OSSR: ACKS Heroic Fantasy Handbook

[Iduno]

Fucking shit. We found someone dumber than Kaelik, and I think Kaelik is a failed parody of Shadzar who makes up positions to believe in to start arguments.

[Whatever]

Y'know, I never see leftists bring up Antifa completely unprovoked. Ever. Even people who are totally "members" of that loosely affiliated group of edgy internet people. I never realized that until just now, but why is that?

That's because Antifa practices direct action. It's not a political party in any capacity. The only "arguments" they're out here making are ones like doxing, no-platforming, mutual aid, punching nazis in the face, and saving Dr Cornel West's life.

[Mord]

There was a good post explaining to the peanut gallery about the origins of the term and how it is derived from the Roman Empire. Reposted in spoiler block form:

Good to see you posting here in your own self-defense. Until today I was unaware there was any controversy over Adventurer, Conqueror, Kings. Looks like a version of D&D too me.

As far as I know, the ancient Germans were not about white supremacy. In fact they were simply about not allowing barbarian invaders and slavers to invade Germany and take their women and children and goods away. Arminius was captured as a child in a Roman raid into Germany by the Romans when they crossed the Rhine at Xanten, and he was taken captive to Rome as a young boy. He grew up and became a classically trained cavalry commander, and became Varus' chief scout. When Varus invaded Germany again in 9 a.d. Arminius united the German clan leaders, and they deliberately lured the Roman legions deep into Germany, then ambushed them at Tuetoberger Wald. All of the Roman Eagles fell, Two were captured, and one was deliberately concealed in a bog.

It would be two decades before Roman Legions crossed the Rhine again, and they retaliated, and continued pillaging until about 275 ad
Some recommended additional reading for you;
Teutoberg Forest 9 AD
https://ospreypublishing.com/teutoburg-forest-ad-9-pb

Around 355 ad, in an attempt to escape from the invading Huns that came from the East, the Germans crossed into Roman territory. The Romans attempted to drive them back but in AD 378 the Ostrogoths and Visigoths were able to defeat them at Adrianople in the East. The Romans were now forced to do a deal with the Goths who were given permission to live within the borders of the Roman Empire under their own rulers. In return, the Goths agreed to serve under Roman officers in order to prevent further invasions. The Germans became angry though when the Romans passed a law in AD 370 prohibiting marriage between Romans and themselves. The Germans also felt they were not being treated as equals in the army.

Alaric, a Visigoths leader, took part in several campaigns under the Romans. However, when he did not receive the expected promotion in the Roman Army, he led his people against the empire. Alaric now demanded that the Visigoths should have their own independent state. In AD 410 Alaric's army was strong enough to enter Rome. Roman slaves joined with the Visigoths in sacking the city. With the slaves joining his army, Alaric now had 40,000 men at his disposal. After roaming around the Roman Empire, the Visigoths eventually decided to settle in Aquitania.

The Vandals, under the leadership of Gaiseric, also created serious problems for the Romans. With the support of the Alans, the Vandals entered Africa from Hispania in AD 429. Although, like most invading armies, the Vandals did not do damage to property in Africa, they had mainly come to settle and not to destroy. Roman writers, who were extremely hostile to their Arian form of Christianity, were mainly responsible for the Vandals' undeserved reputation for destroying anything to do with civilization.

The Vandals were good seamen and they were now in a position to control the Mediterranean. After taking Sardinia and Corsica, Gaiseric invaded Italy in AD 455 and spent fourteen days ransacking Rome.

The Romans tried to obtain revenge, but the two vast fleets they sent to Carthage were defeated by the superior Vandal navy. Although there were only about 80,000 Vandals, of which only about 20,000 were fighting men, they ruled the six million people in Roman Africa for the next hundred years.

