How do I get some hot Solar-on-Sidereal Martial Arts action?

[Lago_AM3P]

Because Terrestrial/Celestial MA sucks so horribly compared to melee, it seems the only way to be a competent MA in Exalted is to take up SMA. I mean, Sidereals probably have the worst physical chassis of all of the celestial exalts, imagine what SMA could do on a Solar!

...except that from previews of Scroll of the Monk I'm seeing, while it's game mechanically possible for Solars to gain them, the setting seems to rub it in your FACE that you're never going to get them. Even the Gold Faction Sids are reluctant to teach Solars SMA and there is NO FREAKING WAY to learn SMA without a Sidereal sifu. So suffer with your inferior CMA! Don't you wish you picked up a daiklave?

Anyone have any ideas how I can gain SMA with as little GM intervention as possible? I'm dying here.

[Imban]

This is Exalted.

1) Find a Gold Faction Sidereal who A) knows Sidereal Martial Arts and B) is a hot girl.
2) Lay her.
3) Ask her to teach you SMA.
4) Profit.

[TavishArtair]

Also note that you can take a Gold Faction Sidereal who likes you enough to teach you all the arcane crap about the world as a Mentor, given sufficient (but available) points. Presumably, you have already Done Her.

[Lago_AM3P]

1) Find a Gold Faction Sidereal who A) knows Sidereal Martial Arts and B) is a hot girl.
2) Lay her.
3) Ask her to teach you SMA.
4) Profit.

Also note that you can take a Gold Faction Sidereal who likes you enough to teach you all the arcane crap about the world as a Mentor, given sufficient (but available) points. Presumably, you have already Done Her.

Why does everyone always assume that I play nothing but male characters!

Oh, oh yeah. The... the constant penis jokes.

Look, just because I make them doesn't mean that my 'female' characters are... you know... sometimes a man needs to feel pretty... DON'T JUDGE ME.


..............................

FrankTrollman gave me similar advice way back when when Exalted the First was becoming bloated with books and crap. However, some people on an Exalted board I lurk at said that even Gold Faction Sids will not teach Solars SMA, remembering their hubris from the past.

But I'll be buying Scroll of the Monk from drivethrurpg.com like, RIGHT NOW. And I'll look for the relevant passage. And if it exists, I'll post it and ask this question again. The things I do for you earholes...

And if it doesn't, how many dots in mentor should do the trick?

[Imban]

You know, playing a female just makes it easier, since then you can take on the seductress role. Just replace 1B with "is a hot guy" and 2 with "lure him into bed"...

EDIT: It says the Gold Faction doesn't as a matter of course, but this is Exalted, where you're pretty much allowed to break the rules. Especially if you're in bed with them and they're not really teaching a solar so much as their girlfriend.

[Lago_AM3P]

Imban, you seem to be more or less familiar with this game.

I'm thinking about making a martial artist (not necessarily Exalted), except that even after all these months I still don't have a grasp on what's (obscenely) powerful or not.

I'm about to crack open Scroll of the Monk for some expansionist options after I wake up from my nap, but how does this seem, so far, for a character?

Basic idea, put almost all of the dots in physical->intellectual->social. Charms: Terrestrial Sorcery, Summon Elemental, Wood Dragon Claw, Invulnerable Skin of Bronze, First Martial Arts Excellency, Infinite Martial Arts Mastery, Dipping Swallow Defense, Bulkwark Stance, Solar Counterattack, and Heavenly Guardian Defense.

Bonus points go into increasing essence and the extra one goes towards increasing melee to a rating of 4. Background points are for a little bit of resources (2 dots) and for some artifacts: jade bracers, orichalcum razor claws (to stack with wood dragon claw--if not, ditch 'em) and a yasal crystal.

Also, if you did somehow had unlimited access to SMA (NOT DISCUSSING HOW), how would you approach actually learning them and secondary charm advancement, from a 2nd Ed starting Solar perspective?

