OSSR: World of Warcraft RPG

[DragonChild]

First, let me start by saying I greatly respect World of Warcraft – I think it’s one of the most culturally and design-wise significant games ever, and that Blizzard really knows its stuff. While its’ had rough spots, WoW has constantly been improving, polishing, etc. RPGs honestly do have a lot to learn from WoW.

The original Warcraft RPG was published in 2003, and was set timeline wise after WC3 (WoW not being out yet). A revised “World of Warcraft RPG”, basically a section edition, was published in 2005. There were five supplements published for the original Warcraft RPG (Manual of Monsters, Alliance & Horde compendium, Magic & Mayhem, Lands of Conflict, Shadows & Light), and six published for the revised (More Magic and Mayhem, Lands of Mystery, Alliance Player’s Guide, Horde Player’s Guide, Monster Guide, Dark Factions). The last book, Dark Factions, was published in 2008.

We’ll be starting with the World of Warcraft RPG, the revised one, came out on June 27, 2005. That is pretty damn early in WoW’s history – battlegrounds were only introduced earlier that month, Blackwing Lair wasn't to be released until next month, and Dire Maul, Azuregos, and lord Kazzak were only four months old. Considering the turnaround time on an RPG, this stuff is reaaaallly classic WoW.

If I end up doing multiple books, I may use this first post as an index, so I'll leave some room here.

[DragonChild]

World of Warcraft RPG Core Book

This book basically uses modified 3.5. Assume everything is like 3.5 unless stated otherwise. Even most spells are just 3.5 spells.

Introduction

I’m not going to go over this stuff, but the Introduction takes you all the way to page 25, and includes “What is an RPG”, as well as all the details about the setting giving a short blurb on every zone. Basically, every zone in WoW at the time has a single paragraph here.

Chapter 1: Abilities

This chapter starts by explaining ability scores, some of which have been renamed; Dex is now Agility (confusingly abbreviated “Agy” instead of “Agi”), Con is now Stamina (abbreviated “Sta” instead of “Stm”), and Wis is now Spirit (“Spt”), to better match WoW.

Chapter 2: Races

Now we’re getting into actually interesting stuff. There are 10 races in the WoW RPG – the eight races that were in classic wow, plus High Elves and Goblins. In addition, there are “Racial Levels” – I think these were first introduced in Monte Cook’s Arcana Unearthed, and later done by WOTC is Unearthed Arcana. Where instead of taking levels of warrior, you can just take levels of Orc. Classes that have racial levels have 3 of them.

Dwarf, Ironforged: Dwarves are basically PHB dwarves but not as good. +2 Stm, -2 Cha, slow but not in armor, darkvision, stability, stonecunning, the ability to use some dwarven weapons (including rifles) as martial weapons, save vs poison, bonus to appraise. Their racial class is… something. With ¾ BAB, d8 HP, and 2+int skills, it’s a terrible chassis. You end up with +2 attack vs giants, +4 AC vs giants, +2 str, +3 saves vs spells, bonus dwarven weapon proficiencies (which you would have gotten with martial weapon proficiency) and 1/day getting +2 natural armor to AC for a battle. This is hugely underwhelming. Bizarrely, you get simple weapon prof and light armor prof that goes away if you take a class level. Not only do these racial levels suck, the bonuses vs giants really don’t make much sense – dwarves in WoW are no more giant-focused than any other race.

Elf, High: These guys are a holdover from the first RPG, I think – it’s clear that these guys aren’t the blood elves (which while introduced in TFT, wouldn’t become a playable race in WoW until Burning Crusade, the first expansion), but are instead the high elves that are hanging around with the alliance in Dalaran and such. They get +2 int and -2 stm, with light light vision, free prof in some swords and bows, +2 to concentration, knowledge (arcane) and spellcraft, and they always get them as class skills, and finally +2 saving throws bonus against mind-affecting spells. That last one is a D&D carryover – I don’t think it’s ever really stated in lore that WoW elves are resistant to mind-affecting magic. High elves also get a -2 to Cha checks against night elves and tauren (because they can “sense the disturbing innate arcane energies”), and have to spend an hour meditating every morning due to their magical addiction or take some penalties to spellcasting and against spells. That’s kind of out of nowhere and is two paragraphs describing something that will never come up in the middle of the rules. Their racial class let’s you be SUPER ELFY with +2 agility, four cantrips, +1 caster level to arcane spells (but not spell progression), and 1/day you get Empower Spell on a spell as you cast it. In short… never take high elf levels.

Elf, Night: +2 spirit and -2 charisma, low light vision, bonuses to knowledge nature and survival, and a bunch of night-elven weapons as martial weapons instead of exotic, night elves continue the pattern of the races being really boring. Their racial levels give them bonuses to balance and tumble, night elven weapon proficiency (again given just by taking martial weapon proficiency), +2 agility, +2 on saves vs arcane magic, +10 to stealth when stationary, and… resistance to cold and fire 2 + ¼ levels? That makes no goddamn sense. Not only is it too tiny to care about, there’s nothing in the lore to suggest night elves are resistant to cold and fire.

Gnome: Small size, +2 int, +2 cha, and -2 str, low light vision, bonus to craft and listen, +1 to all saving throws, and a bonus “technological feat”, gnomes make pretty fucking badass casters. They fit the warlocks and mages that were in WoW, and sorta fit rogues, but gnome warriors aren’t really supported… which is to be expected, really.

