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[Tome of Virtue] The Sohei

 
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Koumei
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:45 pm    Post subject: [Tome of Virtue] The Sohei Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

SOHEI

The Sohei is a bit like the Monk, but with a little more influence (in theory, at least) on being virtuous and enlightened. They also tend to use weapons and armour, but it's by no means necessary.

Note that this isn't just a description of the class I have written, it's basically what the Sohei seems to be. To be honest, they're not as well known as, say, the ninja (although at least there's less argument as to what they actually do).

As a Sohei, a good Int is not a bad idea, but what you really want is a high Wisdom, and without ignoring your physical ability scores. Although I hear there are feats that could in fact allow you to ignore your physical scores. It has the potential to get around annoying things like walls of force at later levels, and gets a free ticket into the Wish Based Economy. It probably has cool tricks for the advanced player to exploit, but I don't really see anything that stops it being available to beginners.

Spells will be forthcoming.

Hit Die: 1d10
Skill Points: 4+Int
Base Attack Bonus: Good
Saving Throws: Good Fortitude, Reflex and Will
Proficiencies: Simple Weapons, All Polearms, Light Armour, Medium Armour, Heavy Armour
Alignment: Anything they could argue as being virtuous (see: any Good)


Level:Abilities:
01Improved Unarmed Strike, Divine Flurry
02Unforeseen Strike, Virtuous Writings
03Power Slide, Speed: +10'
04Counter Attack
05Enlightenment: Perfect Understanding
06Super Gauge, Divine Go Stone Placement of Perfection
07Divine Frenzy
08Speed: +15', C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER
09Divine Perfection
10Enlightenment: Eschew Worldly Possessions, Divine Dodge
11One Hand Clapping
12Shadow Run
13Weight of Thought, Speed: +20'
14Divine Meditation
15Enlightenment: We Are All Connected
16Poetry in Motion
17Zen Fist
18Speed: +25', Formation of the Eight Trigrams
19Deadly Finishing Move
20Enlightenment: Transcendence, Secret Scroll


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Last edited by Koumei on Thu Jul 16, 2009 7:19 am; edited 6 times in total
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CatharzGodfoot
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Awesome. I think one of the big Sohei things is protecting others, so some transposition and parrying (vs. attacks directed at others) might be warranted. This fits very well with polearms.

In combat the Sohei seems to be geared towards using reach weapons and unarmed attacks to threaten within 10', which is a neat tactic.

Here are some changes I'd suggest:
  • Medium (or even heavy) armor proficiency: less monk-like, more warrior-like.
  • No spell casting: the spells don't add much anyway. However, the 'sacred writings' thing is cool, so letting them use divine scrolls (and scribe them, a bit like a runescarred berserker) might be a good idea.
  • Good will saves: a party should not have to worry that the Sohei will be dominated.
  • Counter attack only works (and does work) on attacks against allies.
  • Sacred wisdom bonus goes to +5 inherent.
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    Koumei
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    PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    Well, dropping the spell list would mean I wouldn't need to try to think of what spells would be thematic (not a fucking clue) and could focus on giving them abilities, true.

    Yeah, I could see no problem in giving them all armour proficiency. I mean, later on they get abilities that lessen the weight of armour anyway, so they should have the option of wearing it at the start.

    If they lose the spells, all good saves becomes a no-brainer. I originally wanted to give them all good saves, now I can.

    Okay, Counter Attack to protect allies isn't bad. And perhaps a few other "protect ally" tricks, such as, I don't know, being able to jump in the way before the attack roll is made (meaning the attack is resolved against them, with their own AC).

    Oh! And being able to take an AoO against allies to smack them upside the head for provoking - which denies all enemies the chance to take the AoO.

    I guess making the bonus inherent and +5 would mean it doesn't go crazy from Wishing it up on top of that.

    So a few good changes to make.
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    Koumei
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    PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    Okay, I boosted the Will save, added the proficiencies, removed spellcasting, changed a few abilities and added a few more.

    I'm not entirely sure why they get so many "Strange Mystical Monk on Mountaintop Fortune Cookie Message" abilities, but they do. Probably because I always wanted to play a character with such strange things, so now I can.
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    CatharzGodfoot
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    PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:39 pm    Post subject: Re: [Tome of Virtue] The Sohei Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    Koumei wrote:
    Enlightenment: Perfect Understanding: the Sohei reaches a plateu of enlightenment and understanding. At this stage, they can never be Confused, and always know when a person is lying. Additionally, they can see through any Illusions and can see the invisible.

