[4E] Epic Seeker slowly getting better all the time.

[Lago PARANOIA]

Let's not mince words. When 4E first came out, Epic Seeker was ass. There was no reason to take the class at all. It had a couple of really killer apps but on the whole was forgettable.

However, things are slowly starting to look brighter for the Epic Seeker. Let's take a look.


Level 21: Seeker of Many Paths.

At first this looks like a raw deal what with multiclassing feats and really I don't have a hard time blaming you for thinking so. But with Martial Power out and a few characters starting to feel a feat crunch it does save you on a few feats.

But the big deal now is that there are enough classes out there now to cobble together enough powers for your awesome. For example, a warlord could seriously cobble together these powers in their arsenal:

Encounters
Encounter 23 (Barbarian): Hurricane of Blades - 6 (!) melee attacks.
Encounter 3 (Fighter): Rain of Blows - 4 melee attacks with the right weapon.
Encounter 27 (Ranger): Death Rend - 2 melee attacks, if both hit then stun the enemy.

Dailies
Daily 5 (Fighter): Rain of Steel - At the start of every enemy that's adjacent to you's turn they take [W] damage.
Daily 29 (Ranger): Follow-Up Blow - Every time you make a melee attack you can follow up with another melee attack with your offhand weapon at a -2 penalty.
Daily 25 (Warlord): Relentless Assault- Until the end of the encounter, when you or an ally scores a critical hit you and each ally can make a basic attack as a free action.
Daily 20 (Battle Lord of Kord PP): Path of the Storm: You can shift a number of squares equal to your charisma modifier. During this movement, you can make a number of melee basic attacks equal to your charisma modifier.

Utilities

Daily 22: Relentless Assault: Until the end of your next turn, you and eveyr all can make basic attacks as minor actions.
Encounter 6: Guileful Switch: As a minor action, swap initiative checks with an ally. They act on your turn, even if they've already acted this turn. You act when the ally would have.
Daily 10: Instant Planning: Until the end of your next turn, every taget gains a choice of a power bonus to attack rolls equal to your charisma.

Daily 12 (Battlelord of Lord): Expend one use of inspiring word to regain the use of an encounter attack power you have used during this encounter. [ED Note: Which is going to be Hurricane of Blades, of course]
Daily 6 (Fighter): Settling the Score- You gain a +2 power bonus to attack rolls against the triggering creature until the end of the encounter.
Daily 6 (Paladin): Wrath of the Gods- Until the end of the encounter


Level 24 Eternal Action: This is precisely why they invented Violet Solitaires, so you can get an extra action point every encounter, especially with all of the attacks that you will be making.

So of course you'll get one or two more standard actions than everyone else every encounter.

Level 26: Seeker's Lore It's a level 22 utility power. It might seem like ass compared to Divine Regeneration and Epic Trick, but trust me when I say that those powers are aberrations compared to what the game wants you to get. I personally like the swordmage's Giant Stance power which gives you a +2 bonus to attack rolls, +5 bonus to damage rolls, and large size for the rest of the encounter.

Level 30: Seeker's Destiny Not as good as Divine Miracle. But then, what is? Regardless, getting to cherry-pick a level 24 epic destiny feature can be awesome. I prefer Great Power from Eternal Defender personally. Bigger weapon damage dice, extra square of reach? Yes, please.

[zeruslord]

An epic destiny designed for dumpster-diving gets better with more, less thoroughly playtested options. Inconceivable!

[Username17]

But you're talking about Epic characters in 4e. They suck. At things. So you get six melee attacks, your enemies have 1300 hit points, and your six melee attacks don't do a tenth of that. The only thing meaningful on any list are the Mezzes, and the Wizard can get plenty of those free with his cheerios.

You still may as well just take Demigod if for some reason you actually tried to play this stupid game at levels 21+. Get a bonus to Int and Wis. Drive the game farther off the RNG and laugh while you do it.

-Username17

[Lago PARANOIA]

But you're talking about Epic characters in 4e. They suck. At things. So you get six melee attacks, your enemies have 1300 hit points,

Those are only solo encounters, Frank, and they're designed to have much more hp than other monsters.

Let's take a look at monster hp for a second, but the non-solos.

Sorrowsworn Reaper, L27 Soldier: 254 hp
Sorrowsworn Soulreaper, L28 Lurker: 204 hp
Efreet Karadjin, L28 Soldier: 260 hp
Dragonborn Champion, L26 soldier: 239 hp
Storm Gorgon L26 skirmisher: 248 hp

and your six melee attacks don't do a tenth of that.

