Race: Giantkin

[IGTN]

Something I whipped up, inspired by the various Large Size fighter builds.

Giantkin:
Giantkin are the degenerate descendants of giants, reduced to the size of large mortals, who they live among and intermarry with. Their physical traits vary according to both sides of their ancestry; those descended from frost giants tend to be pale and silver-haired, fire giants give ashen skin and red hair, stone giants give gray skin and thin hair, and so on, but all of their skins are brought more toward shades of tan by their mortal heritage. Giantkin of mixed heritage on the giant side are common, and tend to slightly favor one over the other.

Because of the diversity of Giantkind, Giantkin themselves have a large diversity in their abilities, being equally likely to pursue magic or physical prowess.

Paradoxically, the greatest Giantkin heroes actually grow to be larger than the true giants from whom they are descended. Sages speculate as to why this is. A popular theory is that their weaker nature gives them more to strive for, while another argues that it is their mixed blood and a simple case of hybrid vigor.

Giantkin have the following racial traits:

• Medium Size Giantkin males average 6'8" and 230 pounds, and females average 6'4" and 205 pounds.
• 30' Movement
• Humanoid Type
• Giant Blooded: Giantkin count as Giants for all effects relating to race or type, in addition to being humanoids.
• Low-light Vision
• +2 Strength, -2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution
• Rock Throwing Giantkin have their giant ancestors' talent for throwing rocks. This allows them to throw appropriately-sized rocks for 1d6 damage at a 40' range increment, or two-handed rocks for 1d8 damage at the same increment. This range increment increases 20' for every step of size increase, and damage increases normally at increased size. They also gain +1 to hit with all thrown weapons, and +10' to the range increment of all thrown weapons except for their rocks.
• +2 to Constitution checks to survive weather, exhaustion, starvation, or thirst.
• -2 penalty to Sense Motive checks. Giantkin are trusting around each other, and this extends to outsiders even if they don't deserve it.
• Favored Class: Knight and Elementalist
• Automatic Languages: Common
• Bonus Languages: Auran, Draconic, Dwarven, Giant, Goblin, Ignan, Orc, Sylvan, Terran
• Feat Qualifications: Giantkin count as Fiends for purposes of taking the Large Size and Huge Size feats. They do not count as Fiends for any other purpose, nor do they gain Fiendish Taint for taking those feats.

Giantkin Paragon:
Hit Die: d10
Good Saves: Fortitude, Will
Base Attack Bonus: Good (Fighter)
Skills: Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Arcana, Nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str)
Skill Points/Level: 2 + Int Mod

Level, Abilities:
1 Giant Heritage, Improved Rock Throwing
2 Large Size
3 Huge Size, Rock Catching

Giant Heritage: The Giantkin Paragon's type changes to Giant. They still count as a humanoid for purposes of targeting as long as they are willing.
Improved Rock Throwing: The Giantkin Paragon's one-handed throwing rocks do 1d8 damage at medium size, and their two-handed throwing rocks do 2d6 damage at medium size. Further, their rock throwing range increment increases to 60' + 30' per size above Medium.

Large Size: The Giantkin Paragon gains Large Size as a bonus feat if they qualify. If they don't, they gain Large Size as soon as they do. If they already have Large Size or are permanently large from some other non-stacking source, they gain any feat they qualify for instead.

Huge Size: The Giantkin Paragon gains Huge Size as a bonus feat if they qualify. If they don't, they gain Huge Size as soon as they do. If they already have Huge Size or are permanently huge from some other source, they gain any feat they qualify for instead.

Rock Catching: A Giantkin Paragon gains Rock Catching at 3rd class level. This behaves exactly as the Giant ability.

Giantkin also often progress into the Big Nob, Ogre-Mage, and Meteor Ninja classes.

[ubernoob]

Maybe a mite bit strong. Removing anything would probably make it too weak though.

[IGTN]

Maybe a mite bit strong. Removing anything would probably make it too weak though.

Sounds like it needs a trivial penalty, then, or something could be toned down.

[ubernoob]

Maybe a mite bit strong. Removing anything would probably make it too weak though.

Sounds like it needs a trivial penalty, then, or something could be toned down.

I'd go with the trivial penalty. I can't imagine toning anything down really.

[IGTN]

Alright. Maybe make them easier to trip by -1 or -2? Or deny them the AoO from a failed trip?

Or they could take a trivial penalty to some skill. Maybe Bluff or something. Could also do Move Silently, but that's a skill people care about, and I don't want to make their job as a Meteor Ninja harder.

