[Tome of Trees] No seriously, just fluff.

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Kaelik
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[Tome of Trees] No seriously, just fluff.

Post by Kaelik »

The Plantinomicon: Stuff That Isn't Supposed to Move, But Does
"What happens if I burn the forest down?" "Trust me, you don't want to find out."

D&D is magical universe full of Magic. And the Nature is always alive. No, not just the animate plants, Gaia will kick you in the nads. Every forest is Lothlorian or Fanghorn to some extent, because it is all modeled off the Black Forest, and we want our forest to be alive.

The same holds true of mountains, deserts, tundra, and anything else.

Biology

Things are creatures, or they are objects. And all plants are creatures. That means all plants, even trees, even roots, have wisdom and charisma scores. But plants and animals are all part of nature. And nature is gaia, and therefore, it's all one big network, sort of.

Creature types are Kinds. Yes we hate creationists too, but D&D is created, and so every plant is descended from the same plant spore that was created totally separately than the animal spore and the humanoid spore. And how do these things work? Lamarkian descent. When a Plant gets lots of sunlight, it becomes more like a tree, and passes that on. When a Plant gets uprooted a lot, it disperses it seed before it dies, and those plants can move.

This same rule applies to all other D&D creatures except constructs, undead, and vermin. So this removes some of the "A Wizard Did It" from D&D, but not all, because a Wizard still did Vermin and undead and constructs. The Owlbear is totally a Bear that needed night vision, and to break tortoise shells or something. The Owl look is conicidental.

Plants

Plants mostly just sit around chilling in their total conscience. They are the origional pot heads, because their heads are sometimes literally made of pot. Most Plants have no Int score and just sit around waiting. This does not mean that they can't do anything, or won't. Undead (Some kinds) follow their nature by destroying life, and Plants follow their nature by chilling and relaxing all cool. When you enter a forest, it doesn't bother you until you bother it. But plants do have this pogram. It's called growing everywhere. If you start chopping or burning, they just grow back over it, and expand a little bit. But if you start limiting growth, they start creating Shambling mounds and Treants until you get the picture.

So the natural state of Plant/Humanoid interactions is not a coexistence. It's a cyclical struggle. The Trees keep encrouging on the city/town/fields, and you keep chopping them down. Eventually, they keep growing back so fast and closer and closer so you have to burn large chunks down, and that's when things get nasty. When you start attacking plants, they become plants that attack back. And then the Adventurerers are called in to put down the mean trees so you can burn the forest back a lot. When you do this, all the remaining trees are assholes. At this point, You have concentrated asshole enviroments, which for some reason everyone thinks is guarding treasure.

And since this is D&D, they are. Asshole Forests are ones reduced to their core, and the Core of every forest is built on magical Gaia energy. And that Energy is totally a welling of awesome that can be harvested. Gaia energy is totally not used as a currency by anyone, mostly because fey will attack you on site for that shit, and it doesn't work outside the material plane. But it can be used as components for crafting items in the Wish economy level.

Nature That Isn't Plants

So what about the Frostfell and the Sandstorm and the Sotrmwrack? Gaia. She's a whore, and she'll do anyone. Tundra and Desert are legitamate vessels for Gaia energy that follow the same pattern. Deserts make everything hotter, and Tundras make everything colder, and both of those try to grow the same as plants. But basically, when you want to fight them, you do it with Fire and Water, and then you have to call the adventurers to come kill the monsters that are created to eat you for bringing fire and water.

Adventuring in the Wilderness
"Why am I so hungry, it's only been like, five minutes?"

Adventurers eat a lot. But you seriously never have to care about that again past level 7. So let's face it. Spells and immunities and shit make adventuring in the wilderness a lot like adventuring in a city that happens to have really annoying citzens who want to eat you past level 7.

So rules for these sort of things are going to be simple, but awesome.

1) Tempature. Hot enviroments make you hotter. You take fire damage in a desert. Use Sandstorm rules if you have them. They don't suck. Otherwise, use very little fire damage ticking very rarely to make your point. FR 5 should save you from the most horrible natural desert.