Arianism didn't come from, or originate in Germany, It came from Rome. Arianism, in Christianity, the Christological (concerning the doctrine of Christ) position that Jesus, as the Son of God, was created by God. It was proposed early in the 4th century by the Alexandrian presbyter Arius and was popular throughout much of the Eastern and Western Roman empires, even after it was denounced as a heresy by the Council of Nicaea in 325 ad. It remained the dominant theological stance in Germany though, until the formation of the Holy Roman Empire shortly after 800 ad. The Holy Roman Empire was Catholic, and lost favor in Germany in the late 1400's due to the corruption within the church that favored the wealthy over the masses. Martin Luther was excommunicated in 1519 and formed the Protestant Church.

The Thirty Years' War was a war fought primarily in Central Europe between 1618 and 1648. One of the most destructive conflicts in human history, it resulted in eight million fatalities not only from military engagements but also from violence, famine, and plague. Casualties were overwhelmingly and disproportionately inhabitants of the Holy Roman Empire, most of the rest being battle deaths from various foreign armies. The deadly clashes ravaged Europe; 20 percent of the total population of Germany died during the conflict and there were losses up to 50 percent in a corridor between Pomerania and the Black Forest.

Initially a war between various Protestant and Catholic states in the fragmented Holy Roman Empire, it gradually developed into a more general conflict involving most of the European great powers. These states employed relatively large mercenary armies, and the war became less about religion and more of a continuation of the France–Habsburg rivalry for European political pre-eminence.

The Dutch Republic enjoyed contrasting fortune; it obtained independence from the Holy Roman Empire and also from Spain (which had directly controlled the Dutch lands despite it not being part of the Holy Roman Empire) thus concluding its 80-year revolt against Spain. It subsequently enjoyed a time of great prosperity and development, known as the Dutch Golden Age, during which it became one of the world's foremost economic, colonial, and naval powers. The Thirty Years' War ended with the Treaty of Osnabrück and the Treaties of Münster, part of the wider Peace of Westphalia. The war altered the previous political order of European powers. The rise of Bourbon France, the curtailing of Habsburg ambition, and the ascendancy of Sweden as a great power created a new balance of power on the continent, with France emerging from the war strengthened and increasingly dominant in the latter part of the 17th century.

This balance of power remained relatively unchanged within Germany until after World War I. Then the old order of Protestant and Catholic Aristocrats were replaced by the young socialists of the National Socialist party (The Nazis). It was they that reintroduced Arianism along with white superiority into national German religion and politics, and made these key elements in the reformation and rebirth of Germany after the defeat in WWI, and the economic collapse shortly thereafter in the late 1920's.

Interestingly, the majority of Germans abandoned Arianism and white superiority after the defeat of Germany in 1945, just about as quickly as they had adopted it between 1933-1936, in favor of their previous religions of Protestantism and Catholicism. However it was adopted by Caucasians of many other nationalities around the world, after WWII. England, France, Germany, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Hungary, Romania, and the United States all have right wing Arian white supremacist political factions well established in each country.

To say that Germany is an Arian white supremacist state is simply ridiculous, although there is a strong right wing white-supremacist political party that is strongly anti-immigration and xenophobic, and this group composes at present approximately 20% of the population of Germany.

Why is everyone all getting worked up about ACKS anyway?

Funny you should bring up that post, because it is ignorant to the point that I almost registered an account over there to make this observation: GameDaddy spewed out several hundred mostly irrelevant words about German history without noticing the difference between Arian and Aryan. He is an illiterate and nothing he says should be taken at face value.

I don't know why you think that anything in GameDaddy's old man ramble has any relevance to the historical context of the term "fascism."

[deaddmwalking]

I don't know why you think that anything in GameDaddy's old man ramble has any relevance to the historical context of the term "fascism."

It was relevant to the term arianism, but hey, if he's wrong, I'm sorry. The point I thought he was making was that the Romans developed the philosophy that led to the Nazis, so saying 'my game is based on the Roman Empire' isn't the defense he thought it was.

What I do know is that the Hitler considered the Nazis the 3rd Reich; the first being the Holy Roman Empire, which itself worked pretty hard to associate itself with a connection to Rome. So saying the Nazis derived a lot of their symbolism directly from an emulation of Imperial Rome wouldn't be wrong.