Hold on for a second, Frank, you're selling short what certain characters can do with the power of splatbooks.

Here's the kind of damage a Tempest Pit Fighter can throw out per [W] attack:

Bugbear Tempest Fighter / Pit Fighter / Whatever. Emphasizes strength and wisdom, dexterity third.

2d6 (double sword + oversized) + 8 (strength) + 6 (enh) + 6 (item) + 12 (reckless) + 3 (weapon focus) + 4 (tempest technique + agile tempest) + 2 (light blade precision) + 7 (dirty fighting) + 1 (TWF) + 7 (marked scourge) = 2d6 + 55 = 62 average damage.

If a Rain of Blows hits with all four attacks, that's enough to take down any non-elite/solo monster. Especially if you have the Rain of Steel stance active, which deals out...

2d6 (DS) + 6 (enh) + 3 (weapon focus) + 2 (light blade precision) + 7 (dirty fighting) + 1 (TWF) + 7 (marked scourge) = 2d6 + 26 = at least 32 extra damage per round.

Why Rain of Steel? Well, it's a 5th level daily power which means you can replenish it with Salves of Power.

If you feel like burning through your action points, you can definitely invest in Veteran's Armor, which lets you get back tastier dailies. If you're doing this, there's no reason not to have Follow-up Blow in your corner pocket.

And trust me, you want this stance active often as possible. And with the magic of Salves of Power, you can definitely make this a possibility.

When you are facing an elite monster, do this:

Use Rain of Blows. Pop an action point, get Rain of Blows back from your martial mastery feat. With your extra standard action, use hurricane of blades.

Next round, use Rain of blows again. It's very likely that with the 10 or more attacks you took you'll have triggered a critical hit. This is when you use your Epic Resurgence power to get Hurricane of Blades back.

That's 20 attacks that deal 62 damage in two rounds. If you're facing a solo monster, pop Follow-Up blow and back that ass up with 40 attacks.

So yeah. 4th Edition characters sucked with the core book, but if you scrimp and scrape for enough material you can get what you need to succeed.

[Elennsar]

If I'm going to spend that much money and time and so on getting material to not suck..

I'll spend my $100 and two weeks wait on something that will be bearable at worst from the begining, and enhanced by my investment, thank you very much.

This is like buying a game that is bug riddled and claiming that if you buy enough patches it'll be okay.

Hell, a boat with holes all over and the same. Can't I just get a better boat?[/i]

[Lago PARANOIA]

This is like buying a game that is bug riddled and claiming that if you buy enough patches it'll be okay.

Hell, a boat with holes all over and the same. Can't I just get a better boat?

4th Edition is sooner or later going to have online gaming support ala Neverwinter Nights and I want to get into the ground floor on that.

[SphereOfFeetMan]

2d6 (double sword + oversized) + 8 (strength) + 6 (enh) + 6 (item) + 12 (reckless) + 3 (weapon focus) + 4 (tempest technique + agile tempest) + 2 (light blade precision) + 7 (dirty fighting) + 1 (TWF) + 7 (marked scourge) = 2d6 + 55 = 62 average damage.

Fuck me running. 4e was supposed to be less complex than 3e? This is more complex than a 3e martial character this early in 3e's run. I mean goddamn. What is a 4e character going to look like 3 years from now? Eight years from now?

[Draco_Argentum]

Sooner or later you'll be able to engage in shitting fetishes online via virtual reality, are you going to get in on the ground floor of that too?

[koz]

Sooner or later you'll be able to engage in shitting fetishes online via virtual reality, are you going to get in on the ground floor of that too?

There's no accounting for taste. Fetishism included.

[Lago PARANOIA]

Not only that. Fantasy in particular is escapist - it is designed to make us believe that Joe Nobody can take on established awesome people (or The Establishment) single-handed and win, despite not being able to do so in real life. It's feelgood material, which is why people prefer it.

4E by and large sucks and is a step back, but I enjoy this game in the same way I enjoyed Neverwinter Nights.

Just easy, non-threatening turn-off-your-brain dice rolling.

[Hicks]

What is a 4e character going to look like 3 years from now? Eight years from now?

It is probably going to look a lot like a (recycled) newspaper. You don't enshrine them, do you?