Cold stuff does cold damage. Use Frostburn, doesn't suck. Same generalization as above.

2) Thirst, Hunger, and sleep. The average adventurer needs 8 hours of sleep, two meals a day, and water every 4 hours to be at full condition.

If you miss a meal or water period, or get only 4 hours of sleep, you must make a DC 10 Fort save. For every succeeding period you miss after making the save make another save at +2 DC. If you fail the save, it resets.

If you get no sleep, the DC is 15. Each successive missed sleep period is at +2 to DC. The DC does not increase if you sleep four hours, but you must still make a save.

If you fail any of these saves, you immediately become fatigued. If you are fatigued and fail a save, you become exhausted. If you are exhausted and fail a save, you die. Tough shit.

To cure your fatigue or Exhaustion from food or water, you need only eat two full meals in the same day, or drink enough water for a day. For sleep, you need to sleep for 12 hours.

This Fatigue and Exhaustion is cured by spells or items that do so. And the DCs reset when it is done so.

3) Wandering around and getting lost.

PHB/DMG rules are pretty good for this. DC 20 Survival to locate north, find a map.

Poison and Disease
"Stay away from it's claws. And it's Mouth. And really, just yeah..."

Poison is way to expensive and sucks. This is largely fixed by the Book of Gears once the Wish economy sets in. But in the meantime...

Poison: Poison is hard to find and annoying to have, but it's cheap. Cut all Poison prices by a fourth. Poison DCs scale based on amount, Using two doses increases the DC by 2, but takes two actions to apply. This caps at 5 doses, after that extra poison is useless. Poisons still do what they do.

Disease: Diseases are not slow acting constant poisons. That's bullshit. Diseases need to be something else. Suggestions are welcome.
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Re: [Tome of Trees] No seriously, just fluff.

Post by Quantumboost »

Kaelik wrote:Things are creatures, or they are objects. And all plants are creatures. That means all plants, even trees, even roots, have wisdom and charisma scores. But plants and animals are all part of nature. And nature is gaia, and therefore, it's all one big network, sort of.
If it's what you mean, this really, really, really, should specify that things are "creatures, or they are objects, but nothing is both creature and object." Alternatively, explicitly allow them to be both. That should be explicit either way you go.
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Re: [Tome of Trees] No seriously, just fluff.

Post by Kaelik »

Quantumboost wrote:
Kaelik wrote:Things are creatures, or they are objects. And all plants are creatures. That means all plants, even trees, even roots, have wisdom and charisma scores. But plants and animals are all part of nature. And nature is gaia, and therefore, it's all one big network, sort of.
If it's what you mean, this really, really, really, should specify that things are "creatures, or they are objects, but nothing is both creature and object." Alternatively, explicitly allow them to be both. That should be explicit either way you go.
It was a description, but not a statement describing the actual rules.

I was merely speaking colloquially about creatures vs objects, since Constructs/Vermin/Undead are technically all creatures, not objects, but are objects for the purposes of my "things subject to lamarckian evolution" vs "Things not subject to it".
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Post by IGTN »

Nice. I was planning to write up something like this eventually.

I see you made common plants into creatures, instead of living objects, now, right?

Your explanation isn't adequate for why Gaia Energy isn't traded. Everyone will try to kill you for your planar currency no matter what it is. If you have Raw Chaos, you have enemies who want to kill you to take it, since it's just that good.

Also, what's the effect on a wilderness of stealing its Gaia Energy?
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Post by Judging__Eagle »

Probably more plant monsters, and stuff a la Wayfarer's Moon.

btw Kaelik, this looks really good. Really good.