[Username17]

I don't know why you think that anything in GameDaddy's old man ramble has any relevance to the historical context of the term "fascism."

It was relevant to the term arianism, but hey, if he's wrong, I'm sorry. The point I thought he was making was that the Romans developed the philosophy that led to the Nazis, so saying 'my game is based on the Roman Empire' isn't the defense he thought it was.

What I do know is that the Hitler considered the Nazis the 3rd Reich; the first being the Holy Roman Empire, which itself worked pretty hard to associate itself with a connection to Rome. So saying the Nazis derived a lot of their symbolism directly from an emulation of Imperial Rome wouldn't be wrong.

There are a lot of tells in GameDaddy's rant that he doesn't know what he's talking about. The big one obviously would be when he described the Nazis as 'socialists' which is just like... wow. But the more fundamental issue is that he's conflating Arianism (the belief of a non-trinitarian god) and Aryanism (the belief in the importance of the expansion of the Aryan horse tribe). Are they being deliberately conflated? I don't know! There's no evidence that GameDaddy is sufficiently aware that words that sound similar can mean different things to say one way or the other.

Hitler was a Catholic. He had the pope come to officiate for his birthday and the only things he ever did that was contrary to Catholic teaching were failing to marry his mistress and taking his own life. There is no reason at all to believe that he was a Mormon or in any other way rejected Catholic teachings on the tripartite nature of God. He was however an Aryanist, in that he had the belief that Germanic tribes were descended from the same horse nomads that conquered India and also swept across Europe and became the Celts.

Basically GameDaddy's tirade is a weird mixture of non-sequiturs and crazy word mixups. I genuinely don't even know if it's supposed to be comedy, but it certainly isn't history.

-Username17

[The Adventurer's Almanac]

He was however an Aryanist, in that he had the belief that Germanic tribes were descended from the same horse nomads that conquered India and also swept across Europe and became the Celts.

That whole thing always struck me as deeply weird. Where the fuck did that idea come from and why would white supremacists believe in it?

[Username17]

He was however an Aryanist, in that he had the belief that Germanic tribes were descended from the same horse nomads that conquered India and also swept across Europe and became the Celts.

That whole thing always struck me as deeply weird. Where the fuck did that idea come from and why would white supremacists believe in it?

19th century racism is really weird. The fact that there's human evolution has caused people to freak out and also people are starting to do linguistic comparisons and try to categorize human features to try to figure out who is related to who. Remember, these people didn't have 23&Me or whatever, they were trying to work it all out from superficial connections Qanon style.

So there's a factual connection between many of the languages of Europe and many of the languages of South Asia. There is what we now call the Indo-European Language Group. So if you put Hindi side by side with Greek, you find fundamental connections that you don't find when you compare unrelated languages like Swahili or Cantonese.

Some people went all TimeCube or Ancient Astronaut on this fact, but the main piece of muck in he wheels for racist theories of the period is that Sanskrit is obviously much older than German or even Latin. Hence if you posit the existence of an ancient master race proto-culture, it has to have been in Northern India before it was in Western Europe.

So various would-be ubermenschen put together various pseudo-histories to try to explain the observable reality that there is a cultural common ancestry between Northern India and Western Europe and a bunch of places in between. And that had to take into account the obviously much older groups in South Asia. Hence the idea of Aryan Western Expansion, which isn't even exactly wrong.

Aryanism was simply exactly as much concession to reality as race theorists of the late 19th and early 20th century felt they had to make based on linguistic and archaeological data of the time while still getting to the white supremacy conclusion that they always had baked in. And racists of today still use it because they aren't the brightest people and don't feel like they have to make any concessions to reality or new information, but still like to reference old racist tirades from the early 20th century.

-Username17

[SeekritLurker]

You know what? I was going to respond in this thread, but I'm just going to go watch Green Room again.

Goddamn Nazi punks ruin everything if you don't forcefully show them the door.

[fbmf]

and has absolutely nothing to do with Frank chimping out

Emphasis mine.