    ->...can choose to automagically disbelieve illusions and can see the invisible. ("row row fight the powah" optional)

    Koumei wrote:
    Divine Frenzy: whenever someone deals damage to the Sohei, they may enter a Divine Frenzy. This lasts for as long as they have Tension, and during the effect they may act completely normally and use items normally - they can even cast spells if they have spellcasting ability from another class. The Divine Flurry gains another bonus attack, with every strike gaining +2d6 damage of any Energy Type, and the Sohei gains a +4 Sacred bonus to every ability score for the duration.

    Short duration ability boosts can be a real pain in the ass. I know, I know: anyone in her right mind will already have it calculated and on the character sheet. Realistically, however, with 99% of players that isn't going to happen and will regularly derail combat.

    Koumei wrote:
    C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER: foes are unable to make more than one attack against the Sohei during their turn, as long as the Sohei is not flat-footed. This includes spells and similar effects, as long as they are not Harmless, but does not include attacks of opportunity, as they do not take place during the foe's turn (unless they do, in which case they do count).

    Alternatively, the Sohei may apply this to any ally that they could reach with any of their equipped weapons, meaning the ally can only be attacked once per foe per turn. However the Sohei must declare this alternate use (and the target) at the beginning of their turn.

    I would actually shift this to only working against attacks on (all) allies within reach. Sorry if that makes it less of a class that you'd want to play...

    Koumei wrote:
    Enlightenment: Eshew Worldly Possessions: at this stage, the Sohei can create items worth up to 15,000 GP as per a Wish, at will, requiring only a minute of meditation. They also need not eat or drink. However they may not own material wealth in the form of precious stones and metals, relying only on their Wishes for such trivial possessions.

    Relying on 'unworldly possessions' (and being able to freely distribute them) certainly makes for a very different flavor from the monk. However, I'd change the ability as follows: "To use this ability, the Sohei must not own any currency or precious metals. Personal equipment is exempted from the restriction. This is a flavor thing, so use common sense."

    Koumei wrote:
    Furthermore, if an ally provokes an Attack of Opportunity, and is in a square the Sohei threatens, they may educate the ally in the wisdom of not provoking, by smacking them upside the head. This uses a single Attack of Opportunity but has no effect on the ally. However, no enemy may take an Attack of Opportunity against the ally for that action.

    Yes!

    Koumei wrote:
    Zen Fist: the attacks of the Sohei cannot be interrupted by Immediate Actions, readied actions or attacks of opportunity. Instead, the Sohei declares their intent (such as "to make three attacks against the Hobgoblin Warlord and three against its Dragon mount"), the dice are rolled, and no attacks are actually made. However, at the end of the turn, the targets have been attacked, just without there being a moment in time in which the attacks were made. If you are confused by this, you're not Zen enough.

    Additionally, they may elect to move as by teleporting - the journey has been made without a single footstep having fallen. Doing this, however, does not allow for Poetry in Motion.

    Probably one of the most flavorful abilities. I'd change the name to 'Zen Strike' and change the test as follows: 'If the Sohei so chooses, she may make a Zen Strike. To do this she declares and determines the results of her actions as normal on her turn, but they don't take effect until everyone else has acted in the round. When making a Zen Strike her attacks can no longer be interruptable by any effect, up to and including complete bodily destruction. A Zen Strike never provokes AoOs.<teleport stuff, poetry in motion restriction>

    Koumei wrote:
    Formation of the Eight Trigrams: whenever the Sohei uses the Divine Go Stone Placement of Perfection ability, they form a strong barrier of defence with their allies. Draw an imaginary line between every pair of allies, including the Sohei. These form Walls of Force for one round, and are filled with Acid Fog that does not affect the Sohei or their allies.

    Additionally, the Sohei and their allies gain the benefits (but not the drawbacks) of a Stoneskin effect for one round. Any foe who attacks the Sohei or any of her allies during this time but fails to deal any damage automatically becomes Exhausted for one minute.

    Jesus F. Christ. That's crazy cool.

    Koumei wrote:
    Divine Flurry: when making a Full Attack action with any weapon or combination thereof, the Sohei may make one additional attack, and all attacks are made at their highest attack bonus, however all of them take a crippling -2 penalty to hit. If every attack is directed at the same target and at least one connects, they must make a Fort save (DC 10 + half the Sohei's HD + the Sohei's Wisdom Modifier) or be Stunned for 1 round.

