"Bioware Neglected Their Main Demographic:The Straight Male"

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What is your gender and orientation?

Straight Male
62
75%
Bisexual Male
12
14%
Gay Male
1
1%
Straight Female
2
2%
Bisexual Female
1
1%
Gay Female
3
4%
Transgender
2
2%
 
Total votes: 83

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tzor
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Post by tzor »

Prak_Anima wrote:
Orion wrote:I dunno. Orgasm, for instance, happens basically every time for almost all men and most women, if you do it right. Children? happen very occasionally. Remind me which one is the primary purpose?
Actually, most women don't experience orgasm from penetration, and most people don't really know this.
Most people don't really know the details of the female anatomy; heck, most doctors don't really know because a lot of the details is glossed over in anatomy class. The uthera and vagina need to be considered as a single unit (sort of like those old vacumm cleaners with the electronic brushes where the vacumm hose had a electric cord on top of it). Nerves are located around the uthera, the same place as is located the glands that normally form the prostrate gland in the male.

Add to that the effect of stimulation of the glans clitoris and the current state of all voluntary and involutary muscles at any given point in time and ...
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Post by Prak »

FrankTrollman wrote:As is often true, SMBC has the best answer. As for sex's "purpose", that's a stupid argument. Sex has no purpose. The reason that sex happens is because it more rapidly and efficiently reassembles genetic material than the prior and more strictly energetically efficient system of clonal division. That gives sexual creatures an advantage in their ability to obtain and preserve resistance traits and gives the species a selective advantage.

But even that is not sex's purpose. That's just the explanation for why sex exists. An explanation is not a purpose. Water flows down hill because of gravity. But it is not "for" gravity. That's not water's purpose. Water wasn't designed to fill a vital hill-flowing niche, it's just fucking water. And sex is just fucking sex.

Sex isn't for procreation. It's not even good at procreation. If we wanted to be good at procreation, we'd have old people explode into babies when their time came. Sex is around because it's good at genetic re-assortment. Which is actually the whole other end of the scale from systems that are even halfway good at replicating the creature doing it. For fuck's sake, when you reproduce sexually, the offspring is less than half you direct genetic copy. You contribute half the genes, and there's mutation. Cloning is better than 99% reproduction and less work. And we don't do that, because reproduction is stupid.

-Username17
Fair enough, I recant my earlier statements. Sex simply is.
tzor wrote:
Prak_Anima wrote:
Orion wrote:I dunno. Orgasm, for instance, happens basically every time for almost all men and most women, if you do it right. Children? happen very occasionally. Remind me which one is the primary purpose?
Actually, most women don't experience orgasm from penetration, and most people don't really know this.
Most people don't really know the details of the female anatomy; heck, most doctors don't really know because a lot of the details is glossed over in anatomy class. The uthera and vagina need to be considered as a single unit (sort of like those old vacumm cleaners with the electronic brushes where the vacumm hose had a electric cord on top of it). Nerves are located around the uthera, the same place as is located the glands that normally form the prostrate gland in the male.

Add to that the effect of stimulation of the glans clitoris and the current state of all voluntary and involutary muscles at any given point in time and ...
...you....you just likened the female reproductive system to an old vacuum... I don't know whether to facepalm or start looking for attachments...
Last edited by Prak on Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Post by PoliteNewb »

Count Arioch the 28th wrote:
Prak_Anima wrote:
Orion wrote:I dunno. Orgasm, for instance, happens basically every time for almost all men and most women, if you do it right. Children? happen very occasionally. Remind me which one is the primary purpose?
Actually, most women don't experience orgasm from penetration, and most people don't really know this.
That does not jive up with personal experience. Granted, my testing process was far from scientifically rigorous, but I have a 100% rate of women achieving orgasm from penetration, and a nonzero number of women that only had an orgasm from penetration.
While I don't know your sample size, either a.) you have been extremely lucky in sexual partners, b.) you are some kind of penis-god, or c.) some of your partners have faked sometimes. C is the most likely, and it's far from a rare occurrence.
I am judging the philosophies and decisions you have presented in this thread. The ones I have seen look bad, and also appear to be the fruit of a poisonous tree that has produced only madness and will continue to produce only madness.