Goblin: Listed as a race in this book, but not a playable race in WoW until Cataclysm, the third expansion. They get +2 agility, -2 strength, small size, low light vision, some guns as martial weapons, a bonus technology feat, bonuses to appraise, alchemy, diplomacy, listen (with them always being class skills), +3 to craft technological devices, and +2 to crafting adamantine items, goblins are actually pretty solid for anyone who wants some agility and skills.

Human:Humans get a bonus feat, typical human skill point bonus, +2 vs fear, +2 diplomacy, gather info, knowledge: nobility, all three of those skills always class skills, +2 on craft checks to make mithril items, and +1 to attack rolls against orcs. The new skill bonuses are to match the WoW racial features, although the mithril thing is pretty weird. They are a damn fine racial choice.

Orc: Yaaay, horde at last. Orcs get +2 stamina, -2 intellect, low light vision, +1 rage/day (if they can’t rage, they get a level 1 barbarian rage), +2 handle animal (wolf) and intimidate, 1 attack vs humans, and you get “orc claws” as martial weapons instead of exotic. While the rage is awesome, the handle animal only being towards wolves is weird, and it feels really empty compared to the awesome humans.

Tauren: With +2 str, -2 agility, 1d8 damage horns, tauren halberds as martial weapons, longspears and shortspears for free, +2 on handle animal and survival and them always class features, tauren don’t really get a lot, but they get it where it matters – towards being warriors, shaman, and druid. Their three racial levels give +2 str, +2 spi, +4 saves vs fear, +1/2 strength damage when charging with their horns, being counted as large for charging and bull rushes, and a bonus +4 strength for bull rushes. In short – nothing you will ever care about, again.

Troll, Jungle Trolls get +2 agility, -2 intellect, -2 charisma, low light vision, they heal twice as quickly as normal, +1 to attacks with thrown weapons, +2 to jump, tumble, survival and always a class skill for all three, trolls really seem to get the short end of the stick. Their racial class gives them full BAB (the only one so far!) with good fort/ref, +2 stamina, +1 agility, fast healing 1 at level 2, and fast healing (half stamina mod) at level 3, which may be worth it overall.

Undead, Forsaken: And this is where we get into the crazy. Undead get +2 strength, -2 agility, darkvision, but they count as fully undead; no stamina score, no mind-affecting effects, no crits, the whole deal. And that’s it. So you’re a race that gets a strength bonus but don’t get to have a con score at all. What the fuck do you DO with that? Their racial levels give them +3 natural armor, +3 strength, a 1d6 slam attack (????), and at level 3 you get +1 HD size. Yes, that’s right – undead don’t get all their HD upgraded to d12s. This basically makes them unplayable.

[Whipstitch]

This chapter starts by explaining ability scores, some of which have been renamed; Dex is now Agility (confusingly abbreviated “Agy” instead of “Agi”), Con is now Stamina (abbreviated “Sta” instead of “Stm”), and Wis is now Spirit (“Spt”), to better match WoW.

In all fairness, I don't think I've ever seen anyone abbreviate it "stm," either--people seem to favor "sta" or "stam" because they make more sense phonetically and thus easily translate to spoken nerd slang.

[DragonChild]

Chapter 3: Classes

The chapter start pages are weird, they’re just a different color with a banner that says “Classes in Warcraft” that’s the exact same size as the banner of “Orcs”. But we’ll roll with it and we’re at the fun part that everyone loves, the real meat. Classes are extremely similar to how stuff works in 3.5; three levels of BAB, two types of save progressions, etc. The one weird part is the Healer and Arcanist, which deserve being described before hand.

The Healer and Arcanist are each divided into three different classes; Shaman, Priest, and Druid for the Healer, Mage, Warlock, and Necromancer for the Arcanist. You can multiclass between these sub-classes; that is, you can be a Mage 2/Warlock3/Necromancer 5, if you wish. There’s one Arcanist spell list, and then one spell list for each of the sub-classes. If you don’t have any Necromancer levels – that is, if you’re just a Mage – you can’t cast any Necromancer spells. If you multiclass between the sub-classes, you count the total level of the sub-classes towards your spell slots and caster level. There are some other bonus/penalties depending on the class.

Arcanist: So the Arcanist is your wizard class, divided between Mage, Warlock, and Necromancer. D6 HD, shitty BAB, only good will saves, 2+int skills, but full int-based casting at the same rate a D&D wizard would, and using the spellbook mechanic. For your path choice, spells of your most recent path get +1 DC and any spells you cast from a path outside of the last level you took take a -2 caster level penalty, a -2 save DC penalty, and a 2% times spell level chance of spell failure. There’s also some really confusing wording on how what I THINK it’s trying to say is that every time you get a new spell level, you pick one of your paths, and you get a bonus spell per day from that path specialization, but it’s really badly worded. Scribe scroll and the bonus metamagic/item creation feats still are in, but not familiar; instead, there are some Arcana based on what path you’re advancing. Also if you’re a warlock or necromancer you take a shift towards evil every 5 levels. Which is pretty dumb considering the number of warlocks running around WoW.

Mages get diplomacy and sense motive as bonus skills, can summon a familiar, can call an elemental for a few minutes a day starting at level 4 (the elemental scales slowly, but the fact that it lasts for MINUTES makes it still useful), gets to add their Mage level to counterspell checks (I don’t know what these are yet) at level 8 and can counter with a spell of the same school except for necromancy and conjuration (summoning) – what a weird restriction. At level 12 you get a +1 CL and +2 DCs to your evocations or transmutations, and at level 16 you get an additional spell per level of the cold or fire elemental descriptor prepared with maximize automatically applied for free. Which stacks with the effects of the Maximize Spell feat. And no, Maximize spell did not change, so that makes no goddamn sense.