    Koumei wrote:
    Enlightenment: We Are All Connected: the Sohei gains an even greater understanding of life, and how hatred is a weapon we forge for others that only hurts ourselves, that the air they exhale is inhaled by their enemies, and that everything is linked together.

    Once per round as an Immediate Action, when struck in melee combat or affected by a spell, they may instead bestow the effects upon the attacker/caster. So a Finger of Death would slay the caster, and a Dominate spell would cause the caster to Dominate himself, whereas a barbarian would effectively feel their own axe in their face.

    At the start of their turn, the Sohei may instead declare that they are granting this ability to an ally instead. Additionally, any beneficial spell or effect used on the Sohei may also be applied to all allies.

    These ones I worry might be overpowered. Divine fury specifically encourages focused fire with the stun effect, so...yeah. Giving them a stun on AoO ability might be better.
    In addition, the massive damage and attack boosts from tension may prove to be too much.
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    Last edited by CatharzGodfoot on Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Koumei
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    PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    Okay...

    Perfect Understanding is reworded.

    Divine Flurry now works differently and makes them even more AoO based.

    C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER now only works on allies, making them even more of a team player and still a metric fucktonne more interesting than any "team player" class that WotC churned out.

    Eschew Worldly Possessions has been reworded, but I still spelled it wrong.

    The smack upside the head is in fact extremely Zen. Seriously, there are several koans about hitting people on the head. Also, I've been watching a lot of NCIS, so... you know.

    I reworded Zen Fist a little bit, but not as you had said. I clarified that it all takes effect at the end of their turn, as opposed to the end of the round ("end of the turn" could mean either).

    I don't actually know what the Eight Trigrams Defence Formation is. This is most unfortunate, seeing as it was largely used by Zhuge Liang Kongming (Shoukatsuryo Koumei).

    Divine Flurry now has a chance of stunning on AoOs instead of on the target of focused fire. More emphasis on the AoO angle, which can be a cool shtick for the class, sort of like the Samurai.

    We Are All Connected also has been changed. Now it shares negative conditions but doesn't reflect damage or death, and it's really good at sharing buffs - so a team with a [Class that hands buffs out], a Healer and a Sohei get a really good Christmas party every time combat is about to start.
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    FrankTrollman
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    PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    I would split out the stunning attacks of opportunity from Divine Flurry into a new power with its own name. This is because it is currently implied (though not stated and therefore presumably not intended) that you have to make a full attack flurry if you want your AoOs to stun people. I don't even know if the flurry would have to be on your last action or your next action, because AoOs usually happen when it is not your turn.

    Divine Dodge needs to be cleared up, and in any case probably needs to be changed severely. The fact is that at 2nd level most enemies have only a single attack, so the ability to move 10 feet as an immediate once per round is basically way too good at that level. But then, it also seems to provoke attacks of opportunity because it's 10 feet of movement. Either way, it doesn't do what it seems like it's supposed to do. I would suggest making it be a once/battle thing (by any of a number of resource mechanics - pick one) and make it explicitly not provoke Attacks of Opportunity when used. It would still be super good.

    Virtuous Writings should have a level cap. Probably "as if they were a Cleric of a level equal to their Sohei level." No one wants 2nd level Sohei sitting around cranking out scrolls of True Res.

    I very much appreciate that the Super Gauge can be canceled out by having other characters attack the Sohei. Good job there.

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    Koumei
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    PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    Okay, the Stunning AoO is now Unforeseen Strike, and not included in the Divine Flurry. I'm assuming I put it there because it was originally "If you unleash your whole Flurry on someone they get Save-or-Stunned", and then I dropped that in favour of the AoOs...

    Divine Dodge is now gained later on, explicitly does not provoke, and is also 1/minute, however the Sohei can perform it additional times by spending Tension. And it just occurred to me that it's a good thing C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER doesn't apply to the Sohei herself, because they want to get plenty of Tension.

    Anyway, I feel at this level, it's no longer super good but it's certainly beneficial.

    Virtuous Writings does now have that cap. I hadn't considered that they could otherwise crank out any scrolls.

    And yes, I remember the many, many debates on Super Gauges, bags of rats and everything. This one not only means they can't charge up on enemy A and unleash on enemy B, it also means clever enemies might want to formulate teamwork in the style of "take turns hitting the Sohei!"

