What kind of advice should DM/GM guides give?

[OgreBattle]

Reading through the OSR's of DM guides is making me wonder: What SHOULD new game masters be told about running a game of murder hobos?

[Ghremdal]

A tutorial how to write a scene and how to direct one. And how to tie scenes together. With emphasis on the cooperative nature of the game. Basically a 101 on how to write a book.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

I could see a solid page on common types of disruptive playstyles/players, and positive approaches to resolving that. Also, a blurb about the kind of game that a given ruleset is meant to produce, and methods to foster that amongst players might prove useful.

[mlangsdorf]

There should be a section on how to provide enough preparation that your players feel there's some structure, and how to abandon your preparation and improvise so that you can respond to your players' inputs.

[hogarth]

The most important thing is an example of a role-playing session, then suggestions as to how to create an adventure, followed by tips for "winging it" when the players decide not to play your adventure.

[Whipstitch]

Yeah, entirely too many people seem to interpret it as an act of naked aggression for some dumb ass reason.

[Grek]

I could see a solid page on common types of disruptive playstyles/players, and positive approaches to resolving that. Also, a blurb about the kind of game that a given ruleset is meant to produce, and methods to foster that amongst players might prove useful.

Every time I read or hear about a section like this in a book, it is terrible. It sounds like a good idea in theory, but I have yet to see it work in practice.

[silva]

There should be a section on how to provide enough preparation that your players feel there's some structure, and how to abandon your preparation and improvise so that you can respond to your players' inputs.

This.

[Whipstitch]

I think talking about group dynamics can be a good thing, but starting out with "Here are the people who might be a problem" as your thesis frames things as unnecessarily adversarial from the start and oftentimes such screeds also have an unfortunate habit of dog piling on people who may very well be harmless in the context of your own group--a lot of books are almost comically hostile to people that say, know the rules, for example. I think you're better off with something like the "Advancing Goals" section Frank wrote for After Sundown, since it touches on some things that can gum up the game but without the assumption that the player is an asshole for playing his rational, veteran healer as having misgivings about storming Deathtrap Dungeon just for shits and giggles.

[shadzar]

Reading through the OSR's of DM guides is making me wonder: What SHOULD new game masters be told about running a game of murder hobos?

no clue considering "murder-hobos" whatever that exactly is, is likely only one playstyle, and a guide should NOT instruct DMs to only one playstyle, unless that is all the game can support.

it should remind the DM it is a game, and it is imagination, and for the most part RPGs are NEVER complete.

it should tell the DM how to make the game work when all else fails.

it should tell the DM clearly how to make the game work, when NOTHING is failing.

it should tell the DM there are at LEAST two kinds of games that can be played. board game style where things wait and exist only for players, and living worlds where the players are just taking part, the biggest part, of the world. how to identify these from the players, and how to explain them TO the players. also it should not that never the two can cohabit in the same world design, though both player types can.

it should also explain when to use dice and when not to.

also how to run story focused games, combat driven games, and mixed games.

adjust above depending on if one of the things mentioned is not present in the RPG.

[K]

I think that gaming would advance a long way if every RPG had a section entitled "Remember, gaming is about everyone having fun. If something that you or a player is doing is not fun for everyone, you've fucked up somewhere."

Then you explain the failures of things like Gygaxian design, power gamers and munchkins, and railroading.

[Judging__Eagle]

The Alexandrian's nine part series on basic plot-less node-based adventures; as well as their six part series on advanced plot-less node-based adventures is also good.

The importance of having an overall framework of the world; and being able to establish player character motivations; as well as player motivations.

As well as the importance that players feel in terms of their agency when the campaign is a sandbox that can be explored in multiple directions.

[shadzar]

I think that gaming would advance a long way if every RPG had a section entitled "Remember, gaming is about everyone having fun. If something that you or a player is doing is not fun for everyone, you've fucked up somewhere."

i bolded an important word, since the DM is included in everyone, and the same should be said to players also, so they don't forget that the DM isnt there to entertain them, that is what movies and shit like that is for.

[K]

I think that gaming would advance a long way if every RPG had a section entitled "Remember, gaming is about everyone having fun. If something that you or a player is doing is not fun for everyone, you've fucked up somewhere."

i bolded an important word, since the DM is included in everyone, and the same should be said to players also, so they don't forget that the DM isnt there to entertain them, that is what movies and shit like that is for.