Necromancers get Bluff and Disguise or Forgery – Disguise I get, Forgery not so much. You get the shitty 1d6*level touch touch, immune to all death spells and death effects, animate death as a supernatural ability at level 8, a +1 caster level and +2 DC for necromancy spells, and create undead and greater create undead at level 16. It’s not entirely clear if the create undead stuff requires spell components, but I think they… don’t? So that’s pretty cool.

Warlocks get Diplomacy and Intimidate, making you wonder why Diplomacy wasn’t just an arcanist class skill. They get a Fel Companion –an evil outsider with HD equal to your warlock level, max of 10 HD. It’s basically a familiar, complete with costing you XP if it dies. It’s kinda nice early on I guess, but the fact that it caps at 10 HD is poor. At level 4 you get Augment Summoning for free, and at level 6 all Conjuration (summoning) spells you cast get x2 duration and it stacks with extend spell. This is annoyingly put into the level 4 class feature because they require some class feature synergy. At level 8 you get to add your ranks in a knowledge skill or spellcraft to the caster level check or charisma check to keep an outsider trapped with binding spells, at level 12 you get the +1 to CL and +2 DCs to conjuration (summoning) spells which who the fuck even cares like fucking seriously they’re summoning spells, and at level 16 you can rebuke or control outsiders like how the PHB has rebuke undead.

The Arcanist spell list is full of abjurations, enchantments, divinations and illusions like Hold Person, Major Image, Dispel Magic, and all your favorites. Mages get all the elemental themed evocations and some buffs, like Fly, Fireball, and Baleful Polymorph. Necromancers get… necromancy spells. There are a LTO of new ones here I’ll cover later. Warlocks get fear and summoning spells, as well as some damage attacks.

Overall – the Arcanist is a damn fine class to play, and all three paths are viable, while not as overall good as a Wizard would be, you can still specialize to be BETTER at whatever it is you want to do than a Wizard would be. Which is damn nice. The only catch is the turn to evil for warlocks and necromancers.

Barbarian: This class is literally the PHB barbarian. The art is an orc who is missing an arm. I feel this is very appropriate. Do not play the barbarian.

Healer: And here’s the other giant 3-in-1 class, representing our Shaman, Druid, and Priest. Despite the fact that Druids had a tank tree, and Shamans had two damage trees, all they really did in classic WoW dungeons was heal, so it’s kind of appropriate. Healers get d8 HD, ¾ BAB, good fort and will, and 4+int skill points. At a base, they only get simple weapons and light armor. They cast divine spells based on Spirit, and know all their spells. For some reason, they chose to keep domains and domain slots in here, too. Each healer type gets a different form of spontaneous casting, turn/rebuke, and domain choices. In addition, healers don’t seem to be able to go multi-path like the arcanists can, and how multiclassing among healer subtypes works isn’t ENTIRELY clear – the book doesn’t come outright and say what you lose, what you keep, what levels you count, etc. Also, all healers start with Brew Potion and get bonus feats every 5 levels can get a metamagic, item creation, or spell focus feat. Yes, that’s better than the arcanist’s choices, no, I don’t know why.

The druid gets handle animal, knowledge nature, stealth, survival, and a +2 bonus to knowledge nature and survival basically meaning they’re the best damn people in the forest ever. They spontaneous cast summon nature’s ally spells, despite WoW druids not really summoning animals ever, at all, in any form. They can turn or rebuke animals and plants. Good druids, for some goddamn reason, can shine so bright that animals and plants can fucking explode, while evil druids merely command the animals and plants. This ALSO makes no goddamn sense to me. I am fairly certain that in the lore, Malfurion does not have the power to make cats pop. Druids can move through natural terrain and start with an animal companion, at level 4 get wildshape only to turn into a large raven or bird of prey (but natural spell still exists, so have fun with that), a nightsaber at level 8, a dire bear at level 11, and an ancient at level 15. At level 8 he can planeshift ALONE into the emerald dream, which is basically just a story function, at level 12 your entire party doesn't leave tracks, and at level 16 you can bring your entire party with you into the emerald dream. Wow, a lot of these class features goddamn suck. Druids eventually don’t age, which… also… isn’t a WoW thing? Why is that even here?

Priests get Gather Information, Sense Motive, and +2 to Diplomacy and Knowledge religion. They spontaneously cast cure or inflict spells, and can turn or rebuke undead. In WoW, it’s the PALADINS who can turn undead, not the priests. The priests can only shackle them, and shadow priests don’t really seem to be affiliated with undead all that strongly. Priests can get a scaling divine bonus to saving throws 1+ spirit mod times per day, which starts at +2 and goes to +11, and that is really fucking awesome. At level 4 they can sacrifice their highest level remaining spell slot, and gain an extremely worthless damage bonus when attacking undead or evil outsiders. They call this ability “smite”, despite the fact that in WoW “Smite” is the spammable, ranged spell attack priests use when they just want to spam some shit. Way to go, WoW RPG. At level 8 you get suggestion as a Spell-like ability, a large saving throw bonus to your party at level 12, and at level 16 you get mass suggestion. This is all over the place, and doesn't fit the flavor at all.

Shamans gets Intimidate, Knowledge nature, Survival, and a bonus to Craft alchemy and Spellcraft. While classic WoW shamans had a lot of quests about drinking weird potions, they were always potions other people made you, so that’s a bit weird. Shamans also get to spontaneously cast cure and afflict, and turn or rebuke elementals. At level 1 they can cast Augury 1/day, at level 4 they can, 1/day, spend a spell slot to give a weapon flaming or frost for a number of rounds equal to 1+Spirit modifier, at level 8 they can polymorph into a ghostwolf (which just uses normal wolf stats) almost whenever they feel like, at level 12 they can use dispel magic (yes, to a max of +10, at level 12?!?!) to dispel beneficial spells whenever he wants, although only once per spell. By level 16, you can sacrifice a 5th level spell slot or higher to cast Resurrection 1/day, which is kind of neat. The shaman powers just… aren't that great.