Also, I'm not entirely sure about their Favored Classes. I don't want to do Barbarian since there already are plenty of savage big types (Ogres, for one), but Knight doesn't exactly fit either (but it's better than Samurai). I already substituted Elementalist in for Sorcerer once I remembered the class, so I'm pretty happy with that end (Fire, Frost, Stone, Cloud, and Storm giants are pretty in-theme).

[ubernoob]

Alright. Maybe make them easier to trip by -1 or -2? Or deny them the AoO from a failed trip?

Or they could take a trivial penalty to some skill. Maybe Bluff or something. Could also do Move Silently, but that's a skill people care about, and I don't want to make their job as a Meteor Ninja harder.

I say sense motive. From a purely whimsical point of view.

Also, I'm not entirely sure about their Favored Classes. I don't want to do Barbarian since there already are plenty of savage big types (Ogres, for one), but Knight doesn't exactly fit either (but it's better than Samurai). I already substituted Elementalist in for Sorcerer once I remembered the class, so I'm pretty happy with that end (Fire, Frost, Stone, Cloud, and Storm giants are pretty in-theme).

Barbarian is a better fit than fighter though.

[Judging__Eagle]

That's pretty cool, and easier to fit into a game than an Ogre.

Barbarian was a better fit than Fighter. Knight is a good substitute.

Ogres should be rogues, not barbarians.

[CatharzGodfoot]

[*]Humanoid Type

You might as well give them 'giant blooded'.

[*]Darkvision 60'

Giants have low light vision by default, not darkvision. IMO, low light vision makes more sense if you give them any vision benefits at all.

[*]Rock Throwing Giantkin have their giant ancestors' talent for throwing rocks. This allows them to throw appropriately-sized rocks for 1d6 damage at a 40' range increment, or two-handed rocks for 1d8 damage at the same increment. This range increment increases 20' for every step of size increase, and damage increases normally at increased size. They also gain +1 to hit with all thrown weapons, and double range increment on all thrown weapons except for their rocks.

Rock throwing is cool, but I don't see the need to make them expert dagger (or flask!) throwers. I'd drop the bonus to hit and the doubled range.

[*]+2 to the DC to bull rush, grab, or pin a Giantkin.

This should be taken care of well enough by the bonus to strength and the later size increases.

[*]Automatic Languages: Common and Giant

I know it doesn't follow the standard, but I don't think that they should automatically speak Giant. It's a cultural thing, and they are probably much more human in culture than giant.

[*]Feat Qualifications: Giantkin count as Fiends for purposes of taking the Large Size and Huge Size feats. They do not count as Fiends for any other purpose, nor do they gain Fiendish Taint for taking them.

Fiend/Monstrous feats really need an overhaul.

[IGTN]

Giant Blooded: Right, I forgot that existed when I was doing this write-up.

Low-light vision: Oh, hey, so they do. Making the change.

Rock Throwing: The bonus to hit is to make up for their DEX penalty; it's a net zero unless they take Zen Archery. The range increase is there because giants have enormous ranges on their thrown rocks; I can see the justification for taking it out or toning it down, though. On the other hand, it's not like a 20' range increment with your daggers or flasks is going to do much. Really, the longest range increment on a thrown weapon is 30 feet (Javelin). I'm leaving it until I decide what to do (advice welcome).

E: Decided on an initial nerf: It's down to +10' to the range increment. No change with daggers or flasks, but Javelins and suchlike aren't ridiculous. I'm not particularly worried about Giantkin Flask Rogues; they're not really benefiting from the Giantkin STR bonus, and they've got a hard range cap that this ability doesn't help with.

Difficult to push around: (E: I see your point there. I was half-considering giving them Powerful Build, but I didn't want to give out the good parts of it. Off it goes, then.)

Languages: I can see you're point there; I'll make that change.

Feats: Yes, they do need an overhaul. But that overhaul isn't actually done yet, so there's nothing I can do inside the scope of this project.

On favored classes:
The most powerful giants seem to be exempt from the general tendency to be Barbarians that Giants have. The three most mentioned classes in the Giant write-up in the MM are Cleric, mentioned in Cloud, Fire, Frost, and Storm giants, followed by Barbarian (Frost, Hill, and Stone) and Sorcerer (Cloud, Frost, and Storm). Also these Giantkin aren't giants; they don't have their strength, and so they have to band together or join existing societies, and they've found that they work well with ordered societies, so even their loners take after the society in some aspects. Also, I don't see these Giantkin as a big and brutish race, which giving them Barbarian as a favored class seems to imply; they're just big. That said, these Giantkin aren't as likely to be riders (well, maybe a dragon or a Roc.), which is one of the Knight's things.