Base Stats and High-School Games

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:53 am

Everyone loves high school RPGs, it is a fact. And I almost accidentally ended up waist-deep in a project to make one. I'm going to give it the working title of Emperor-sama no Gakuen.

Anyway, rather than posting some grand thing here, I just want to ask about the best division of stats. As in, ability scores. Whatever. I'm liking the idea of having the stats not be modifiers that are then added to skills (so each stat covers a broad range of different actions), and also each one being listed as a subject taught, with a grade to determine the value, much like in Wandering Monster High School*.

For instance "Gym/Phys Ed (A-), Lore and Literature (C), Etiquette (B+), Practical Studies (F)".

What is a good number of base stats, and how should the division of labour be handled? If combat is like 1/3 of the game (and the thing that kills you if you fail it), it can't be just one stat, because everyone maxes it and goes about their way.

They should, between the lot of them, cover:
[*]Making other people die
[*]Avoiding death from other people
[*]Scaring people with words and/or actions
[*]Lies/disguises
[*]Hiding
[*]Investigating
[*]Research
[*]Talking to people so they like you
[*]General athletic stuff
[*]Survival skills (note: it's the Schola Progenum, the first lesson is literally "how to make a knife out of whatever is around". The second lesson is "How to hide it.")
[*]History/weird lore and legends
[*]First aid/health-medical stuff
[*]Weapon maintenance (& recognition of quality)
[*]Tactics and other "combat lore"
[*]TEAMWORK AND FRIENDSHIP AND CAMARADERIE

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:52 am

Drama, Gym, Health, History, Shop, Science, Killing, Killing, Killing?

An F should really mean incapacitation or something. D should be the worst you can start out with. +/- grades are probably more granularity than you really need.

CapnTthePirateG · Post by **CapnTthePirateG** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:59 am

Something like this?

http://mallsandmorons.pbworks.com/w/pag ... /FrontPage

Chamomile · Post by **Chamomile** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:13 am

Etiquette should cover all the social skills, especially the shifty ones, if only because I enjoy irony.

Unfortunately, splitting up the combat abilities amongst multiple courses runs straight into the problem that putting these all together into the same class makes, by far, the most sense. Why would you learn striking in P.E. and blocking in Applied Science?

There's also the problem of certain things, like THE POWER OF FRIENDSHIP, which makes sense as being bundled with other social bits like lies and disguises, yet it's very easy to imagine a character who's good at one but not the other. It'd be interesting to have classes which took a little bit of everything (i.e. Being Perhaps Too Aggressive For Your Own Good 101 would cover attacking, lying, intimidation, and investigation/stalking, but not defending, insight, charm, or research), but then it gets hard to figure out what the courses could actually be called. Plus, then it's impossible to have certain valid character concepts like the social butterfly who's no good at academics or athletics, or the standard D&D autistic murder savant (who would be more interesting in a high school where Charisma as the dump stat might actually come back to bite you anyway).

It's kind of hard to tell, not having any idea what kind of system you're working at, but I think you might want to go with having a total of about 12-15 courses total, with each character having about 5-8 of them on their sheet. Just over half of the courses should be "core," shared among all characters, and the remainder are elective slots that you can plug any of the ~9 elective courses into.

Also, remember to make a spot for blood type on the character sheet. That's very important information that should not be overlooked.

PhoneLobster · Post by **PhoneLobster** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:34 am

I have only a few pieces of advice.

1) If you are doing that "they are actual subjects" thing you need to divide them into Required subjects and Electives.

2) I you want to enforce stereotypes you should use ability pricing to do so. Athletics and certain Electives should be really pricy to create jocks and odd ball Industrial Arts experts. While Science, Math and such should sufficiently cheap that a character that DIDN'T buy expensive Jock/Oddball skills could fill the "Puny Academic Know It All Who Isn't Good with Car Engines" role.

3) This sounds like your fairly typical rules lite bullshit system. You've seen my material on that. It's not exactly hard to adapt to pretty much anything like this. Use it. Go on.

4) Have you seen Todd and the Book Of Ultimate Evil. It seems to bring to the screen all the incompetence, campness, raw stupidity and penis jokes expected from High School demon hunters that Buffy promised but never delivered. I advise this to you in the words of Atticus Murphy Jr, "...As your guidance counselor, which is what I am..."