[Imban]

Sadly, Lago, it's "less", when it comes down to it. I've read a good deal of the books for the fluff, but never got a chance to play it myself. Sorry.

[PhoneLobster]

Shouldn't a title like this thread's be having the spam bots beating the doors down any second?

[shau]

1) Find a Gold Faction Sidereal who A) knows Sidereal Martial Arts and B) is a hot girl.

If your just jumping in the sack with someone to learn their awesome martial arts skillz, wouldn't it better to look for an ugly chick? I mean, if she's hideous she would be so glad for the attention that she would teach you anything you want to know. I mean, I'm a hidoeous man and if some hot chick started coming on to me I'd gladly teach her all of my secrets.

Probably shouldn't have shared the fact that I am a hideous man.

[SirWayne]

Lies. There are no ugly women in RPGs, console or table-top.

Anyway, I don't know much about Exalted, but it seems like you could go another step further and have broken up with the hot Sidereal who taught you martial arts. That makes you happy-- you've got the skillz-- and it makes your GM happy, since they have a fun "My Exalted Ex-Girlfriend" plot hook to run with, that incidentally works out nicely for you since Solars are better than Sidereals in the first place. It's like having the "Gets Attacked By Ninjas" "flaw," since it gets you into combat (which is good) with people who aren't really a threat to you (even better).

[Imban]

I'd be a bit afraid of saying that one, SirWayne. Sidereals are probably the only caste of Exalt that stands a high chance of beating the ever-loving stuffing out of you in a 1-on-1 duel.

[SirWayne]

Oh, really? I was basing that quip off of Lago's line here:

I mean, Sidereals probably have the worst physical chassis of all of the celestial exalts,

not out of any professional opinion. I've been curious about Exalted, but never really had a chance to play it (nobody out here does).

If Sidereals are a real threat, then so much the better-- combats are more interesting when they're fair fights anyway. Especially since you get some humor out of it, like an angry ex-father in law or something. :]

[Count Arioch the 28th]

1166483619[/unixtime]]Lies. There are no ugly women in RPGs, console or table-top.

[SirWayne]

...I am man enough to admit defeat.

...and cry. :'(

[MrWaeseL]

1166487266[/unixtime]]

1166483619[/unixtime]]Lies. There are no ugly women in RPGs, console or table-top.

[img]

That's a man.

[Lago_AM3P]

We're not talking about D&D, which was never a particularly sexy game nor would know sexy even if Lloth mandated a 'bottoms only' policy for all of her drow priestesses.

We're talking about EXALTED. Exalted is a SEXY game. Look at Harmonius Jade's luscious rump or how you can see a barely hidden nipple on that Abyssial dominatrix on page 32 or those Neomahs, who are like succubuses only they don't tear out your immortal soul. Remember, the Dynasts are known for their orgies and even the Scarlet Empress had her own harem of lesbian love slaves.

Don't even try to compare Exalted's slick, trophy wife sexiness to D&D's matronly, horny, sagging, fat, wrinkly, leprosy-inflicted...

I digress. Since you guys MADE ME purchase Scroll of the Monk, I guess I'll review a few styles before this thread gets gets locked for irrevelancy or some shit.

... you know, after I finish my review of styles for Book of Nine Swords... and the AdC for d20 Modern... and the feats for PHB II....

[PhoneLobster]

That's a man.

Correction, thats not a woman.

[Lago_AM3P]

Okay, I got one.

The Quicksilver Hands of Dreams style is unique among all of the SMA is that is occurs out of the hands of the Sidereals. You're taught to it in dreams--some conspiracy theories in the book say that it might even come from Outer Chaos. Whatever.

Anyway, you learn this SMA. Then you beat the crap out of your mentor using this style and demand to learn some new things. So then you start practicing the SMA you really want (Obsidian Shards) in your sleep. Awesome.

[erik]

1166499437[/unixtime]]

That's a man.

Correction, thats not a woman.

Makes me wonder if Mialee was the inspiration for Vaarsuvius

[Lago_AM3P]

Anyway, reading through this book some more.

