Statting Weeping Angels

[virgil]

I was contemplating a sort of expy of these Doctor Who monsters, where they always look to be perfectly still while directly observed (at least visually), but that's hard to represent in D&D. I had considered one ability, but I'm not sure if it would work. There's also the potential problem in having any monster with such a limitation, at least in actual resolution/combat.

Hide Between Sight (Ex) If observed, able to make a Hide check against all observers to act unnoticed for the round, but will count as slowed.
Actively watching a 10’ line grants the viewer a +5 Spot bonus against this ability in the area, at the expense of counting as distracted elsewhere.

[CatharzGodfoot]

[*]Hidden Movement: wheepy angels are invisible while moving. After the wheepy angel moves, a it is hidden and new Spot check is required to find it.

Alternatively, give them a move action teleportation power that leaves them hidden.

[RobbyPants]

So, wait. How does this work? They sit still, and move crazy fast during a brief instant when you're not watching?

Is this just an ambush tactic, or is it actually a physical limitation? What I'm saying is, if the PCs get wise to this creature and decide to walk up to it without blinking and stab it in the face, will it be able to react?

That being said, if these guys start out as "background" objects, you could involve some type of Wisdom check to have the PCs see if they even noticed that the statue moved. So they could get followed and ambushed if they don't catch on, or maybe get some odd unsettling feeling if they didn't fail by more than five (or whatever).

[RobbyPants]

Well, I read the Wiki article and it makes more sense now. So it seems they're literally indestructible, so they can't be killed even if the PCs wise up to them. Still, this is D&D, so the PCs have all sorts of great options available to trivially neutralize the encounter.

[Manxome]

In the Doctor Who episode, they (involuntarily) turn into statues while anyone can see them, as "the perfect defense mechanism" because "you can't kill a statue". They look like they're weeping, because they always cover their own faces so that they won't accidentally see each other, because if two of them lock gazes that would leave them trapped until something broke the line of sight.

But while no one looks at them, they're ridiculously fast - they can literally cross a room in the blink of an eye, if the person blinking was the only one observing them.

It was a fairly cool episode, but I'm sure I don't need to go into all the reasons that doesn't make sense.

[JonSetanta]

Perfect defense? Meet a big hammer.

[RobbyPants]

Well, it says they're indestructible. Still that wouldn't stop a D&D party from dealing with them if they made their Knowledge check.

That being said, would you just give them a crazy high land speed and a really high Str score (the entry says they're really strong)? I guess they'd have to be allowed to resolve their actions all as a free action, perhaps with some other limit (maybe a swift action?).

What happens if you're blind? Can they subject you to eleventy billion attacks in a six-second period? How fast is fast?

[virgil]

I wasn't expecting them to be a high CR threat or anything, but giving them DR combined with the hardness from statue (possibly some construct immunities) would at least make it take long enough for them to get some hits in. This would depend on how deadly their attacks are and it would certainly make them unstoppable against very low level people.

Of course, they start having high CR when you do a conversion of their 'full-power' as seen in later episodes of Doctor Who. Stuff like instantly 'kill' (more teleport and send back in time to no longer be a threat) with a touch, psychically manipulating/draining energy, project themselves through any picture/image of themselves, impregnate people who stare at them too long with their children (the only way to pause gestation is to close your eyes), & regenerate. And they frequently operate in groups to force a diversion of attention.

I'm reticent to just have them be invisible while moving, because that ignores the important part of them being slowed down if you actively watch one. An important feat any of them would have in D&D would be Darkstalker.

[PhoneLobster]

Good lord, why would anyone want to stat the arguably SILLIEST and most annoyingly stupid doctor who monster of modern times?

(no wait, it's doctor who, something else is bound to be as silly, OK the most OVER RATED silly doctor who monster of modern times).

Daleks make more fucking sense than these stupid hack job monsters.

[Sashi]

Weeping Angels aren't monsters, they're traps.

[virgil]

The Doctor's rogues gallery is competing with the likes of sentient dice, murderous ceilings, and innumerable other silly things. I'm hardly concerned about that, especially since there exists a very real segment which sees them as credible, and it's not like I'm fellating them into CR 20 monsters.

The bigger concern is the validity of converting their iconic trait of observed immobility into D&D-speak, whether it should see use past a certain level or not.

[CatharzGodfoot]

The bigger concern is the validity of converting their iconic trait of observed immobility into D&D-speak, whether it should see use past a certain level or not.

Well, do they move at all when being observed? Can you catch one on video?

[virgil]

In the show, they can move during any instance they aren't visually observed, which includes during the blink of an eye or when you're looking elsewhere. I tried to represent that with Hide Between Sight in the OP.

In the more recent appearance of Doctor Who, when they aren't starving, they have the ability to drain energy from a distance without having to move. Also, catching one on video will make it not move...except that any image of a Weeping Angel can eventually become an angel on its own (or at least have the original project itself through it).

Better details can be found here.

Now, at the lower levels, there

[Judging__Eagle]

Invisibility (+20 to hide checks, +40 if moving) all the time.

If their square is targetted, they go statue-like.