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Post by Almaz »

PoliteNewb wrote:
Count Arioch the 28th wrote:
Prak_Anima wrote:Actually, most women don't experience orgasm from penetration, and most people don't really know this.
That does not jive up with personal experience. Granted, my testing process was far from scientifically rigorous, but I have a 100% rate of women achieving orgasm from penetration, and a nonzero number of women that only had an orgasm from penetration.
While I don't know your sample size, either a.) you have been extremely lucky in sexual partners, b.) you are some kind of penis-god, or c.) some of your partners have faked sometimes. C is the most likely, and it's far from a rare occurrence.
Judging by personal experience, men not being able to bring their partners to orgasm with penetration is simply a lack of experience, or simply random chance... it's very hard to get me off, for instance, but that applies to ANY stimulation whatsoever. But if it's going to happen, penetration can do it just fine.

Of course, it depends on how you define orgasm. If you mean direct, clitoral orgasm, then fuck no. If you accept orgasm from g-spot stimulation, however, which ties into the entire neural complex down there, then yes. The penis does it. Personally, I do.
Last edited by Almaz on Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Prak »

Almaz wrote:
PoliteNewb wrote:
Count Arioch the 28th wrote:
That does not jive up with personal experience. Granted, my testing process was far from scientifically rigorous, but I have a 100% rate of women achieving orgasm from penetration, and a nonzero number of women that only had an orgasm from penetration.
While I don't know your sample size, either a.) you have been extremely lucky in sexual partners, b.) you are some kind of penis-god, or c.) some of your partners have faked sometimes. C is the most likely, and it's far from a rare occurrence.
Judging by personal experience, men not being able to bring their partners to orgasm with penetration is simply a lack of experience, or simply random chance... it's very hard to get me off, for instance, but that applies to ANY stimulation whatsoever. But if it's going to happen, penetration can do it just fine.

Of course, it depends on how you define orgasm. If you mean direct, clitoral orgasm, then fuck no. If you accept orgasm from g-spot stimulation, however, which ties into the entire neural complex down there, then yes. The penis does it. Personally, I do.
neh, all I know is that the text book says 70% can't orgasm from just penetration (meaning stimulating the clitoris in no way whatsoever), and that of my sample size, A couldn't orgasm except from clitoral stim until years after I fucked her, B could usually orgasm from penetration, but sometimes it just wasn't happening (and it was probably my fault on those occasions) and C had a cock.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Post by Kaelik »

Penetration should stimulate the clitoris. Not as much as direct stimulation, but if you are doing it right, it should.
DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
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Post by Orion »

Everyone is assuming I'm talking about coitus. I said "sex."
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Post by Kaelik »

Orion wrote:Everyone is assuming I'm talking about coitus. I said "sex."
Technically, you didn't say the word sex. But you are correct in that the topic of discussion was sex when you made your comment about orgasms. So Prak should is 100% wrong.
DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.

That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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Post by Prak »

Kaelik wrote:
Orion wrote:Everyone is assuming I'm talking about coitus. I said "sex."
Technically, you didn't say the word sex. But you are correct in that the topic of discussion was sex when you made your comment about orgasms. So Prak should is 100% wrong.
Ok, yes, I seem to have fallacied all over the last couple of pages, forgive me.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Post by Psychic Robot »

The dumbest part of all of this is that the Bioware developer started whining about white, heterosexual privilege.
Count Arioch wrote:I'm not sure how discussions on whether PR is a terrible person or not is on-topic.
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Chamomile wrote:Ant, what do we do about Psychic Robot?
You do not seem to do anything.
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Post by Gnosticism Is A Hoot »

Psychic Robot wrote:The dumbest part of all of this is that the Bioware developer started whining about white, heterosexual privilege.
Yes, I knew this thread was missing something. It isn't a good TGD flamewar without some PR trollin'.
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Post by Psychic Robot »

How the hell is that trolling.
Count Arioch wrote:I'm not sure how discussions on whether PR is a terrible person or not is on-topic.
Ant wrote:
Chamomile wrote:Ant, what do we do about Psychic Robot?
You do not seem to do anything.
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Post by Prak »

Psychic Robot wrote:How the hell is that trolling.
How the hell is this a flame war?
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Post by Gnosticism Is A Hoot »

Prak_Anima wrote:
Psychic Robot wrote:How the hell is that trolling.
How the hell is this a flame war?
I'm used to posting on rpg.net, where you can be as passive-aggressive as you like, but any hint of directness counts as flaming. TGD seems to work the other way around, which is rather refreshing.
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Post by Vnonymous »

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the ... the-eye-th
In the most recent version of this experiment, newborn babies less than one week old show significantly greater preference for faces that adults judge to be attractive. Another study shows that 12-month-old infants exhibit more observable pleasure, more play involvement, less distress, and less withdrawal when interacting with strangers wearing attractive masks than when interacting with strangers wearing unattractive masks. They also play significantly longer with facially attractive dolls than with facially unattractive dolls. The findings of these studies are consistent with the personal experiences and observations of many parents of small children, who find that their children are much better behaved when their babysitters are physically attractive than when they are not.

