Not really a question about these rules, but would it mess with the numbers too much to have Essence simply act as a cap to Resonance (and Magic too, I guess) instead of lost Essence actively subtracting from it? I'm running another group of new players, and it'd be easier to have them figure out "Magic <= (Essence + Immersion)" than
"(Magic - 6 + Essence) <= (Essence + Immersion)".
The Ends v4.01
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I guess if that's mathematically easier to understand, it probably doesn't matter, but you still have to answer the question of what happens if someone who has Magic 6 decides to implant some cybereyes, because sometimes things happen in that order. Essence already is your Magic/Resonance cap.
P.C. Hodgell wrote:That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
shadzar wrote:i think the apostrophe is an outdated idea such as is hyphenation.
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That would amount to a substantial point giveaway to cyber mages. Adepts, fr example, would then lose literally nothing by taking their favorite cyber bits. TMs and Mages would lose the ability to buy maximum casting attributes, but would lose nothing if their actual plan was to start with a 4 or whatever.
Essentially you would be subsidizing cyber/magic characters to the tune of 10-20 BP, which would be most noticeable for Adepts. If you want more cyber/magic characters and more Adepts, then go for it. Of course, there wuld be basically no incentive to be mundane at that point, since basically everyone is going to have at least an Essence of 1 and you can always find 1 point of Adept powers that is worth 5 BP.
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Essentially you would be subsidizing cyber/magic characters to the tune of 10-20 BP, which would be most noticeable for Adepts. If you want more cyber/magic characters and more Adepts, then go for it. Of course, there wuld be basically no incentive to be mundane at that point, since basically everyone is going to have at least an Essence of 1 and you can always find 1 point of Adept powers that is worth 5 BP.
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JesterZero
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My question is particularly for Frank, since Ends/brainhacking is his baby, but I'd welcome insight from other Denizens.
When you consider balancing physical/magical/matrix attacks in light of Blackhammering your mom, doesn't the hacker seem to have something of an insurmountable advantage?
When the street sam shoots your mom, presumably they had to smuggle in a weapon, the weapon is relatively obvious, the weapon goes "boom," and people tend to notice when other people's heads start disappearing in a cloud of red mist. (And yes, this can be mitigated by non-ferrous weapons, concealed points of attack, silenced guns, going SuperSquirt instead of bullets, etc...but those have trade-offs).
When the mage mana bolts your mom, presumably they might have come through wards, been assensed, the spell goes "boom" (at least in astral space), and then have to deal with drain. (And yes, this can be mitigated by masking, foci, high Willpower, etc...but those have trade-offs).
When the hacker Blackhammers your mom, they need her to be in Signal range, have LOS, and...well, I think that's it. The hacker never runs out of ammo, never goes unconscious from drain...they just push a button.
Please understand that this is not an objection to brainhacking per se...I actually love the idea. I'm just trying to understand how hacking doesn't trump everything in every scenario from "lone gunman" to "remember the Alamo."
Is it simply because attack programs are single-target and require a complex action, so if the hacker gets rushed they're better off reaching for a gun or a grenade?
Thanks!
When you consider balancing physical/magical/matrix attacks in light of Blackhammering your mom, doesn't the hacker seem to have something of an insurmountable advantage?
When the street sam shoots your mom, presumably they had to smuggle in a weapon, the weapon is relatively obvious, the weapon goes "boom," and people tend to notice when other people's heads start disappearing in a cloud of red mist. (And yes, this can be mitigated by non-ferrous weapons, concealed points of attack, silenced guns, going SuperSquirt instead of bullets, etc...but those have trade-offs).
When the mage mana bolts your mom, presumably they might have come through wards, been assensed, the spell goes "boom" (at least in astral space), and then have to deal with drain. (And yes, this can be mitigated by masking, foci, high Willpower, etc...but those have trade-offs).
When the hacker Blackhammers your mom, they need her to be in Signal range, have LOS, and...well, I think that's it. The hacker never runs out of ammo, never goes unconscious from drain...they just push a button.
Please understand that this is not an objection to brainhacking per se...I actually love the idea. I'm just trying to understand how hacking doesn't trump everything in every scenario from "lone gunman" to "remember the Alamo."
