Pirate's Quarter: OGL Horror

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Captain_Bleach
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Pirate's Quarter: OGL Horror

Post by Captain_Bleach »

Somebody whose name I forgot said that I contribute nothing to this board, so in a vain attempt to prove him/her wrong and to stroke my own ego, I will be reviewing some game products that I own, instead of asking your opinion of it.
My first review is of Mongoose Publishing's OGL Horror.

Image
Alright, let's get to it;
Chapter 1 is Horror Roleplaying and the basics of d20. Okay, we get it, all you guys know how to roleplay, we know the six ability scores, let's just skip it and get to character creation.
Chapter 2 is character creation, and borrows heavily from d20 Modern. Now, if your game involves a high body count, then you will be displeased, as it is just as long to create a character in this as d20 modern is. Okay, so the first thing to do is choose your occupation, all of which are from the MSRD, except that they offer lower wealth bonuses, and some give you reputation bonuses that didn't in the MSRD, like Law Enforcement. Then, for rolling ability scores, you either do 4d6 and drop the lowest, or you use a 25 point buy.
Next part is the character classes. Instead of copying, Mongoose decided to be original and make up their own classes: Combatant, Scholar, Investigator, and Ordinary Person. The maximum level in this game is 10, but unless you are running a long game, do not expect to hit that point anytime soon: you gain 500-800 experience points every game session, and everybody starts out at level 3.
No special class features, just a list of bonus feats, 1 per level for each class, except for level 4 and 8, where you don't get any bonus feats. The exception is the Ordinary person, who gets 2 bonus feats at level 3. Overall, the classes don't get anything that really stand out, unless you're a Scholar, who has no rank caps for Intelligence-based skills, or Ordinary People are less likely to develop mental disorders for no real reason.
In addition, all characters start with Ties. Your Ties are your bonds to something or someone. If you lose all your Ties, you become an incurable sociopath, you know, instead of trying to find something else to cope with or something else to live for. The only good side is that if your Tie is in danger you get a +1d10 bonus on attack rolls, saves, and skills made in order to help get said Tie out of danger. Numerical bonuses, or risk becoming a psycho who cannot empathize with his fellow human? I think the answer of whether or not it's a good mechanic is obvious.
Also, characters are a lot more destitute in OGL Horror; Wealth is generated the same way in d20 Modern except that you don't roll 2d4 and add to your Wealth score. And the only occupation that gives +5 to Wealth is Dilettatnte, which gives the highest bonus to Wealth.
Skills are the same, and so are the feats, from d20 Modern, which means that Dodge still sucks. Some of the new feats are: three (Ignorant, Calm, and Fearless) that give bonuses to your Horror saves, and Windfall gives you +1 Wealth, making it even worse than Dodge unless your entire character concept is based around being rich. Also, there's just Light and Heavy armor, no medium. And nobody starts out with Weapon Proficiency, they have to be bought with feats. This looks all good compared to the feat, Loner, which makes you suffer no penalties on Horror checks for being alone or with one other person, but you lose two of your precious Ties! This should be a character option, not a feat! It penalizes a vital game mechanic, although you have nothing to worry about if your GM does not use Ties.
The really original stuff comes in Chapter 8, Fear and Loathing, which gives you Horror Saves. They are based off of your Will Save, and there are three kinds: Panic (for immediate physical danger), Fear (for creepy or disturbing situations that pose no immediate threat), and Madness (for Lovecraftian, belief-challenging goodness). It is both good and bad; it throws roleplaying out the window and makes game mechanics determine whether or not your character is scared. Two all classes but the Investigator get a -4 penalty on one type of Horror Save: Fear for Ordinaries, Panic for Combatants, and Madness for Scholars. However, Combatants, when put in the fight or flight response, always choose to fight. Well, you ARE a Combatant, so it is what you do best. Unfortunately, it makes the Investigator class look awesome compared to Ordinary and Scholar, where you have no penalty. The Scholar's special trait is that he has no maximum ranks in Intelligence-based skills. Hooray, you can be an awesome Scholar. Of course, Combatants and Scholars are good for only a certain type of horror gaming, but Investigators can do well in any arena. Unless you are playing a mindless slaughterfest, or the entire game session is full of library research and summoning rituals, play an Investigator. Whatever an Ordinary Person can do, another class can do better.
Oh, and Shock points. When you fail Horror Saves, you gain these points, which make you more likely to become chemically imbalanced; every point gives you a cumulative -1 penalty on Horror saves, making it easier and easier to go insane from the exact same event. Then, you buy off Shock points for mental illnesses. If you don't have enough points to purchase a mental illness, you take Wisdom damage. And the Ordinary Person's only redeeming feature, they lose two Shock Points when buying them off. Of course, you can't just buy off Shock Points whenever, it is either two weeks of downtime, when the adventure ends, or when you gain a level.
Then there are monsters, which can either make or break your party in combat.
Then, there are sections for magic systems:
There are Rituals, which are one-use, time-consuming plot devices. The only game mechanics needed are casting time and stuff to make the Ritual work. Oh, and you need to roll a Knowledge (Occult) check.
Then, there is Spellcasting, which is like standard d20 magic, but instead of Vancian, you take damage, ability score or hit points. Unless you restrict it to "vague, rarely-working divinations and rituals," expect to see a Wish Economy, but with ghouls and ghosts instead of dungeons and dragons.
Then, there is Psychic powers, which are like spell casting, but all the powers are feats, and it has less to do with blasting, and more to do with "psychic residue" and "sixth sense" stuff.
Then, there is Faith, were you roll a Wisdom or Charisma check to have something good happen, but it requires a feat.
Now you can pray the bad away! Obviously, not for all types of horror.

