So Pathfinder Beta is out...and I'm still sad.

[Psychic Robot]

I was hoping that there would be some major changes to the system. But there weren't. It is still made of sad and fail, so I'm thinking of writing the following on the Paizo boards. However, I want to make sure that I'm right on the money with my criticisms, so I'm posting it here first for revision. For some of the stuff, you'll need to see the Beta documents, which can be found here.

I used to be a regular poster around here. I used to look forward to all the update we'd get. I used to look forward to the new releases. And I was filled with great expectations today, with the release of the Pathfinder Beta.

Then those expectations were brutally crushed underfoot as I went through the document.

I'm going to go through here and tell everyone what is wrong with Pathfinder. I'm not going to be nice or sugarcoat my words. In fact, I'm going to be a huge dick because that's going to get people to react. (Also, I'm very annoyed that Pathfinder sucks at this phase.) I’m (not) sorry if that hurts anyone’s feelings.

Barbarians
Good Lord, these things are still made of shit. Okay, Jason, I hope you’re reading this.

1. Elemental rage: Wow, it’s crap.
Eight rage points for a crappy +1d6? Energy resistance five negates any application. Why the hell would anyone be stupid enough to choose this power? Oh, it applies on ALL attacks? Wow, four attacks, where two of them are going to miss by virtue of having a measly +10/+5 attack. Even then, you could have a WHOPPING +4d6 damage—that’s hooge! So hooge! You might end up killing a CR 6 in one round at level 20! Meanwhile, the cleric just pulled out his beatstick and is winning at D&D.

2. Increased damage reduction: DR 3/—? NO WAI!!1!1!
Yeah, that DR isn’t going to do shit against a dragon’s attacks. The only redeeming quality about this is that it stacks with the barbarian’s DR. Of course, it lasts ONE WHOLE ROUND, making it worthless and crap and fail.

3. Low-light vision/night sight.
Yet another case of ONE WHOLE ROUND!11! syndrome. Seriously. Why isn’t the base ability darkvision with the ability to ignore magical darkness?

4. Renewed vigor.
No scaling = no use. It might not be crap at low levels, but a sixth-level barbarian isn’t going to care about wasting a standard action to heal himself. (As much as I hate to echo the 4e developers…“economy of actions” is an important game concept. At least in 4e, you use a standard action to heal a quarter of your total hitpoints.)

5. Unexpected strike: useless by virtue of a magic weapon or a fifth level wizard.
Needs fewer rage point cost, kthx. What intelligent adventurer wouldn’t have a weapon of speed? What kind of wizard doesn’t cast haste for great justice? Useless, useless, useless.

6. Surprise Accuracy, Strength Surge, Guarded Stance, etc.
Welcome to epic fail. This is what really pisses me off. This is what gets my blood boiling. Why the FUCK would you have scaling powers not have scaling rage point costs? (Unlike on the tit-cock-ass powers that DO have scaling rage point costs that are so high that they're shit.) What kind of bullshit is this where you get a +20 on your attack roll FOR TWO RAGE POINTS, allowing you to Power Attack for free (essentially)?

If I could copy-paste “fail” ten thousand different times into this post, I would. And that would only be a fraction of how much fail is in these class features.

Bards
1. Inspire competence: no scaling bonus is crap.
+2 doesn’t mean shit at high levels. Unlike the barbarian, this doesn’t need a higher cost to make it balanced because nobody really cares about a skill bonus at high levels when one can just get a +15 bonus on skill checks from magic equipment.

2. Auto-stun on deadly performance for the lose.
At least the save DC is fixed. Being able to stun a high-level creature without a check is a little much, methinks.

Clerics and Druids
Still broken but less so.

Fighters
Still broken by virtue of being 3e, but better.

1. Armor Mastery: “Hey, look, I’m still a piece of shit, but I’ve got cookie crumbles on top of me at level 19!”
What the fuck is this bullshit? DR 5/-- at level 19? Gee, thanks, boss, but the fighter just got stabbed in the face by God for over 9,000 points of damage—but that DR 5/-- at LEVEL NINETEEN sure helped out! Good thinking, guys! That sure wouldn’t have been more useful at, say, level seven or something along those lines. Nope, the fighter gets to be near EPIC LEVEL before he gets that HUGE FUCKING DR 5/--.

