Dietary Requirement (Metahuman Flesh), Reduced Senses (Blind).
Other Rules
Hardened Armor
Hardened Armor provides automatic damage reduction hits. It is also half the size it appears at in the basic book. That means that a Force 6 Spirit has Immunity to Normal Weapons that provides 6 automatic hits soaking damage. AP still reduces Hardened Armor.
Recoil
Rather than equating number of bullets to recoil directly (which oddly punishes machine pistols and boosts assault cannons), a weapon has a minimum strength. The base Strength Minimum of a weapon is the base DV-2. Most recoil modifiers in the book don't apply. The following do, however:
A Shape which exacerbates recoil increases Strength Minimum by 1 (example: Holdout pistols).
A Shape which mitigates recoil decreases Strength Minimum by 1 (example: Rifle)
A Short Burst increases Strength Minimum by 1.
A Long Burst increases Strength Minimum by 2. (not inclusive)
Full Auto increases Strength Minimum by 3. (not inclusive)
Firing from Prone or otherwise braced decreases Strength Minimum by 1.
Using a Bipod or Tripod decreases Strength Minimum by 2.
A Gyromount or Gun Emplacement decreases Strength Minimum by 3. (not inclusive)
A Gas Vent System is incompatible with a sound suppressor and reduces Strength Minimum by 1 (there are no long multiple levels of those things).
Every point that the weapon exceeds your Strength Minimum gives a -1 penalty to firing the weapon and a -2 penalty to all other dice pools you have for the rest of the turn (not just the action). Drones and such use their Body as their Strength, and fall over if their Strength Minimum is exceeded.
Conjuring Drain
The drain on Conjuring is ½ Force + Spirit's Hits.
-Username17
Karma Does Not Exist
When your character succeeds and gets bling, it will come in the form of extra Build Points. These are spent at exactly the same rate as when you begin play. Exceptions:
You cannot purchase ¥ with post-character generation BP, nor can you sell ¥ for BP later on.
Contacts are acquired in-game and not with BP once the game has begun.
Skills are Half Price
Skills cost 2 BP
Skill Groups cost 5 BP
Specializations cost 1 BP
Knowledge Skills cost 1 BP
Merry Christmas.
Starting maximums are still one 6 or two 5s. You can commute raising a Skill Group, meaning that if you purchase up one skill out of a Skill group you can raise the rest of them up one for 3 BP. If you raise two Skills out of the group, you can raise the remaining skills for just 1 BP – exactly as if you had just purchased the whole group at once.
Eventually characters can raise their skills to 7 for double cost. The augmented maximum of your skill is always skill +3 rather than Skill x 1.5.
Attributes are Not
Attributes still cost 10 BP per point and you can still throw down up to 200 BP into your Mental and Physical Attributes. Edge and Magic are, of course, Special Attributes and don't apply to that limit.
We are using a less painful methodology for raising attributes. Your natural maximum in Magic only ever costs 10 BP. Raising any other attributes to the natural maximum costs 20 BP. Characters can raise their attributes past the normal maximum for 20 points each. This also raises their personal natural maximum and augmented maximum accordingly.
Varying Costs of Other Things
Contacts: A contact costs a number of “contact points” equal to its Loyalty times its Connections. You get 3 Contact points for a BP at character generation. This means that a 6/6 Contact still costs 12 actual BP, but a 3/3 Contact only costs 3 BP. This is to encourage people to know more less impressive people.
¥ Nuyen ¥: If we're playing at 400 BP starting, characters can get 7000¥ for 1 BP (cap is still 50 BP). If we are playing at 350, the exchange rate is still 5000¥ per BP.
Qualities and Races
You can take up to 35 BP of negative qualities, and up to 35 BP of positive qualities at character generation. You can purchase qualities later on with permission, but there has to be a reason. As normal.