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:29 am

Argumentation and Debate Research, Critical Thinking, Forming and Delivering Persuasive Arguments, Ignoring Persuasive Arguments
Track and Field Speed/Stamina over long distances, Height/Length jumping, Small group of weapons (discus, javelin, throwing hammer, shot put)
Stick or Ball Sports Speed/Stamina over short distances, Stick combat or Ranged Attacks, Brawling, Hand/Eye coordination. Also take a specialty (baseball, hockey, lacrosse, Aikido, etc) to gain small bonus in your field
Physical Sciences Ranged attacks (because you can calculate them), Make Chemical weapons,
Life Sciences Healing, Anatomy, Creating new organisms if that's in the setting
Shop Repair/Crafting, Diagnostics, Piloting/Driving
Body Sports Stamina/Fortitude, Strength, Grappling, Pick a specialty (Football, Wrestling, Boxing, Karate, etc) for small bonuses in field and specific related things
Computers Hacking, The Computer part of The Anarchist's Cookbook
Art Remember small visual details that the party forgot to record (magic circle, that sort of thing), Take visual records of areas that defy photography. Reproducing symbols and alien languages.
Disused Restroom of the Seventh Floor Make/use explosives, Cheat pay machines, Pick up attractive members of the compatible sex/orientation through treating them like shit/ignoring them, Basically anything in the Anarchists Cookbook that doesn't involve computers, or that The Fonz/the Greasers from Grease do. (maybe make a merit or roll into shop, since that's the class these types typically do well in).

that's pretty much what I got now.

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:43 pm

CatharzGodfoot wrote:Drama, Gym, Health, History, Shop, Science, Killing, Killing, Killing?

An F should really mean incapacitation or something. D should be the worst you can start out with. +/- grades are probably more granularity than you really need.

Gave this some more thought. Gym = beating people up with your bare hands. Health = nutshots. History = tactics. Shop = melee weapons & armor. Science = explosives and caustics. You could throw in Math, which would include the use of firearms, but that might be a little too dark.

The electives idea is a good one, but with combat having such a central role they shouldn't be too hard to get or required to fight. Drama (disguise, traps), Music (bardic bullshit, hitting people with guitars), Art (Roadrunner tricks? Being edgy and non-mainstream?), and Debate or Philosophy make a decent starting set.

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:11 pm

Unless you're limiting this thing to just super urban areas (and even then, what about the transfer kids?) it sounds to me like you need an Ecology and Agriculture category to cover some of the nature and survival skills. It could be a grab bag category to pump for both the stereotypical hick kids who don't understand why the gun rack on the truck makes people nervous and that girl with the hemp bracelets and PETA card that knows everything about agribusiness because she hates it so much. If that leads to people making bombs out of manure as they start a career as a budding eco-terrorist or knowing where to get the gallon of pig blood to dump on Carrie, then you'll know you're doing it right.

Edited because I'm dyslexic as hell.

ishy · Post by **ishy** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:22 pm

Math should be the evil overlords all about numbers -

Rush them with large supplies of class mates

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:28 pm

Okay, I'll go into more detail - but when it's all finished I'll post it up in IMOI.

This started with me thinking of using Ren'py (tool for making visual novels/dating sims/eroge) to make a dating sim set in the Schola Progenum. That's the scholastic system of 40k, and basically the only part of the Imperium that works or could be seen as a good thing. It is so good that nobles will literally disown their children so they can be accepted (it is an orphanage system) and taught to the best standards in this elite school (there are many across the galaxy, ranging from 2 teachers, a dozen students and a shed to massive cathedrals with the full range of staff and thousands of students). Then, once their children graduate, they re-adopt them.

Despite being run by the Ecclesiarchy, this actually does teach them well, not only with general life skills (yes, this includes firearms use. I did say it's 40k) but also helping to recognise their strengths, identify a role that would make them ideal for, and propelling them towards it. basically all Commissars, Imperial Storm Troopers, Arbiters, Battle Sisters, Medics and Adepts (actual scholars who are literate in various languages and are allowed to go over history and lore and actually question things and study science!) are from there.

So I asked if there was a source of any info beyond the brief mention in Dark Heresy. People gave info and assumed I was thinking about running a game set in it. Well, it skyrocketed from there...

