'Break' me a fighter

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:44 am

I am about to make a 15th level fighter, 3.5 PHB only, likely only a handful of items from the DMG only to fight another in both crawl and arena combat (unknown details). What do you suggest?

fectin · Post by **fectin** » Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:45 am

Custom Magic Items?

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:54 am

Seerow · Post by **Seerow** » Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:59 am

Cross class UMD and pretend you're a shitty rogue?

Seriously core only fighter is impossible to break. Why would you want to subject yourself to that?

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:09 am

I'd say go spiked chain tripstar and hope for the best.

Avoraciopoctules · Post by **Avoraciopoctules** » Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:16 am

See whether you can spend character wealth on a monster mount. A hippogryph and bow are a pretty nice combo.

A regular warhorse and shortbow are also kind of useful, but more easily invalidated by "Dungeon combat"

CapnTthePirateG · Post by **CapnTthePirateG** » Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:22 am

I will join the chorus.

You're fucked.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:27 am

Hmm... on the mount idea... Purple Wurm/Xorn and a brilliant energy bow... weird, and the info on using purple wurms as mounts isn't core, but it'd be a cute trick...

fectin · Post by **fectin** » Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:32 am

What's the campaign like? You probably can't be generally broken, but you may be able to optimize (triceratops rider for outdoor combat, etc).

Avoraciopoctules · Post by **Avoraciopoctules** » Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:45 am

DMG stuff means you can use Feather Tokens to create obstacles. Trees and boats. If you can keep a distance from your opponent and possess better ranged firepower, that can be useful.

erik · Post by **erik** » Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:59 am

Well, the obvious answer is take Leadership and get a caster cohort.

Most other tricks would generally rely upon using sneaky magic items.

Failing that... ehhhhh.

Deep Halfling
15 Fighter
Stat Priority: Strength. Dexterity.
Feats:
1)Mounted Combat
1F)Ride By Attack
2F)Power Attack
3)Point Blank Shot
4F)Spirited Charge
6)Rapid Shot
6F)Weapon Focus (lance)
8F)Weapon Spec (lance)
9)Cleave
10F)Great Cleave
12)Improved Crit (comp long bow)
12F)Weapon Focus (comp long bow)
14F)Improved Critical (lance)
15)Weapon Spec (comp long bow)

Basically either kite with bow, or charge with lance. A 2 trick pony.

At str 18, +1 Brilliant Energy lance, full power attack spirited charge is liable to deal 3d6+117 damage (5d6+195 crit) with a +9 Touch Attack.

Almost no matter what you are going to have shit saves vs. will and reflex, and mediocre saves vs. fortitude. Basically anything you face that can bring a save or suck wins, unless you get in a killer crit charge first.

K · Post by K » Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:19 am

The way that you "break" a 15th level Fighter is to play it like a Wizard.

This means that you need to Polymorph, PAO, or Magic Jar into a better combat form. You dump your combat stats because of stat replacement, get feats that help monster combat, and don't have to spend your 200K of equipment on armor or weapons.

If your DM is allowing everything in the SRD, a Skin of Proteus gives you a continuous Metamorphosis power that is basically 95% of a Polymorph and it only costs 85K.

Failing that, Magic Jarring from scrolls into powerful combat forms or just permanently changing into a powerful monster form with Polymorph any Object are good secondary options.

If you can start as a Aasimar or another Bad-touched Outsider, you can PAO yourself into something awesome like a Planetar and it will be permanent if you have an Int of 22. This will give you hands, options for magic armor and weapons, and the like. Otherwise, there are worse things than just being a troll.

Regardless of which option you choose, a Hat of Disguise is mandatory.

erik · Post by **erik** » Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:14 am

Heh, what UMD can you get up to I wonder?

9 ranks cross class
say +4 charisma
+3 skill focus, +2 magical aptitude

That gets ya to +18 UMD, 1 auto fails anyway so 95% chance of activating a wand.

Pick up a few wands of enervation 21k gp apiece. Go to town slapping negative levels on things until they either die or are easy pickins. Only problems are undead, golems, SR and naughty clerics with death ward.

Just for versatility's sake, a wand of polymorph (for troll form) is also 21k, level 10 fireball for 22.5k, Charm Monster for 21k (will DC 16), 42k for a 240' fly speed phantom steed.

You could do this and still be a spirited charger/archer. Just be human and drop the cleave tree and pick up Quick Draw for rapid wand drawing.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:18 am

erik wrote: 9 ranks cross class

Do you absolutely have to be a Fighter for every single level? Never mind that the best Fighteahahahahaha, sorry, that cracks me up. Let's try that again.

The least awful Fighters multiclass out ASAP or take Prestige Classes (of which you'll find zero in core that suit you).

But if you have some wiggle room there, take one level of Rogue so UMD can be a class skill. Shame it's Core Only, otherwise you could just blow a Feat on it.

hogarth · Post by **hogarth** » Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:48 am

Invest in Candles of Invocation.

K · Post by K » Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:39 am

Also, don't buy a mount. Be like a Wizard and take a scroll of animate dead so that you can make something awesome into your mount.

erik · Post by **erik** » Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:47 pm

Koumei wrote: Do you absolutely have to be a Fighter for every single level? Never mind that the best Fighteahahahahaha, sorry, that cracks me up. Let's try that again.

The least awful Fighters multiclass out ASAP or take Prestige Classes (of which you'll find zero in core that suit you).

But if you have some wiggle room there, take one level of Rogue so UMD can be a class skill. Shame it's Core Only, otherwise you could just blow a Feat on it.