Aspected Magicians
You can use the Aspected Magicians rules that I wrote. Aspected Magician is a positive quality which is taken instead of Magician, Adept, Mystic Adept, or Astral Sight (which is also removed altogether under this system because it is dumb). Aspected Magicians excel in their field of magic, ad this is represented by starting play as a Grade 1 Initiate with a metamagic of their choice. Unless otherwise stated, they are like Magicians. The types are as follows:
Aspected Conjurers Cannot learn Sorcery skills, cast spells, or provide Counterspelling. They can astrally perceive but cannot astrally project. They can can use other magic skills (most notably conjuring skills). This quality costs 10 points.
Aspected Sorcerers Cannot learn Conjuring skills, summon spirits, or Banish. They can astrally perceive but cannot astrally project. They can can use other magic skills (most notably Sorcery skills). This quality costs 10 points.
Path Aspect Must choose 2 categories of Magic and the associated spirits according to their tradition. The character may only cast spells or summon spirits of those two categories/types. They may still use Banishing and Counterspelling against any target. They may still conjure Watchers and Allies. They can astrally perceive but cannot astrally project. This quality costs 10 points.
Astral Aspect Cannot cast any spells on Physical Targets, nor can they conjure any spirit that has Possession or Materialization (Watchers are still OK). They can still cast Mana spells on Astral Targets. The threshold for their Assensing tests is reduced by 1. This quality costs 5 points.
Some Qualities Don't Exist
We're looking at you Aptitude, Exceptional Attribute, and Lucky. The rules for exceeding normal caps are much less stringent, so these qualities don't do anything.
Metatypes and Cost
Ork, Elf, or Dwarf: 25 BP
Troll: 35 BP
Ghouls
Ghoul (30 BP):
B: 5/10
A: 1/6
R: 3/8
S: 4/9
C: 1/4
I: 2/7
L: 1/5
W: 3/8
Edg: 1/6
Ess: 5
M: 1/5
Movement: 10/25
Powers:
Dual Natured, Enhanced Senses (Hearing, Smell), Natural Weapon (Claws: S/2 + 1), Resistance (+3 dice vs. Disease)
Ghouls get the following Negative Qualities and gain no BPs for them (these do not count against the 35 BP limit):
Allergy (Sunlight, Mild), Dark Secret (Ghoul), Dietary Requirement (Metahuman Flesh), Reduced Senses (Blind).
Other Rules
Hardened Armor
Hardened Armor provides automatic damage reduction hits. It is also half the size it appears at in the basic book. That means that a Force 6 Spirit has Immunity to Normal Weapons that provides 6 automatic hits soaking damage. AP still reduces Hardened Armor.
Recoil
Rather than equating number of bullets to recoil directly (which oddly punishes machine pistols and boosts assault cannons), a weapon has a minimum strength. The base Strength Minimum of a weapon is the base DV-2. Most recoil modifiers in the book don't apply. The following do, however:
A Shape which exacerbates recoil increases Strength Minimum by 1 (example: Holdout pistols).
A Shape which mitigates recoil decreases Strength Minimum by 1 (example: Rifle)
A Short Burst increases Strength Minimum by 1.
A Long Burst increases Strength Minimum by 2. (not inclusive)
Full Auto increases Strength Minimum by 3. (not inclusive)
Firing from Prone or otherwise braced decreases Strength Minimum by 1.
Using a Bipod or Tripod decreases Strength Minimum by 2.
A Gyromount or Gun Emplacement decreases Strength Minimum by 3. (not inclusive)
A Gas Vent System is incompatible with a sound suppressor and reduces Strength Minimum by 1 (there are no long multiple levels of those things).
Every point that the weapon exceeds your Strength Minimum gives a -1 penalty to firing the weapon and a -2 penalty to all other dice pools you have for the rest of the turn (not just the action). Drones and such use their Body as their Strength, and fall over if their Strength Minimum is exceeded.
Conjuring Drain
The drain on Conjuring is ½ Force + Spirit's Hits.
-Username17
I found your hacking revision. It makes sense, but seems to make things even more complicated. It also appears to make hackers more powerful, though maybe that's just because I didn't understand what hackers were already capable of.
Why do some spirits have Flight, if none of them are affected by gravity?
Why do some spirits have Flight, if none of them are affected by gravity?