So, I don't want modern day stereotypes like the Grease club and the Bitchy Cheerleaders and so on. I shudder to think what they would translate to in 40k. The cheerleaders would probably be like the ones in the video for "Teenagers Scare the Living Shit Out of Me" (they wear full gas masks).

I was thinking of having a system of "Not a Challenge: you just succeed. Standard Challenge: difficulty 5, Difficult Challenge: difficulty 10, Extreme Challenge: difficulty 15. Roll (D = 1d6, C = 2d6, B = 3d6, A = 4d6), if it's (letter)+ then add one, if it's (letter)- then subtract one. Add the total together."

I know roll-and-add can take time, but when the most dice you roll are seriously 4d6 (or 5d6 if going for the anime-style thing where, after A+, you have S rank), that shouldn't be too big a deal. I suppose it's also possible to do it Maid style where you roll 1d6 and multiply that by your grade number.

That means that for a Standard Challenge, a D (failing grade) only succeeds 1/3 of the time, but it's still within the bounds of reason. A D+ actually has a 50-50 chance. And any passing grade "usually" succeeds (A+ can't actually fail without a penalty).

It means a Difficult Challenge is impossible if you have a failing grade (without bonuses from various sources, and if you're picking up a total of +4 from things, that should be both rare AND situational, not a case of literally having "+4 to X checks" on your sheet). A C grade can pass it, but not reliably, and B or above will succeed at least half the time.

And it means Extreme Challenges are basically only possible on a B- or above (and in the Bs, it isn't likely, and you need an A+ to succeed on the most average roll).

If PL and Frank promise not to turn this into an argument about bell curves with each other, I am totally willing to listen to advice on better ideas, though. That said, I just don't like dice pool mechanics where each die may or may not be contributing* (ie Shadowrun, WoD). You can basically blame White Wolf for that, but it does mean if there are multiple dice, they're getting added, and if that's terrible, then we scrap that and go with a single die + bonus, not a dice pool of "roll XdY, each die succeeds on a Z plus".

*As irrational as it is, it leaves me feeling like I wasted any resources that didn't come up as a success. So whereas "I roll 1d20+8 against DC 20, rolled 11+8==19 and failed", where I say "Damn, if only I had another +1", I roll 1 success on a dice pool of 6, and say "Goddamnit, those 3 skill dots did literally nothing, I should have spent the XP elsewhere".

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:06 pm

So yeah. I'm liking the idea of basically going:
1. Pick your specialist field that you're enrolled in. This gives you some extra equipment, some bonuses on specific actions, a vague "House" you belong to (and thus some extra NPCs to interact with, useful for the MCPrincipal* at the start of the game, when they want to make some NPCs but not flesh out every single person) and some specific abilities that only they can do. These upgrade with each year level.
2. Pick some elective subjects to go with your mandatory ones. Mandatory subjects will cover anything that is assumed to be essential in gameplay, electives can be extra skills that you will do because you're choosing them (so stuff like lock-picking).
3. Assign your grades. There will likely be an array, with possible modifiers, as opposed to random-rolling or a true point-buy. Like, say there are six subjects, you have A, B, B, C, C, D, and can add a + to up to three of them, but for each + to one, you need a - to another, and can't go ++ to increase from B to B+ to A- or vice versa.
4. Select your Club Activity, which is more in-depth than an elective subject - it includes extra resources, a special ability, and some NPCs to interact with.
5. There might be remaining things to select from, such as a choice of starting gear, or maybe a Maid-style "You get a special ability based on your best Grade" (select one if there's a tie), or possibly a Warp Cult style good stuff and bad stuff thing, where you must assign 1-5 points on "vaguely bad traits that make good plot hooks", and you can then pick good traits with a total value no higher than your points spent on bad traits.
6. Note down your best friend (can be a player or an NPC you work with the principal to make), rival/enemy (ditto) and beloved/crush/idol (ditto). These will have some in-game effect, but mostly it's to help with NPC creation/set up some hooks for character interaction from the start. Yes, you do this before everyone has actually properly met. It means these are the people you are destined to feel this way for. Or you could leave it until after the first session, and base it on your actual reactions.

And all of that looks kind of lengthy, but it shouldn't actually be too big a deal. Especially when choices are listed out neatly, with a good set of guidelines for what they cover so people will know ahead of time "If I take this class, then I can do ___. If I have an A in ___, then I am specifically good at ___."

