I'd like help from some fellow languaphiles

[Dean]

Hello language enthusiasts and other propagandists for the written and spoken word. I would like some help from you all to come up with some new words with me.

Here's my dilemma:

I think bisexual sucks as a term. Especially for women nowadays with whom bisexuality is becoming vastly less taboo and more open and accepted as part of the common cultural zeitgeist. See the problem is that you could very very easily take three random men or women who all identify themselves as bisexual and, when comparing their sexual attitudes, find that none of them have similar sexual outlooks and desires. So lets say you have three women:

-Woman one is primarily sexually interested in men, but is secondarily interested in women. She will generally desire to be in a relationship with a man but will still find sexual attraction to women. She is "Bisexual"

-Woman two is egalitarian in her sexual interests across both sexes (and maybe more depending on how you view transgenders as part of the male-female "binary") She will have sex with, and engage in relationships with, both men and women. And any particular preference she has is minimal and alters through time based on relationships. This woman is "Bisexual"

-Woman three is essentially gay. She prefers relationships with women and has a history of them. However she does have some sexual attraction to men still. This usually results in her occasionally "hooking up" with men between relationships that she primarily has with women. This woman is "Bisexual"

That term sucks. These people are not the same and are not even really terribly similar. And I'm certain that male groups are also more spread out than a single term accomplishes.

So what I'm proposing is the invention and propagation of three (potentially two) new terms. Which mean the following:

_____sexual: Primarily sexually interested in men, some sexual interest in women.
_____sexual: Primarily sexually interested in women, some sexual interest in men
And finally-
_____sexual: Equally sexually interested in both sexes. Probably crazy in bed (not part of official definition)


So help me out fellow language enthusiasts. I'm thinking the middle term might be able to stay "bi-sexual", but I feel like that would perhaps be a better overall title and have three "variants" within it. So my first suggestion are the following titles, just off the top of my head (though I accept that they are horrible):

biandrosexual: Primarily sexually interested in men, some sexual interest in women.
bigynasexual: Primarily sexually interested in women, some sexual interest in men
bisexual: Equally sexually interested in both sexes.



DISCUSS

[Crissa]

You're describing groups which are a more narrow field than the names generated so far reveal. So while all those are bisexual, they are also 'leaning' or 'primary' in some other way.

If you take, for instance, the voting patterns of Democrats, Republicans, and Independents... You will find that a % of each will actually be primary for A or B, independent of their affiliation, work, or self identification. And yet we still act as though 'independent' is somewhere in the middle - when in fact, very few of them really are.

-Crissa

[Prak]

See the problem is that you could very very easily take three random men or women who all identify themselves as bisexual and, when comparing their sexual attitudes, find that none of them have similar sexual outlooks and desires.

You could do the same with straight or homosexual people. You might find that three lesbians have a lot in common with three straight men in that respect, but it wouldn't necessarily mean anything.


Sex terminology is complicated enough without this. Hell, I didn't know there was a place and term for my gender identity in the transgender movement until early this year. We do not need more terms.

[Psychic Robot]

Especially for women nowadays with whom bisexuality is becoming vastly less taboo and more open and accepted as part of the common cultural zeitgeist.

We call these people attention whores.

[Dean]

Especially for women nowadays with whom bisexuality is becoming vastly less taboo and more open and accepted as part of the common cultural zeitgeist.

We call these people attention whores.

I'll disagree with that. What I'm saying I am finding more and more common is finding out, occasionally many months into knowing a girl that when I describe her at some point as straight she will casually mention that she is in fact bisexual. But that that almost always requires the addition of many more words.

The difference between this and say, Democrat or something along these lines is that when I say I'm a democrat I leave it at that. While the term may not be perfect it is close enough in generating the proper schema in most people's minds to be acceptable to me. If every time I talked to someone about their party affiliation they had to say "I'm a Republican, but blah blah blah blah, and I'm not so much about blah blah blah blah.". Therefore I think that a need for these words -does- exist. Because the word "Bisexual" does not satisfactorily describe the people that ascribe themselves to it TO those people.
And I do not believe that field for sexual orientation terminology is overloaded. I agree with Prak that the terminology for transgender individuals of ANY kind or mindset is both woefully inadequate and baroque but that is both a separate issue and one caused, mostly, by general ignorance and a butting heads with basic genetic binary ideologies.

I think these words would have both a market, AND a value, and would see substantial use.

[Crissa]

Most of us don't reply to PR.

Life is messy. Most people probably are bisexual. So what? You want them to give you their Kinsey number?

-Crissa

[Count Arioch the 28th]

Especially for women nowadays with whom bisexuality is becoming vastly less taboo and more open and accepted as part of the common cultural zeitgeist.