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Username17
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It's a total overhaul. Once you wrap your mind around it, there's a lot less dice rolling involved.Boolean wrote:I found your hacking revision. It makes sense, but seems to make things even more complicated. It also appears to make hackers more powerful, though maybe that's just because I didn't understand what hackers were already capable of.
1. Possession and Inhabitation spirits are affected by gravity.Why do some spirits have Flight, if none of them are affected by gravity?
2. The fact that you can air walk doesn't mean that a set of wings isn't useful.
-Username17
Is there a way to encourage people to pick up basic levels of perception, infiltration, eitquette, etc.? It seems like, with all skill rated equally, a magician would *always* be better off with another die of a casting skill.
I still don't understand the difference between flight and what materialized spirits already do. does "most spirits stay earthbound or close to it" mean that they can't actually fly, just Phantom Mount it?
Do you let people specialize skills in skill groups? That seems consistent with your other rules, but a *huge* power boost for starting runners.
Would it be alright to give some free contacts by starting charisma?
Astral Sight is shit. It's exactly like being an Adept and taking Astral Perception, except without advancement opportunities. Knacks are pretty sketchy too... it's only 5 points cheaper than Mystic Adept.
I still don't understand the difference between flight and what materialized spirits already do. does "most spirits stay earthbound or close to it" mean that they can't actually fly, just Phantom Mount it?
Do you let people specialize skills in skill groups? That seems consistent with your other rules, but a *huge* power boost for starting runners.
Would it be alright to give some free contacts by starting charisma?
Astral Sight is shit. It's exactly like being an Adept and taking Astral Perception, except without advancement opportunities. Knacks are pretty sketchy too... it's only 5 points cheaper than Mystic Adept.
So, I have a player who wants to be a Druid. Being intuition-based seems to be awesomesauce -- not only is it a great stat, but Orks have no disadvantage.
Spirit-wise, it seems a little worse than Shamanism -- the plant's "magic guard" could be really useful, but not as useful as the Spirit of Man's spells.
Still, we can do much better. If I were designing my dream tradition, I'd be a possession tradition with
Man,Task, Guidance,Beast, Air
That way I'd have spellcasting, counterspelling, concealment, natural weapons and energy attacks, divination, animal control, and technical skills.
Still need some time to hash out the flavor text.
Spirit-wise, it seems a little worse than Shamanism -- the plant's "magic guard" could be really useful, but not as useful as the Spirit of Man's spells.
Still, we can do much better. If I were designing my dream tradition, I'd be a possession tradition with
Man,Task, Guidance,Beast, Air
That way I'd have spellcasting, counterspelling, concealment, natural weapons and energy attacks, divination, animal control, and technical skills.
Still need some time to hash out the flavor text.
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Username17
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Well for starters there's the fact that you wouldn't be better with more casting skill unless you can already do those things. Hyper specialization is not rewarded very much in an open-ended modern day system. Being the hardest core combatant is fine and all, but if that's all you can do it isn't much.Boolean wrote:Is there a way to encourage people to pick up basic levels of perception, infiltration, etiquette, etc.? It seems like, with all skill rated equally, a magician would *always* be better off with another die of a casting skill.
The other part is the starting skill caps. People generally take a single 6 or two fives (my system favors people taking two fives, the core book favors people taking a 6). And that leaves a lot of points left over for other skills. And so people do in fact have some diversity of skills.
I personally don't. But I have a system that makes contacts more affordable.Would it be alright to give some free contacts by starting charisma?
Yep, pretty much. That's why I don't use them at all.Astral Sight is shit. It's exactly like being an Adept and taking Astral Perception, except without advancement opportunities. Knacks are pretty sketchy too... it's only 5 points cheaper than Mystic Adept.
There is a great deal of impressive synergy you can manage with any of the drain stats. Intuition traditions are obviously a great deal for Orks though.So, I have a player who wants to be a Druid. Being intuition-based seems to be awesomesauce -- not only is it a great stat, but Orks have no disadvantage.