I want to see what you think a Ranger, Druid, Ent and Houmyn[whatever] (the animated trees that the Ents led to Helm's Deep) should look like.
Last edited by Judging__Eagle on Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by TarkisFlux »

On diseases... it really depends on how far you want to take them away from the current standard. I could see diseases ranging from a flu where you're fatigued all day (and it comes back in a few hours if you remove it) to a consumption disease where you take stat damage daily (like most are now) to a disease that only strikes when you're expending serious effort on other things and wearing yourself down (like a confusion effect that only strikes on the 4th round of combat, and hits every combat for as long as you're afflicted with it). Some of these are worth including in a game where Remove Disease fixes everything and some aren't, so unless you want to make a bunch of special new diseases that require a certain caster level or otherwise alter Remove Disease, I don't know what to suggest for where to go with them.
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Post by Blicero »

If we want to possibly make diseases be meaningful after level 7, we could invent a bunch of hardcore epic often supernatural diseases and give them caster level-like values or something. Then Remove Disease could be rewritten to maybe work in a manner similar to that of Dispel Magic or something.

(I mean, no one wants to see your level 13 wizard stuck in bed for a couple of days with the flu, but I could get behind an idea where he could contract Mind Rot from staying in the Barrens of Emptiness for longer than he should have, or getting Weeping Flesh from living with Carnage Demons for a couple of weeks.)
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Post by Judging__Eagle »

Oh.... Frank had a write up for a Disease system.

It was something like Diseases had two stats. A Potency; and a Duration. Then damage, or an escalating effect.

For the Duration of the disease, you had to take tests against the Potency score. If you succeeded, you didn't suffer the escalating effect, or damage. If you failed, you took the effect/damage.

Eventually, if the disease doesn't kill you, you end up being able to recover from the damage, since the disease has run its course through you once the Duration is over.

With a system like that, you could have almost any disease possible. The "escalating effects" could be things like the stages that a disease goes through; and then "poof" a radiation build-up over months causes cancer that kills a character.

Cancer

"0.1% of all people autopsied had been diagnosed with cancer of the Thyroid. However, 99.99% of those autopsied revealed that they actually had micro-cancers in their Thyroids."

You've got it, I've got it, we've all bloody got it. Cancer. Little rogue cells that have gone mad, are taking your resources, and are consuming and replacing your productive cells to expand their own useless bulks.

It is assumed that everyone has it; certain things on
  • and
    • affect your Potency Roll; and your Duration Roll is meant to determine how often the character needs to check.

      Duration: "Until put into remission; every X years; reduce by half for every two failed Disease Checks in a row. Once put into remission, the creature's base Cancer rate is reset to every X years; but every 6 months for their Cancers that were put into remission, from the date that they were put into remission."
      Potency: "1; Increase by +1 for everything relevant to the creature making the roll on
      • ; and -1 for everything on
        • "
          Damage Levels: Please refer to the [Cancer Diagnosis] table

          =====


          Then you write up a massive list for all of that.

          Of course, that's cancer.

          Usually you want stuff like Mummy Rot, or Beaver Fever.

          Beaver Fever

          "Uggghhhh..... where's the latrine?"

          Duration: 7 Days; Test each day

          Potency: Fort 15 to avoid Damage. Fort 10 to keep from making a mess for a number of rounds equal to your Con score; Fort 15 for minutes equal to your Con Score. Roll for rounds, if you roll over, you can attempt for minutes. You can always keep yourself from making a mess for your Con modifier in Rounds, no matter what, if you have a negative Con modifier, you instead have 0 rounds, and make a mess immediately.

          Damage: If you fail, you're stuck being sick, and going to the bathroom more often than normal. One hour after you eat, and every three hours otherwise, check to see if you have to go to the bathroom. If you have not eaten for 12 hours, you do not need to check for damage, unless you eat a meal (anything more than a slice of bread or piece of fruit and a cup of juice, water, tea).

          Every day you spend in the bathroom, you take a 10% reduction to HP, and max Weight Capacity; to a minimum of 50%. You also take Dehydration damage after your second day Sick, if you do not consume extra amounts of liquid. You are Fatigued after spending two days sick, and Exhausted after three days sick.