Monks
1. Flurry of Misses.
One day, a monk went to his master. He said, “I need full BAB, please.”
His master replied, “No, that would break backwards compatibility.”
The monk answered, “That’s bullshit. You just don’t want to change my class around.”
The master sat in silence for a long time. Finally, he said, “You are correct.”

2. Ki pool.
This has potential, but it fails. First, it actually makes the monk weaker—if he drains his ki, his fists are stuck being “normal.” Secondly, it’s more bookkeeping. Thirdly…well, I think that’s all of it. I like the concept, but dropping the rape part where the monk gets turned into a fighter-without-magic-weapons when he uses up his ki would be nice.

3. Healing surge! Or wholeness of body.
Not enough healing done. And it’s no good for being in combat. A character needs to be able to heal himself a lot if he’s going to waste a standard action on it.

Paladins
1. Lay on hands: yet another example of shit healing.
Get these cure shitty wounds abilities out of the game. They are shitty, as their name implies. Sure, the paladin can use heal at level fifty or something…but that’s really too little, too late.

2. Turn undead.
Why the fuck can’t the paladin turn as well as the cleric again?

3. Divine bond: unstackable bonuses taste like crap.
Oh, it’s great that you can channel the power of your god through your weapon Mrs. Paladin. However, you get to suck nuts because it might be overpowered to make you less of a piece of shit. If the bonuses were to stack, the paladin would, at the least, be able to use the divine bond to make sure that she was being useful. As it stands, the divine bond is just a lump of moldering horseshit. The paladin should be able to kick demon ass when using the divine bond.

Furthermore, the wording on this ability is crap:

“When called, a celestial spirit enhances the weapon, causing it to shed light as a torch for 1 minute per paladin level.”

So it sheds light for 1 minute/level. Great. How long does the enhancement last? (Sloppy writing is sloppy. I know it’s 1 minute/level, but it’s bad writing nonetheless.)

Rangers
1. Animal companion: “I’m still junk!”
The only use the ranger’s animal companion has is a) being a scout, or b) (more likely) being lunchmeat. It needs to be STRONG LIKE STALIN. That means more HD! Give it druid animal companion progression, for crying out loud. The favored enemy bonuses don’t cut it—they might make the animal companion able to hit harder, but they sure as hell don’t give it more hitpoints.

Sorcerers
1. Metamagic casting time increases = fail.
Look, we all know that Skip Williams hates sorcerers and wishes that they all had AIDS. That’s no reason to keep them gimped. WotC basically admitted to this fuck-up by repeatedly releasing feat “fixes” that eventually ended up being, “You can use metamagic without sucking.”

2. Growing wings: make it stop burning.
What the fuck. You finally get wings at 9th level, and they end up being a piece of shit. Make them PERMANENT wings. Wizards have been flying around in circles ever since third level. And then the draconic sorcerer has to wait until FIFTEENTH level to get wings.

The fuck? It don’t make no sense.

3. Destined bloodline is shit.
The first-level ability is handy. Then the rest gorge themselves on fecal matter while watching SWAP.avi and masturbating furiously. All the other bloodlines get cool abilities. Destined…not so much.

4. Undead bloodline: wow, I can’t believe somebody actually thought that DR that only worked against nonlethal damage would be good.
And then you did.

Wizards
1. Why does the wizard need his bonded item to cast spells again?
Enlighten me. Because it’s a stupid, unnecessary mechanic, much like ASF. Dump it. And how the fuck does choosing a wand work? What if a player wants a wand of fireballs at level one? WE’VE BEEN ASKING FOR CLARIFICATION ON THESE MECHANICS SINCE THE FIRST RELEASE, GODDAMNIT. HOW MANY FUCKING TIMES DO WE NEED TO REPEAT OURSELVES BEFORE YOU GET IT THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULL?