The Spirit of Man's spells come from your list of spells. How useful they are is directly dependent upon what spells you personally know If you don't know spells that are especially important to transfer to another caster (Detection Spells and Combat Spells for example usually don't fit into that category, lots of others qualify on a case by case basis), then the Spirit of Man is kind of a hobo. The Plant Spirit is however always useful. He can hush loud noises and provide spell defense. That's always useful.Spirit-wise, it seems a little worse than Shamanism -- the plant's "magic guard" could be really useful, but not as useful as the Spirit of Man's spells.
The Druidic Tradition comes through for a number of characters. Occult Investigators, for example. You jack up your intuition, you get a bunch of Assensing and Perception, you grab a grip of Detection spells and you rock out on the spying. And do you miss the Spirit of Man? Not really.
About the only real "mistakes" you can make are having Air and Fire together (because they are pretty redundant), or putting Air or Earth on a Possession tradition (because their primary selling points involve their min/max materialized attributes which possession traditions don't get). Any other spirit assignment can be justified by character and play style.
Why would you put Air spirits into a Possession tradition? Their number one selling point is that they have the best combat stats. And as a possession tradition you don't get to use their stats.Still, we can do much better. If I were designing my dream tradition, I'd be a possession tradition with
Man,Task, Guidance,Beast, Air
-Username17
also, most of the printed possession traditions have air an earth.FrankTrollman wrote:
1. Possession and Inhabitation spirits are affected by gravity.
2. The fact that you can air walk doesn't mean that a set of wings isn't useful.
-Username17
ETA: I notice that essentially all of your house rules make things cost less, rather than more BP. Is that why you suggested starting wih 350?
My biggest concern with running Shadowrun, honestly is the sheer amount of work designing adventures looks to be.
I mean, a basic run like "break into this building and steal something" requires me to do the building's layout and inhabitants/security, plus their computer setup and security, plus what it looks like on the astral, and astral security.
Plus whatever reinforcements they can call in if the runners attract attention.
Any thoughts on managing all that stuff?
I mean, a basic run like "break into this building and steal something" requires me to do the building's layout and inhabitants/security, plus their computer setup and security, plus what it looks like on the astral, and astral security.
Plus whatever reinforcements they can call in if the runners attract attention.
Any thoughts on managing all that stuff?
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CatharzGodfoot
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Username17
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No. I just charge the normal amounts for most of it. Spells and Group Joinings cost 3 Magic costs 10 points flat, but the actual prices for initiations are unchanged.Boolean wrote:I'm assuming you use Karma/2 for the BP cost of magic junk that costs Karma?
So your seventh point of Magic costs 10 for the Magic and 13 for the Grade, rather than 21 and 13. Total cost reduction is 34 -> 23, about in line with the rest of the BP conversions.
Pretty much, yeah. You can either make things cheaper or make things more expensive when costs are out of line. I chose to make things cheaper because the math gets easier that way.ETA: I notice that essentially all of your house rules make things cost less, rather than more BP. Is that why you suggested starting wih 350?
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Username17
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A number of Adept Powers aren't good. In general I don't really care much because people can jolly well cherry pick powers that are awesome. The one that bothers me is the fact that they overcharge people for buying up attributes to high levels or combat skills. Combat skills are actually kind of unimpressive.
Improved Ability should cost .25/level.
Improved Physical Attribute should cost .5/level.
Both those costs should be immutable.
-Username17
Improved Ability should cost .25/level.
Improved Physical Attribute should cost .5/level.
Both those costs should be immutable.
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Username17
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Let's say I summon a spirit and let it possess me.
Are its stats limited by my augmented maximums? or can they exceed them?
Does it still have 2 initiative passes?
Now, suppose I have Channeling
I can use my own skills while possessd by the spirit. Using the spirit's powers still costs a service. What about its skills? Can I use them? Do they cost services? Or can I run around channeling a guardian all day, thus making up for not buying any combat skills myself?
Are its stats limited by my augmented maximums? or can they exceed them?
Does it still have 2 initiative passes?