Is it simply because attack programs are single-target and require a complex action, so if the hacker gets rushed they're better off reaching for a gun or a grenade?
Thanks!
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Thanks Frank. I also went back and somehow only just now noticed the "Matrix Stealth" section as well, which adds another element of balance.
By the way, since several other threads have mentioned "Inception" as a potential mine of material, how would the idea of a "militarized subconscious" fit into the typical brain-hacking world? A sort of innate firewall?
Perhaps that's a question better suited for one of the Cyberpunk Fantasy Heartbreaker threads...
By the way, since several other threads have mentioned "Inception" as a potential mine of material, how would the idea of a "militarized subconscious" fit into the typical brain-hacking world? A sort of innate firewall?
Perhaps that's a question better suited for one of the Cyberpunk Fantasy Heartbreaker threads...
Hi everyone, I really like these new matrix rules, and want to try them out in a few weeks, but I have some problems understanding some of them:
1: What, in this case, means LOS? Or to be more specific, LOS from where? If I am in New York, can I use LOS-programs on somebody in Tokio if I have control over a commlink or matrix-device near him ? Can I use them through a window or through a camera? What about indirect fire?
2: How do the programs "Jedi Trick", "Misplace" and "Master Control" work? What do they do rulewise?
1: What, in this case, means LOS? Or to be more specific, LOS from where? If I am in New York, can I use LOS-programs on somebody in Tokio if I have control over a commlink or matrix-device near him ? Can I use them through a window or through a camera? What about indirect fire?
2: How do the programs "Jedi Trick", "Misplace" and "Master Control" work? What do they do rulewise?
LOS is drawn from the person running the program, and if you have a directional re-transmitter then you can use LOS from it if you can draw LOS to it, and you can chain them if you want. In the example you listed, it'd be very hard to draw LOS from one city to another because of clouds and buildings, but it's potentially possible.
You can do it through a window (assuming the window isn't a transparent part of a faraday cage, which would block your signal). You probably can't do it through a camera unless the camera has a directional re-transmitter on it and you have LOS to the camera, because otherwise that'd kill the point of the directional re-transmitter and also be way too good.
Jedi Trick - Jedi Trick bypasses a request for a password or show of credentials.
Basically whenever something would ask you for your Identification, or your Papers, or your Password, or in any way give you the "you must be this tall to ride this ride" treatment, then you use Jedi Trick on it and if you win then the target things you just gave them a valid whatever kind of thing they're looking for.
Misplace - Data is stored all kinds of crazy places, and successfully using Misplace causes data to begin being stored in a place topologically similar to “the trashcan”
Misplace prevents a device from storing new data until the program's effect is canceled by someone else (a Complex Action). You'd generally use this on a sensor's data store (eg: the save location for a video camera) so that logs of you being some place aren't there later.
Master Control - Master Control is a method to ramp an account up in privileges.
This program is pretty much the strongest of all the Exploit programs. After you form a Connection with the target, you use Master Control to make your normal Connection into an Admin level Connection. Then the target will do whatever you tell it to the exact same as if it'd told itself to do that. The target can get bonus resistance tests against this to try to end the effect by taking a Matrix Defense action (like with Denial). They can also eliminate the effect if they Reboot.
You can do it through a window (assuming the window isn't a transparent part of a faraday cage, which would block your signal). You probably can't do it through a camera unless the camera has a directional re-transmitter on it and you have LOS to the camera, because otherwise that'd kill the point of the directional re-transmitter and also be way too good.
Jedi Trick - Jedi Trick bypasses a request for a password or show of credentials.
Basically whenever something would ask you for your Identification, or your Papers, or your Password, or in any way give you the "you must be this tall to ride this ride" treatment, then you use Jedi Trick on it and if you win then the target things you just gave them a valid whatever kind of thing they're looking for.
Misplace - Data is stored all kinds of crazy places, and successfully using Misplace causes data to begin being stored in a place topologically similar to “the trashcan”
Misplace prevents a device from storing new data until the program's effect is canceled by someone else (a Complex Action). You'd generally use this on a sensor's data store (eg: the save location for a video camera) so that logs of you being some place aren't there later.
Master Control - Master Control is a method to ramp an account up in privileges.