Healer base spells are your staples – inflict and cure, basic stat buffs, some divinations, status removal, defensive spells. Druid spells come with all the animal and plant stuff you’d expect and some other kind of party buffs. Priest spells are actually a lot more offensive than you’d think, with Hold Person, Death Coil, Heroism, Mana Burn, Magic Weapon, and so on. Shaman has a lot of elemental evocation spells and some other, even more different buffs we’ll cover later. The domains don’t really have anything worth nothing.

Hunter: d8 HD, 4+int skills, simple and martial weapons, light and medium armor, and full BAB. The hunter in WoW is famed for its pet, so of course you don’t get a pet until level 5, when the druid gets theirs at level 1. Because fuck you. The hunter has a bunch of new class features – you get stings, which go from 3/day to 7/day, and basically enchant a ranged attack you make with a poison as you shoot it. You start with Serpent Sting, which deals +1 damage and 1 damage/round for a number of rounds equal to your class level, which is really underwhelming. Scorpid Sting doesn’t come online until level 10, causing the target to make a Fort saved based on your spirit or take 1d4 Str and Agi for a number of rounds equal to your class level, which is really good when you consider you can rapid shot and apply it to every attack, but it gets used up fast. Viper Sting makes you wait until level 20, and causes the target to make a Will save based on your Spirit or be unable to cast spells for one round. At 3rd level you start to get Aspects, which are basically stances you can switch as a free action 1/round during your round. Monkey at level 3 gives you Evasion, Hawk at level 6 gives you +1 damage per three levels with ranged attacks, Beast at level 9 makes you untrackable, Cheetah at level 12 gives you +5ft movement / 5 levels, Pack at level 15 let you flank somebody just by you and your ally standing next to them, and Wilds at level 18 gives you a +4 saving bonus to all saving throws. At level 5 you FINALLY get an animal… with HD equal to or less than your hunter level minus two. The best part is you have to go out and tame it just like WoW, and it takes one round per level of the creature, and you have to make a Handle Animal check (DC 18 + creature’s HD + creature’s Cha bonus) to even tame it. It’s basically just a shitty animal companion, although it does benefit from the Hunter’s aspect. At level 7 you get a bonus to ranged weapon increments and spot checks, and at level 14 you can tame magical beasts, which, you know, is a distinction WoW totally doesn't fucking make at all, and lets you have all sorts of cool crap. In short; don’t fucking play a hunter.

Paladin: Paladins! You remember back when Paladins were only healers, but gave an aggro reduction blessing to raids and thus alliance was just outright better at raiding than Horde? Yeaaaah… So paladins get d10 HD,2+int skills, good fort, full BAB, awesome proficiencies, and a whole ton of new class features. They get Detect Undead instead of Detect Evil, which is appropriate, and Smite has been changed to Holy Strike – which deals 1d6 points of damage +1/level, and counts as good aligned. You can still only use it a few times per day, and the accuracy loss sucks. Divine Grace is still there at level 2, and at level 3 you get an Aura, which now work totally different. In WoW, you had a bunch of different auras that you could pick only one of that helped your whole party passively, and Blessings that you could cast a different one on each person but you had to constantly reapply on people every 15 minutes because fuck your quality of life. They have just sort of been rolled together and had some new ones added here. Auras have a range of 5 feet per cha mod, is a free action to turn on, lasts a number of turns equal to your level, and you can only have one at a time. They start at 1/day and go up to 6/day. At level 3 you get Might (+1 damage/3levels), at level 6 you get Devotion (+1 AC/3 levels but it’s deflection so you don’t care), at level 9 Healing (fast healing 1), at level 12 Retribution (enemies attacking you in melee take 2d4+1/level damage, goes up to 3d4 and 4d4 eventually), at level 15 Resistance (spell resistance 5 + level), at level 18 Wisdom ( when you cast a spell the paladin makes a spirit check, DC 10 + 2x spell level, if successful the spell slot is not expanded, a natural roll of 5 or less always fails). Yeah that’s pretty obscure. Might and Retribution are basically the ones you care about here. At level 3 you get immunity to disease, including magical disease, which I’m pretty sure goes against all sorts of canon. At level 4 you get to Turn Undead, WORSE than the priest, despite Turn Undead being a PALADIN ability in WoW. At level 4 you also get lay on hands, which drains all your spell slots and heals the target for 5*the combined sum of your spell slot levels. You cast spells basically identical to a PHB paladin so you don’t give a fuck at all. At level 5 you get Crusader Strike, which makes it so every holy strike beyond the first you hit someone with get (cha bonus * number of holy strike hits) bonus to damage. There is no actual limit listed on how far apart those holy strikes have to be. At level 7 you get Bash as a bonus feat which we’ll get to later. The paladin Code of Conduct and Associates is copied from the PHB, despite there being plenty of evil paladins in WoW – between Arthas, the Scarlet Crusade, and Dark Iron Dwarves, the idea of good-only paladins is just silly and not fitting the lore at all. Also – don’t play a paladin.

