Fire Mage

[Catharz]

First, the relevant class:

1171224679[/unixtime]]

Okay, here's the deal: I think that magic in D&D is too powerful. Not just that magic *users* are too powerful, but magic itself.

That's understandable. Magic in D&D is about as powerful as in any game. Characters in Shadowrun, or World of Darkness, or even Champions pale in comparison to what even a mid-level Magician can do in D&D.

But that's because a character in D&D is supposed to be very powerful. The standard Orc Warrior is supposed to pose no meaningful threat to an 8th level character. Seriously, a character is supposed to be able to chop their way through essentially limitless armies of armed low-morale humanoids before they hit 10th level. And the game is supposed to go to 20th - where characters are supposed to be able to wade through essentially limitless armies of the guys who could wade through essentially limitless armies of normals.

---

Really, if you want to play D&D and you don't want a crazy power curve, you'r essentially stuck playing at levels 1-6. After that, things are supposed to go over-he-top bat shit crazy.

So I want a magical class that is less game-breaking (in terms of effects like teleport, fabricate, and wish) while still being good at fighting monsters. And one that a new player can quickly learn.

That's a really tall order. The spell list in the Player's handbook is 107 pages long, and more space is devoted to spells in new supplements than any other aspect of the game. Just being a "spellcaster" essentially is an intractable problem for any new player.

As I see it, you're really looking at the following list of real design criteria:

• Character must "feel like" a Wizard in the sense that if you saw him doing his stuff in a movie you'd describe him as a Wizard.
  
• Character must be able to take on opponents of his level drawn from Team Monster in a reasonable manner.
  
• Character must be able to be explained to a new player in a reasonable amount of time even starting at a high level.
  
• Character should have a defined battlefield role.
  
• Character should be able to exist at high level simultaneously with the 6th-level Knight centered feudalism that a lot of people think exists in D&D.
  
• Character should be forced to play with the wealth-by-level system.

The last two demands I don't think are practical. However, just off the top of my head, let's make a character that can sort of do that at least for a while:

Fire Mage
"Yes, fire is cool."

A Fire Mage is someone who burns their own soul out to burn the bodies of others. Tactically, they shine against groups of enemies, because fires spread across the battlefield like a plague.

Alignment: Fire is a destructive force, and a lot of Fire Mages are Chaotic. But they don't have to be.

Races: Fire Mages appear in all races, though significant portions of many races live in areas where being a Fire Mage is illegal.

Starting Gold: 6d6x10 gp (210 gold)

Starting Age: As Rogue.

Hit Die: d8
Class Skills: The Fire Mage's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Concentration (Con), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (-), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), and Use Rope (Dex).

Skills/Level: 4 + Intelligence Bonus
BAB: Medium (as Cleric), Saves: Fort: Good; Reflex: Good; Will: Good

Level, Benefit
1 Fire Resistance, Fire Burst, Fire Bolts, Impress Flames, Fire Magic
2 Ignite
3 Piercing Flames, Hand of Fire
4 Fire Immunity, Smokeless Flame
5 Fireballs
6 Mindfire
7 Visions of Flame
8 Soul of Cinders
9 Sculpt Flames
10 Conflagration
11 Beacon, Firewalk
12 Bonds of Fire
13 Fire Clouds
14 Searing Light, Ray of Light
15 Sending, Rain of Fire

All of the following are Class Features of the Fire Mage class:
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Fire Mages are proficient with all simple weapons, as well as the whip, all martial axes, and all sizes and varieties of scimitar (including falchions). Fire Mages are proficient with light armor but not with shields of any kind.

Fire Resistance (Ex): A Fire Mage has a Resistance to Fire equal to twice his level.

Fire Burst (Sp): As a standard action, a Fire Mage can emit a burst of flame from his body, striking all creatures and objects within 10' of his position except himself. This burst of flames inflicts 1d6 of fire damage, with an allowed Reflex Save for half (DC 10 + ½ Level + Charisma Modifier).