[The Great Fence Builder Speaks]
Even by the standards of TGDMB this is too far. Get off my lawn, Sacrificial Lamb.
[/The Great Fence Builder Speaks]

[Whipstitch]

Yeah, when used by real scientists "alpha" isn't a set type with ordained characteristics, it's a designation that gets applied to whichever animal happens to establish themselves at the top of a hierarchy. Researchers designated chimps as alphas whether they get their way through their own physical prowess or their ability to maintain a coalition of supporters. So authoritarian bro science advocates routinely expose their own unscientific bias when they refuse to ever admit that powerful people they happen to dislike are the closest things we have to alphas in human society. They are uncomfortable with admitting such things because in an authoritarian worldview dominance is synonymous with virtue and obviously people they don't like can't be virtuous.

Personally, I just prefer to note that sometimes people end up with the nuclear football despite being a real jackass. It's really galling, but at least I don't have to bend my moral framework into knots every election cycle.

[Libertad]

Oh, and let's also not forget that the (alleged) shooter was only nominally what you would call "white". He was actually Latino and Jewish. Oh, and before you start screaming at me for saying this, and using neo-Marxist terms like: "Nazi, anti-Semite, racist, terrorist, white supremacist", and other such bullshit....I'll mention that I'm ethnically Latino and Jewish myself. So spare me your bullshit.

What do you mean by "Nazi"? I am ethnically Jewish, and have Jewish family members. I went to synagogue as a child, I had a Bar Mitzvah, and I have a Hebrew name. I have absolutely no idea whatsoever what you mean, when you use terms like "fascist" and "Nazi". My Jewish father was a soldier in World War 2, in the "Battle of the Bulge". He recently died, and it hurt....very badly.

Actual ethnically Jewish person* chiming in here to say that I never in my life heard of a Jew claim that 'anti-Semite' or its derivations are a neo-Marxist term; not even ones who are assimilated into mainstream society and not as keyed into the culture and religion. It's not only factually wrong (the term has 19th-century origins in a German bigot's writings), it mirrors far-right talking points claiming that words like "racism" are just made up to smear innocent people.

*As in half my family tree's Jewish, but I don't practice the faith or observe the holidays and traditions.

Neo-Marxism as a right-wing dogwhistle is associated with the Frankfurt School, which only really organized as an institution during the Weimar Republic, about 50 years after Marr's ur-fascist rantings were published.

[SeekritLurker]

I took a look over there. Just a quick look.

And the amount of disingenuous nonsense is... yeah, wow.

I think my favorite was the thing where the one guy poses Conservapedia and Wikipedia a) equal and opposite in their presentation, content and accuracy; and b) that only Progressives like Wikipedia, and Conservatives like Conservapedia; and c) a good way to compare these things is to look up something like Gamergate on those platforms. (Because Conservatives think Gamergate was a ~good thing~, naturally.)

This is not to say that Wikipedia is some perfect paragon of unbiased information, mind - I'm keenly aware of the issues with Wikipedia. But they're in so deep they don't even see the hole over there. Wow.

[tenngu]

So uhhh I guess to get this thread back onto a course I guess....

In the event Blicero from Gaming Hub reads this:

....Since you think that domains and mass combat is the game's killer app, I'd like to extend to you an offer to preview the revised Axioms issue 3, which has the most extensive and detailed domain and economics rules I have published to date. I think you'd give it a thorough assessment.

Is that something you could do Blicero? It seems like domains has come up quite a bit over the past little bit with frank's thread about domain rules. IT couldn't hurt to see how those rules are.

[SeekritLurker]

So uhhh I guess to get this thread back onto a course I guess....

In the event Blicero from Gaming Hub reads this:

....Since you think that domains and mass combat is the game's killer app, I'd like to extend to you an offer to preview the revised Axioms issue 3, which has the most extensive and detailed domain and economics rules I have published to date. I think you'd give it a thorough assessment.

Is that something you could do Blicero? It seems like domains has come up quite a bit over the past little bit with frank's thread about domain rules. IT couldn't hurt to see how those rules are.