Rogue: The rogue is basically the PHB rogue to start, except “Sneak Attack” has been renamed to “Backstab” because why the hell not, let’s ignore that Backstab was a dagger-only ability anyway. Everything you expect from the rogue is here, except special abilities have been changed and are every 3 levels instead. Crippling strike (sneak attacks deal 2 points Str damage), Improved Evasion, Opportunist (hit an enemy who’s just been struck), Skill Mastery, and any feat as a bonus feat are all really powerful choices. Really powerful. Two weapon fighting with opportunist and Crippling Strike is just absolutely going to SHRED enemies in melee. There are also some really awful choices, including really bizarrely made “Stalk”, a power that lets you cast invisibility on yourself but make a stealth check vs a DC of (10 + enemy level or HD + spirit mod + int mod) of any creature you move within 5 feet of, and make you only move 10 feet per round. However, you can use it a number of times per day equal to half your level and you can use it when being observed as long as enemies are more than 30 feet away, so there may be some use in it. The Rogue, in short, is extremely, extremely fucking powerful.

Scout: A carry-over from the older RPG. Scouts get d8 HD, 6+int skill points, ¾ BAB, good fort and reflex, and a deep sense of shame. At level 1 they get Track and +2 to knowledge nature and survival as class features, basically contributing nothing to the team. At level 2, if you have 5 ranks of survival, you can make a DC 15 survival check to search for one hour, prepare a bunch of plant shit, make a DC 10 heal check, and have somebody heal 1 HP for every point your heal check exceeds 10. And you can only use it on one person at a time and each person only once per day. Yes, that is way too complicated. You eventually get Woodland stride, Trackless Step, Uncanny Dodge, Trap Sense, Locate Object, Swift Tracker, Evasion (at level fucking 12!), Poison Immunity, blah blah, the point is you NEVER GET ANYTHING TO HELP WITH COMBAT, EVER. Levels 15 and 19 are BLANK even. Holy god this class is just outright awful.

Tinker: The WoW RPG folks really have a hardon for this overly complex piece of shit. There are some whole giant technological rules that involve crafting shit I’ll get to later but I’ll just describe how this class works for now and get to the crafting later. The tinker is a d6 HD, 8+int skills, good ref/will, 3/4th BAB class with all sorts of bizarre class features and unique mechanics. They have simple weapon proficiency, and nothing but. At level 1 they start with a bonus technological or exotic weapon feat, and that’s it. At level 2, they get +5 str for the purpose of carrying capacity and can use a Search check to gather random materials that can be used as raw materials with a price equal to half the tinker’s level x 50 gp for the custom tech crafting rules. Why not tinker level x 25 gp? Because fuck you. At level 3 in a limited amount of time that recharges per week, you can make items once every hour instead of once every week, but give them +5 to malfunction with an additional +1 every time you use it, and you can’t fix that. At level 4, you get double range to grenade like weapons and Evasion. At level 5, you can take 10 on any roll that involves a technological device 1/day, up to 8/day. At level 6 you get resist 5 to ONE type of energy, well into the realm of nobody giving a fuck. You get additional resistances later on, in packs of 5 you can put wherever and still not care. Later you get improved evasion and that’s that. Notice how none of these class features are all that good at just making craft checks and shit as a rogue would be who can take 10 on skill checks whenever he damn well pleases at level 3, let alone having to wait until level 5 and doing it 1/day. Even if you want to play with the creation rules, just be a rogue!

Warrior: This is the PHB fighter. Literally, that’s it. You are just the PHB fighter. Just play a Rogue instead, for the love of god.

This class, in summary; your party is composed of Arcanists, Healers, and Rogues. If anyone wants to play a tinker, take them out back and beat them.


Next up: Prestige classes!

[icyshadowlord]

I'm looking forward to the talk about Prestige Classes...

[Koumei]

I thought this was the WoW RPG:

Oh come on, someone had to do it. I was surprised it wasn't mentioned in the first post.

[DragonChild]

Koumei I wouldn't make a joke like that. I actually like World of Warcraft...

[icyshadowlord]

Same here, though it was less fun when my older brother got addicted to it and made me run raids on his behalf when he couldn't do so himself.

[Bihlbo]

Aside from the MMO, I don't see what makes the setting interesting. I look forward to the review of that part.

[DragonChild]

Honestly that can't really be covered much in the book, but I do think the Warcraft universe is an interesting setting because it has a lot going on. You have multiple warring factions, all sorts of interesting and iconic bad guys and locations to use, and a lot of people are familiar with it. There's a lot of locations that you could likely run an entire campaign in, that only take up one zone in WoW. This book doesn't really spend a lot of time on the setting, only the opening introduction, but other books in the series do.

[Prak]

Well, for me, it's small stuff- Orcs are a totally legitimate thing you can play, aren't a vaguely racist pastiche* and, mechanically, don't get hosed like a black protester in the fifties, Goblins will still take flak, but they're not portrayed being particularly stupid, and the reason that people dislike them seems to be more "their dialect of common is annoying, and they tend to make things that explode unintentionally." Being someone who is tired of "human/elf/dwarf go out to save the day from those stupid savages" set ups, I like that, even if only one side of the fight actually differs from that**. They also get points for playable undead.


*well, ok, maybe a little bit, if you consider the "noble savage" archetype racist
**There are two reasons I dislike the Alliance, the first is the fact that it's "Mighty Whitey (the humans), his nearly white allies (gnomes, dwarves, elves) and a couple token minorities (Tauren, later Worgen) go and shake down people with funny skin colours (orcs, goblins, trolls, undead)." I'm really tired of that, since I kind of identify with goblins. The other is that MMO Alliance players seem to be primarily 12 year old boys.