          =======

          That's... not an accurate description of Beaver Fever, it's more the runs than anything else. However, I wanted to show that you can easily put in all sorts of "disease-like" things into a Disease system.

          Ideally.. you'll have a few base templates, or even have the Diseases "be" creatures.

          So, Rhinovirus (colds); Influenza (flu); etc. (etc.) are all 'common' diseases; and other diseases will make reference to one of a few other basic say... 5 diseases, and then put in a twist, or two.
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Post by Midnight_v »

This is some really good stuff....

Hmm... maybe we could get some crunch to go with this. I'd like to but I know shit about fey ... except that they might totally go all "Night of the Triffids" if pushed to far.

Which is really a great campaign seed.
Ancient force of nature wakes up/Asshole Greenpeace guy ascends, Nature goes on rampage. Survive.
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Post by koz »

Midnight_v wrote:This is some really good stuff....

Hmm... maybe we could get some crunch to go with this. I'd like to but I know shit about fey ... except that they might totally go all "Night of the Triffids" if pushed to far.

Which is really a great campaign seed.
Ancient force of nature wakes up/Asshole Greenpeace guy ascends, Nature goes on rampage. Survive.
Truth be told, so do WotC. Fey are basically all kinds of things taken from all kinds of legends, ranging from nymphs to redcaps and everything in between. If you really wanted to write some fey stuff up, it wouldn't even be very hard. I mean, I'll do one right now.

Redcap

Fey type

Small size

Land speed 30ft

Low-light vision

+1 natural armour

+2 Wisdom, +2 Charisma

Redcap Class [Monster Class]

BAB: Poor
Saves: Fort poor, Ref good, Will good
Hit points per level: 4 + Con mod
Class Skills: Bluff, Hide, Intimidate, Knowledge (any two, chosen at 1st level), Listen, Move Silently, Search, Spot, Survival, Tumble, Use Rope
Skill Points per Level: 6 +Int mod (x4 at 1st level)

1: Eldritch Weaponry, Powerful Build
2: Physical Boost, DR 5/cold iron
3: Natural Armour Boost, Hit Point Boost
4: Natural Armour Boost, Physical Boost
5: Natural Armour Boost, Hit Point Boost
6: DR 10/cold iron, Physical Boost
7: Natural Armour Boost, Hit Point Boost
8: Natural Armour Boost, Physical Boost
9: Natural Armour Boost, Hit Point Boost
10: DR 15/cold iron, Physical Boost
11: Natural Armour Boost, Hit Point Boost
12: Natural Armour Boost, Physical Boost

Class features

Weapon and Armour Proficiency: A redcap is proficient with simple weapons, plus one other weapon of its choice. It is not proficient with any armours or shields.

Eldritch(Su): Redcaps wield the power of the fey. Any weapon wielded by a redcap has an enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls equal to the redcap's CR/3, and the redcap receives an enhancement bonus to all saves equal to the redcap's CR/3 (both always round up).

Powerful Build (Ex): Redcaps are much stronger than they look. For all purposes where it would be advantageous, a redcap is considered to be Medium. However, if it would be advantageous for the redcap to be considered Small, it is.

Physical Boost (Ex): Redcaps become stronger, faster and tougher as they grow. Starting at 2nd level, and every even-numbered level after that, a redcap gains +2 to all physical stats (Strength, Dexterity, Constitution).

DR X/cold iron (Ex): Redcaps, like all fey, fear the touch of manufacture and progress. At 2nd level, a redcap receives DR 5/cold iron. Every 4 class levels after that, this increases by 5.

Hit Point Boost: Redcaps are tougher than they look. Starting at 3rd level, and every odd-numbered level thereafter, a redcap gains an extra 4 + Con modifier hit points. If a redcap's Constitution modifier improves subsequently, apply it to hit points gained from this ability retroactively.

Fey Phantasmist [Monster Prestige Class]

The fey are unrivalled masters of illusions and deception. A few of them go even further than this, seeking to become all the stronger in this, fighting their enemies by confusing them and making it impossible for them to fight what is really there.