I suppose Blicero could do that, but I'd recommend against it - if only because Macris has made the offer and probably thinks that there is some value to be extracted from it. At best, it's a fig-leaf for the company he keeps; at worst, it's actively helping him to market his product and make him some money.

Blah, blah, cancel culture, art and artist, whatever. It's just a fact that there are limited numbers of dollars available to go around in the non-DND rpg space, and the ones that go to him aren't going to someone else. Macris' professional choices and actions show him to be a person I'd be okay with never getting much money ever again (though $deity knows that the conservative grift machine will probably continue to send money to him forever.)

Let him starve with Milo.

[Thaluikhain]

What I do know is that the Hitler considered the Nazis the 3rd Reich; the first being the Holy Roman Empire, which itself worked pretty hard to associate itself with a connection to Rome. So saying the Nazis derived a lot of their symbolism directly from an emulation of Imperial Rome wouldn't be wrong.

Mussolini was even more direct about it. To the extent that he destroyed real ancient Roman archeological sites because they were in the way of the fake Ancient Roman Empire thingy he was setting up. While there's a lot worse that he's done, that one is even against his stated goals.

One might also compare that to modern attitudes. Make the Reich Great Again needs another word beginning with a vowel, but it works for Italy.

He was however an Aryanist, in that he had the belief that Germanic tribes were descended from the same horse nomads that conquered India and also swept across Europe and became the Celts.

That whole thing always struck me as deeply weird. Where the fuck did that idea come from and why would white supremacists believe in it?

They also believed that their ancestors were from Atlantis and had links to the Himalayas, inspiring any number of works of fiction back in the long lost days when Nazis were the go-to bad guys. And to think, I used to complain that that was lazy and not relevant anymore.

[Username17]

I took a look over there. Just a quick look.

And the amount of disingenuous nonsense is... yeah, wow.

Yes. Remember that they could have just stayed laser focused on the idea that it's almost impossible to prove a direct connection between promoters of extremist thought like Milo and individual stochastic terrorist acts that are motivated by extremist thought that the mean things I said were overreach and that I was a scaremongering hatemonger. That would have totally kept me on the back foot, because while connecting the dots between purveyors of hate speech like Milo and actual mass murders like the Gilroy Garlic Festival Attack is easy, proving that those dots are connected is hard. Especially if you have disciplined denial in depth on the other side willing to cross their fingers behind their backs and performatively disavow each terrorist attack in turn. They could have quite plausibly got me stammering while producing mountains of weak evidence while they pretended to be shocked and offended that anyone would compare them to "those criminals" or even cherry pick some whataboutisms by claiming that some specific mass murderers were leftists - there's a mass shooting every 22 hours in the US this year, so I'm sure they could find a few that don't fit the profile of misogynistic racist white man.

But yeah, they just actually can't even finish their own defense statements without sputtering off into unhinged racist tirades, insane conspiracy theories, or unprompted admissions of participation in financial impropriety. It's not just that they are bad people, it's that they are so far into the bubble of their cesspool that they can't remember which parts they are supposed to say quiet and which parts they are supposed to say loud when trying to talk to normies.

-Username17

[MGuy]

They can't stay focused and disciplined because they are not the grifters themselves. These grifters actually practice at what they do and they only teach their audience the basic talking points. There are very few who can regurgitate only enough to 'hide their power level' so you routinely get people like Sac who go into random task talking points unprompted. A lot of these people believe in the talking points and think that they are not monsters because of it. I've said it multiple times but the right has done a lot of groundwork in pushing these ideas to whoever will listen.

[Thaluikhain]

While we are at it, what's it with all the "I can't support Nazism, I'm an X" when X is someone legitimately at threat from Neo-Nazis?

There seems to be a lot of people who'd be genuinely and personally at immediate threat should the neo-Nazis get more active, who are trying their best to help them.