2. Specialists: fuck.
How dost thou failest? Let me count the ways.

Abjurers: energy resistance 10 = shit.
Conjurers: HOLY SHIT A +6 BONUS TO AC AT LEVEL 20?!!?!? Wow, that’s HOOGE!
Enchanters: Whoo-hoo, skill bonuses. And I can wade into melee combat to stun someone. I’m feeling the love, alright.
Evokers: +5 damage at level 20 = clear win. You might want to nerf this one, Jason. He might win the game.
Necromancers: Wow, another melee attack. Good stuff, Paizo. Good stuff.
Transmuters: A whopping +5 bonus to one ability at level 20. (Oy.)

Feats
I’ll just go in alphabetical order with these.

1. Acrobatic (and all the other shitty +2/+2 feats).
Still crappy, but whatever. At least they got upgraded.

2. Arcane Armor Training: fuck this shit.
I like how the gish has been hit by the nerfbat fifty-two times with these feats. PROTIP: ASF doesn’t actually affect balance. Nobody gives a flying fuck about it. There’s no reason that the feats can’t be “always on.” But nooooo, you had to go and make it a fucking swift action. GOOD JOB, GUYS.

3. Armor Proficiency: Why the hell are we STILL requiring several different feats for this crap?
Good Lord, the feats are horrendous enough as it is; they should just be merged into one goddamn feat to lessen the gaping wound where the anus of any player foolhardy enough to take them used to be.

4. Combat Casting: Still better off with Skill Focus: Spellcraft.

5. Combat Expertise (and Power Attack and any other feats): fuck the players.
Why the Christ—I AM AWARE THAT MAKES NO SENSE—would you gimp this stuff? Giving players control over the “slider” of offense/defense is what made these things good.

6. Double Slice: Why am I getting 1.5x my Strength modifier to my off-hand attacks?
I’m well aware that this is not the intent of the feat, but sloppy writing is sloppy. Add a note that mentions that you get this INSTEAD of the half-strength bonus.

7. Great Fortitude (and Lighting Reflexes and Iron Will): Still shit.
They suck.

8. Maximize Spell is a POS.
Crappy crappy crappy crappy crappy feat. Christ. It remains a “trap” for newbies to D&D.

9. Overhand Chop, please kill me now.
WHOA HOLY SHIT I SAW THIS AND I WAS LIKE OMG OVERPOWERED.

You’re telling me that the fighter can make a SINGLE ATTACK as a standard action and get twice his Strength bonus to damage instead of making two attacks—both of which will probably hit—and getting THREE TIMES his Strength bonus on the attack? Wow, what a deal! Totally worth a feat!

10. Tower Shield Proficiency is still poop.
What a waste of a feat. What…a…waste. A forty-second trimester abortion would be less of a waste than this feat.

11. Vital Strike: stealing from 4e, including the fail.
lol i c wht u did thar—u get [W] 4 attax lololol!1!!!

Too bad this piece of shit doesn’t solve the problem with the attacks at a +10 bonus being crap, and it fucks characters who wield weapons like shortswords or maces in the butt.

Suggestions?

[Maxus]

It's better when you're giving reasons why something doesn't work.

Make it less personal, and don't imply that people who believe this shit is good is stupid--not openly, anyway.

Attack the system and the material presented, not the people who wrote it. Also, don't use such obscene figures of speech, and don't use 'fuck'.

And then you'll still get people disagreeing with you and licking Buhlman's anus, but the thread should pass the requirements of not being deleted.

Also, don't put in the bit about you're being acidic just to get people to respond, because that's practically handing them an excuse to ban you over trolling. Also, actually apologize for the tone, but say that it reflects your actual feelings over the material.

[Leress]

Pretty much agree with Maxus

Plus

Bring it down to a PG-13 level of profanity it makes you look less like you are trolling. Profanity is a spice.

The reason why I don't listen to some of the critiques of my classes is they want to sound all bad ass and start by insulting me and I promptly won't listen to anything you say right after that.

Remove the leet speak and the like it makes you look like you are trolling as well.