[codeGlaze]

I have to wonder if Blizzard is subtley trying to convey that the Alliance is really the 'bad' side... if there is one.

This is coming from a former Horde player though... so take that as you will.

...although the Horde definitely has moral ambiguity in... several areas.

[Prak]

I always saw the Alliance as more wrong, since, from what I know of the backstory, they repeatedly went around wrecking up native tribal societies. I mean, sure, the Orcs were probably pretty warlike too, but a group of tribes that are on hostile footing is a bit different from a civilization formerly unknown by the tribes rolling in with advanced technology and forcing them to change their way of life.

[Judging__Eagle]

4e D&D has more in common with League of Legends and Fighting Games like Mortal Combat or Street Fighter; in terms of it's strategic and tactical depth than it does with the frightening complexity that MMOs like EQ or even ez-mode MMO's like WoW have.

Games like EQ can combine the most difficult elements of FPS, introduce elements like having to spam multiple target crowd control, while also limiting many characters to dealing their best damage only in melee.

You don't spam the same 4 abilities over and over in an MMO; only the worst noobs do that.

Which I'm guessing is where Mearls got his cues; playing an easy mode class like a Hunter. Which are labelled in WoW as 'Huntards' for a reason (the class is so easy to play solo, that when they get into groups, they often screw everything up b/c they don't know how to actually play the game in groups.

Which is perfectly understandable, since the Hunter class operates at such a different level than the other classes; that it's a joke to even begin to compare them on the same playing field as the other classes. I've been able to take on 5x as many monsters in a single fight and survive with a Pet-class; than I could with any other class (probably save paladins; which are more like 3.0 D&D clerics with self-heals, warrior weapons, and chain/plate armour; and are pretty powerful as tanks, dps or healers)

Hunters are universally op, and are one of the few classes that can (with their pet) fight monsters so much higher level than themselves that the game engine won't give the character XP for the encounter. I had a friend tell me about that happening with her pet; she aggro'd some sort of giant from a higher level zone across a river, and basically just Pet-healed, while her pet tanked/dps'd, for the entire fight. her character didn't get XP, b/c it was 5+ levels higher than her character, and instead of a "level", the symbol was a little drawing of a skull (denoting that facing it is sure death).

Instead of Guitar-Heroing the same 4 buttons you have some array of long and short chains of actions (anywhere from 5-40 abilities per character class/specialization) that you have to modify based on how the encounter or your timers or ability 'procs' are going.

Healing is like a game of inverse whack-a-mole; combined with the skill to assess and triage the most important people to keep, and who to let die in an encounter (tanks > shitty DPS; good DPS > shitty tanks; shitty DPS = let die).

Seriously though; if you can fight an encounter and it's "boring"/easy; that's a 'good' thing; it means the group knows how to deal with the monsters without reacting badly. The hardest thing to do in most MMOs is to "learn" the encounter; it's an obstacle course, often with hidden surprises.

4e would probably benefit from actually trying to be like WoW or EQ in many respects; instead of being a game that pretends, badly, that it is like either.

As for the WoW RPG for d20.

The "tinkerer" chapter is hilariously interesting, and has the potential to be busted; but only if the whole party is willing to pool their treasure for the tinkerer to build the group some sort of vehicle/mech/robot army they can all use.

After a single level 1 adventure, my Goblin was able to make for the party a flying gyrocopter that could:

-Carry the whole party (max weight minotaur, my goblin, troll + several 100 lbs of gear/loot); it had a lot of carry capacity
-Mounted with multiple 1d6 damage "gun-banks" (since 'more' damage guns are harder to make and costs more; but lots of cheap guns that are linked to fire at the same time aren't)
-Can fly!

We never played past that first adventure; but I copied down the relevant rules on how to build stuff; it's pretty interesting, and the rules allow for the player to make many of the Warcraft style steampunk engines; like lumber cutting mechs; submarines; flying balloons; and even has the possibility of creating intelligent creatures.

If anything, the WoW rule on inventions is what Eberron should have included if it wanted Warforged to exist; instead of being arbitrarium handwavium created out by magical factories made out of unobtanium.

[Whipstitch]

Re: Alliance and Horde.

Prak, you sound like you learned your Warcraft fluff from someone who spends all their time writing thrall/grom slashfic. The trolls did indeed get the short end of the stick at the hands of the first Alliance around 3,000 years prior to game events, back when just about everyone was a bunch of warring nomads who raided each other all the time. It was basically the Warcraft pre-classical age--everyone was busy doing horrible crap all the time on the grounds that they could get away with it. Basically, the elves and trolls are like the Hatfields and the McCoys.

So while the above is certainly a mark against the Alliance, the horde have their own marks against them given that the orcs started out as capital "B" bad guys. That's because one of the Blizzard co-founders initially wanted to secure a Warhammer license but eventually went in another direction when it became clear that the possibility of having their own IP was preferable to accepting GW's licensing conditions. But nevertheless, the orcs remained literal maniacs hopped up on demon blood* who killed their way across their planet before hopping a portal to Azeroth. So within in-universe living memory, the original Alliance was just a distant memory until a second one was formed in response to demon-backed orc imperialists surprise attacking the humans so hard that they literally fled a continent.

Now, since then, there's been revelations of a more peaceful and vibrant orcish culture that existed before they decided to murder their way across two planets, and a concerted move to reclaim and celebrate that. Which, you know, is a nice development, and why I don't consider Orc Jesus to be a villain. More recent developments feature a ton of material on how plenty of people in the Horde are totes reliable and would make good neighbors. In fact, a lot of them are nicer than many Alliance thuggish nobles who were happy to take advantage of the war-footing to secure more power for themselves. Thing is, the orcs kinda needed that recent TLC on the part of the writers to start bringing them up to a rough parity with the Alliance so they could you know, have an MMO where it makes sense for horde and alliance players to both go kill some Big Bad on the grounds that they are in fact bad.