Now, suppose I have Channeling
I can use my own skills while possessd by the spirit. Using the spirit's powers still costs a service. What about its skills? Can I use them? Do they cost services? Or can I run around channeling a guardian all day, thus making up for not buying any combat skills myself?
Christian Theurgy makes me angry. It was one of the traditions I thought was lacking the minute I read the core book, so I was very excited to see it in the Street Magic table of contents. But why does it suck so much?
Look, people, I get that you need to tread lightly for fear of giving offense or limiting options, but that's no excuse for churning out a tradition that's plain incoherent.
It's a "quasi-hermetic tradition" -- that's not based on logic?
For that matter, it's a Charisma tradition -- where magicians are *discouraged* from talking to spirits?
First they say that magic is considered just part of god's creation, not specifically divine. Spirits are "elemental manifestations." A few paragraphs later, they're *summoning angels*.
What the hell, people, what the hell?
Here's how this is going to go down:
Gnostic Theurgy
Concept: By studying the qabbala, the apocrypha, and gnostic texts, a prophet learns the elaborate system of names and incantations which allows him to command heavenly spirits. Sorcery is conceived of as miracles or borrowing power from other spiritual beings.
Drain: Willpower+Logic; Theurgy is a materialization tradition.
Combat: Water
Detection: Beast
Health: Guidance
Illusion: Fire
Manipulation: Man
Gnositc Theurgists do *not* get along with most church hierarchies, so they attend fringe churchs or just pray in private. They study from other theurgists or directly from the source texts, which are available, with interpretations and commentary, on the Matrix. They are extremely politically active and likely to take up shadowrunning, as they view the current era as a particularly fierce period in an ongoing war between the powers of heaven and hell. Not that they're above dealing with demons if the need arises.
Fire spirits tend to take the form of demons, guidance spirits of angels, and spirits of man appear as souls of the dead. Beast and Water spirits may imitate the creatures of any of god's miracles -- a water spirit might appear as a swarm of frogs or the Leviathan, while a beast spirit looked like a snake or a bear.
Theurgists use crosses, rosaries, incense, holy water, and illuminated manuscripts, and staves as foci, feitshes, ritual components, and telesma. Their magical lodges are generally built around an altar, either at church or in thier basement. Rituals involve much purifying with water and incense following by lengthy invocations and in some cases burnt sacrifices (only to dark powers) Lengthy invocations of angelic names are frequent centering techniques and geasa. Some Theurgists manifest a halo which has the same effect as a Shamanic Mask.
Common Mentors for theurgists include Adversary (Satan) Seductress (Lilith) Fire Bringer (Lucifer) Dragonslayer (Michael) Phoenix (Elijah) Dark King (Uriel) and Snake (the serpent)
Look, people, I get that you need to tread lightly for fear of giving offense or limiting options, but that's no excuse for churning out a tradition that's plain incoherent.
It's a "quasi-hermetic tradition" -- that's not based on logic?
For that matter, it's a Charisma tradition -- where magicians are *discouraged* from talking to spirits?
First they say that magic is considered just part of god's creation, not specifically divine. Spirits are "elemental manifestations." A few paragraphs later, they're *summoning angels*.
What the hell, people, what the hell?
Here's how this is going to go down:
Gnostic Theurgy
Concept: By studying the qabbala, the apocrypha, and gnostic texts, a prophet learns the elaborate system of names and incantations which allows him to command heavenly spirits. Sorcery is conceived of as miracles or borrowing power from other spiritual beings.
Drain: Willpower+Logic; Theurgy is a materialization tradition.
Combat: Water
Detection: Beast
Health: Guidance
Illusion: Fire
Manipulation: Man
Gnositc Theurgists do *not* get along with most church hierarchies, so they attend fringe churchs or just pray in private. They study from other theurgists or directly from the source texts, which are available, with interpretations and commentary, on the Matrix. They are extremely politically active and likely to take up shadowrunning, as they view the current era as a particularly fierce period in an ongoing war between the powers of heaven and hell. Not that they're above dealing with demons if the need arises.