Fire Bolts (Sp): A Fire Mage can throw bolts of fire as an attack action. A Fire Bolt tavels out to short range, and inflicts 1d6 of Fire damage per level. A Fire Bolt strikes its target with a ranged touch attack.

Impress Flames (Ex): Every time a Fire Mage inflicts Fire damage on any target, whether with his class abilities or another source of fire, he inflicts an amount of extra Fire Damage equal to his class level or his Charisma modifier, whichever is less.

Fire Magic (Ex): A Fire Mage is considered to have every spell with the Fire Descriptor on his spell list for the purpose of activating magic items.

Ignite (Sp): As a standard action, a 2nd level Fire Mage can cause any creature or object to burst into flame. A creature on fire suffers 1d6 of Fire damage per round (the Mage's Impress Flames ability applies to each round of course), and the creature can attempt to put itself out with a DC 15 Reflex save (see the DMG, p. 303). This ability can be used out to Medium range, and it always hits.

Piercing Flames (Ex): From 3rd level on, a Fire Mage's Fire cuts through Fire Resistance, hardness, and Immunity. No more than ½ of the damage inflicted by his fire damage can be negated by hardness or immunity or resistance to Fire. In addition, the Fire Mage ignores the first 5 points of Fire Resistance that a target has.

Hand of Fire (Su): A 3rd level Fire Mage can set fire to their own body, causing them to count as armed at all times, even with unarmed attacks. The Fire Mage also causes an extra 1d6 of Fire damage with all melee attacks.

Fire Immunity (Ex): A 4th level Fire Mage is immune to Fire.

Smokeless Flame (Sp): A 4th level Fire Mage can create fires that produce no heat and do not burn. These fires can be anything from the size of a torch to a bonfire, and produce light accordingly. Each lasts until the next time the sun rises. Smokeless Flame can be created anywhere within Medium range.

Fireballs (Sp): A 5th level Fire Mage can hurl explosive fire anywhere within Long Range as a Full Round Action. This Fire explodes into a 20' radius burst and inflicts 1d6 of Fire Damage per level. All creatures within the area are entitled to a Reflex save to halve damage (DC 10 + ½ Level + Charisma Modifier).

Mindfire (Sp): A 6th level Fire Mage can start a Fire in a creature's mind, duplicating the effects of rage or confusion for a number of minutes equal to his Level. The victim must be within Medium Range, and is entitled to a Will Save to negate this effect (DC 10 + ½ Level + Charisma Modifier). This is a Mind influencing Compulsion effect.

Visions of Flame (Sp): A 7th level Fire Mage can contact other plane to communicate with the denizens of the Elemental Plane of Fire. A Fire Mage is in no danger of becoming insane or damaged by this experience.

Soul of Cinders (Sp): An 8th level Fire Mage has burnt his soul to ash, and is no longer susceptible to Energy Drain or Fear.

Sculpt Flames (Sp): A 9th level Fire Mage can create delicate shapes and walls made of fire. The Fire is fully shapeable, but cannot pass through more than 2 squares per level. Any creature passing through a square with fire in it suffers 1d6 of fire damage per level. A creature which is in a square that is being filled with fire is entitled to a Reflex Save (DC 10 + ½ Level + Charisma Modifier) to move to the nearest non-flaming square as an immediate action. These fires persist for 1 round per level. Alternately, the Fire Mage can replicate a wall of fire which persists for 1 minute per level.

Conflagration (Sp): At 10th level, a Fire Mage can surround himself with a nimbus of flames that extends for 10' in all directions from his person. All other targets in this area suffer a d10 of Fire Damage per level, but are entitled to a Reflex Save (DC 10 + ½ Level + Charisma Modifier). In addition, a Fire Mage can cast fireshield at will (Hot Shield only).

Beacon (Sp): An 11th level Fire Mage can create a magically permanent bonfire as a standard action. He always knows exactly where each Beacon he has created is and will know if it is put out by any means.

Firewalk (Sp): At 11th level a Fire Mae can walk into any fire large enough to fit his person and appear in any other fire that is likewise of sufficient size anywhere on any plane of existence. The Fire Mage must know where the target fire is. The Fire Mage can take any number of willing creatures or carried objects that are also able to fit in both flames.