I would add a more direct jab at the mission statement of Pathfinder at the end. (but that is just me, I have long since stop giving a damn about 3.POS)

[Psychic Robot]

Sigh. Fine, I suppose that I'll be nicer. I was really more looking for critique of my complaints of mechanics rather than the tone.

[RandomCasualty2]

I would add a more direct jab at the mission statement of Pathfinder at the end. (but that is just me, I have long since stop giving a damn about 3.POS)

Yeah, I can't really bring myself to care much about Pathfinder.

3.X has so many problems that it's just not possible to fix them all. Just the very fact that the game is based on rocket tag is enough of a turn off to me.

[Leress]

Sigh. Fine, I suppose that I'll be nicer. I was really more looking for critique of my complaints of mechanics rather than the tone.

Well, that's the thing you don't have much analysis with your complaints about the mechanics. Any complaints that do have it get covered in the f-bombs and leet speak that makes you look like Spider Jerusalem but without the panache.

[virgil]

Yeah, you do assume that only a tiny reference (buried in the rant) will be logically concluded to agreement by the common forumite; which is doubtful because they're going to go on the defensive very quickly with that tone.

[Maxus]

Oh, I agree with your mechanical analysis, and I think it raises some valid points, so I think it needs to be seen and read--especially by the Paizo crew.

For that to work, it can be abrasive, but not obscene.

[Psychic Robot]

For it to be considered, though, it can't be abrasive. I am currently working on a re-write. Damn...forumites...

[Psychic Robot]

I used to be a regular poster around here. I used to look forward to all the update we'd get. I used to look forward to the new releases. And I was filled with great expectations today, with the release of the Pathfinder Beta.

Then those expectations were brutally crushed underfoot as I went through the document.

I'm going to go through here and tell everyone what is wrong with Pathfinder. I'm going to be blunt. Tact requires a great deal of work that I don’t feel like devoting. I refuse to sugarcoat my words for problems that have yet to be solved despite my bringing them up time and time again.

I hope you’re reading this, Jason.

Barbarians
Sigh.

1. Elemental rage: Wow, it’s bad.
Eight rage points for a pithy +1d6? Energy resistance five negates any application. Even though it applies to all attacks in the round, <i>it’s just not worth it</i>. This needs to be two (2) rage points, and it needs to scale with level—something like +1d6 additional damage for every six levels or so.

What you have to remember is that even though the barbarian might be able to use this +1d6 on four attacks in a round, energy resistance five is going to take five damage off of EACH of those attacks. Which means that 5/6 times, you’re going to be doing no damage at all. And higher-level monsters aren’t going to care about it.

2. Increased damage reduction: DR 3/—?
Yeah, that DR isn’t going to do anything against a dragon’s attacks. This is another power that should cost a flat two rage points and scale with level. Perhaps DR 1/-- for every three levels that you have. If it doesn’t scale, it needs to last longer than one round. When monsters are doing 3d8+13 damage, they’re not going to care if they’re only doing 3d8+10.

3. Low-light vision/night sight.
It’s not good enough. Not only does it last a single round—lame—it is pointless overall. To make this good, it should grant darkvision and then be upgraded later so that you can see through magical darkness.

4. Renewed vigor.
No scaling = no use. It might not be bad at low levels, but a tenth-level barbarian isn’t going to care about wasting a standard action to heal himself for a few hitpoints. (As much as I hate to echo the 4e developers…“economy of actions” is an important game concept. At least in 4e, you use a standard action to heal a quarter of your total hitpoints.)

5. Unexpected strike: useless by virtue of a magic weapon or a fifth level wizard.
This needs fewer rage point cost. What adventurer wouldn’t have a weapon of speed? What kind of wizard doesn’t cast haste for great justice? It’s negated by an entire character class at fifth level.

6. Surprise Accuracy, Strength Surge, Guarded Stance, etc.
ARGH. This is what makes me so annoyed. It makes my blood boil. Here is a fundamental concept that should be applied across the abilities: a low rage point cost that scales with level. Unfortunately, the problem is that these abilities are so good that you’d have to be retarded NOT to take them. They completely outclass the other abilities. A +20 bonus on attack or damage rolls for TWO rage points? Yes, please.