Wow, Obsidian Shards of Infinity is so freakin' overpowered that I wouldn't want to pick it up even if I was offered it.

Quicksilver Hands of Dreams form charm is completely out of control. You always gain at least one success on any activity you do, no matter what the external penalties are. This includes hitting and dodging. Holy moley. However, named characters can also reject your influence. Whatever. And you become almost virtually undetectable in combat. Plus, you gain access to the only raise dead effect in the game.

But the style's best benefit is that it automatically provides you with a sifu who can train you in what you want once you learn the four charms. That means you'll probably learn the other SMA in time. Awesome possum.

[TavishArtair]

1166479992[/unixtime]]
I'm thinking about making a martial artist (not necessarily Exalted), except that even after all these months I still don't have a grasp on what's (obscenely) powerful or not.

<snip>

Basic idea, put almost all of the dots in physical->intellectual->social. Charms: Terrestrial Sorcery, Summon Elemental, Wood Dragon Claw, Invulnerable Skin of Bronze, First Martial Arts Excellency, Infinite Martial Arts Mastery, Dipping Swallow Defense, Bulkwark Stance, Solar Counterattack, and Heavenly Guardian Defense.

Bonus points go into increasing essence and the extra one goes towards increasing melee to a rating of 4. Background points are for a little bit of resources (2 dots) and for some artifacts: jade bracers, orichalcum razor claws (to stack with wood dragon claw--if not, ditch 'em) and a yasal crystal.

Also, if you did somehow had unlimited access to SMA (NOT DISCUSSING HOW), how would you approach actually learning them and secondary charm advancement, from a 2nd Ed starting Solar perspective?

I actually DO know a lot about Exalted. And Mentor 5 should be enough in any case, if you don't do the Quicksilver Hands of Dreams thing.

Okay, first problem, is you're taking Summon Elemental. Why this, and not Summon Demon? Demons work for free, Elementals might actually get pissed at you and call their boss on you, and whereas if a demon boss gets called on you he can't do anything because he's in Malfeas, an Elemental might actually attract the attention of a censor if sufficiently maltreated. Check out Fakharu's stats. You don't want to just casually pick fights with him. And you can just abuse a demon all you like, they are at your beck and call and back in their bottle afterwards. Yes, the good guys also use demons. A lot.

Second, Wood Dragon's Claw will not stack with armament like razor claws.

Third, you haven't outlined your actual fighting style, but if you plan on using Martial Arts as your primary attack, putting more than basic points in Melee is a waste of time. You should be looking to Dodge for your perfect defense, et alia. Yes, you lose Solar Counterattack but it's not that hot anyways when you don't have a combo, and you can find counterattacks in MA.

Fourth, you appear to be ignoring the possibility of Resistance Charms to increase your soak and relying on Sorcery instead. Sorcery is slow, and imperfect, and it will not advance as well with you, although demons are always useful. Resistance will provide a lot more that you need, and no Ox-Body (take the -1, -2, -2 version!) or resistance to general nastiness is a bad place to be. You shouldn't have to perfectly dodge everything.

Also, as far as learning Sidereal MA goes, you need to learn a lot of other Charms first. If you want the Form, which is where it's at, you need to learn an entire complete Celestial Martial Art. So pick one of those, and start building on those Charms. Only after you have enough to approach the Form should you go more than a charm or two into Sidereal Martial Arts, really.

Your character seems narrowed into a very few high-tier tricks, with no flexibility, which is unbecoming of an Exalt. Really. Certain opponents require an Exalt's flexibility to win. You aren't going to out-fight the God of Battle, because he, well, is Battle. You need to have Other Tricks to overcome him, which is related to my next issue.

I don't know the rest of your build, but if your Charms indicate anything, you have no Athletics ability, or Ride, or even a Sorcery to move around, although I guess you could summon a demon (note: Elementals will begrudge carrying your palanquin, Demons begrudge it but don't matter because they'll return to Malfeas). You are going to find yourself sucking hardcore when you find yourself in a scene which encourages people to jump around or chase really fast or... yeah. Which is to say, all of them. Fighters don't just stand there and wail on each other in Exalted: you're in a wuxia anime Greek epic, take advantage of it and get your sandaled feet moving somehow.