Bonds of Fire (Sp): A 12th level Fire Mage can craft solid fire and entrap a victim in it. The bonds will immobilize a creature which fails a Reflex Save (DC 10 + ½ Level + Charisma Modifier), and will entangle the creature unless it succeeds in its save by more than 5. A creature can attempt to escape by taking a Full round action to make a Strength or Escape Artist test with a DC equal to the Use Rope Skill Result of the Fire Mage. The victim suffers 20 points of Fire Damage per round, and the bonds of fire last until the victim escapes or the Fire Mage dismisses them.

Fire Clouds (Sp): As a Full Round Action, a 13th level Fire Mage can create huge billowing clouds of Fire. The Fire Clouds must be created within Long range, and persist for 3 rounds whether they are still in range or not. The cloud is shapeable, and covers at most 3 10' cubes per Level. Each round, everyone and everything inside the cloud suffers 1d6 of Fire damage per level, but is entitled to a Reflex save for half damage (DC 10 + ½ Level + Charisma Modifier).

Searing Light (Sp): A 14th level Fire Mage can call levels of illumination that are painful and destructive as the unmitigated baleful glare of the sun itself. All darkness within 5 miles is dispelled, and everything is illuminated. All undead suffer a 10 points of damage per round. All creatures specifically vulnerable to light suffer 10 damage per round (thus, vampires suffer 20 damage per round). All creatures are dazzled. Creatures must pass a Fortitude save (DC 10 + ½ Level + Charisma Modifier) every minute or become blind for the remainder of the effect. Creatures that are blinded when the effect ends are entitled to another Fort save to get their vision back, but if they fail this save the blinding is permanent. This effect lasts until the Fire Mage dismisses it or he is incapacitated.

Ray of Light (Sp): As an attack action, a 14th level Fire Mage can fire a ray of Light at any target within Short Range. It inflicts 1d6 of Light Damage per level if it hits with a Ranged Tuuch Attack. Undead take 10 extra damage. Creatures specifically vulnerable to Light suffer an additional 10 damage.

Sending (Sp): A 15th level Fire Mage can send a message, as the sending spell to any creature on any plane of existence with a standard action and receive a reply even if they are on different planes of existence.

Rain of Fire (Sp): At 15th level, the Fire Mage can open the skies and dump raw inferno upon all who would oppose him. The fires inflict 1d6 of Fire Damage per level, and victims are permitted a Reflex save (DC 10 + ½ level + Charisma Modifier). The Fire Mage chooses which squares are struck with fire, and the only limits to how many squares can burn is how many squares the Fire Mage can see. There are no range limits to this power save line of sight.

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That's a basic artillery piece character that should be fairly easy to explain tactically. And it has a couple of neat schticks, and a reason to exist at high level if you intend to fight the occassional army.

-Username17

The fire mage has to get a bit more complex to work in a higher level campaign. The first ability I'd suggest is Brass Pact. The guy is an artillerist, and Frank hasn't given him any fire-related summoning, so the purpose of this ability isn't to get a battlefield ally. It's to get three wishes.

[RandomCasualty]

1175039003[/unixtime]]
Wow. That sucks. Especially the 'per adventure' rule.

Well yeah, pretty much. But that's because if you don't nerf all that stuff it just turns into a match of rocket launcher tag. The first thing you've got to to do to make high levels work is to tone down the deadliness. So guys tossing effectively infinite damage attacks just can't exist, because if you can toss infinite damage at level 15 there's nowhere to go at level 16, 17 or 18. And keep in mind as D&D rules go, 1000+ damage is pretty much equivalent to infinite, unless you use the bullshit epic rules with creatures of 70+ hit dice with massive con scores.

D&D gets insane at higher levels, and there's no easy fix. A crude fix is just to go in swinging with the nerf bat and that may buy you a few more levels.

I don't know if it's worth it or not, but it's about all you can do.