This program is pretty much the strongest of all the Exploit programs. After you form a Connection with the target, you use Master Control to make your normal Connection into an Admin level Connection. Then the target will do whatever you tell it to the exact same as if it'd told itself to do that. The target can get bonus resistance tests against this to try to end the effect by taking a Matrix Defense action (like with Denial). They can also eliminate the effect if they Reboot.
Lokathor wrote:LOS is drawn from the person running the program, and if you have a directional re-transmitter then you can use LOS from it if you can draw LOS to it, and you can chain them if you want.
Thank you for answering my questions, but I still have a problem with LOS. Since these high-density-signals are generated, why can't I hack a comlink somewhere else to let this device generate high-density-signals ?
Or if it is a game-balance-issue, what is so bad about me black-hammering someone from afair ? Or using Medic on someone i don't see ?
[*]Sometimes you can just throw signals out and hit the network you're after and the precise location difference doesn't matter as long as you're in range of each other. Those programs don't require LOS.
[*]Sometimes you need to throw signal out at very precise locations to flip bits or fire neurons inside of a target device. These are the LOS requiring programs.
Now, I do remember that you can run "Signal (LOS)" range programs over a Connection (you can run basically any program over a Connection), but it might not say that anywhere in the forum posting. That fact might be buried in all the Q/A responses posted here or it might have been a thing I PM'd frank about that isn't posted here. Regardless, it's "game balanced" to be able to run any program over an open Connection even if you don't have LOS to the target.
As to game balance, it's largely that Signal range is extremely long, so if LOS wasn't a limitation then the game would be stupidly unfair. Guns have long ranges and need LOS to be at all useful (I mean you can shoot through doors but it'll basically never work...), magic has unlimited range as long as you have LOS, so to participate in the combat minigame as a hacker (that is, hurting/healing anyone in a fight) you also need LOS (or to have fiddled for enough turns with Connection establishment that everyone gets a warning period).
If someone is harming or about to harm you through a Connection using LOS programs when they don't have LOS on you, you can almost always Reboot to escape it until you can come up with a better solution (over and over if you have to). Rebooting sets your Signal to 0 for a round, which puts you outside Handshake range almost for sure (unless they've got a very powerful Receiver or are already very close). Anything that puts two Networks out of Handshake range also breaks a Connection between said Networks (and drops a device out of a Network, if a device within a Network is out of Handshake with all other devices in the same Network).
[*]Sometimes you need to throw signal out at very precise locations to flip bits or fire neurons inside of a target device. These are the LOS requiring programs.
Now, I do remember that you can run "Signal (LOS)" range programs over a Connection (you can run basically any program over a Connection), but it might not say that anywhere in the forum posting. That fact might be buried in all the Q/A responses posted here or it might have been a thing I PM'd frank about that isn't posted here. Regardless, it's "game balanced" to be able to run any program over an open Connection even if you don't have LOS to the target.
As to game balance, it's largely that Signal range is extremely long, so if LOS wasn't a limitation then the game would be stupidly unfair. Guns have long ranges and need LOS to be at all useful (I mean you can shoot through doors but it'll basically never work...), magic has unlimited range as long as you have LOS, so to participate in the combat minigame as a hacker (that is, hurting/healing anyone in a fight) you also need LOS (or to have fiddled for enough turns with Connection establishment that everyone gets a warning period).
If someone is harming or about to harm you through a Connection using LOS programs when they don't have LOS on you, you can almost always Reboot to escape it until you can come up with a better solution (over and over if you have to). Rebooting sets your Signal to 0 for a round, which puts you outside Handshake range almost for sure (unless they've got a very powerful Receiver or are already very close). Anything that puts two Networks out of Handshake range also breaks a Connection between said Networks (and drops a device out of a Network, if a device within a Network is out of Handshake with all other devices in the same Network).
At the danger of necro-ing this thread: nice writeup, Frank. Even prompted me to create an account so i can give feedback 
.
Despite the arguments you bring i can't find myself agreeing with the far reaching implementation of brain hacking.
My main argument would be that even personal trode net/simrig needs to be calibrated before using it for the first time, i.e. even with the precision due to close proximity it doesn't function off the shelf, so how would an even more remote device be able to copy said effects, especially one that's not specialized on nerve manipulation?