<b>7. Rage point cost for raging: mechanically clunky and complex.</b>
It’s bad. Too much bookkeeping. The duration of the fatigue requires too much hassle on the player’s part—how many rage points did I spend, how many rounds am I fatigued for, am I done being fatigued yet, can I enter a rage again?

Bards
1. Inspire competence: no scaling bonus is bad.
+2 doesn’t mean anything at high levels. This really needs to receive a bonus equal to ½ one’s bard level because one can just get a +15 bonus on skill checks from magic equipment.

2. Auto-stun on deadly performance for the lose.
At least the save DC has been brought down to reasonable levels. Being able to stun a high-level creature without a check is a little strong.

Clerics and Druids
Still broken but less so.

Fighters
Still broken by virtue of being 3e, but better.

1. Armor Mastery: Too little, too late.
DR 5/-- at level 19 is a joke. It’s pathetic. Nothing cares. Monsters are laughing at the fighter for having this ability. DR 5/-- would be more useful around level 5.

I’ll repost my suggestion from before:

Armor training should grant damage reduction.

Light armor gets DR 1/-- per +1.
Medium armor gets DR 2/-- per +1.
Heavy armor gets DR 3/-- per +1.

This helps differentiate the various armor types.



Monks
1. Flurry of Misses.
Monks still miss all the time. Just give them full BAB. I know that you said that it would hurt “backwards compatibility,” but, really, it won’t. Trust me on this—full BAB is a joke, especially when spellcasters can get it really easily.

2. Ki pool.
This has potential, but it fails. First, it actually makes the monk weaker—if he drains his ki, his fists are stuck being “normal.” Secondly, it’s more bookkeeping. Thirdly…well, I think that’s all of it. I like the concept, but dropping the part where the monk gets turned into a fighter-without-magic-weapons when he uses up his ki would be nice.

3. Healing surge! Or wholeness of body.
Not enough healing done. And it’s no good for being in combat. A character needs to be able to heal himself a lot if he’s going to waste a standard action on it. (Again, economy of actions.)

Paladins
1. Lay on hands: yet another example of shit healing.
ARGH. Same problem with wholeness of body. Sure, the paladin can use heal later, but it’s too little, too late.s

2. Turn undead.
Why can’t the paladin turn as well as the cleric again? It’s lame. If anything, the paladin should be able to turn BETTER than the cleric, what with him being a divine awesomeness.

3. Divine bond: unstackable bonuses taste like crap.
If the bonuses were to stack, the paladin would, at the least, be able to use the divine bond to make sure that she was being useful. As it stands, the divine bond is very meh. The paladin should be able to kick demon ass when using the divine bond.

Furthermore, the wording on this ability is bad:

“When called, a celestial spirit enhances the weapon, causing it to shed light as a torch for 1 minute per paladin level.”

So it sheds light for 1 minute/level. Great. How long does the enhancement last? (Sloppy writing is sloppy. I know it’s 1 minute/level, but it’s sloppy writing nonetheless.)

Rangers
1. Animal companion: “I’m still junk!”
The only use the ranger’s animal companion has is a) being a scout, or b) (more likely) being lunchmeat. It needs to be STRONG LIKE STALIN. That means more HD! Give it druid animal companion progression, for crying out loud. The favored enemy bonuses don’t cut it—they might make the animal companion able to hit harder, but they sure as hell don’t give it more hitpoints.

Sorcerers
1. Metamagic casting time increases = fail.
Look, we all know that Skip Williams hates sorcerers and wishes that they all had AIDS. That’s no reason to keep them gimped. WotC basically admitted to this screw-up by repeatedly releasing feat “fixes” that eventually ended up being, “You can use metamagic without sucking.”

Just change it. Please, for the love of God, just let sorcerers be less bad.