Prerequisites

Type: Must be fey
Skills: Hide 8 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 3 ranks
Spells: Must be able to cast an [Illusion] spell or use an [Illusion] spell-like ability of at least 3rd level
Special: Must live for a year and a day among the fey in the Otherworld

BAB: See advancement
Saves: See advancement
Hit points per level: See advancement
Skills: See advancement, plus Knowledge (arcana)
Skill points per level: See advancement

1: Advancement, Sphere (Illusion, advanced access)
2: Chains of Disbelief
3: Sphere (Illusion, expert access)
4: Hide In Illusion
5: Learn the Illusory

Class Features

Advancement: When you take the first level of this prestige class, select a single monster base class that you have at least one level in. The fey phantasmist has BAB, hit points, skills and skill points identical to that class, with an additional class skill (Knowledge [arcana]).

Furthermore, for the purposes of acquiring any 'boost' class features, your levels in your chosen class and this prestige class stack.

Sphere (Illusion): At 1st level, you gain advanced access to the Illusion sphere. This upgrades to expert access at 3rd level.

Chains of Disbelief (Ex): From 2nd level, even if a viewer disbelieves an illusion created by you and communicates the details of the illusion to other creatures, those other creatures do not receive the normal +4 bonus on their saving throws to disbelieve the illusion. Additionally, your illusions last twice as long as normal.

Hide In Illusion (Ex): At 4th level, you gain hide in plain sight, but it can only be used in the area of an [Illusion] effect.

Learn the Illusory: At 5th level, choose a sorcerer or wizard illusion spell of a level no greater than your CR/2, rounded down. You may use this spell as a spell-like ability 3/day.

See, not so hard, is it?

EDIT: Need to post that sphere.

Illusion [Arcane]

Effect: An individual with this sphere becomes focused on disguising the true nature of things, including himself.

1: Disguise Self
3: Invisibility
5: Displacement
7: Greater Invisibility
9: Word of Blinding*
11: Programmed Image
13: Word of Catatonia*
15: Mass Invisibility (can be used as a swift action)
17: Phantasmagorical Image*
19: Word of Blinding (can be used as an immediate action)

Phantasmagorical Image
Illusion [Image, Mind-Affecting]
Level: 9
Class: Bard, Sorcerer/Wizard
Sphere: Illusion, Snake
Components: V, S
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Long
Area: 100ft radius cylinder
Duration: 1 hour/level (D) and 1 round/level (see text)
Save: Will disbelief and None (see text)

This spell functions like persistent image, except as described above. Additionally, the spell is extremely hostile to those who would disbelieve it. Anyone who successfully disbelieves an illusion created by this spell becomes insane, as per the insanity spell, for 1 round per caster level.

Word of Blinding
Illusion [Mind-Affecting]
Level: 5
Class: Sor/Wiz
Sphere: Snake
Components: V
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Close
Target: One creature
Duration: See text
Save: None
SR: Yes

You cause a single creature become blind, whether it can hear the Word or not. If the creature's CR is 2 points or more below your caster level, the duration is permanent; if its CR is equal to your caster level or 1 point lower, 1d4+1 minutes; if its CR is 1 or 2 points higher than your caster level, 1d4+1 rounds. Creatures whose CR is more than 2 points above your caster level are not affected.

Word of Catatonia
Illusion [Mind-Affecting, Phantasm]
Level: 7
Class: Bard, Sorcerer/Wizard
Sphere: Snake
Components: V
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Close
Target: One creature or one or more creatures within a 15ft radius sphere
Duration: Instantaneous
Save: None
SR: Yes

You can use this spell in one of two ways; either focusing the effects of the Word on one target, or distributing it over several. Regardless of which option is chosen, the effects take place whether the target or targets can hear the Word or not.