Therefore i could see the [B] powers work fully vs. people that are running in VR, limited (illusion effects) vs. people running in AR, the elements of those illusions depending on the level of AR immersion. Basically the maximum you can accomplish is attacking their image link, tactile receptors and sound generators at the same time.
IF the AR user is VR capable i would allow forcing a switch to VR - which would be noticable by the target, of course, so it would become a matter of initiative.
Your options vs. neither AR nor VR capable targets would be rather limited, unless you managed to get a piece of nerve manipulating hardware close enough. And even then without the extremely close proximity of a trode net and calibration only brute force effects would be applicable.
However, a new option your rules open up which i'd consider valid is subduing a victim, applying and calibrating a trode net (with a negative modifier, since the victim won't be likely to cooperate) and then use the more subtle hacking techniques on his brain.
.Despite the arguments you bring i can't find myself agreeing with the far reaching implementation of brain hacking.
My main argument would be that even personal trode net/simrig needs to be calibrated before using it for the first time, i.e. even with the precision due to close proximity it doesn't function off the shelf, so how would an even more remote device be able to copy said effects, especially one that's not specialized on nerve manipulation?
Therefore i could see the [B] powers work fully vs. people that are running in VR, limited (illusion effects) vs. people running in AR, the elements of those illusions depending on the level of AR immersion. Basically the maximum you can accomplish is attacking their image link, tactile receptors and sound generators at the same time.
IF the AR user is VR capable i would allow forcing a switch to VR - which would be noticable by the target, of course, so it would become a matter of initiative.
Your options vs. neither AR nor VR capable targets would be rather limited, unless you managed to get a piece of nerve manipulating hardware close enough. And even then without the extremely close proximity of a trode net and calibration only brute force effects would be applicable.
However, a new option your rules open up which i'd consider valid is subduing a victim, applying and calibrating a trode net (with a negative modifier, since the victim won't be likely to cooperate) and then use the more subtle hacking techniques on his brain.
Last edited by fela on Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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That's not actually in the rules anywhere. The actual rules are that you can take a single action to smear some trode paste out of a newly opened jar onto your forehead and be up and hacking three seconds later.fela wrote:My main argument would be that even personal trode net/simrig needs to be calibrated before using it for the first time, i.e. even with the precision due to close proximity it doesn't function off the shelf, so how would an even more remote device be able to copy said effects, especially one that's not specialized on nerve manipulation?
In fact, trode paste only comes in an "off the shelf" variety, since it is single use. So if trode paste exists at all, then trodes have to work the first time.
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It's weird, i remember having read the trode calibration part somewhere, but i can't find it in the rules.FrankTrollman wrote:That's not actually in the rules anywhere. The actual rules are that you can take a single action to smear some trode paste out of a newly opened jar onto your forehead and be up and hacking three seconds later.fela wrote:My main argument would be that even personal trode net/simrig needs to be calibrated before using it for the first time, i.e. even with the precision due to close proximity it doesn't function off the shelf, so how would an even more remote device be able to copy said effects, especially one that's not specialized on nerve manipulation?
In fact, trode paste only comes in an "off the shelf" variety, since it is single use. So if trode paste exists at all, then trodes have to work the first time.
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The paste is nano stuff and that's always treated as half magic anyway, nevertheless there's some fluff text about the paste being less precise in 'unwired', which never made it into a rule manifestation. Also where does the 'simple action' part come from? Couldn't find that either. The item description says it can be used to paint a trode net around your head, which sounds rather intricate.
The strongest argument remains proximity, though. Remember that signal strength as well as spatial precision (whichever is more important here) deteriorate with distance^2 even without absorption. And we're speaking about original distances in the <10 cm range, possibly even smaller depending on which part of the cortex those trodes stimulate.
So even an attack from as close as 1m would intrinsically be more than 100 times less precise than the trodes, assuming ideal conditions.
That's not even taking into account cross surface effects, which the paste being smeared on the head and the trode nets - which normally require a (non nanite) contact paste - via direct application to the skin avoid.