Are the extra UMD ranks mostly for higher level scrolls and staff shenanigans? Because a rogue level and higher skill ranks doesn't make a fighter any better at using wands since +18 bonus is the magic number where you cannot improve upon it.

Krusk · Post by **Krusk** » Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:31 pm

Can you cheat and pick an exotic race with a serious LA/Racial HD?

A pixie has flight and greater invis at will. Some DR, and decent SR for any wands/scrolls you need to watch for. Pixie 4/fighter 11 can probably just be impossible to target for a fighter and peppering the opponent with arrows.

You also do fine in a dungeon and cramped space. Your tactics aren't particularly exciting or impressive but it will probably be effective and eventually it will just be "fine you win" because you can't be found. Important items are things that boost your hide and move silently scores, because fighters don't get listen or spot. Especially if your "opponent" fighter expects it to be a head on straight up fight.

Feats
1)Point Blank Shot
1F)Rapid Shot
2F) Power Attack
3)Wingover
4F)Weapon Focus (comp long bow)
6) Flyby Attack
6F)Weapon Spec (comp long bow)
8F) Improved Crit (comp long bow)
9)Hover
10F) Improved Crit Dagger
- You can probably ditch a few of those flight feats depending on your groups flight house rules. Most have them.

- Fighter prestige classes - Horizon walker is pretty solid if you can get into it, which is very hard for fighters without multiclassing.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:45 pm

Basically, the question is pretty much asking you to make a level 15 NPC class as powerful as possible after doing a sunk cost on levels. It's not even like the PHB fighter bonus feats are very good past level 8 or so.

Korwin · Post by **Korwin** » Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:36 pm

erik wrote:
Koumei wrote: Do you absolutely have to be a Fighter for every single level? Never mind that the best Fighteahahahahaha, sorry, that cracks me up. Let's try that again.

The least awful Fighters multiclass out ASAP or take Prestige Classes (of which you'll find zero in core that suit you).

But if you have some wiggle room there, take one level of Rogue so UMD can be a class skill. Shame it's Core Only, otherwise you could just blow a Feat on it.
Are the extra UMD ranks mostly for higher level scrolls and staff shenanigans? Because a rogue level and higher skill ranks doesn't make a fighter any better at using wands since +18 bonus is the magic number where you cannot improve upon it.

That 1 = fumble an UMD specific rule?
Pretty shure there is no fumble for skill checks.

Endovior · Post by **Endovior** » Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:57 pm

Krusk wrote:Your tactics aren't particularly exciting or impressive but it will probably be effective and eventually it will just be "fine you win" because you can't be found. Important items are things that boost your hide and move silently scores, because fighters don't get listen or spot. Especially if your "opponent" fighter expects it to be a head on straight up fight.

This. I've played in enough arena games to conclude that stealth is the 'you win' button, and as such have stopped playing arena games. Mostly because it's really boring to do stealth in PbP; it boils down to very one-sided battles that take forever.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:36 pm

Korwin wrote:That 1 = fumble an UMD specific rule?
Pretty shure there is no fumble for skill checks.

Technically, the rules is specific to UMD, but it's not actually a critical fumble rule, and he's wrong, +19 is an improvement. The rule is:

"Try Again
Yes, but if you ever roll a natural 1 while attempting to activate an item and you fail, then you can’t try to activate that item again for 24 hours."

So technically, as long as you have +19, you always succeed on a 1, and the try again rule never applies.

erik · Post by **erik** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:46 am

Kaelik wrote: So technically, as long as you have +19, you always succeed on a 1, and the try again rule never applies.

This. Oops on my part.

I misread it as "if you ever roll a natural 1 while attempting to activate an item (and) you fail, then you can’t try to activate that item again for 24 hours."

I left out the crucial 'and' in my faulty interpretation. What kills me is that I recalled it and have always played it as Kaelik described, but I checked it again before posting in this thread just to be sure and proceeded to fail at life, reading and rereading.

So yeah, +18 isn't the magic number, +19 is. Snag a 20 charisma with 9 ranks and 2 crappy feats and you will be ready to get your wand on.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:34 am

erik wrote: Are the extra UMD ranks mostly for higher level scrolls and staff shenanigans?

You want to emulate as high a Cleric level as you can when using a Candle of Invocation to prepare your daily spells.

Neurosis · Post by **Neurosis** » Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:05 pm

erik wrote:Well, the obvious answer is take Leadership and get a caster cohort.

Most other tricks would generally rely upon using sneaky magic items.

Failing that... ehhhhh.

Deep Halfling
15 Fighter
Stat Priority: Strength. Dexterity.
Feats:
1)Mounted Combat
1F)Ride By Attack
2F)Power Attack
3)Point Blank Shot
4F)Spirited Charge
6)Rapid Shot
6F)Weapon Focus (lance)
8F)Weapon Spec (lance)
9)Cleave
10F)Great Cleave
12)Improved Crit (comp long bow)
12F)Weapon Focus (comp long bow)
14F)Improved Critical (lance)
15)Weapon Spec (comp long bow)

Basically either kite with bow, or charge with lance. A 2 trick pony.

At str 18, +1 Brilliant Energy lance, full power attack spirited charge is liable to deal 3d6+117 damage (5d6+195 crit) with a +9 Touch Attack.

Almost no matter what you are going to have shit saves vs. will and reflex, and mediocre saves vs. fortitude. Basically anything you face that can bring a save or suck wins, unless you get in a killer crit charge first.

This is the correct answer. I love this build. Does it HAVE to be a deep halfling, or can it be anything?