Final Score: Overall, for a d20 product, not bad, but not very good. Not worth the money, unless you get it for cheap. Has all the pitfalls and choices of crappy/good feats, but has some fresh ideas. It's major flaw is that it borrows too much from d20 Modern. 2 out of 5.
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Re: Pirate's Quarter: OGL Horror

Post by shau »

Huh, sounds like you can just make everyone in the party your ties, and throw down some serious whoopass whenever someone threatens your group.
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Re: Pirate's Quarter: OGL Horror

Post by Hey_I_Can_Chan »

There are Rituals, which are one-use, time-consuming plot devices. The only game mechanics needed are casting time and stuff to make the Ritual work. Oh, and you need to roll a Knowledge (Occult) check.


So with his uncapped Int-based Knowledge (occult), the scholar just pumps all his ranks into this skill and, what, Knowledge (book stores of the damned) or something, right?
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Re: Pirate's Quarter: OGL Horror

Post by Judging__Eagle »

Hmm, you're an intrepid... family of adventurers!

What could possibly be more tied to each other?

Also, when could having such an interesting RP dynamic be so mechanically powerful? I mean seriously... +1d10 to everything you do b/c your fellow PCs are in danger?

I want to run such a game now or play in one. Seriously.
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Re: Pirate's Quarter: OGL Horror

Post by Username17 »

I could actually see a system of madness where desensitization was the definition of insanity and thus the more you were exposed to the same thing the faster your insanity meter dropped. In short, as a normal person you're pretty horrified if people get torn in half in front of you and are nauseated by people getting eaten by worms. The idea of eating other people doesn't even enter into your day to day thoughts.

But if you ran around the ghoul barrows for a while, living day to day on the leavings of your hosts and the corpses of the fallen - it would eventually seem normal to you. And at that point you wouldn't be a normal person anymore. You'd be a full-time monster hunter and possibly you'd be better at that job. But hanging out in the mall or chatting up the lady behind the postal desk you just wouldn't fit in. Your experiences, your expectations of the world are so at odds with normality that if authority figures really sit down and have an honest discussion with you they'll try to get you committed to an institution.