We call these people attention whores.

I'll disagree with that.

Every bisexual woman I've dated has been one. Most bisexual women I have known have been one. And it will continue to be so until the "Lezbiens r HAWT HURF DURF" phase runs out. As it is, a woman saying they're bi is the same thing as saying "I'm going to pretend there's a chance for a threesome if you do my bidding". It's a type of manipulation.

If male homosexuality wasn't seen as "gross" in this country, men would be doing it too (as it is, it's a good way to get lynched.)

[Crissa]

In more urbanized areas, men do it, too.

I've dated men and women. I bet Koumei has, too. It's not really a big deal that we need names for all this stuff. You're open to it or not - where you end up is completely opaque to someone who's open. One of the leading voices in lesbian feminist literature ended up with a guy friend she'd known for years.

We don't need more words here, because they only limit the possibilities.

-Crissa

[Koumei]

For what it's worth, one of the 847 "D&D: SEX edition" books lists a scale of Gay - Bi-Gyno - Bi - Bi-Andro - Straight (female) and Gay - Bi-andro - Bi - Bi-gyno - Straight (male). It also has a scale for how voracious you are (libido/sexual appetite/sluttiness). Basically you can have a sexual alignment, which is less stupid than the current one.

Holy shit... you could have Detect Lesbian as a spell. That would be so awesome. That's without getting into Smite Slut, Smite Them HARD.

Somebody patent this.

I bet Koumei has, too.

Surprisingly not. I can really appreciate an athletic, well-looked-after male body, but not in a lusty way. I have even picked out the kinds of famous men I would probably go for if I was straight. But I don't like the idea of even kissing a guy. So my Kinsey rating is HARD GAY.

But that might be linked to always being uncomfortable around guys, and easily intimidated by them.

And I've dated fewer women than you'd think, sadly.

Anyway, to answer Count: though I've met the kind you're talking about, I've met plenty of bi girls who aren't like that. Generally it's the kind where at some point it becomes relevant to the conversation and you're "Oh, I didn't realise that." and conversation moves on. As opposed to "Hi I'm bisexual deal with it k?"

It also helps that it's socially acceptable for girls to kiss each other, hug each other and smack each other on the ass at random, as nothing more than friends. Though it's awkward from a "Am I taking advantage of this? It is socially acceptable only as a friendly thing, so I have to intend this hug in a socially acceptable way" perspective.

[Crissa]

I always have the problem that most of the guys I've liked are gay, which kinda defeats the whole, well, I'd date that, sorta thing. And I've dated fewer girls than guys. I think my total is still less than I can count on my hands... I'd hafta think about it a bit to be specific.

-Crissa

[Count Arioch the 28th]

Anyway, to answer Count: though I've met the kind you're talking about, I've met plenty of bi girls who aren't like that. Generally it's the kind where at some point it becomes relevant to the conversation and you're "Oh, I didn't realise that." and conversation moves on. As opposed to "Hi I'm bisexual deal with it k?"

It might be entirely possible that I know quite a few women who are bi who don't throw it in everyone's face and therefore don't apply to my generalization based on a sample size of <10. I don't find most women sexually attractive in the least, and don't know what my sexuality would even be called (Deeply closeted bi who favors women but is mostly asexual? Something like that).

[Crissa]

Yeah, we have alot of sympathy for ya, Count. I know the bad ones exist, I've sen 'em. Luckily... Not in my circle of friends.

-Crissa

[Zinegata]

Can we call them Brokebacks to point out that the cowboys in that movie are in fact bisexual?

[Prak]

idiotic trolling is idiotic, zine.

[CatharzGodfoot]

Just use a decimal value from 0 to 1. You can make one end female and one end male, or you can make one end homo and one end hetero. It doesn't matter which end is which, but no matter what you choose you're going to piss someone off.

[Prak]

you could also just go with an attribute or description system.

[Crissa]

Well, there already is one.

-Crissa

[Zinegata]

idiotic trolling is idiotic, zine.

And you're a close-minded idiot.

Transgender people use an Admiral Ackbar reference to refer to themselves.

Why not use something from a highly acclaimed film that is often (wrongly) called a gay cowboy film? It actually portrays bisexual people in a good light.

BB is also pretty close to Bi.

[Prak]

no, you've just created a certain expectation of your posts, Zine.

[Zinegata]

no, you've just created a certain expectation of your posts, Zine.

Yes. Blame the person you keep accusing of things that he never actually said.