(Not people saying that they can't be in league with Nazis because they are "Mediterranean". Presumably they are hoping people forget that Spain and Italy exist)

[Mistborn]

Macris actually admited fault even it was in the weaseliest and most disingenuous of manors, but it's clear he's just trying to cover his ass. Of course then he ruins it be being all like, I can't be fascist because I'm a Ron Paul guy. Like the fuck is that shit? "Oh please Doctor Trollman don't flame me for attaching my name to racist/fascist propaganda. Also I'm just like that other guy who got in trouble for attaching his name to racist/fascist propaganda." So yeah don't buy his game, don't support his economic ventures in general, and say mean things about him on the internet at every opportunity.

[Libertad]

While we are at it, what's it with all the "I can't support Nazism, I'm an X" when X is someone legitimately at threat from Neo-Nazis?

There seems to be a lot of people who'd be genuinely and personally at immediate threat should the neo-Nazis get more active, who are trying their best to help them.

(Not people saying that they can't be in league with Nazis because they are "Mediterranean". Presumably they are hoping people forget that Spain and Italy exist)

There are a variety of reasons. Some think regresseives will be on the winning side and thus hope joining them will let them be spared. Others realize that there is money to be made in the ‘token minority who tells it like it is’ businesss that right -wingers love to point to to show their supposed diversity. And some like Milo Yiannopoulos or Nicholas Fuentes had only tangential connections to their minority culture and could pass for white to some degree. Some had negative experiences with the political left and thus presume what they heard about the right should be reassessed. And some I suppose want to watch the world burn; or belong to a minority group themselves but hate another group that fascists also hate in hopes of some ‘common goal.’ Like the short-lasted alliance between the Nation ifIslam and the American Nazi Party.

[souran]

While we are at it, what's it with all the "I can't support Nazism, I'm an X" when X is someone legitimately at threat from Neo-Nazis?

There seems to be a lot of people who'd be genuinely and personally at immediate threat should the neo-Nazis get more active, who are trying their best to help them.

(Not people saying that they can't be in league with Nazis because they are "Mediterranean". Presumably they are hoping people forget that Spain and Italy exist)

Libertad has a good list started but I think that there are few things that should be expanded upon. Why do they say crap like that well it could be becuase:

a) They are lying. Its the internet so how are we ever going to check somebodies ethnic background? Lying is really useful because it not only helps them make points now but it muddies the waters in the future because they can use other accounts or have people point to them as why they are not racist.

b) Wealth is basically an ethnic class all its own. Seriously, the wealthy have more in common with each other than they do with their nominal racial groups and high levels of wealth have a lot of the same cultural imprinting effects that being part of a ethnic group does at lower wealth levels. Additionally, wealth also can make people feel immune to the sort of radical actions proposed by the far right while obviously fearing the radical actions proposed by the far left. This has always been the case, one of the early financiers of the Nazi party was Erik Jan Hanussen, a jewish born "psychic". By the time of the rise of the Nazi party he was extremely wealth and gave them a large number of significant donations and loans. He figured this would keep him safe with the new regime. Eventually, he was considered an embarrasment to the party and somebody thought he, if we kill him we won't have to pay back his loans! So they did.

c) Racism is stupid and petty and can't decide what white is. It would not surprise me to find Jewish Nazis in the US because ethnically Jewish people in the US typically look like generic white dudes. One thing that I think is really funny is how American White supremacists are all currently in love with Russia and Putin. Their Fathers didn't consider Slavs to be people much less white people. Seriously, in racist asshole circles slavic people didn't become white till after the end of communism at the earliest. However, while racism has expanded to be more inclusive (that is probably the most ironic part of this whole thing) it always resorts to being exclusionary as it gets its way. As I noted above Slavs were not white till the 90s, Greeks were not white till the 80s, Italians where not white till the 50s, Catholics where not white till the 40s, and the Irish where not white till the 20s. These guys will start turning on these groups in an attempt to narrow down "whiteness" once its convienent. You litterally cannot meet the requirements they will set if they decide its convienet to exclude you. If you dont' think this has happend before, then consider that George Lincon Rockwell (founder of the american nazi party) was killed by one of his own followers. The guy was of greek heritage. So he "looked" white and kept getting admitted to the Nazi party. Then somebody would look funny at his last name and through him out for being "not white". There are a lot of people who will find out that they were "white" when it was time to vote racists into power, but not "white" when it comes time to set up rules for keeping them there.