2. Growing wings: make it stop burning.
What the deuce. You finally get wings at 9th level, and they end up being junk. Make them PERMANENT wings. Wizards have been flying around in circles ever since third level. And then the draconic sorcerer has to wait until FIFTEENTH level to get wings…

It don’t make no sense.

3. Destined bloodline is blargh.
The first-level ability is handy. Then the rest are very bland, very boring. All the other bloodlines get cool abilities. Destined…not so much.

4. Undead bloodline: damage reduction against nonlethal damage is…uh….
How many monsters are going to be trying to do nonlethal damage? Very few. Damage reduction that ONLY affects nonlethal damage is horrendous. Either make it real damage reduction or make it immune to nonlethal damage.

Wizards
Still overpowered, but less so. It’s 3e, so we’re stuck with it.

1. Why does the wizard need his bonded item to cast spells again?
Enlighten me. Because it’s a stupid, unnecessary mechanic, much like ASF. Dump it. And how the fuck does choosing a wand work? What if a player wants a wand of fireballs at level one? We have been asking for clarification SINCE THE FIRST RELEASE. PLEASE CLARIFY.

2. Specialists: damn.
Bad. Bad.

Abjurers: energy resistance 10 = junk. Nobody cares, especially when there’s a second-level spell that does it better.

Conjurers: +6 to AC is pathetic and unthematic. Mage armor is almost as good, and bracers of armor are better. Now, if you were to make this bonus stack with other forms of armor, it would be palatable. However, it still stands that mage armor SHOULD BE ABJURATION, NOT CONJURATION. It is retarded that the 3e devs made it conjuration. Why not just end the insanity and fix it by making that teeny, tiny little change to school?

Enchanters: Whoo-hoo, skill bonuses. Very…uh…underwhelming in comparison to everyone else. Also, the fact that they have to wade into melee combat to use their ability is bad.

Evokers: +5 damage at level 20 = monsters don’t care. +5 damage doesn’t mean squat. They need more like +5 damage per spell level. (Yes, you read correctly. +45 damage on a ninth-level spell. That way they’d be competitive with the save-or-lose spells.)

Necromancers: Another melee attack. Grumble, grumble, grumble—wizards don’t fare well when they’re in smashing distance.

Transmuters: A whopping +5 bonus to one ability at level 20. That doesn’t stack with any of the nifty spells that the transmuter can cast. Lame.

Feats
I’ll just go in alphabetical order with these.

1. Acrobatic (and all the other crummy +2/+2 feats).
Still crappy, but whatever. At least they got upgraded.

2. Arcane Armor Training: WHY.
I hate how the gish has been hit by the nerfbat fifty-two times with these feats. ASF doesn’t actually affect balance. Nobody cares about it. There’s no reason that the feats can’t be “always on.” The swift action prevents gishes from being useful by buffing themselves with a quickened spell.

3. Armor Proficiency: Why the hell are we STILL requiring several different feats for this crap?
Good Lord, the feats are horrendous enough as it is; they should just be merged into one feat. (No offense to Paizo; the 3e job was just horrible.)

4. Combat Casting: Still better off with Skill Focus: Spellcraft.

5. Combat Expertise (and Power Attack and any other feats): fuck the players.
Why the Christ—I am aware that that makes no sense—would you gimp this stuff? Giving players control over the “slider” of offense/defense is what made these things good.

6. Double Slice: Why am I getting 1.5x my Strength modifier to my off-hand attacks?
I’m well aware that this is not the intent of the feat, but sloppy writing is sloppy. Add a note that mentions that you get this INSTEAD of the half-strength bonus.

7. Great Fortitude (and Lighting Reflexes and Iron Will): Still shit.
They suck. Still. Again, not Paizo’s fault so much as the 3e devs’.

8. Maximize Spell is a POS.
Crappy crappy crappy crappy crappy feat. It remains a “trap” for newbies to D&D.

9. Overhand Chop, please make it good.
Look, a high-level fighter is probably going to be hitting with two attacks out of his four. That means that he’s going to be doing twice his weapon damage plus thrice his Strength modifier. Sure, he has to take a full attack action to do so, but this feat is just lame. Make it an “always on” thing.