Last edited by fela on Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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This is a complete non-argument though. Exact physics schema of how trodes are supposed to work have never been provided by anyone, so if you get to the nitty gritty of it, you could just say "Yes it is!" or "No it isn't!" all day. Those trodes come with a minimal signal rating, which lets them communicate for a few centimeters. But there's nothing stopping them from having a higher signal, and indeed some of them have that.The strongest argument remains proximity, though. Remember that signal strength as well as spatial precision (whichever is more important here) deteriorate with distance^2 even without absorption. And we're speaking about original distances in the <10 cm range, possibly even smaller depending on which part of the cortex those trodes stimulate.
SynthSkin provides a "SkinLink". Now, the people who wrote Unwired are incoherent, and I cannot be certain as to what a SkinLink is supposed to do (it may in fact not do anything at all, if Aaron is to be believed). But if it doesn't provide a DNI, then the fact that you can get it with a signal of 3 or more is rather pointless. And if it does provide a DNI, then the fact that you can put it on the hands of a Troll and still get SkinLink going means that the distance nanotrodes can reach is measured in meters.
Bottom line is that the "proximity" argument is basically argument from incredulity. Nothing anywhere in the rules or setting description actually gives any reason to believe that brain linking would require much in the way of proximity. Broadcasting from significant distances into the brain is something that has been done repeatedly in the setting. Hell, in Brainscan, an Ultraviolet Node broadcasts the matrix wirelessly into the brains of every person in a building simultaneously. That's just a thing that happened... in 2061.
In the rules... well the rules are a mess. But trodes have a reach that is based on their Signal rating, and you can just get them with a bigger Signal rating if that is what you want to do. And then you can brain interface from farther away. It's that simple.
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The lack of specifity of the rules actually serves as an advantage here. It says nowhere that the signal rating of the trodes serves towards connecting with the brain, it could easily be interpreted solely as the Wifi strength for connecting to the commlink, while the brain connecting power is an intrinsic property of the trode net design and has no rating. Same with nanopaste patterns.FrankTrollman wrote:This is a complete non-argument though. Exact physics schema of how trodes are supposed to work have never been provided by anyone, so if you get to the nitty gritty of it, you could just say "Yes it is!" or "No it isn't!" all day. Those trodes come with a minimal signal rating, which lets them communicate for a few centimeters. But there's nothing stopping them from having a higher signal, and indeed some of them have that.The strongest argument remains proximity, though. Remember that signal strength as well as spatial precision (whichever is more important here) deteriorate with distance^2 even without absorption. And we're speaking about original distances in the <10 cm range, possibly even smaller depending on which part of the cortex those trodes stimulate.
SynthSkin provides a "SkinLink". Now, the people who wrote Unwired are incoherent, and I cannot be certain as to what a SkinLink is supposed to do (it may in fact not do anything at all, if Aaron is to be believed). But if it doesn't provide a DNI, then the fact that you can get it with a signal of 3 or more is rather pointless. And if it does provide a DNI, then the fact that you can put it on the hands of a Troll and still get SkinLink going means that the distance nanotrodes can reach is measured in meters.
Bottom line is that the "proximity" argument is basically argument from incredulity. Nothing anywhere in the rules or setting description actually gives any reason to believe that brain linking would require much in the way of proximity. Broadcasting from significant distances into the brain is something that has been done repeatedly in the setting. Hell, in Brainscan, an Ultraviolet Node broadcasts the matrix wirelessly into the brains of every person in a building simultaneously. That's just a thing that happened... in 2061.
In the rules... well the rules are a mess. But trodes have a reach that is based on their Signal rating, and you can just get them with a bigger Signal rating if that is what you want to do. And then you can brain interface from farther away. It's that simple.
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The fluff text (the small bit that exists) actually supports this interpretation.
I'm not sure where your skinlink comes into play here as an argument. The concept is not exactly credible/plausible, but as per RAW those things are not connecting to the brain at all, but simply connecting to the skin to use the skin's surface currents as a connection layer to another skinlink connected to the same person's skin.
I can't judge the validity of your Brainscan argument, as i have not read the book. However, it's a campaign book and 3rd edition, which diminishes its value by a large margin.