And then gameplay will almost always be "Use ___ ability to just DO ___, rolling probably not necessary", "Principal says to make a ___ check, the game even says what classes cover that" and "You decide you want to do ___, make a case for using such and such class".

Not sure if NPCs should just be built like PCs (possibly like cut-down PCs, without the advantages/disadvantages and special abilities and all that, or maybe using a handy table in the book of "This is a standard ___. There are some customisation points here and here. Make all ___ like this, and then change X if you want something different") and have opposed stuff be a case of X vs Y, or if NPCs should basically be a set of challenge levels, so they are a Challenge of X to attack with such and such skill, and when they attack it's a Challenge of Y for you to avoid it.

*Principal for MC: someone who says how everything works, and lays out rules, but nobody actually listens to.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:39 pm

On the high school stereotypes, rather than actually having cheerleaders, jocks, greasers, etc, you could instead have in canon groups fulfill those roles. So rather than having cheerleaders, you have future Sister Adepts, or whatever the fuck they're called, instead of jocks, you have future Space Wolves (or future Space Marines in general), that act similarly, and so on.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:48 pm

Space Marines tend to be one of the few groups not pulled from the Schola: many chapters just have their own harems they use to make babies with, so the children can be born with some of the genetic awesome. And others are usually recruited from particularly competent guardsmen and undergo gene therapy.

Adepta Sororitas, you must remember, are insane religious zealots. And violent. Cheerleading (as I can guess from movies etc. - Australia doesn't have cheerleaders as far as I can tell) is supposed to be about:
[*]Cheering others on, rather than just getting out there and shooting them yourself ("girls can't do anything right!")
[*]Being vapid sluts
[*]Spending inordinate amounts of time in the shower, if my Internet research is accurate
[*]Being plotting, scheming bitches

But there could still be things like the athletic House Storm Trooper doing a panty raid on House Sororitas.

And for the record, I know I said I was going to get out of the whole 40k thing and move onto stuff that isn't as stupid and also is my own IP, but... I keep getting dragged back. At least I refuse to take it seriously.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:54 pm

Actually, as far as I can tell from High School dramas and such, Football is basically a religion for cheerleaders, specifically, their team is their god, and they are all whore-priestesses, quick to spread their legs for any representative of their god. The other stuff is just "popular girl" stuff. or... high school stuff.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:49 pm

So it looks like we definitely have Gym. This covers close combat fighting (dodging, blocking and attacking), as well as basic athletics. And playing actual sports. Yes, even medics and such have to do some running.

Health could be a mandatory one, which could cover: making called shots/special combat actions, first aid, staying healthy due to diet and the like, and even hygiene (so people can make the argument of using Health for their "get someone to like me" test).

History is a bit too specific. Maybe just seriously have Lore be a subject. That would cover literature, history, myths, maybe even battlefield tactics, and people could try to argue to use it as a sort of backup knowledge of other things ("Well I don't personally know how to do X, but I read a scroll about it once so I could give it a shot?")

I like the idea of taking the Home Economics (and the three other things it gets renamed at different year levels - the "Stuff you need to know when you actually start living on your own in the real world" class) and modifying it to be 40k-appropriate. This would be the "How to spot snipers, fashion shivs out of stuff, and survive in the wilderness" class. Have a good name for it as a subject? This could also cover stealth, I suppose.

It makes sense for the setting for Religious Studies (or Hymns and Prayers or something) to be a Mandatory class, but I'm not sure what it'd actually cover - generally, the only ones to make use of their faith are the priests and Sororitas.

And I'm still not sure if there should be a Mandatory subject that covers "talking to people", one that covers research and investigation, and where "shooting and not getting shot" should fall under.

---

Workshop/Mechanica sounds like a good Elective choice, letting them make basic equipment with tools (or indeed, out of tools), and they could probably sub it for their attacking class when using weapons they themselves made - their knowledge of the thing being more important than general firearms training. Likewise it could be used for repairs and other stuff that makes them a shoe-in for being selected by the Adeptus Mechanicus. But at the same time, many Imperials literally have no fucking clue how it works and would write "I PRAY HARD!" on the exam sheet, so don't have this class. Could potentially cover lockpicking, though so could the fieldcraft/espionage mandatory subject.