Even the most ardent proponents of the traditional view that “beauty is in the eye of the beholder” must admit that one week (or even a few months) is not nearly enough time for infants to have learned and internalized the (supposedly arbitrary) cultural standards of beauty through socialization and media exposure. These studies instead strongly suggest that the broad standards of beauty might be innate, not learned or acquired through socialization. The balance of evidence indicates that beauty is decidedly not in the eye of the beholder, but might instead be part of universal human nature.
Damn man, those social constructs work FAST! Do they start working when the baby is in the womb? Maybe uteruses these days have tvs in them showing popular western TV, which let the patriarchal messages sink in before the child is even born.

As for the media thinking that Marilyn Monroe is fat...

http://www.topnews.in/light/files/marilyn-monroe5.jpg

http://www.gallerym.com/images/work/big ... itch_L.jpg

Are you high? There is no fucking way that woman would be described as "fat". I'm not American so I don't really know who she is beyond that Kennedy/Lincoln joke everyone's heard of, but saying that the media would call her fat is insane. I still find her attractive, and I even find that women famed for their beauty in foreign cultures are attractive as well - If you look up SNSD, you'll see some incredibly attractive women, considered attractive in non western culture as well.

Also, pre-emptively:
For any given scientific generalization, it is always easy to recall an anecdote or example that is contrary to the general pattern, such as “I know a man who...” or “I know a woman who....” As I explain in an earlier post, science is empirical, not logical, which is why there is no such thing as a scientific proof. The existence of exceptions and counterexamples, which invalidate mathematical proofs, do not invalidate scientific conclusions and empirical generalizations. You may know a man who finds elderly, obese women sexually attractive, but that does not invalidate the conclusion that men in general find young women with low waist-to-hip ratios sexually attractive.
Last edited by Vnonymous on Sat Apr 09, 2011 10:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Kaelik »

Vynomous, no one is objecting to your stupid statements based on a single counter example. People object based on the fact that you make stupid statements, with no backing, and then you just claim that is what "people" like.

You are also just an anecdote. And you plus some guys who told you about what they think is still just anecdotes.

Take for example, your baby thing. No one on TGD other than Crissa is a hordcore postmodernist feminist. There are things that make some people more attractive than others. Face symmetry is the key to facial attractiveness.

You have presented an argument that small children treat people with certain faces as more attractive. No one disagrees.

But when you extrapolate that to: And therefore, all fat people are ugly, where fat is "weighs more than 100lbs" and "Also, it is generally true that people find virginity attractive" and "also, naive submission is more attractive" that you go off the deep end.

You don't have any studies for those claims, just your own anecdotes. But those are the claims people are objecting to.
DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.

That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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Post by Vnonymous »

Point out to me where I have said that all fat people are ugly, where fat is weighs more than 100lbs. I didn't actually say that, because it'd be dumb. "healthy weight" is more of a voodoo number than anything, because its' different for every person. As for anecdotes, most of the articles I'm reading are based off of strict scientific studies in published journals. Obesity is unattractive, and nobody considered famous for their beauty is obese.

As for virginity, it being prized in women is a universal accross every culture. Can you seriously point to a culture where, when it comes to marriage, people don't expect/want a virginal bride? Frequency of past sexual encounters is definitely a factor that comes into play when making relationship decisions. Even today there's stuff like the rule of 3 and every single shitty romantic comedy ever where they talk about women's past sexual histories. Slut shaming is something that happens everywhere, all the time, including today.

The confusion arises when you're evaluating a woman solely on the basis of a singular sexual encounter(where it doesn't matter) vs getting into a relationship with said woman. The madonna/whore dichotomy isn't something the Church came up with - men use that information every day when deciding whether or not to get into a relationship with a woman.
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Post by PhoneLobster »

Vnonymous wrote: Can you seriously point to a culture where, when it comes to marriage, people don't expect/want a virginal bride?
This one. The "modern western society". The one we are a part of.

Marrying as virgins in modern western society makes you some sort of fundamentalist weirdo instead of a normal person.

I have no part in the rest of this debate, but I DO so like to point out hilarious oversights of the absolutely ridiculously obvious.
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Post by Vnonymous »

PhoneLobster wrote:
Vnonymous wrote: Can you seriously point to a culture where, when it comes to marriage, people don't expect/want a virginal bride?
This one. The "modern western society". The one we are a part of.

Marrying as virgins in modern western society makes you some sort of fundamentalist weirdo instead of a normal person.