[SeekritLurker]

While we are at it, what's it with all the "I can't support Nazism, I'm an X" when X is someone legitimately at threat from Neo-Nazis?

There seems to be a lot of people who'd be genuinely and personally at immediate threat should the neo-Nazis get more active, who are trying their best to help them.

(Not people saying that they can't be in league with Nazis because they are "Mediterranean". Presumably they are hoping people forget that Spain and Italy exist)

Libertad has a good list started but I think that there are few things that should be expanded upon. Why do they say crap like that well it could be becuase:

a) They are lying. Its the internet so how are we ever going to check somebodies ethnic background? Lying is really useful because it not only helps them make points now but it muddies the waters in the future because they can use other accounts or have people point to them as why they are not racist.

b) Wealth is basically an ethnic class all its own. Seriously, the wealthy have more in common with each other than they do with their nominal racial groups and high levels of wealth have a lot of the same cultural imprinting effects that being part of a ethnic group does at lower wealth levels. Additionally, wealth also can make people feel immune to the sort of radical actions proposed by the far right while obviously fearing the radical actions proposed by the far left. This has always been the case, one of the early financiers of the Nazi party was Erik Jan Hanussen, a jewish born "psychic". By the time of the rise of the Nazi party he was extremely wealth and gave them a large number of significant donations and loans. He figured this would keep him safe with the new regime. Eventually, he was considered an embarrasment to the party and somebody thought he, if we kill him we won't have to pay back his loans! So they did.

c) Racism is stupid and petty and can't decide what white is. It would not surprise me to find Jewish Nazis in the US because ethnically Jewish people in the US typically look like generic white dudes. One thing that I think is really funny is how American White supremacists are all currently in love with Russia and Putin. Their Fathers didn't consider Slavs to be people much less white people. Seriously, in racist asshole circles slavic people didn't become white till after the end of communism at the earliest. However, while racism has expanded to be more inclusive (that is probably the most ironic part of this whole thing) it always resorts to being exclusionary as it gets its way. As I noted above Slavs were not white till the 90s, Greeks were not white till the 80s, Italians where not white till the 50s, Catholics where not white till the 40s, and the Irish where not white till the 20s. These guys will start turning on these groups in an attempt to narrow down "whiteness" once its convienent. You litterally cannot meet the requirements they will set if they decide its convienet to exclude you. If you dont' think this has happend before, then consider that George Lincon Rockwell (founder of the american nazi party) was killed by one of his own followers. The guy was of greek heritage. So he "looked" white and kept getting admitted to the Nazi party. Then somebody would look funny at his last name and through him out for being "not white". There are a lot of people who will find out that they were "white" when it was time to vote racists into power, but not "white" when it comes time to set up rules for keeping them there.

It is also important to note, from a historical standpoint, that Irish and Italian folks became white by becoming enforcers and promoters of anti-black racism, culturally and by joining enforcement organs (i.e., the police.)

You can see the descendants of the same impulse with some Irish folks whose ancestors arrived in the US in the late 19th century, telling Latinos whose roots in the area go back to the 17th century to 'go home.' It's about reinforcing the notion that the Irish are white, even when that's no longer at question.

When it comes to people who actually are minorities joining into the fascist 'fun,' there are some similar factors at work. Just because Hitler did it 80 years ago does not necessarily make it the way it is now. Yes, they still want an ethnostate, but that ethnostate has already expanded to include the Irish and Italians, there's no reason it cannot expand to include gays or Jewish folks is the view. Because of the racism noted in the libertarian movement (noted above by Lord Mistborn), I'd believe that gay folks could be included in the ethnostate, though I'm pretty sure that anyone who's Jewish is deluding themselves.