Science should be an elective too. Yes, in normal schools, people have to do "Science" up to some year, then select at least one subtype of science to do as a mandatory thing, but this is 40k. Choosing to do Science still limits you (some things will just always be banned), but this lets you experiment with poisons and bacterial agents, explosives and acids, and so on. Potentially could be used for cooking.

Debate would be a good elective for specifically convincing people things, covering Diplomacy, Lying and Intimidation, really. Whereas taking Acting/Drama allows for Disguises and Lying, and indeed could even cover camouflage.

There can easily be a whole bunch of electives to choose from.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:16 pm

I want to play game so bad. Visions of a composite character of Hermione Granger and Channon Yarrow have come to mind... "I don't know this specific thing, but I was just reading this tome last night and I think I can figure it out" and making her own guns so the teachers don't have an unfair advantage...

Leress · Post by **Leress** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:23 pm

I recommend if you can find it "Panty Explosion" it's about psychic japanese school girls, but can have guys too. It pretty much does the whole gambit of using a character's zodiac, blood type, and element for conflict resolution.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:28 pm

I looked at Panty Explosion for the name, and was highly disappointed. I got it for free and still felt ripped off.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:05 am

Right. How does this look for the lists of things?

House/Area of Expertise:
[*]Acolyte: gain Inquisition-related abilities, get taught some forbidden lore, become particularly good with one specific type or lore or other sub-skill like first aid. If actually selected by an Inquisitor, immediately get placed in the Student Council.
[*]Adepta Sororitas: gain Faith-based abilities and training with solid projectile weapons (weapons provided), along with religious skills. As a 2nd year, get considered for entry into the Student Council.
[*]Arbiter: gain bonuses to interrogation and close combat, get a shotgun (and the training for it), and learn take-down techniques. As a 2nd year, get invited to join the Discipline Committee (a sub-section of the Student Council).
[*]Commissar: gain pistol training, a pistol, bonuses against fear (and eventual fearlessness), and training in bossing others about. Gradually get the hat, coat and badge. As a 3rd year, get considered for entry into the Student Council.
[*]Ecclesiarch: gain bonuses to various lores and similar things, and with close combat weapons. Get various perks like extra comfort items, and Faith-based abilities. As a 4th year, you can be put into a teaching position already, or be added to the Student Council.
[*]Storm Trooper: get bonuses to various espionage skills, and actual camouflage and other gear. Learn various fighting techniques and enjoy the most excursions out of school.

Mandatory Subjects:
[*]Espionage (possibly a different name): camouflage, detecting traps and hidden foes, stealth, wilderness survival, tracking, making makeshift weapons, resisting torture
[*]Gym: looking muscular, close combat, general athletics, sport
[*]Health: staying clean (and attractive), first aid, knowledge of weak points
[*]Lore: history, languages, reading scriptures, research/study skills, myth

Elective Subjects: (select 4)
[*]Art: includes sketches, recognition of great works, crafting, photography, and map-making - valued by the Explorator Club
[*]Debate: various aspects of talking at people until they agree with you
[*]Drama: acting, singing, dancing, costume design (disguises) and the like - valued by the Music Club
[*]Forensics: investigation skills, looking at the evidence and the like - required for Arbiters
[*]Hunting: trapmaking, shooting, animal skinning and so on - required for Storm Troopers
[*]Hymns & Prayers: making sense of the myths and texts, singing, appearing devout and pious - required for Adepta Sororitas and Ecclesiarchs
[*]Piloting: some vehicle maintenance, mostly navigation and actually driving various things - valued by the Racing Club
[*]Science: covers explosives, poisons, acids, diseases and can also cover for cooking and shooting. Depending how you play it, could be used for psychology stuff.
[*]Tech: making and maintaining simple weapons, making ammo, assembling weapons from the various parts, vehicle maintenance.