Fire spirits tend to take the form of demons, guidance spirits of angels, and spirits of man appear as souls of the dead. Beast and Water spirits may imitate the creatures of any of god's miracles -- a water spirit might appear as a swarm of frogs or the Leviathan, while a beast spirit looked like a snake or a bear.
Theurgists use crosses, rosaries, incense, holy water, and illuminated manuscripts, and staves as foci, feitshes, ritual components, and telesma. Their magical lodges are generally built around an altar, either at church or in thier basement. Rituals involve much purifying with water and incense following by lengthy invocations and in some cases burnt sacrifices (only to dark powers) Lengthy invocations of angelic names are frequent centering techniques and geasa. Some Theurgists manifest a halo which has the same effect as a Shamanic Mask.
Common Mentors for theurgists include Adversary (Satan) Seductress (Lilith) Fire Bringer (Lucifer) Dragonslayer (Michael) Phoenix (Elijah) Dark King (Uriel) and Snake (the serpent)
Last edited by Orion on Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Tradition: Mentalism
Concept: Mentalists believe that their powers are manifestations of the human mind. By cultivating their awareness of their surroundings, they become able to reach out into the "aether" to reveal and manipulate the otherwise inaccessible. Mentalists consider spirits to be detached pieces of id, racial memory, or other sots of abnormal consciousness.
Drain: Willpower+Intuition
Mentalism is a possession Tradition. All mentalists are Path aspected.
Detection: Guidance
Manipulation: Man
Mentalists rarely have mentor spirits; they hold that there is nothing the spirits know that was not already contained in the metahuman mind. Their rituals are generally fairly unexciting: just a group of mentalists joining hands in a circle, often around a crystal ball. Mentalists consider themselves scientists and as such, love modern technology. They have extensive online libraries of mentalist lore, and like to use technological constructs and vehicles as possession vesels. Mentalist spell formulae are generally english text, but they are not instructions; rather they are a series of metaphors and mental images meant to put the mentalist in the correct state of mind to discover the spell for himself.
Mentalist lodges contain large numbers of books and journals, as well as collections of crystals and victorian-era experimental apparati. They like to use crystals as detection fetishes & foci, but the use of items to aid in manipulation is frowned on as unscientific. Mentalists typically learn Quickening as part of their apprenticeship -- it's just an extension of the mentalist Summoning technique, which is budding off part of one's own consciousness into a self-sustaining entity. It's rare to encounter a mentalist without half a dozen Quickened Detections.
Concept: Mentalists believe that their powers are manifestations of the human mind. By cultivating their awareness of their surroundings, they become able to reach out into the "aether" to reveal and manipulate the otherwise inaccessible. Mentalists consider spirits to be detached pieces of id, racial memory, or other sots of abnormal consciousness.
Drain: Willpower+Intuition
Mentalism is a possession Tradition. All mentalists are Path aspected.
Detection: Guidance
Manipulation: Man
Mentalists rarely have mentor spirits; they hold that there is nothing the spirits know that was not already contained in the metahuman mind. Their rituals are generally fairly unexciting: just a group of mentalists joining hands in a circle, often around a crystal ball. Mentalists consider themselves scientists and as such, love modern technology. They have extensive online libraries of mentalist lore, and like to use technological constructs and vehicles as possession vesels. Mentalist spell formulae are generally english text, but they are not instructions; rather they are a series of metaphors and mental images meant to put the mentalist in the correct state of mind to discover the spell for himself.
Mentalist lodges contain large numbers of books and journals, as well as collections of crystals and victorian-era experimental apparati. They like to use crystals as detection fetishes & foci, but the use of items to aid in manipulation is frowned on as unscientific. Mentalists typically learn Quickening as part of their apprenticeship -- it's just an extension of the mentalist Summoning technique, which is budding off part of one's own consciousness into a self-sustaining entity. It's rare to encounter a mentalist without half a dozen Quickened Detections.
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CatharzGodfoot
- King
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- Location: North Carolina
I have to wonder about the 'Fire spirits = demons', considering that practically ever Old Testament angel is associated with fire in one fashion or another.