Fact is Prak, you attack me because you're a shithead who shoots from the hip without looking, and you got embarassed by it. And instead of manning up to it you now instead attack me at every opportunity because, as you pointed out, if you keep repeating shit people start believing it's true.

You're a lying shit Prak. And I'm gonna keep repeating it until you stop being a lying shit.

[Prak]

when exactly did you embarrass me? I certainly haven't felt embarrassed.

oh, and you can ask around, when I'm wrong, I'll admit it. Of course you think everyone here is a lying asshole, so...

[Zinegata]

when exactly did you embarrass me? I certainly haven't felt embarrassed.

That's because you're a shameless lying shit. Who interprets support for consumer responsibility as synonymous with the position that poor people only have themselves to blame.

You're a lying shit. If you don't recognize this, that makes it worse because that just makes you a DUMB lying shit.

oh, and you can ask around, when I'm wrong, I'll admit it.

You're a lying shit because you say that using the term "Brokeback" is trolling. When it's a reference to an award-winning film depicting bisexuals.

You're a fucking moron AND a lying shit if you deny this.

Of course you think everyone here is a lying asshole, so...

I mentioned several people who are not.

You are not one of them, lying shit.

[Prak]

when exactly did you embarrass me? I certainly haven't felt embarrassed.

That's because you're a shameless lying shit. Who interprets support for consumer responsibility as synonymous with the position that poor people only have themselves to blame.

not even fucking close to what went on in that thread, Zine.

and while you didn't technically say it's poor people's own fault they're poor, you did imply it's their own fault that they're fat, unhealthy and dead:

If you ask for food and you die because businesses give you high cholesterol food, it's your own damn fault because you didn't bother to specify.

strike 1.

oh, and you can ask around, when I'm wrong, I'll admit it.

You're a lying shit because you say that using the term "Brokeback" is trolling. When it's a reference to an award-winning film depicting bisexuals.

the source of a reference doesn't matter, the usage does. With your history, I interpreted what you said as trolling. Not my fault, nor my problem.

strike 2.

Of course you think everyone here is a lying asshole, so...

I mentioned several people who are not.

You are not one of them, lying shit.

I'm having trouble finding the post where you did this. if you're so interested in proving that I'm a lying idiot pig, why don't you give me a link. (on the other hand having to go back and scour your idiotic posts showed me something I missed that I have to go respond to, so, thanks.)

[Zinegata]

strike 1.

We've been over this before. You're a lying shit when you made that statement, and when I responded you fucking ran like the pig coward that you are.

You're not only a lying shit, but you're a delusional shit who thinks that people who are irresponsible enough to become obese are comparable to Third World people who can hardly get a meal a day.

In fact, that's not just lying shit. That's offensive shit.

the source of a reference doesn't matter, the usage does. With your history, I interpreted what you said as trolling. Not my fault, nor my problem.

Fuck you. The real reason why you think I'm trolling is real simple:

You're fucking fat.

You admit so in your blog. And the only reason why you persist in harassing me is because I have the temerity to say "People should be responsible for what they eat."

So fuck you, lying shit. Stop derailing the thread with your unwarranted personal attacks because you have weight issues and you don't fucking want to exercise.

[Prak]

strike 1.

We've been over this before. You're a lying shit when you made that statement, and when I responded you fucking ran like the pig coward that you are.

You're not only a lying shit, but you're a delusional shit who thinks that people who are irresponsible enough to become obese are comparable to Third World people who can hardly get a meal a day.

and again, I never made that equivocation. You seem to think I did, point me to the thread where I said "being fat is like being a poor african"

In fact, that's not just lying shit. That's offensive shit.

That's great. Putting aside for the moment the fact that it's a figment of your own head, I honestly don't give a shit about being offensive.

the source of a reference doesn't matter, the usage does. With your history, I interpreted what you said as trolling. Not my fault, nor my problem.

Fuck you. The real reason why you think I'm trolling is real simple:

You're fucking fat.

You admit so in your blog. And the only reason why you persist in harassing me is because I have the temerity to say "People should be responsible for what they eat."

Ooh. Ow. Yes, hit me where it hurts. I believe people are responsible for their health based on what they eat, the subject of my personal beliefs on the matter never came up, however. You've merely crammed words into my mouth for having the temerity to defend someone and be a rational person who points out what you've said in the past that is causing current arguement.

So fuck you, lying shit. Stop derailing the thread with your unwarranted personal attacks because you have weight issues and you don't fucking want to exercise.

It's rather debatable who derailed this thread, but sure, I'll take all further responses to the thread that you derailed shall I?

Oh, and I don't have weight issues. I'm overweight, I own up to the fact that it's my fault, and I don't exercise enough. Right, fine. whatever.