There's also option B, where you simply ban the non-caster classes and force every PC to make a caster of some sort. If you're running just druids, clerics, wizards and maybe sorcerers, you might be able to get by. Even then, you've still got a lot of loopholes to plug. By then you're just playing the insanity game, but if all the opponents are wizards too, you might get a tactical version of rocket launcher tag which could work. It wouldn't be D&D as we know it, but it might still be fun to people who enjoy a vast array of magic countermeasures and counter-countermeasures.

It's just a matter of what you want the game to look like. Most people tend to want to play the same game they were playing at 5th-10th level, just with a few new abilities and some higher numbers. Other people want an entirely new style of gaming where you don't adventure, but rather spend your days huddled in a hidden extraplanar lair using scry spells and astral projection to try to get a fix on your foes so you can teleport ambush them. Meanwhile, your foes are trying the same thing. But all your lairs are so well shielded as to be undetectable, so it turns into a never ending war between two superpowers.

To facilitate that game though, you need to have every PC be a spellcaster. Skill based characters and fighter types don't fit in an at all, because everyone is fighting on a magical level now, just trying to get off the first shot. All your 'adventures' take place by astral projection versus astral projection, which really amounts to who can fire off the first Disjunction spell. Nobody really dies anymore.

Of course, it's better to get auto-disjoined as a projection than lose most of your equipment getting disjoined in real life.

Now, the thing is that because you can't directly strike your real enemies, you've got to go after their minions. So most of the campaign is likely just a matter of terrorizing little guys. If you don't allow the wish economy, then you're looking at gemstone mines as the primary targets, since you need gem components for astral projection and true resurrection.

If on the other hand, you do allow the wish economy, then chief targets are the souls of high ranking servants. Basically since by the time you hit level 17 or so, you become untouchable, the goal is to stop people from reaching that level. So you're going around soul binding a bunch of level 10+ wizards and clerics and preventing the enemy from increasing its ranks. Of course, the evil wizards are doing the same to you, so it resembles two terrorist cells fighting each other.

Now, eventually you soul bind all the mages of that level and start working your way down... In the end you probably just end up reducing the rest of the non-high-level world to ashes when you start burning up commoners (just to make sure).

The real question becomes how the PCs even made it to level 15 or whatever without getting pounded down by already established supermages.

[Catharz]

Then there's option C: Give the non-casters crazy abilities to let the compete. Stuff like antimagic field which doesn't mess with your items, or targeted MKD at will, or a ranged 'interrupt' ability, or a 'reflect' ability, or something which makes them into casters.

[Brobdingnagian]

For once, I actually appreciate the WoD system. Jeez. I knew high level D&D was rocket-tag, but... damn.

[User3]

1175056921[/unixtime]]For once, I actually appreciate the WoD system. Jeez. I knew high level D&D was rocket-tag, but... damn.

You're kidding, right?

WoD characters own with Dominate from game 1 - you don't even need to get any experience before you can push yourself into crazy town!

(I don't know about nWoD, but oWoD had a huge host of problems where the rules just broke down or became so horribly broken that you if it came up the game had to end. Dominate was still teh pwnxor, but various Thaum paths, the True Brujah power (i can't even remember what its called), and even Presence when used right could totally fuck up your game before you even got into what the designers thought was crazy territory (6+ dots in disciplines). High level D+D is at least playable, vaguely. WoD is only playable if everyone agrees not to break things).

[RandomCasualty]

1175067021[/unixtime]]
WoD characters own with Dominate from game 1 - you don't even need to get any experience before you can push yourself into crazy town!

Dominate? You're aware that it doesn't work on vamps of higher generation at all, right?

If anything, presence 3 and 4 were the big uber abilities.

And anyway, vampire wasn't quite as bad as D&D, because at least in vampire you could kill things permanently, so there was a reason for all out war not to break out. A lot of WoD is fear based, because when you try crazy shit, you might get killed. Vampires are immortal and thus have little need to try crazy stuff, at least most of the time. It's why they tend to move in a more civil fashion instead of just dominating everyone they see and making a ton of enemies.

In D&D high level casters don't even fear death. So there's nothing stopping them from going on astral projection based suicide bombings.