Last edited by fela on Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
For Skinlink... I never read Unwired, but the SR4A book does make it sound like it lets your devices communicate with each other using your skin as a medium, and it never mentions them having any broadcast ability at all (which is probably saner). The advantage being that you'd be immune to jamming and people couldn't just listen in on what your network is doing.
That's how I've always played it, and such a thing works well with the rules provided here. You pay +50$ on each device to get some bonus privacy as to what your devices are saying to each other (unless you have a wireless DNI, in which case someone could still pickup the brain/trode connection).
That's how I've always played it, and such a thing works well with the rules provided here. You pay +50$ on each device to get some bonus privacy as to what your devices are saying to each other (unless you have a wireless DNI, in which case someone could still pickup the brain/trode connection).
Last edited by Lokathor on Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sorry about the necro, but I was wondering if there's a pdf/cheat sheet for these rules somewhere other than megaupload, now that it's been taken down. I'm probably going to play in my first game of Shadowrun soonish, and I might talk to the GM about substituting these Matrix rules instead, as he's flat out said he doesn't want a hacker in his game as the rules are too complex and it's too much work designing systems. I might also talk to him about the other houserules here too.
On a different note, any advice for a first-time Shadowrun player?
On a different note, any advice for a first-time Shadowrun player?
I have a PDF copy from March 18/ 2010.
I think that there were maybe a few Q/A clarifications I put into the version I was working on after that, but nothing large. Anything that's left out you can ask about again.
Sadly I don't have the latex files that I used to build it any more, and so we're stuck with this PDF being exactly how it is.
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B91BL8 ... MEdMd0dvZw
I think that there were maybe a few Q/A clarifications I put into the version I was working on after that, but nothing large. Anything that's left out you can ask about again.
Sadly I don't have the latex files that I used to build it any more, and so we're stuck with this PDF being exactly how it is.
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B91BL8 ... MEdMd0dvZw
Watch your back. Shoot straight. Conserve ammo. And never, ever cut a deal with a dragon.Korgan0 wrote:Sorry about the necro, but I was wondering if there's a pdf/cheat sheet for these rules somewhere other than megaupload, now that it's been taken down. I'm probably going to play in my first game of Shadowrun soonish, and I might talk to the GM about substituting these Matrix rules instead, as he's flat out said he doesn't want a hacker in his game as the rules are too complex and it's too much work designing systems. I might also talk to him about the other houserules here too.
On a different note, any advice for a first-time Shadowrun player?
For a minute, I used to be "a guy" in the TTRPG "industry". Now I'm just a nobody. For the most part, it's a relief.
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Alright, for a theoretical Shadowrun Campaign of mine interested in running, considering using Frank's Houserules (especially for hacking). I can only hope the lengthy overhaul for hacking is a simple beast to understand. However, I've noticed there is two posts that have house rules elsewhere.
http://tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?p=58685#58685
http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?p=48581#48581
The second one I've found more clear, and has alternate recoil rules, although precedes the houserules of the other by a few months. So in this case, not sure, especially given the formatting if the one on this thread is the houserules that should be used, ignoring anything that was on the second link? Wondering what house-rules should be considered here, or hell if there's even more updated house rules that Frank would suggest for running in a Shadowrun game?
In addition, considering a few house-rules of my own, such as the idea of melee attacks being a Simple action (bring them more in line with guns), as common of one I'm sure that is on their respective forums/first time Shadowrun DM's.
Also note, only played Shadowrun a few times, and so if I did get this off the ground, it'd be my first RPG to DM outside D&D (and its 3rd edition clones).
http://tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?p=58685#58685
http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?p=48581#48581
The second one I've found more clear, and has alternate recoil rules, although precedes the houserules of the other by a few months. So in this case, not sure, especially given the formatting if the one on this thread is the houserules that should be used, ignoring anything that was on the second link? Wondering what house-rules should be considered here, or hell if there's even more updated house rules that Frank would suggest for running in a Shadowrun game?
In addition, considering a few house-rules of my own, such as the idea of melee attacks being a Simple action (bring them more in line with guns), as common of one I'm sure that is on their respective forums/first time Shadowrun DM's.
Also note, only played Shadowrun a few times, and so if I did get this off the ground, it'd be my first RPG to DM outside D&D (and its 3rd edition clones).