*Incidentally, since then it's been revealed (or retconned in, depending on how charitable you are feeling) that many of the orc "heroes" of the First War were actually free of demonic taint. I'm not sure how that's very heroic given that if anything that means they didn't even have the lame excuse of being on brain-benders or having demons assuming direct control when they followed the orders of Murderfuck the Violator or whatever the hell their sergeant happened to be named.

[DragonChild]

Let's not get into alliance horde bullshit arguments here please. Any further "Who is really good, who is really evil?" will be taken to mean "I don't want you to continue doing this review". The setting is deliberately written such that everyone has their moments of good and evil. Leave it at that. Discussion about 4e also really has no fucking place here and has been hashed over a lot of times already - if people want to talk about stuff you could take from WoW and use WELL, however, that'd be different.

[Chamomile]

And more than that, Blizzard retcons things with such frequency that any specific act of good and evil you point to may well not be there anymore when the next expansion comes out.

[Whipstitch]

And more than that, Blizzard retcons things with such frequency that any specific act of good and evil you point to may well not be there anymore when the next expansion comes out.

This. I don't have a dog in that fight. It's just funny to me when people crap on the Alliance while ignoring that the Horde is only remotely sympathetic because they switched to an entirely different political identity midstream.

[TheFlatline]

And more than that, Blizzard retcons things with such frequency that any specific act of good and evil you point to may well not be there anymore when the next expansion comes out.

This. I don't have a dog in that fight. It's just funny to me when people crap on the Alliance while ignoring that the Horde is only remotely sympathetic because they switched to an entirely different political identity midstream.

Interesting lesson in propaganda right?

[Prak]

And more than that, Blizzard retcons things with such frequency that any specific act of good and evil you point to may well not be there anymore when the next expansion comes out.

This. I don't have a dog in that fight. It's just funny to me when people crap on the Alliance while ignoring that the Horde is only remotely sympathetic because they switched to an entirely different political identity midstream.

I just have a very shallow knowledge of WoW's history. The reason I like horde is seriously because "human/elf/dwarf" is boring to me and the fact that a lot of alliance players are insufferable.

[Whipstitch]

I just have a very shallow knowledge of WoW's history. The reason I like horde is seriously because "human/elf/dwarf" is boring to me and the fact that a lot of alliance players are insufferable.

Yeah, I should stress that I was being super literal when I said you probably just got your info from bad sources, since there is nothing shameful about not bothering to actually learn WoW lore. Anyway, as someone who's raided with both factions--we started out horde and went alliance for the pally buffs then switched again for shits and giggles for burning crusade--I kinda feel like horde players are even worse, but that's probably just a familiarity breeds contempt thing since I ultimately spent more time as horde--both sides are pulled from the same pool of players whether they admit it or not. Lemme put it this way: in my experience, the archetypal Alliance player is some self-centered twat while Horde players are elitist shitheads with a deeply rooted persecution complex. Basically, Alliance players always talk about how awesome they are and how the damn queue is taking too long, while Horde players focus their bizarre nerd rage outwards onto largely imaginary enemies. It made guild recruitment an interesting exercise--Alliance players never seemed to be as good as they thought they were while Horde players were just enormous drama queens.

[DragonChild]

I am pretty sure I asked that to please stop. Instead of talking about alignment, let's talk about how goddamn awful this chapter is:

Chapter 4: Prestige Classes

Now we have some delicious prestige classes to tear into, to add onto the useless class bloat.

Archmage of Kirin Tor: This is literally just the 3.5 DMG Archmage class. The ability to cast spells from at least five school is REALLY awkward without multiclassing now, suggesting most archmages are going to become multiclasses Arcanists… except the fact that necromancers and warlocks aren’t allowed to take the class, despite the fact that there are totally a ton of them in fiction who fall to the dark side with evil spells and yada yada. But otherwise there’s nothing new here.

Assassin: Was there really a need for a special assassin PrC here, too? You still have to be evil, and the requirements are changed to “The character must kill someone for no other reason than to gain profit through a contract killing”, ignoring the fact that the most famous assassin in lore, Garona, killed people due to basically being a raised slave/puppet of Gul’Dan. The evil shit is stupid too, because people want to play subtlety rogues, which basically have death attack. Duuumb. From what I can see, this is basically just the 3.5 Assassin PrC, because lazy. Fun fact; these guys get Bloodlust, which is basically the Haste spell, and is also castable by Mages and Shamans. In WoW, Shamans had bloodlust in Burning Crusade, and Mages and Rogues ended up getting it in Cataclysm, two expansions later.

Beastmaster: You need to be horde or night elf to get in, and can take your first beastmaster level at level 6. It’s a d12 HD, full BAB 10 level class. You get an animal companion levels, which means coming in here as a barbarian doesn’t do you shit, and coming in here as a hunter means the druid’s pet will STILL be better. You can get charm animal way too late to be interesting, empathic link that eventually goes to any animals you befriend, shitty claws or bite that nobody gives a damn about, speak with animals, and oh man oh man you get to cast MAGIC FANG 1/day at character level 12 whoop de fucking do. It eventually becomes greater magic fang but you don’t give a shit. Don’t play a beastmaster.