[Lago_AM3P]

I wanted to pick an elemental because I could find NO OTHER creature in the basic book that let me fly. Though, for the reasons you outlined above, if you could tell me of a demon that allows me to fly then I will gladly ditch the spell.

Comment about wood dragon claw/razor claw noted.

Is there any particular reason why I wouldn't suck up the mote cost and double up on jade crap?

Third, you haven't outlined your actual fighting style, but if you plan on using Martial Arts as your primary attack, putting more than basic points in Melee is a waste of time. You should be looking to Dodge for your perfect defense, et alia. Yes, you lose Solar Counterattack but it's not that hot anyways when you don't have a combo, and you can find counterattacks in MA.

Yeah, that's why I wanted to invest in Melee, for the cheap perfect defense. Also because I can't find non-terrestrial Martial Arts charms that negate onslaught and flurry penalties and the dodge one costs willpower. I'm really concerned about having enough willpower--I'm willing to stunt all of my attacks but I don't want to be caught with my pants down without any willpower.

I also /really/ wanted to pick up Body Mending Meditation, Integrity-Protection Prana, and Immunity to Everything Technique.

I intentiionally didn't pick up health levels, though. I'm worried oftentimes that if someone hits you, you're going down....


For a fighting style... heh. I was originally going to pick a style with the fewest amount of charms, unfortunately, I can't find any CMA with less than 9 charms in it. I was thinking the Snake style since it adds a huge amount of defense at the cost of being somewhat difficult to charge up on the fly (needs two charms that can't be comboed, though Snake Form is pretty fuggin' fast).

Though I can also be convinced to take up a Virtue Style CMA. But the SMA thing? It's going to happen somehow. All I can do is be led towards a certain style. Though I'm probably going to still have to spring for Quicksilver Hand of Dreams--that form charm is badass beyond all belief.

Though I was also thinking that since QHoD has two low-level instant-kill-if-you-can't-defend-against-this charms, is investing in pure damage martial art charms necessary?


I can't tell you how happy I am that I'm getting some help here. I'm getting that same giddy feeling I got when I read Frank's 'Why Monks?' post from long ago.

[TavishArtair]

1166592476[/unixtime]]I wanted to pick an elemental because I could find NO OTHER creature in the basic book that let me fly. Though, for the reasons you outlined above, if you could tell me of a demon that allows me to fly then I will gladly ditch the spell.

Is there any particular reason why I wouldn't suck up the mote cost and double up on jade crap?

Yeah, that's why I wanted to invest in Melee, for the cheap perfect defense. Also because I can't find non-terrestrial Martial Arts charms that negate onslaught and flurry penalties and the dodge one costs willpower. I'm really concerned about having enough willpower--I'm willing to stunt all of my attacks but I don't want to be caught with my pants down without any willpower.

I also /really/ wanted to pick up Body Mending Meditation, Integrity-Protection Prana, and Immunity to Everything Technique.

I intentiionally didn't pick up health levels, though. I'm worried oftentimes that if someone hits you, you're going down....

Though I was also thinking that since QHoD has two low-level instant-kill-if-you-can't-defend-against-this charms, is investing in pure damage martial art charms necessary?

No reason not to double up and eat the delicious jade goodness, really, except for things which orichalcum Does Better. However, you should check out Wonders of the Lost Age and the Fivefold Harmonic Adapters. They... reduce the cost of doubling up, significantly.

You're also going about it All Wrong if you want to avoid spending Willpower: you've got Sorcery(!), which has a habit of setting your Willpower on fire.

Wonders of the Lost Age should also provide you with what you need to get Up. You can take a Belt of Aerial Mobility and go skipping into the air. It takes Lore 3 and some Craft to keep it in good repairs, though, but you should probably be able to swing that. If all you want is that, it's better than summoning demons OR elementals.