Why not have a 'Saint' tradition, which assumes that a practitioner is capable of communicating with God, calling upon angels, and (of course) creating miracles? Assuming necromancy isn't a sin, you could have them calling up spirits of the dead as well as angels (like the Gnostic).
To cast spells, they pray to the appropriate saint (or possibly God/Jesus/Mary). Bam, a miracle!
The Church (and other churches) would be pretty keen on controlling these guys considering the damage they could do.
Practitioners of all other traditions are in league with The Devil whether they know it or not. And what do we do with witches?
To be honest I don't know what kind of a tradition it would be. You probably want them to be charismatic, so it might be best to keep it a Charisma tradition. I mean, an uncharismatic saint? Yeah right.
Why not have a 'Saint' tradition, which assumes that a practitioner is capable of communicating with God, calling upon angels, and (of course) creating miracles? Assuming necromancy isn't a sin, you could have them calling up spirits of the dead as well as angels (like the Gnostic).
To cast spells, they pray to the appropriate saint (or possibly God/Jesus/Mary). Bam, a miracle!
The Church (and other churches) would be pretty keen on controlling these guys considering the damage they could do.
Practitioners of all other traditions are in league with The Devil whether they know it or not. And what do we do with witches?
To be honest I don't know what kind of a tradition it would be. You probably want them to be charismatic, so it might be best to keep it a Charisma tradition. I mean, an uncharismatic saint? Yeah right.
THe Sain is a good idea, and could probably share spirit affinities with the Gnostic, but I wanted to play an academic izard who bought into the christian mythos.
As for demons, I wondered if someone was going to call me out on that inaccuracy. I am well aware that fire is the punishment for demons, not their nature. And that angels are often on fire or wielding fire. Still, angels (especially Lucifer, who is of course also sort of a demon) are frequently referred to or conceived of as "air" spirits. -- Of ocurse, in Shadowrun, air and fire are similar anyway. I was going to have angels be air and demons fire, but as Frank suggested using both in one tradition is rather subpar.
As for why I made demons fire rather than air? I think it's justifiable -- a spirit summoned form a place fo fire would logically have access to firey powers. But my real motivation was that air spirits, and particularly illusion-boosting air spirits, are in a lot of traditions already, while fire spirits, especially noncombat fire spirits, are significantly rarer. Also, fire is scarier.
As for demons, I wondered if someone was going to call me out on that inaccuracy. I am well aware that fire is the punishment for demons, not their nature. And that angels are often on fire or wielding fire. Still, angels (especially Lucifer, who is of course also sort of a demon) are frequently referred to or conceived of as "air" spirits. -- Of ocurse, in Shadowrun, air and fire are similar anyway. I was going to have angels be air and demons fire, but as Frank suggested using both in one tradition is rather subpar.
As for why I made demons fire rather than air? I think it's justifiable -- a spirit summoned form a place fo fire would logically have access to firey powers. But my real motivation was that air spirits, and particularly illusion-boosting air spirits, are in a lot of traditions already, while fire spirits, especially noncombat fire spirits, are significantly rarer. Also, fire is scarier.
Question about Possession spirits: Why provide bodies for them at all? For stealth runs, obviously, but for combat, possessing enemies seems like the clear way to go. It's an insta-gib against alnost any human, and *then an ally*.
Speaking of possession hijinks, The players in my shadowrun game have a rabbi as a contact, so while none of them is a caster they have friendly spirits on the table. I wanted to run an adventure where they'd need magical support, so someone would have to submit to possession for much of the session. Looks like good creepy fun. However, I'm trying to figure out how to justify this, because it seems like they could just stick the spirit in their wallet or something and have it do its magic thing.
On a related note, a magician retains consciousness when possessed by a spirit he sumoned. What about an unawakened character with transferred services? ETA: Apparently the answer is yes
Speaking of possession hijinks, The players in my shadowrun game have a rabbi as a contact, so while none of them is a caster they have friendly spirits on the table. I wanted to run an adventure where they'd need magical support, so someone would have to submit to possession for much of the session. Looks like good creepy fun. However, I'm trying to figure out how to justify this, because it seems like they could just stick the spirit in their wallet or something and have it do its magic thing.