Single-Target

You cause a single creature to lose sensory contact with the outside world. The subject’s senses are all completely fabricated from within its own mind, though it may not realize this. In reality, the subject sprawls limply, drooling and mewling, and eventually dies of thirst and starvation without care. The subject lives within its own made-up world until the time of its actual death. If the creature's CR is greater than your caster level, this spell has no effect.

Multiple-Target

If the Word is used to affect an area, it sends all affected creatures into a shared catatonia (the world is a construct, but within the world, the victims can interact with each other), as per the single-target option above. Any creature with a CR greater than your caster level-3 is not affected.

Removing creatures from the state induced by this Word requires a greater restoration, limited wish, wish or miracle spell.

And, because I reference them a lot...

[Image] and [Phantasm]

Spells with these components alter the senses of those who are subject to them by making them perceive something which is not the case. Whether this is a totally new object or a change, spells with these descriptions carry one of these descriptors.

An [Image] effect creates something which is perceptible by anyone who views (or hears, or smells, etc) the effect and is capable of processing this perception. [Image] effects cannot generate intelligible speech unless the spell description says it can, and any speech they generate must be in a language that the caster speaks, or the result is simply gibberish. Additionally, any effect that you generate must be one that is familiar to you, and will be dependent on your subjective perceptions of it, which may cause it to possess additional mentally-imposed traits or highlighting of traits that a 'natural' object of this type may not (it is in fact this phenomenon that allows others to detect these effects as not genuine upon close scrutiny).

A [Phantasm] effect creates something which is only perceivable to the caster and the intended target or targets. It is a purely sensory effect between the target and the caster, and third parties do not perceive anything where this effect should be. Almost all [Phantasm] effects are also [Mind-Affecting].

Creatures that encounter either of these effects do not usually receive a save to recognise it as illusory (usually a Will disbelief save, which represents the target's senses attempting to make sense of something which makes none) unless they study it carefully or interact with it in some fashion that would yield results that are not typical to the object in question. 'Studying carefully' requires thorough scrutiny, and thus a casual glance, a few seconds of listening or something similar are not sufficient, whereas a thorough search and probing, or detailed listening for at least ten seconds or something similar would allow a save if the target had reason to suspect something. At the same time, most individuals do not expect their senses to lead them wrong, and quite frequently, a wall comprised of fire may actually be a wall of fire, and very few individuals would risk actually checking such a fact. Only highly paranoid, aware or intelligent individuals, or those who understand that they may face illusions should even be allowed to examine such effects to determine their veracity.

A successful save shows that the effect is false, but an outline of the effect remains. A failed save indicates that the individual has completely succumbed to the illusion, and will continue to insist that it is real. Future saves are not allowed. A creature who has disbelieved an [Image] effect can communicate this disbelief to others, granting them a +4 bonus on their saves (assuming they receive them). If other creatures understand that a creature is the subject of a [Phantasm] spell, they can communicate that this is not real to them, allowing them a +4 bonus on their saves. A creature that receives personal, incontrovertible proof that such an effect is not what it seems to be, after the normal save for disbelief (and the circumstances surrounding it), is allowed an additional save. If this is also failed, the individual in question has rationalized it so thoroughly that they insist the effect is real no matter what.

Right, now back to fixing 4E....
Last edited by koz on Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Midnight_v »

Cool... well then the tome of trees is underway.
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Post by MGuy »

I'd say go with what seems natural (yea I went there). Things like nymphs, pixies, elves all those iconic forest dwellers.
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Post by koz »

Midnight_v wrote:Cool... well then the tome of trees is underway.
You seem to have a rather optimistic view of my production schedule, M_v. :razz:

In all seriousness, that was just a 'see, you can do it too!' type of post.
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Post by Midnight_v »

No. I followed that point, I was saying essentially since "you can do it too". I'd go ahead and get to work. Thanks.
Still I'd need to research the fey I think I'd need a bit more info to fluff them appropriately.
Don't hate the world you see, create the world you want....
Dear Midnight, you have actually made me sad. I took a day off of posting yesterday because of actual sadness you made me feel in my heart for you.
...If only you'd have stopped forever...
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