Flow Like Blood is also scene length in duration, and, check it, negates coordinated attack penalties as well, which Fivefold Bulwark Stance doesn't do, and with Dodge, you don't even have to dip into Awareness to get good defense versus Surprise Ninjas, which, unsurprisingly(?), are common in Exalted. Also, Leaping Dodge Method should not be underestimated for its usefulness in terms of getting out of the way. Flurries and multiattacks are dangerous.

Also, could you cite the name of the "instant kill" Charms? Fervent Night Phantasm can be shaken with a single Willpower, and Peaceful Repose still allows them to spend Willpower to resist. Elusive Dream Defense and similar Charms aren't nonexistent, and there are some enemies who don't understand the meaning of sleep: indeed, even Dragon-Blooded can simply remain awake forever, and do ghosts really sleep and dream? Automata certainly don't, so it won't work against those kinds of enemies! So I would not recommend relying on those, because they are fundamentally flawed in some ways.

I would generally recommend you take something that does what Quicksilver Hands of Dreams does not do for you, if you use that. Even Tiger Style isn't out of the question.

[Lago_AM3P]

No reason not to double up and eat the delicious jade goodness, really, except for things which orichalcum Does Better. However, you should check out Wonders of the Lost Age and the Fivefold Harmonic Adapters. They... reduce the cost of doubling up, significantly.

Buying Wonders of the Age from drivethrurpg.com right now.

You're also going about it All Wrong if you want to avoid spending Willpower: you've got Sorcery(!), which has a habit of setting your Willpower on fire.

I know. That's why I wanted the willpower. Someone got me a copy of Savant and Sorcery or whatever the fuck it's called and while I don't know if a lot of the spells are still compatible with Exalted the Second, getting some of your gougies out of spellcasting seems reasonable. However, I'm not sure how long my character can last with two sources of willpower being sucked from me and we haven't gotten into any combos yet.

Wonders of the Lost Age should also provide you with what you need to get Up. You can take a Belt of Aerial Mobility and go skipping into the air. It takes Lore 3 and some Craft to keep it in good repairs, though, but you should probably be able to swing that. If all you want is that, it's better than summoning demons OR elementals.

Busily buying Wonders of the Lost Age RIGHT NOW, people!

I would generally recommend you take something that does what Quicksilver Hands of Dreams does not do for you, if you use that. Even Tiger Style isn't out of the question.

I'm looking for something that's higher on ass-whupping then survivability and relatively easy on the motage. What do you recommend?

[Lago_AM3P]

No reason not to double up and eat the delicious jade goodness, really, except for things which orichalcum Does Better. However, you should check out Wonders of the Lost Age and the Fivefold Harmonic Adapters. They... reduce the cost of doubling up, significantly.

Buying Wonders of the Age from drivethrurpg.com right now.

You're also going about it All Wrong if you want to avoid spending Willpower: you've got Sorcery(!), which has a habit of setting your Willpower on fire.

I know. That's why I wanted the willpower. Someone got me a copy of Savant and Sorcery or whatever the fuck it's called and while I don't know if a lot of the spells are still compatible with Exalted the Second, getting some of your gougies out of spellcasting seems reasonable. However, I'm not sure how long my character can last with two sources of willpower being sucked from me and we haven't gotten into any combos yet.

Wonders of the Lost Age should also provide you with what you need to get Up. You can take a Belt of Aerial Mobility and go skipping into the air. It takes Lore 3 and some Craft to keep it in good repairs, though, but you should probably be able to swing that. If all you want is that, it's better than summoning demons OR elementals.

Busily buying Wonders of the Lost Age RIGHT NOW, people!

I would generally recommend you take something that does what Quicksilver Hands of Dreams does not do for you, if you use that. Even Tiger Style isn't out of the question.

I'm looking for something that's higher on ass-whupping then survivability and relatively easy on the motage. What do you recommend?