[Brobdingnagian]

Could a wizard chain bind a Solar or something and just tell it, "When I die, bring me back."? Or does the effect wear off when the wizard dies?

[Aktariel]

Alright.

Let me say this, before this thread drops off the cliff...

For the campaign I would be playing this in, we are running a simplified campaign. Sort of.. back to basics. We are disallowing almost all of the books aside from core [A couple of Complete's and a Race or two is about all...] We're trying to keep it simple for several reasons: 1] We have some relatively new players and want it to not be too overwhelming for them 2] The DM would like to keep things simple, as games with too many splatbooks seem to do just that and 3] So it can serve as a testbed for homebrew and other people's homebrew ideas [such as the excellent Tomes of Fiends, Necromancy, and War found on this site.]

And that's not all. Not only are we cutting down on splatbooks, we're nerfing casters. Completely. I mean, kicking them in the nuts until they are bloody.

They simply don't exist. You cannot play a primary caster in this game. The Paladin is the strongest divine caster in the game. I kid you not. Warlock is probably the strongest arcane caster.

So you see, when I ask about the Fire Mage, I don't have to worry about playing "rocket tag." He may well end up being the strongest arcane caster in the game.

Perhaps now you can see why I'd like 20 levels?


And on a different topic, does anyone have any idea what sort of class combo was intended to qualify for the Boneblade Reaper prestige class from the Tome of Necro? [And where the heck do I find the Dragoncrafter feat...]

I was thinking Monk 2/Paladin of Slaughter 5, but this suffers from terrible MAD...

[PhoneLobster]

Not to harsh on anyones parade man...

But if Frank and K balance their classes to be like casters, then you remove all casters because they are over powered, then you put in Frank and K's classes,

Well, I see a problem.

[Aktariel]

Where? I don't.

The fact that they're balanced to something that no longer exists in game doesn't matter all that much; they are still balanced relative to each other.

We didn't remove casters specifically becuse they were overpowered [they are] - we removed them mostly because they were excessively [in our view]
complicated.

And are you honestly going to try to tell me that these melee classes are on par with the brokenation of shapechange? Or even the power of prismatic wall?

Sure, the power level for this game might be higher, but the fact that casters aren't there doesn't mean that all of a sudden Frank's and K's classes are broken...

It just means that no one wades through pages and pages of spells.

Or has to keep track of them.

It's not like these classes are designed to kill casters... At least, not all of them...

[Cielingcat]

1175085780[/unixtime]]And on a different topic, does anyone have any idea what sort of class combo was intended to qualify for the Boneblade Reaper prestige class from the Tome of Necro? [And where the heck do I find the Dragoncrafter feat...]

I was thinking Monk 2/Paladin of Slaughter 5, but this suffers from terrible MAD...

Wizard/Monk.

[Aktariel]

1175086903[/unixtime]]
Wizard/Monk.

Right. That still kinda suffers from MAD...

Maybe a Dread Necromancer?

Who designed this class? What did they have in mind? Any sample builds around? Even a hint would be enough to get me up and running...

There's got to be a Quintessential Boneblade Reaper around here somewhere... and where is that Dragoncrafter feat...


Oh yeah, and any alternate builds? Since we're kinda not allowing PAC's in the game I was thinking of playing...

[Cielingcat]

Well, you're supposed to go in as like a Monk 2/Wizard 6, and then you get to be a sub-par spellcaster and a sub-par warrior with a bunch of cool stuff. Basically like any other gish, but you run around in skimpy black clothes and creepy tattoos instead of armor. Also, instead of throwing out battlefield control spells you channel necromancy through your sword. But yes, you could be a Dread Necromancer.

Dragoncrafter is from the Draconomicon. It's a good read if you like mindless dragon fanboyism, which is to say you shouldn't ever buy it.

[Judging__Eagle]

1175086046[/unixtime]]Not to harsh on anyones parade man...

But if Frank and K balance their classes to be like casters, then you remove all casters because they are over powered, then you put in Frank and K's classes,

Well, I see a problem.