    And I really hope someone plays a Sohei with a scythe, and shouts "GURAIVE DIGGAH!" when using Tension attacks.
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    CatharzGodfoot
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    PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    Koumei wrote:
    And I really hope someone plays a Sohei with a scythe, and shouts "GURAIVE DIGGAH!" when using Tension attacks.


    OK, the iconic Sohei is an enchanted monster truck.

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    Mask_De_H
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    PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    Koumei wrote:


    And I really hope someone plays a Sohei with a scythe, and shouts "GURAIVE DIGGAH!" when using Tension attacks.


    What about a duo of Soheis, one with a Flaming Burst sword and one with a Thundering Shocking Burst Rapier, and both with a lot of unresolved sexual tension.
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    PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    Koumei wrote:
    And it just occurred to me that it's a good thing C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER doesn't apply to the Sohei herself, because they want to get plenty of Tension.


    Yeah, I thought it was weird earlier, since it limits tension/round to the number of attacks they can make +1. That works much better, and also serves to direct attacks at the Sohei.

    There's still some weirdness about it though. Can you be a bit more clear on what you mean by "must be able to reach" in the range of the ability? Does it count if I can reach them with a couple hours jog, reach them as a move action, or do they have to be within arm's reach or the reach of the Sohei's weapon? I think you want it to be any allies within the Sohei's threatened area, and it might just be easier to say that.

    And since you want people to only be affected by one area spell per foe per round, you may want to state that extremely clearly as well. It's slightly bizarre that the Sohei could be quick fireballed by the same guy a few times, but it would only affect his in range allies once. If that's the intent it should be really really clear.
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    Koumei
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    PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    Thanks guys, it's good to get the wording clear.

    I fixed up the threatening bit, one case of allies (to make it clear the walls of force don't extend back to your base because you left a friend there) and some clarification on how multi-target attacks fail with C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER.

    Should they have the option of not gaining Tension against a foe so that they can retain their Tension for an existing one? This means that the big bad guy can't release a series of attacks and then have a minion poke her to clear the Tension. This could be a good or bad thing, depending on what you think it should be able to do. Either way, it still won't let the Sohei chain Tension off multiple people to unleash one big wave of death.
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    PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    Sorry Koumei, it's clear now, but I'm not down with it. If I quicken disintegrate a protected dude, and then fall back to an area spell that targets that guy and a bunch of either 1) unprotected guys, or 2) protected but not previously hit by me guys the entire spell fails? I could see protecting the 1st guy, but protecting all of them strikes me as a bit overdone. It extends the Sohei's range in weird ways, and lets the standard cluster double or triple in radius after a hit or two.

    As for not gaining tension, I'm kinda meh on the idea. As is, they function rather like the Knight; they're good at pulling hits because the threat of them not is decent and you don't have a lot of choice. If you give them the ability to ignore some of those extra hits, then enemies may decide to ignore them in favor of other tactics. If you want them more defenderish, you shouldn't do it, and for the tome of virtue I'd say we want them more defender. YMMV.
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    PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    Re: Tension, that's sort of what I was thinking. As it is, they pair nicely with the Knight - if you go for the Knight, you get bounced about by the Sohei on your own turn (and can only hurt the Knight once), if you go for the Sohei it powers up the Tension and the Knight then smacks you for a million damage as well. So I'll leave it as is unless someone has a compelling reason not to.

    I changed C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER. On the one hand, it's kind of weird for only one guy to randomly be immune (or multiple people, if the enemy made a few attacks already), but it does represent the Sohei distracting the enemy and/or parrying for their allies, so it can just be described as "The Ogre Mage swings its fists, punching Billy and Bob in the face. It then launches a ball of flame, but Sosumi whirls her naginata, catching the flames at either end and spinning them so as to spare her friends from scorching doom. Sadly, so caught up in protecting her friends is she, that she gets a face full of fire herself."
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    PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    I was with you on the spinning naginata defending everyone in range after the first hit, and that covers it nicely. Thanks Koumei.
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    PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    You should probably say on the C-C-C-COMBO Breaker that it caculates each opponent separately. Also you should specify how it treats improved grab and secondary poison because I can't tell.

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    PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    Done and done. We'll eventually have this thing making sense.
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    PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    I just want to say thank you. I am rebuilding my samurai/monk/curator into a sohei/enlightened disciple. This works much better than the somewhat awkward multiclass I had before.
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    Koumei
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    PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    You're welcome. Let me know how it plays out.
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    Aktariel
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    PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 4:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    Is this done? I'd like to include it in the PDF.
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    PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    Sure is.
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