Remember to enforce spot and listen penalties.

I've had really stupod fellow players, and dumber DMs, completely seem to forget that distance, barriers, and most imortantly distractions fuck with your awareness.

-1 per 10 feet to spot/listen
-5 for 'soft' doors (internal doors)
-10 for solid doors (1 1/4" solid wood, or better)
-10 for engaging in an other activity that would distract you from spotting/listening


I'm seriously considering making "Caution" be a stat for FAR. Under Form->Trained->Mental->Caution. You need Caution checks to keep yourself from ignoring your environment. Of course, you can't make Empathy checks of any kind if you're constantly making Caution checks.

[Hieronymous Rex]

Now, at the lower levels, there

Very clever, Mr. Virgil.

Invisibility (+20 to hide checks, +40 if moving) all the time.

The Angels can also move silently, even at great speed. Should this be considered part of their Quantum Lock quality?


EDIT: Wow, I didn't know I had that kind of power.

[LR]

Okay, how exactly does the angel determine if it's being seen? It can't be measurement (sight is passive), so it has to have something to do with the observer. Does that mean that it works based on the camera (the eye), or does it work based on what's going on in the observer's modeling software (the visual cortex)?

[CatharzGodfoot]

Okay, how exactly does the angel determine if it's being seen? It can't be measurement (sight is passive), so it has to have something to do with the observer. Does that mean that it works based on the camera (the eye), or does it work based on what's going on in the observer's modeling software (the visual cortex)?

Since it apparently exists to some extent in any image of it, the fact that it is being observed would become apparent as soon as it senses itself from a new location. So, yeah, it would function in the camera since in can also incorporate through photos. Which could lead to the very unpleasant experience of it exploding out of your face if you stare too long.

[TavishArtair]

Okay, how exactly does the angel determine if it's being seen? It can't be measurement (sight is passive), so it has to have something to do with the observer. Does that mean that it works based on the camera (the eye), or does it work based on what's going on in the observer's modeling software (the visual cortex)?

Observation literally causes them to lock up. So I believe it is the camera.

[Sashi]

You will not be able to accurately represent the Weeping Angel's in D&D land, ever. Because the whole "they only murder you when you aren't looking at them" thing doesn't work in a system with implied 360 degree sightlines.

The angels have literally the opposite of a gaze attack: if players don't look at them then the players are affected with a SOD.

Statue Form: While in statue form, Weeping Angels are Paralyzed and have hardness of 20+CR+CHA Mod.

Quantum Lock: Weeping Angels cannot act while being observed. Weeping Angels are locked in Statue Form as long as there is at least one creature within line of sight of the Weeping Angel that passes a DC 10+CR+CHA spot check, you may not take 10 on this check.

Telepathy: A Weeping Angel is in constant telepathic contact with all other Weeping Angels within 180'.

Imperceptibility: Any time the Weeping Angel isn't in Statue Form it is, by definition, not being observed and is invisible, overcoming all effects that would otherwise see invisible creatures such as See Invisibility and True Seeing.

Temporal Displacement (SU): As a standard action a Weeping Angel may attempt to displace a single adjacent target from reality. The target must pass a DC 10+1/2CR+Cha will save or be unhinged in time, leaving no memory or historical impact of their existence. There is a 25% chance someone affected by this ability is merely sent (CR)d10 years back in time.

[CatharzGodfoot]

They're not especially fast when they aren't being looked at. Basically, if you glance away and then back they have exactly enough time to move up into your face but not enough to attack. I guess in D&D terms that would give them a high movement rate but only partial actions.

[virgil]

Goddamn it Rex, get rid of that extra closing quote tag in your post!

Judging by everyone's total avoidance of mentioning Hide Between Sight, I guess it's bad and I should feel bad for suggesting it?

[Sashi]

It's bad, mostly because it tries to fold too many things into one ability. But also because the angels are objectively not hiding in any way, shape, or form.

You also don't want to have the "pass this or die" DC be based on the angel's skill modifier and lucky rolls, but instead on their CR like Frightful Presence or something. So making it an opposed hide vs. spot check is exactly wrong.

[CatharzGodfoot]

It's bad, mostly because it tries to fold too many things into one ability. But also because the angels are objectively not hiding in any way, shape, or form.

You also don't want to have the "pass this or die" DC be based on the angel's skill modifier and lucky rolls, but instead on their CR like Frightful Presence or something. So making it an opposed hide vs. spot check is exactly wrong.

Yeah, if anything it should be a Will save. Because you aren't trying to figure out where they are--you know that, or you'd already be dead.

[Dean]

I might try and work a functional D&D equivalent into existance to get the same feel rather than a truly faithful replication of what the mechanics might be. Something like every turn you have to fight one you have to make increasing concentration checks (from not blinking) and when you fail they hit you and can move anywhere within 30ft.

And people could double (or triple) up making it tremendously unlikely that a single one could be a threat against multiple people trying to look at it. Meaning they would likely come in small packs and surround.

Same feel, and the feel seems to be what was important.

[JonSetanta]

OK. Who quotebroke the thread...