Yeh, if the PCs expect to be entertained and you aren't willing to do that as the DM, you should not be the DM.

There are lots of kinds of arrangements that groups can enjoy, and being the one person that ruins the group's fun because you don't hold up your part of the arrangement is a sign that you need to change or leave.

[Fuchs]

I think that gaming would advance a long way if every RPG had a section entitled "Remember, gaming is about everyone having fun. If something that you or a player is doing is not fun for everyone, you've fucked up somewhere."

This should be written into every guide.

[Ancient History]

"When in doubt, have an orc walk through the door with a crossbow."

[RadiantPhoenix]

"When in doubt, have an orc walk through the door with a crossbow."

Which naturally leads to the quest, "what is an orc doing in Corellon Larethian's palace?"

[shadzar]

I think that gaming would advance a long way if every RPG had a section entitled "Remember, gaming is about everyone having fun. If something that you or a player is doing is not fun for everyone, you've fucked up somewhere."

i bolded an important word, since the DM is included in everyone, and the same should be said to players also, so they don't forget that the DM isnt there to entertain them, that is what movies and shit like that is for.

Yeh, if the PCs expect to be entertained and you aren't willing to do that as the DM, you should not be the DM.

There are lots of kinds of arrangements that groups can enjoy, and being the one person that ruins the group's fun because you don't hold up your part of the arrangement is a sign that you need to change or leave.

DM job is NOT to fucking entertain the players. go get a fucking babysitter you cock-barrel smoker!

and people wonder why DMs are instantly hardassed towards people. players like this that expect the DM to be their nights entertainment rather than a player s well. fuck that shit.

the DM is NOT a slave or employee to the payers, nor is being one part of his duties. you need to learn this, and learn it fast before you hit your teen years damn snot nosed brat.

[K]

DM job is NOT to fucking entertain the players. go get a fucking babysitter you cock-barrel smoker!

and people wonder why DMs are instantly hardassed towards people. players like this that expect the DM to be their nights entertainment rather than a player s well. fuck that shit.

the DM is NOT a slave or employee to the payers, nor is being one part of his duties. you need to learn this, and learn it fast before you hit your teen years damn snot nosed brat.

DMing is not a job or a position that grants special status. You either do what your players need to have fun or you don't DM. It's just that simple because this is a game and the only goal is fun for everyone.

There is no third option where one person, DM or otherwise, gets to dictate what the group should accept as fun and recreation.

I know that this flies in the face of decades of grognard power fantasies, and that's exactly why it's so goddamn essential to impart to the next generation of gamers.

Philosophically, you always know that you are right when a grognard loses his erection.

[zugschef]

Philosophically, you always know that you are right when a grognard loses his erection.

Philosophically, you always know that you are not wrong when shadzar loses his shit.

[Omegonthesane]

Devil's advocate: Before he went into full sperg mode, I read shadzar's post as saying that Mister Cavern is not there to entertain the players at the expense of his or her own enjoyment.

Of course, if you aren't enjoying being MC then the solution probably involves you stepping down as MC...

[Fuchs]

K stated that the DM should have fun as well in his original post.

[hogarth]

I think that gaming would advance a long way if every RPG had a section entitled "Remember, gaming is about everyone having fun. If something that you or a player is doing is not fun for everyone, you've fucked up somewhere."

This should be written into every guide.

That exact sentence is pretty useless by itself, of course. Saying "everybody should do awesome stuff all the time" is a nice sentiment, but hopelessly vague.

[K]

I think that gaming would advance a long way if every RPG had a section entitled "Remember, gaming is about everyone having fun. If something that you or a player is doing is not fun for everyone, you've fucked up somewhere."

This should be written into every guide.

That exact sentence is pretty useless by itself, of course. Saying "everybody should do awesome stuff all the time" is a nice sentiment, but hopelessly vague.

So you are saying that single sentences taken out of context from a longer post might not make sense without that context?

Alert the press!

[Chamomile]

So you are saying that single sentences taken out of context from a longer post might not make sense without that context?

Alert the press!

Yes, please: Alert the press to this fact.