Among Latinx, of course, there is a separate track of racism, with 'light skin' and 'I'm Spanish' being a huge part of it, and that particular intersection is where you find the Latinx willing to join up.

The recruitment channels bear watching - libertarians were a prime channel a decade ago, but now it's video games and comics in their -Gate forms that are huge for radicalization. Libertarians were small, private meetings of white dudes who felt aggrieved at the system and were prime targets for finding disaffected youth to recruit, but now the internet has happened and it's lower impact to post shit on YouTube than to actually do face-to-face stuff.

Music venues and punk shows were the way it worked in the 80s and 90s - At least, that was the observation I had knowing way more people with white laces in their Docs than I ought to have. Confession: I spent my formative years associating with a huge variety of skinheads because they were in my local Masonic youth group; I didn't really realize when I was 13 and 14 what I was actually seeing.

Anyhow, that's broad social strokes and I'm not accusing all Irish folks of being racist or anything - I'm saying that's historical and how it did work then.

[Iduno]

Among Latinx, of course, there is a separate track of racism, with 'light skin' and 'I'm Spanish' being a huge part of it, and that particular intersection is where you find the Latinx willing to join up.

That, and very conservative Catholics or people who are Latinx Uncle Ruckus. I've got a bunch of coworkers (another division) who sit around spouting infowars and anti-immigrant stuff all day long, and half of them are darker-skinned immigrants from Mexico.

[jt]

Those are a bunch of thoughtful and correct analyses, and all the factors you folks have described play a part, but I think you're all missing the most banal reason. Fascism is harmful to even group it's supposed to put on top; it's a stupid thing to support no matter who you are. And no race, gender, sexuality, or whatever has a monopoly on people who are stupid and hateful.

[Mistborn]

Now normally I'm not one to do this... nah I'm totally the type to engage in a bit of unsportsmanlike gloating. Especially when the subject for it is the lowest and most loathsome example of human refuse. You see Lamb is complaining about us/seeking solace in the moist, blubbery, and foul-smelling embrace of theRPGsite's hugbox.

The way he's carrying on makes me pretty sure he's still reading this thread and quaking in important rage. Still I'll indulge your post-ban tantrum Sacrifical Lamb. I know that somewhere in your shriveled pestilent heart you crave my flowery textual abuse, you know that it's better than you deserve so enjoy another taste. So yeah let's not "ignore Lord Mistborn deliberately ignoring everything that Frank said." I did so much ignore Franks argument as state the version of it that would better appeal to a neutral, or skeptical observer, but for the record I stand by everything Frank has said.

His argument and mine are not complicated, by serving as C.E.O. of Milo Inc Alexander Macris served as a cog in the Alt-Right propaganda machine. Provocateurs like Yiannopoulos contribute to the radicalization of people like the the Christchurch Shooter who have killed hundreds. (Frank feel free to correct my if I am mischaracterizing you at any point). The thing is that Frank and to a lesser extent myself don't really care about your type, chuweros who eat a fuck shit. The good doctor is even less interested in lost causes like yourself than I am, and likely did not consider that a chuwero would be reading his post and would get butthurt enough to cause an incident. Everyone else in the thread understood the thrust of what Frank was about instantly. It was "the guy who makes ACKS is alt-right and a shitter don't give him money" for those of you from theRPGsite and dumb.

Now his particular phrasing had a nice side benefit, when you read it you completely lost your cool. Instead of "hiding your powerlevel"(as the sharper examples of your species would say) and us having to deal with page after page of your diarrhea you posted ban-worthy content in your fourth post in this thread. Given everything you posted before and after that was likely the best possible outcomes. You would never acknowledge the alt-right's fascist recruitment machine which you defend is what it is, it's not in your nature. If you understood that the shit you gleefully fuck, consume, and regurgitate upon any webfourm you do the disservice of joining was shit, then this conversation would not have happend in the first place. (and you would not be in the position you are fuming at your justly deserved ban for rascism.)

Also if you're going to raise a stink about Frank financially damaging Maris the least you can do is give me the credit due. I'm the one who recommended people pirate his game and I stand by that proudly.