On a related note, a magician retains consciousness when possessed by a spirit he sumoned. What about an unawakened character with transferred services? ETA: Apparently the answer is yes
Last edited by Orion on Sun May 04, 2008 7:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Username17
- Serious Badass
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Possessing a specific target is a service itself, and it doesn't always work on the unwilling. While possessing an enemy soldier in the middle of battle is awesomely powerful, it's time consuming, service munching, and unreliable.
Personally I find that you are usually better off just preparing an armed drone as a vessel and coming to the battle with your drone already possessed. Then you can instagib people with automatic weaponry from the start.
-Username17
Personally I find that you are usually better off just preparing an armed drone as a vessel and coming to the battle with your drone already possessed. Then you can instagib people with automatic weaponry from the start.
-Username17
So, I'm running another Shadowrun game, starting tomorrow.
one player asked me to make a character for him, specifying only that it be as "Elf Adept with a Katana"
Here's what I got so far:
Body 4 Agility 6 (8) Reaction 5 (6) Strength 4
Charisma 3 Intuition 3 Logic 3 Willpower 3
Edge 1 Magic 6 (5) Essence 5
Powers:
Astral Perception, Traceless Walk, Voice Control, Enthralling Performance, Improved Gymnastics 3, Improved Blades 3, Improved Agility 2
Ware: Synaptic Booster 1, Alpha Skillwires 3
Skills:
Blades (Swords) 6 (9)
Athletics 4
Gymnastics (Tumbling) 4
Perception 4
Assensing 1
Astral Combat 4
Possessions: Force 2 Katana Focus, Chameleon Suit (Thermal Damping 3), Rating 6 Autopick, Rating 6 Card Copier, Rating 4 Sequencer, Rating 4 Paskey, actioneer business clothes, combat knife, trodes, Rating 4 Fake SIN w/ Katana license, Contact lenses w/ everything
I have a few points left, once I get my 35 points of negative qualities. Need some contacts, activesofts, and other fun stuff. Comments?
one player asked me to make a character for him, specifying only that it be as "Elf Adept with a Katana"
Here's what I got so far:
Body 4 Agility 6 (8) Reaction 5 (6) Strength 4
Charisma 3 Intuition 3 Logic 3 Willpower 3
Edge 1 Magic 6 (5) Essence 5
Powers:
Astral Perception, Traceless Walk, Voice Control, Enthralling Performance, Improved Gymnastics 3, Improved Blades 3, Improved Agility 2
Ware: Synaptic Booster 1, Alpha Skillwires 3
Skills:
Blades (Swords) 6 (9)
Athletics 4
Gymnastics (Tumbling) 4
Perception 4
Assensing 1
Astral Combat 4
Possessions: Force 2 Katana Focus, Chameleon Suit (Thermal Damping 3), Rating 6 Autopick, Rating 6 Card Copier, Rating 4 Sequencer, Rating 4 Paskey, actioneer business clothes, combat knife, trodes, Rating 4 Fake SIN w/ Katana license, Contact lenses w/ everything
I have a few points left, once I get my 35 points of negative qualities. Need some contacts, activesofts, and other fun stuff. Comments?
Edit: Damn double posts.
Rest of the team:
Troll Adept (unarmed, heavy weapons) Improved Reflexes 3, Agility Boost, Body Boost, Nimble Fingers, something
Technomancer
Magician/Hacker (Tradition: Paranoid Schizophrenic)
Ork Gunslinger/Face
(Joining later: Elf Possession Conjurer [Bear-sarker], and possibly a Human Rigger]
Rest of the team:
Troll Adept (unarmed, heavy weapons) Improved Reflexes 3, Agility Boost, Body Boost, Nimble Fingers, something
Technomancer
Magician/Hacker (Tradition: Paranoid Schizophrenic)
Ork Gunslinger/Face
(Joining later: Elf Possession Conjurer [Bear-sarker], and possibly a Human Rigger]
Last edited by Orion on Tue Aug 05, 2008 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.