But that's really not what people normally write when they write insanity rules. They write it as a sliding scale where the more zombies you see the more likely you will be to lose your cool when you see a zombie. And that's just stupid. I'd much rather see a system where it was a slippery slope and the more zombies you saw the harder it would be to keep your school talking to the PTA and the guy at the bakery.

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Re: Pirate's Quarter: OGL Horror

Post by Captain_Bleach »

Hey_I_Can_Chan at [unixtime wrote:1197546583[/unixtime]]
There are Rituals, which are one-use, time-consuming plot devices. The only game mechanics needed are casting time and stuff to make the Ritual work. Oh, and you need to roll a Knowledge (Occult) check.


So with his uncapped Int-based Knowledge (occult), the scholar just pumps all his ranks into this skill and, what, Knowledge (book stores of the damned) or something, right?


Yes. I forgot to say, it also applies to the Spellcasting system in addition to Rituals. The whole Knowledge (Occult) skill can be a real game-breaker in a game with spells. I forgot to notice that. Of course, if your GM does not tell you whether or not the game has spells, you either risk becoming a liability in a spell-less game when going against monsters, or you break OGL Horror with spells. Who cares if your character risks his mind, body, and soul? That shit happens in Horror games to everybody! Might as well get some power and prestige while you're at it.

Judging Eagle wrote:Hmm, you're an intrepid... family of adventurers!

What could possibly be more tied to each other?

Also, when could having such an interesting RP dynamic be so mechanically powerful? I mean seriously... +1d10 to everything you do b/c your fellow PCs are in danger?

I want to run such a game now or play in one. Seriously.


You have a good point, although any horror GM would probably shout "Munchkin alert!"

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Re: Pirate's Quarter: OGL Horror

Post by Catharz »

FrankTrollman at [unixtime wrote:1197559712[/unixtime]]I'd much rather see a system where it was a slippery slope and the more zombies you saw the harder it would be to keep your school talking to the PTA and the guy at the bakery.


Ah, so that's why adventurers all hang out in the same inn. It's like a VFW for people who kill zombies and loot corpses and can't deal with normal people in normal ways anymore (i.e. not charming everyone they talk to or going all kleptomaniacal).
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Re: Pirate's Quarter: OGL Horror

Post by Prak »

Catharz at [unixtime wrote:1197573359[/unixtime]]
FrankTrollman at [unixtime wrote:1197559712[/unixtime]]I'd much rather see a system where it was a slippery slope and the more zombies you saw the harder it would be to keep your school talking to the PTA and the guy at the bakery.


Ah, so that's why adventurers all hang out in the same inn. It's like a VFW for people who kill zombies and loot corpses and can't deal with normal people in normal ways anymore (i.e. not charming everyone they talk to or going all kleptomaniacal).


that's actually a really good explanation for adventurers guilds and taverns... everyone's an adventurer, even the owner and his serving staff have adventured, so everyone knows what to expect and they play by their own rules. It also might explain why paladins aren't supposed to adventure with evil people, because they will, ostensibly, become used to and desensitized to the methods of evil and not only accept it when evil is done because it has to be, but they will also cease to be able to function with their fellow paladins.
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Re: Pirate's Quarter: OGL Horror

Post by CalibronXXX »

Heh, it's like we can't even talk about something around here without forming some revolutionary new way to make it better. I really like the idea though.
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Re: Pirate's Quarter: OGL Horror

Post by Captain_Bleach »

The more I think about it, the more the game mechanics seem to fit; nobody is incredibly munchkined out without excessive cheese. However, if you are going to do OGL Horror, make sure that your concept won't be useless; a game set entirely in Silent Hill where no vehicle works is one where the Drive and Pilot skills are useless; same for Profession in a game where you are stuck on a nightmare island and raw cash and wealth isn't going to get you anywhere.
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Re: Pirate's Quarter: OGL Horror

Post by Captain_Bleach »

FrankTrollman at [unixtime wrote:1197559712[/unixtime]]I could actually see a system of madness where desensitization was the definition of insanity and thus the more you were exposed to the same thing the faster your insanity meter dropped. In short, as a normal person you're pretty horrified if people get torn in half in front of you and are nauseated by people getting eaten by worms. The idea of eating other people doesn't even enter into your day to day thoughts.