What I find wrong w/ 4th edition: "I want to stab dragons the size of a small keep with skin like supple adamantine and command over time and space to death with my longsword in head to head combat, but I want to be totally within realistic capabilities of a real human being!" --Caedrus mocking 4rries
"the thing about being Mister Cavern [DM], you don't blame players for how they play. That's like blaming the weather. Weather just is. You adapt to it. -Ancient History
"the thing about being Mister Cavern [DM], you don't blame players for how they play. That's like blaming the weather. Weather just is. You adapt to it. -Ancient History
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Username17
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I would use whichever one I found easiest to understand. The half price skills thing is really important, the rest of the changes are not. I mean sure, the game is better if you reduce the cost of overpriced Adept powers because there are more available interesting adept options that don't gimp your character - but it's not necessary. You can always play a cyberadept with super juiced social skills and be a totally playable team member.
-Username17
-Username17
Well seems the second one was easier to understand, and explained what was presented bit better. However, the first one seems to be your more "up to date" Shadowrun rules you have on here. However, second one lists different prices for races, and wonder how the recoil rules change fairs, such as I can assume given clause about how most recoil modifiers do not apply, taken into account such supplements like Arsenal?
I would want all concepts presented in the game to be viable, so I would totally want to use the Adepts reduced costs. I also wonder if there's a general rule to other adept powers I'm sure that exist in other supplements, such as to halve its cost or when in doubt, make it into a ".5power"? Imagine one compares it to cyberware essence loss that does the same thing, and base the power on costing less than that comes to comparisons or something?
In addition, any other House-rules you've developed over the years Frank?, and any protips to running a Shadowrun game would be appreciated. Imagine would be more in theme of like an action movie, so I'm not afraid for big damn heroes, kind of bit I think.
I would want all concepts presented in the game to be viable, so I would totally want to use the Adepts reduced costs. I also wonder if there's a general rule to other adept powers I'm sure that exist in other supplements, such as to halve its cost or when in doubt, make it into a ".5power"? Imagine one compares it to cyberware essence loss that does the same thing, and base the power on costing less than that comes to comparisons or something?
In addition, any other House-rules you've developed over the years Frank?, and any protips to running a Shadowrun game would be appreciated. Imagine would be more in theme of like an action movie, so I'm not afraid for big damn heroes, kind of bit I think.
What I find wrong w/ 4th edition: "I want to stab dragons the size of a small keep with skin like supple adamantine and command over time and space to death with my longsword in head to head combat, but I want to be totally within realistic capabilities of a real human being!" --Caedrus mocking 4rries
"the thing about being Mister Cavern [DM], you don't blame players for how they play. That's like blaming the weather. Weather just is. You adapt to it. -Ancient History
"the thing about being Mister Cavern [DM], you don't blame players for how they play. That's like blaming the weather. Weather just is. You adapt to it. -Ancient History
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Username17
- Serious Badass
- Posts: 29894
- Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
I was working on a complete overhaul of the combat rules. You can find bits of it in this thread here. I abandoned the project because people rebelled.
Basically, SR players en masse announced that they wanted rules for tanks that were playable but they refused to accept rules that were a major rewrite of how combat works. Despite the fact that the reason no playable tank rules exist is because the combat system as it current exists collapses utterly as soon as weapons or toughness get "kind of big".
So basically SR fandom asked me for a set of rules that was literally impossible to write and then bitched when I started making something that fulfilled the original request (playable tank rules) because it didn't stick to the impossible caveat (no change to the core combat engine). So I scrapped the project with the tiny addendum of "Fuck you guys, I'm not writing any more SR material, even as a hobby, ever again."
-Username17
Basically, SR players en masse announced that they wanted rules for tanks that were playable but they refused to accept rules that were a major rewrite of how combat works. Despite the fact that the reason no playable tank rules exist is because the combat system as it current exists collapses utterly as soon as weapons or toughness get "kind of big".
So basically SR fandom asked me for a set of rules that was literally impossible to write and then bitched when I started making something that fulfilled the original request (playable tank rules) because it didn't stick to the impossible caveat (no change to the core combat engine). So I scrapped the project with the tiny addendum of "Fuck you guys, I'm not writing any more SR material, even as a hobby, ever again."
-Username17