10. Tower Shield Proficiency is still poop.
What a waste of a feat.

11. Vital Strike: almost have it.
So close. So very, very close. Unfortunately, this feat has several flaws:

1. It doesn’t solve the attack at a +10 bonus whiffing horribly.
2. It forces characters to use “big” weapons to be effective.
3. It doesn’t do enough.

On the plus side, it synergizes with TWF to some degree.

Better?

[Username17]

For starters, you'll want to mass replace all <i> with [ i]. BBcode and all that.

-Username17

[JonSetanta]

To the BBS/HTML converter, PR!

http://javascript.about.com/library/blscr01.htm

[Orion]

Why are you complaining abou the Wizard specialist abilities? First of all, some of them seem better than you claim. Secondly, do you *really* want wizards to be better than they already are? The specialist abilities aren't *supposed* to be especialy good. 'cause they're free.

[Psychic Robot]

Frank: Yes.
Sigma: I just use Find/Replace.
Boolean: Yes, I want them--the abilities--to be not suck.

[RandomCasualty2]

Boolean: Yes, I want them--the abilities--to be not suck.

Why? Seriously... why?

Wizards already got a ton of shit as it is, and you don't need even more of an incentive to be a specialist wizard especially.

If there's one thing wizards don't need, it's more abilities. They've already got hundreds of pages of spells.

[Kaelik]

Boolean: Yes, I want them--the abilities--to be not suck.

Why? Seriously... why?

Wizards already got a ton of shit as it is, and you don't need even more of an incentive to be a specialist wizard especially.

If there's one thing wizards don't need, it's more abilities. They've already got hundreds of pages of spells.

I believe his point is that if you have 2 options: 1) abilities that suck 2) abilities that don't suck.

2 is better. And since there is no way Pathfinder is going to drop the only differences it has between 3.5 Wizards and it's own, he would prefer for them to not suck.

Also, if you read it over, these abilities are a replacement for Extra specialist spell slots, so they should be at least good enough that every Wizard player in a Pathfinder game doesn't beg the DM to use the PHB Wizard.

[RandomCasualty2]

Also, if you read it over, these abilities are a replacement for Extra specialist spell slots, so they should be at least good enough that every Wizard player in a Pathfinder game doesn't beg the DM to use the PHB Wizard.

Oh, I wasn't aware they removed the specialist slots. I thought that was just in addition to the slots.

Like I said, I really haven't given Pathfinder a heck of a lot of attention.

[Psychic Robot]

Boolean: Yes, I want them--the abilities--to be not suck.

Why? Seriously... why?

Wizards already got a ton of shit as it is, and you don't need even more of an incentive to be a specialist wizard especially.

If there's one thing wizards don't need, it's more abilities. They've already got hundreds of pages of spells.

Because Paizo is keeping the caster-noncaster imbalance. I'd at least like the abilities to be useful. I don't demand them being spectacular or omg awesome, but they're just so weak that they're pointless. I'm much more in favor of "cool" abilities that aren't super powerful, but nothing they've done for the wizard is "cool but weak"; it's all "lame but weak." If the conjurer got a +2 to his summons' Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores, I'd be happy because that's mildly useful. Similarly, if he got the ability to make one of his summons last 10 minutes/level because it's cool and thematic. Or if the necromancer got a skeletal minion, like in the UA variant.

However, the Pathfinder abilities are all very bland and not useful. Your class abilities should never be outdone by a standard magic item or low-level spell.

[RandomCasualty2]

Because Paizo is keeping the caster-noncaster imbalance. I'd at least like the abilities to be useful. I don't demand them being spectacular or omg awesome, but they're just so weak that they're pointless.

Yeah, I mean I don't even see why they gave them to wizards. It's a waste of time for people to consider these new abilities. But it's not something I even remotely care about, because it's the wizard.

I'd much rather complain about how fighters didn't get Tome of Battle style maneuvers, which really, is quite unforgivable in my eyes. Also there's a bunch of spells that still weren't fixed, like astral projection. Protection from evil still cancels out the entire school of enchantment.