But if you ran around the ghoul barrows for a while, living day to day on the leavings of your hosts and the corpses of the fallen - it would eventually seem normal to you. And at that point you wouldn't be a normal person anymore. You'd be a full-time monster hunter and possibly you'd be better at that job. But hanging out in the mall or chatting up the lady behind the postal desk you just wouldn't fit in. Your experiences, your expectations of the world are so at odds with normality that if authority figures really sit down and have an honest discussion with you they'll try to get you committed to an institution.

But that's really not what people normally write when they write insanity rules. They write it as a sliding scale where the more zombies you see the more likely you will be to lose your cool when you see a zombie. And that's just stupid. I'd much rather see a system where it was a slippery slope and the more zombies you saw the harder it would be to keep your school talking to the PTA and the guy at the bakery.

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I love this idea, Frank! Kind of like how Heather in Silent Hill 3 did not become a raging psychopath, but became accustomed to strange and bizarre events.
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Re: Pirate's Quarter: OGL Horror

Post by Bigode »

Frank: isn't something like that that Call of Cthulhu always did? At least, that what a GM of mine who took it as inspiration did ... But well, the insanity meter should drop more slowly as exposure to the same traumatic experience repeats; the person would become jaded, until eventually hitting complete immunity (and a net sanity well lower).
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Re: Pirate's Quarter: OGL Horror

Post by Captain_Bleach »

Not always; there are different kinds of insanity in CoC.
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Re: Pirate's Quarter: OGL Horror

Post by Username17 »

Bigode at [unixtime wrote:1197763396[/unixtime]]Frank: isn't something like that that Call of Cthulhu always did? At least, that what a GM of mine who took it as inspiration did ... But well, the insanity meter should drop more slowly as exposure to the same traumatic experience repeats; the person would become jaded, until eventually hitting complete immunity (and a net sanity well lower).


No. In the insanity system I'm talking about getting jaded is being insane. At the point where you can look at the eyeless body of young girl flopping around as memory worms chew their way into her cold and stiff joints and go "Meh. These things will be pretty dangerous in about an hour, hand me the gas can." you are a fucking lunatic.

The CoC system was that each monster would drive you a certain amount crazy, and how much of that crazy you got per meeting was variable. And when you finally lost it, you'd become like agoraphobic or something stupid. That's balls. If interacting with shoggoth didn't make me afraid of snakes the first time, it's not going to do so the second or third time.

But if you actually come to terms with Shoggoth dealings and treat that as normal: that's a very real kind of insanity. Just not one that games like CoC recognize. They instead assume that characters start that way and they gradually lose the ability to shrug and cope with monsters after dealing with them for a while. And you could make a whole separate mechanic about breakdowns, that's not what they did.

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Re: Pirate's Quarter: OGL Horror

Post by Crissa »

When you prepare in every setting as if a Shoggoth is in the broom closet, you may be acting completely rationally.

But to normal people, you will seem very not-sane.

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Re: Pirate's Quarter: OGL Horror

Post by tzor »

The trick to understanding CoC insanity is to understand the fallicy of the Victorian Certanty Principle; the universe is known, finite, logical, and we understand it all. The thought that the universe is somehow not what you learned it to be in school was supposed to drive the Victorian mind to insanity, or nillhism, which is the same thing. You don't need anchient horrors to drive a Victorian insane, heck quantum mechanics and string theory would probably be equally as effective.

(The VCP was not limited to Victorian England; IIRC someone appointed to the pattent office in the US in the 1890's wanted to close it down because he thought that everything that was going to be invented already had been.)