Nah, it's not a problem.

I didn't want to play a caster, and a few other people wanted to play druids and rogues.

So, I played a RoW barbarian, and they played Druids and Rogues.

It went well. Until somebody decided that they didn't want to run WLD.

So, now we're starting it again.

[Endovior]

Technically, you can get into Boneblade Reaper without multiclassing at all. Refer to http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php ... 3[br]Since anyone can pick up Evasion by taking Lightning Reflexes, anyone who can cast spells can qualify, although this works best for those with Move Silently on their list. Personally, I'd recommend a Dungeonomicon Assassin, although one could also use a Jester, a Bard, or a Beguiler if you're willing to rather severely tweak the archetype. Alternatively, if you've got an extra feat to burn (if you're human, in other words), you could use it to get Move Silently as a class skill anyways, and thus get in as a straight Wizard or Cleric.

Of course, you've completely subverted the point of the class by this point, but who cares?

[Cielingcat]

If you use Races of War, you likely also use the Dungeonomicon, which means you should probably use the Boneblade Reaper retooled to work with the Dungeonomicon Monk.

[Endovior]

Yeah, that's what I linked to, and why this trick works; the original version requires Improved Unarmed Strike and as such doesn't work with this trick.

[Cielingcat]

I forgot it was Fighting Styles OR Evasion.

[RandomCasualty]

1175086046[/unixtime]]Not to harsh on anyones parade man...

But if Frank and K balance their classes to be like casters, then you remove all casters because they are over powered, then you put in Frank and K's classes,

Well, I see a problem.

Well the Fire Mage actually seems like he can theoretically fit with any campaign, as he seems balanced against monsters of a given CR, as opposed to balanced against casters (which transcend the CR system when played well).

Though, PhoneLobster has a point if you plan on including any of the other Frank and K classes, especially the RoW fighter, who (like a spellcaster) cuts through the CR balance paradigm like a hot knife through butter. These classes are clearly balanced by the premise of competing with the ubercasters, as opposed to the monsters

[Judging__Eagle]

Yeah...

The lvl 12 RoW fighter I posted here a week or two ago was able to deal with monsters possbily as high as CR ... 14 on it's own. Some people said CR 16, but I had only posted my notes on the character up until that point; his AC was a only 30-40 something and his DR wasn't 17/Adamantine (12), - (5); but rather 5/-, since I had gone for a Stealth-based Fighter(-Bomber).

[Aktariel]

1175109630[/unixtime]]If you use Races of War, you likely also use the Dungeonomicon, which means you should probably use the Boneblade Reaper retooled to work with the Dungeonomicon Monk.

Yes, I wondered about that...

Thank you for the link, Endovior.

So, you can theoretically play as a Dread Necromancer/Dungeonomicon Monk...

What about the Retooled Warlock from the same page as the fire mage?

I can just imagine the tagline: "The fires of Hell and the powers of darkness come together within my soul."

With some creative mixing and matching between the Revised and Standard Warlock and the Old and New Boneblade Reaper, and of course DM approval, I might be able to make it fly...

the +1 spellcasting bit would increase spheres just as though you had gained a level in the Rev.War. class, and [just like the StanWar] increase your Eldritch Blast damage.

But there aren't that many Necromancy spells on the Spheres list... Hrm. Perhaps a new sphere...

[Cielingcat]

Which Warlock, mine or Frank's? I'm partial to mine, but I wrote it.

[Aktariel]

There's more than one?

I think I'm referring to yours... I found it in the same thread as the Fire Mage...

Where can I find the other one?

[Cielingcat]

Well, Frank put his in his first post, and mine is further down. Specifically, it's the last one.

[Catharz]

"+1 level of an existing class" is a bad mechanic to use with spheres. In fact, "bad" isn't a strong enough word.

The advantage of a sphere is that it's worth just about the same to anyone at any level. You don't need to add another 'level' of spheres because spheres are already level-appropriate. You just either add a sphere, or don't.

On the other hand, +1 level of a sphere-using class may be worth a sphere, or it may be worth absolutely nothing at all.