But yeah, Pathfinder isn't for me anyway, I guess it's more for wizard fanboys who want to pretend like it's more balanced so they can trick fighter players into not switching to 4E. But we know better, it doesn't do anything and it's the same shit with a fresh coat of paint. And when I see crap like giving rogues and wizards higher hit points "just because", I just laugh at the amazing pile of fail that is Pathfinder.

[Psychic Robot]

Pathfinder is more balanced...just not to the extent that we'd like to see. And to be fair, going all ToB with the fighter class would pretty much break the class. Paizo wants to stay with the "feats feats feats" schtick, so they have to make better feats.

[Leress]

PR: You also need to have a section about the spells that weren't fix.

Seriously, JB says that people he plays with don't take Rogue past level 2...that just blows my mind. So what does he do...does he analyze the class, fuck no he just gives it more abilities. So instead of just getting an awesome cake, now it has a side order of awesome ice cream. He game a boost to the HP some classes pretty much overhauled rage, but didn't give the monk full BAB. Most of the playtest I saw on that site weren't playtest at all.

Pathfinder is more balanced...just not to the extent that we'd like to see. And to be fair, going all ToB with the fighter class would pretty much break the class. Paizo wants to stay with the "feats feats feats" schtick, so they have to make better feats.

You have to be shitting me. Most of the things in Pathfinder are just other peoples ideas from years ago. He also still has that broken ass bonded object in the beta even after everyone was talking about it being broken. All I see is just adding sprinkles to 3.5

[Psychic Robot]

Ack, the spells. God, I hate dealing with broken spells. So protection from evil and astral projection are still of the brokenation...getting rid of save-or-loses really would be too much of a nerf, unfortunately. And I think that perhaps protection from evil is good, in a way, in that it prevents enchantment from beating the pants off everything.

Gah. You can't win. Rock-paper-scissors-atomic bomb.

That's the problem, really. Enchantment spells being save-or-"I win" and all. But they're such a fantasy element that I wouldn't get rid of them.

EDIT: Be that as it may--about JB taking ideas--Pathfinder is more balanced in that druids are less overpowered, fighters suck less (though they still suck), and a lot of the omgwtf spells have been nerfed.

[RandomCasualty2]

Ack, the spells. God, I hate dealing with broken spells. So protection from evil and astral projection are still of the brokenation...getting rid of save-or-loses really would be too much of a nerf, unfortunately. And I think that perhaps protection from evil is good, in a way, in that it prevents enchantment from beating the pants off everything.

Gah. You can't win. Rock-paper-scissors-atomic bomb.

That's the problem, really. Enchantment spells being save-or-"I win" and all. But they're such a fantasy element that I wouldn't get rid of them.

Enchantment can easily be fixed with a few rules.

-You can only charm/dominate something with less hit dice than you have, otherwise the spell fails.
-The spells have a duration of 24 hours or less.
-If you recast the spell, the creature gets another save, and the spell is broken if your new spell does not succeed. You cannot order the creature to voluntarily fail its save.

That pretty much fixes enchantment.

The other part of dealing with save or dies spells is just giving people abilities to get good saves, much like Tome of Battle did, where once per encounter, a fighter could pretty much auto succeed on a will save.

Seriously, JB says that people he plays with don't take Rogue past level 2...that just blows my mind. So what does he do...does he analyze the class, fuck no he just gives it more abilities. So instead of just getting an awesome cake, now it has a side order of awesome ice cream. He game a boost to the HP some classes pretty much overhauled rage, but didn't give the monk full BAB. Most of the playtest I saw on that site weren't playtest at all.

Yeah Bulman seriously doesn't seem like he knows D&D very well at all. It still seems like he's years behind the times, thinking that barbarians are crazy good because they get d12 hit dice.

[ckafrica]

has much of anything changed since the alpha3?

[Gelare]

Man, I definitely liked the first rant better, the second one seems so...tame. But oh well, I suppose that's the problem you face when actually trying to be heard by a bunch of people who don't want to listen.