This is why true CoC is almost impossible in practice. You need to take the players mindset and give it a good mind fuck. This is a lot harder for gamers because they are used to radically changing their point of view. To them a setting with monsters is expected! You almost need an anti-CoC, where people expect there to be monsters around every corner but fact they are the ones who are just plain crazy. :tongue: No gamer can deal with there NOT being monsters out there.
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Re: Pirate's Quarter: OGL Horror

Post by RandomCasualty »

FrankTrollman at [unixtime wrote:1197854803[/unixtime]]
The CoC system was that each monster would drive you a certain amount crazy, and how much of that crazy you got per meeting was variable. And when you finally lost it, you'd become like agoraphobic or something stupid. That's balls. If interacting with shoggoth didn't make me afraid of snakes the first time, it's not going to do so the second or third time.


Yeah, I wasn't really sure why there was just a random table of disorders you got. It seemed kinda odd that you'd just develop a random unrelated disorder. Like I could see maybe multiple personalities or something, but why would you suddenly develop nymphomania after seeing a shoggoth. What the hell?
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Re: Pirate's Quarter: OGL Horror

Post by Judging__Eagle »

So, if you're a more hardcore adventurer, you have a penalty on diplomacy checks with non-adventurers?

Since they don't have a fucking clue what shit can be like.

As well as a bonus with other adventurers?

Since they are on the same page as you.
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Re: Pirate's Quarter: OGL Horror

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Re: Pirate's Quarter: OGL Horror

Post by Bigode »

FrankTrollman at [unixtime wrote:1197854803[/unixtime]]No. In the insanity system I'm talking about getting jaded is being insane. At the point where you can look at the eyeless body of young girl flopping around as memory worms chew their way into her cold and stiff joints and go "Meh. These things will be pretty dangerous in about an hour, hand me the gas can." you are a fucking lunatic.
I know that was your proposal; what I meant's that, at a certain point, one wouldn't have anywhere to go more jaded after certain level of exposure to a single thing, and wouldn't get any worse (due to not finding it special at all) from the same stuff, but'd already be ... bad.
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Re: Pirate's Quarter: OGL Horror

Post by Daiba »

FrankTrollman at [unixtime wrote:1197854803[/unixtime]]
No. In the insanity system I'm talking about getting jaded is being insane. At the point where you can look at the eyeless body of young girl flopping around as memory worms chew their way into her cold and stiff joints and go "Meh. These things will be pretty dangerous in about an hour, hand me the gas can." you are a fucking lunatic.


I like this. A lot. And I'll be using something like this for my next d20 modern game.
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Re: Pirate's Quarter: OGL Horror

Post by PhoneLobster »

wrote:It seemed kinda odd that you'd just develop a random unrelated disorder.

I'm sure the justification was that it was a break along a pre existing character flaw or something.

These days I make that more so by having players select their potential insanity in advance as part of character creation.

But ultimately I think it was done that way as some attempt to have something to DO when your character freaks out.

OK so if you are unjaded and you face a monster you freak out. But what do you do?

If you are jaded and you face a general store owner you freak out, but again, what do you do?

And how is the way you freak out any different in those two situations, and compared to other individuals in similar situations?

I've found myself mulling over serious problems with sanity systems. And Franks idea is cool.

But the things I've had difficulty with are different. Like how its random that you develop Nymphomania. And how going more nuts doesn't give you Nymphomania++ it gives you Nymphomania+Pyromania+Agrophobia.

And how all of those things are actually really vague and unbalanced in their guidelines on their effects on what you DO.

And how enforcement of actually freaking out and doing freaky things is totally vague and non existent.
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Re: Pirate's Quarter: OGL Horror

Post by technomancer »

Nymphomania+Pyromania+Agrophobia.


So you try to have lots and lots of sex outdoors after setting a grass fire? Sounds kinky and dangerous.
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Re: Pirate's Quarter: OGL Horror

Post by cthulhu »

Agrophobia means you fear the outside, so this is you have sex in the hotel after setting it on fire.
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Re: Pirate's Quarter: OGL Horror

Post by the_taken »

One better: set the hotel on fire with sex.
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