I have no part in the rest of this debate, but I DO so like to point out hilarious oversights of the absolutely ridiculously obvious.
Are you seriously going to suggest that men do not take the sexual history of women they are planning on marrying into account when making that decision?

That men are just as happy marrying old prostitutes as they are marrying 20 year old girls who've had one boyfriend before them?

Guys care about that sort of stuff in modern society too. Not to the extent of ensuring virginity, but you can bet that guys take that into account.
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Post by Gnosticism Is A Hoot »

Vnonymous wrote:
PhoneLobster wrote:
Vnonymous wrote: Can you seriously point to a culture where, when it comes to marriage, people don't expect/want a virginal bride?
This one. The "modern western society". The one we are a part of.

Marrying as virgins in modern western society makes you some sort of fundamentalist weirdo instead of a normal person.

I have no part in the rest of this debate, but I DO so like to point out hilarious oversights of the absolutely ridiculously obvious.
Are you seriously going to suggest that men do not take the sexual history of women they are planning on marrying into account when making that decision?

That men are just as happy marrying old prostitutes as they are marrying 20 year old girls who've had one boyfriend before them?

Guys care about that sort of stuff in modern society too. Not to the extent of ensuring virginity, but you can bet that guys take that into account.
Your claims keep changing.

First it's EVERYONE LOVES VIRGINS

Then it's SOCIETY HAS NO EFFECT ON GENDER ROLES

Now it's THEIR PARTNER'S SEXUAL HISTORY IS ONE OF THE THINGS PEOPLE OFTEN CARE ABOUT WHEN ENTERING LIFELONG COMMITMENTS

You've gone from 'bizarrely anachronistic' to 'highly dubious' to 'basically non-controversial'. Well done.
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Post by Vnonymous »

If you can't see the connection between the general statement that men prefer virgins when marrying and men preferring not to get into relationships with women with high notch counts then I have no fucking idea what your deal is.

Society not having an effect on gender roles is an aside that doesn't come close to changing the original claim, either. While certain environments and times can (women will take to the battlefield in desperate times/onnabugeisha etc), society does not.
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Post by Orion »

Actually, I suspect that the optimally attractive number of past relationships is something like 3, with attractive going down as one moves away from it in either direction.
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Post by Vnonymous »

If you are a guy, you can actually test this for yourself. Just imagine your partner having hot, messy sex with another man, back when she was a bit younger. If this feels good to you, then congratulations, you are not anywhere near the average man. There's nothing wrong with 3 past partners, but having dated a virgin I can say that attractiveness doesn't really go down as that number goes down.

The same effect doesn't really apply to women though. A high number of past partners is a positive thing in a partner for women. Even Seinfeld picked up on it. The reasons why men and women have these differing approaches to mating is fairly obvious if you think about it for a bit(or read one of the many scientific studies on the subject).
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Post by Gnosticism Is A Hoot »

Vnonymous wrote:If you can't see the connection between the general statement that men prefer virgins when marrying and men preferring not to get into relationships with women with high notch counts then I have no fucking idea what your deal is.
One is a much stronger claim than the other. In mainstream British youth culture, a 'high' notch count probably would be less desirable in a wife, but - get this - so would virginity. I'm not sure where the ideal midpoint is, but that's probably a question for a statistician or a sociologist to answer.

Society not having an effect on gender roles is an aside that doesn't come close to changing the original claim, either. While certain environments and times can (women will take to the battlefield in desperate times/onnabugeisha etc), society does not.
Did you even read Frank's post about culture-specific standards of beauty? Are you claiming that different cultures do not have different norms about virginity? Different cultures value virginity and sexual experience to different extents. Why? Because social norms affect gender roles. Different societies proscribe different roles for men and women. Why? Because social norms affect gender roles. There are similarities, of course - very, very few feminists claim that genetics have *no* influence on gendered behaviour - but 'society doesn't have any effect on gender roles' goes so far beyond that reasonable position that I'm not even sure what to say.

EDIT: And with that, I'm out. I'm happy with my position as expressed in my post on page 4, and I don't see this discussion going anywhere.
Last edited by Gnosticism Is A Hoot on Sat Apr 09, 2011 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Psychic Robot »

I'm used to posting on rpg.net, where you can be as passive-aggressive as you like, but any hint of directness counts as flaming. TGD seems to work the other way around, which is rather refreshing.
RPG.net is cancer and should be purged. All glory to TGD.
Count Arioch wrote:I'm not sure how discussions on whether PR is a terrible person or not is on-topic.
Ant wrote:
Chamomile wrote:Ant, what do we do about Psychic Robot?
You do not seem to do anything.
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