Of the Clubs (you can join one) there are:
[*]Combat Club: yes, it's Fight Club
[*]Cooking Club: they one day wish to take over the canteen, so people can eat better food than "recycled dead guardsman". Especially active/prized around big events and festivals, and the equivalent of Valentine's Day.
[*]Do Nothing Club: basically, you slack off. You have more time to do as you please, but get no benefits, and teachers (correctly) think you are lazy.
[*]Duty Club: people who help out more than students are usually required to with cleaning and maintaining the place. Some view them as suck-ups, and many actually are, but it works.
[*]Explorators: basically, they go around mapping the whole school out, exploring the place... while some view that as a bit weird and nerdy, it means they know good hiding places, and can even find long-forgotten stashes of stuff.
[*]Music Club: it's about playing music, and doing it well. Highly valued for the school dance/prom, and general festivals. They can even boost people's morale in amazing ways.
[*]Racing Club: a group of delinquents, they actually use whatever vehicles the Schola campus has and race them. Basically they ended up been given the official club so there is one time a day that they can do their racing - it was designed as damage control.
[*]Sports Club: a club for people who excel in various sports to practice what they do, work on teamwork stuff, and actually get real games in.
[*]Strategy Club: basically, they play wargames. Yes really.
And possibly some more if anyone suggests some good ones. Most clubs have a President (usually a 3rd or 4th year), Treasurer and possibly Secretary/Note-Taker.

The Student Council: in most cases, you have to actually be invited into the Student Council, which replaces your Club, and it usually provides you with a distinct role (although there are a few general members who are there for the purpose of voting and being elite minions). There is a rumour that they outrank the High Lord of Terra. That is probably not true, but they like to keep people guessing. There are several positions of rank: President (always a 4th year), Vice-President, Treasurer, Secretary, Manager of General Affairs.
[*]Discipline Committee: a sub-faction of the Student Council, these are basically thugs who work for the Council to make sure everyone stays in line. Kind of a secret (or not-so-secret) police of the students, generally following the will of the Schola itself. Only one special rank exists here: the Morality Officer (the head of the Discipline Committee).

PhoneLobster · Post by **PhoneLobster** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:10 am

Wait this is all now 40K high school fan fic or something?

I am now ashamed to have associated the penis jokes from Todd and the Book of Ultimate evil with this project.

Can't you move on from sucking games workshops limp and uninteresting cock already?

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:47 am

Well I'm glad you don't want to associate penis jokes with it, because they belong on notfunny.comcollegehumor.com

And I thought I had moved on from 40k-themed stuff, but it seems to just follow me.

That being said, the best way to get anyone interested in the game you make is to tie it in with stuff people like, otherwise all you've done is make the million-and-eighth generic game that nobody cares about.

Given how little there is that fits both these categories:
A. I like it enough to write a game about it
B. Enough other people like it enough to play a game about it

My choices basically are limited to "Do a completely original thing that nobody cares about", "Do something based on one of the various anime I'm recently into and that nobody will care about" or "Something 40k".

(Note that if I didn't just file the serial numbers off but actually excised the 40k bits and made it some generic "Boarding School Where They Teach Survival and Military Stuff" then it would be bland and uninteresting to most.)

And the Schola Progenum thing is totally canon. It is a part of it. Now the bit where I'm making into something silly and "High school anime" style, sure, that's not canon, but what do you expect?

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:02 am

conceivably you could shop you 40k based games to GW and possibly make some decent money, but there's also the possibility that they'll tell you to basically make it suck/outright steal the idea.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:13 am

They are actively hostile to their fanbase and basically try to never listen to fans if it isn't "Here is this thing I spent thousands of dollars on and painted" (in which case it'll feature in a web article to encourage other people to spend thousands of dollars on things).

Saying "Here's an idea for a game", even without saying "And it's actually enjoyable, unlike your piece of shit" might get a response of "We're not interested. You should just play Dark Heresy instead, or consider looking at our Specialist Games range, where you can play Inquisitor still!"

In all likelihood, there will just be no response.

Mask_De_H · Post by **Mask_De_H** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:41 am

If it's quirky or interesting enough, Koumei, people will play it. You might as well file the serial numbers off like Frank did with aWoD/After Sunset or Shadowrun/Asymmetric Threat.

Crossing Battle Royale with Real Bout High School/Medaka Box/whatever and adding your own touch will probably get you as far as a game based on 40K fluff when the company hates fan designer's guts and the average player only cares about SPESS MEHRINES and /tg/ memes.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:08 am

Yeah, if you get something functional, even if it's only about 50 pages, and can set up good fluff, you might as well try to get people to buy it, even if only in small numbers.