Berserker: What is the point. What is the goddamn point of having a berserker class AND a barbarian class? In order to be a berserker you have to be an orc or troll who’s non-lawful and part of the horde, and at least level 6 with the ability to rage. At level one your rages/day are set to 3 or whatever your current number of rages are, at level 2 you get diehard, and your first berserk ability (you get more at 4, 6, 8, and 10). These are actually pretty decent; Rancor gives you +2 strength and stamina when raging and an extra attack at -5, but -4 more AC; Ogre’s Grip lets you wield bigger weapons… and that’s actually all the good ones. You can get a shitty whirlwind that hits friends and deals you stamina damage, a pathetic speed boost that deals you agility damage, and an awful “hit everyone along a charge” attack that deals you strength damage. Levels 3 and 9 are blank, even. As an orc going into Berserker just to pick up Rancor and two more rages for two levels might not be a bad deal, but otherwise stop there.

Duelist: Oh look, another core D&D prestige class that you should never, ever take.

Elven Ranger: For night elves and high elves who are part of the alliance only, because fuck youuuu Sylvanus. To get in you need 6 ranks of nature skills, PBS and Track, and +5 BAB. It’s a d8 HD, 4+int skills, full BAB class. You get shitty nature spells that go up to level 4, +10ft to your range increments per level after far shot, all arrows keen at level 4, woodland stride, swift tracker, the… ability to use your bow as a club in melee at level 6? … +4 init at level 8, and ARROW CLEAVE at level 10 which does exactly as you’d expect. Then there are the inexplicable class features - like getting Rapid Shot at level 1? What the fuck were you DOING with your feats up until now? You also get five favored enemies, but even though their skill bonus goes up to +10, their damage bonus stays at +2.

Fel Sworn: Awww yeah, the being a demon dude class. Anybody can get into it, you just need one level of warlock or to have been exposed to fel energy. It has d6 HD, 4+int skills, and full BAB, which is… odd. Each level you take makes you MORE EVIL, and you count as an evil outsider. There are five levels to the class, and at each level you basically just get to pick a boon. The boons mostly suck. A fire breath that deals 1d4 damage per PrC level, save for half, with no listed range? 1d4 damage fangs? 1d6 damage claws or horns? A 1d6 damage tail that gives +2 balance and, I quote “in addition to looking pretty cool”? Darkvision? The only ones worth taking are the +3 enhancement bonus to natural armor, the 20 ft flight speed that goes up by +10 ft every time you take it again, or the become Large sie and get +4 str, +2 stm, -2 wis. A pretty far call from being an awesome fel orc like in WC3.

Gladiator: Note that this book came out before the honor system, battlegrounds, or arenas were a thing. The gladiator class is based entirely off the fact that Thrall was once a gladiator and then that was never really mentioned again. The book does suggest that Horde gladiators are Blademasters – the terrifying WC3 hero that could turn invisible and assassinate anyone with massive crits and later become a magical immune whirlwind to eat enemies apart. You need to have Cleave, Dodge, and Power Attack, as well as +5 BAB to get into the Gladiator class. It gives you 2+int skills, d10 HD, full BAB and good fort. At level 1 you get Supreme Cleave, which lets you take your five foot step in between cleaves, which is cute but not great. Level 2 lets you, and no actual action type is listed, give a +1 to +5 bonus to attack to your allies for 1+your cha mod rounds 1/day, and only ever 1/day. Level 3 lets you deal double strength to damage when using a two handed weapon. The gladiator in the art is shown holding two axes. Level 3 gives you, 1/day, when you score a crit you can make it +1d4 damage, eventually up to +4d4 4/day. That is so tiny as to be pathetic. Level 3, 6, and 9 give you weapon focus because fuck youuuuuu. Level 4, 6, 8, and 10, even more hilariously give you an exotic weapon proficiency. And at level 4 you get fucking mobility, and at level 5 and 10 weapon specialization. All of these are likely for your SECONDARY weapons so who gives a fuck. Level 6 lets you maximize damage 1/day to 3/day, declared before an attack. And at level 7 you get spring attack, and 10 whirlwind? This is honestly just insulting. “Turn invisible, stab dudes, rune around shirtless, whirlwind” is the core of the concept and this does NONE of it.

Infiltrator: This is an alliance only class that just requires a bunch of skills to get in, can be taken starting at level 6, gives d6 HD, 6+int skills, and ¾ BAB. It gets the duelist bullshit “Int to AC when naked up to your class level”, which is basically just “You wear a mithril shirt”. You also get to roll for connections 1/day, which hilariously include Thrall as an example. At level 2 you get uncanny dodge and a +1 competence bonus to a social skill because aaaargh. You continue to get a +1 to a social skill every level after because aaaargh tiny bonuses. At level 3 you get a +4 competency to disguise and can take 10 on disguise checks, and let’s ignore that Skill Mastery is something you can have for 6+twice your int skills by the time you take the first level of this class. You continue to get bullshit stuff like slippery mind, suggestion, a minor social power, and then inexplicably dominate person 1/day at level 10. Not worth it, however.

Mounted Warrior: The art for this class is a night elven woman wearing nothing but a bikini, g-string, thigh highs, and elbow-length gloves rubbing her crotch onto the back of a giant cat. I just thought Koumei would like to know. It’s another fairly typical warrior-style PrC you need +5 BAB to get into. At level 1 you get a somewhat better than normal mount, at level 2 you get Mounted Expertise which lets you move bonuses between your AC and Attack when mounted up to your BAB and oh god why did they do that, yes Spirited Charge and bonus charge damage lances and Power Attack ARE in this book, and then you get some bonus feats and other class features you honestly don’t give a damn about at all because that’s it, that’s level 2, you’re done. Also there is another piece of art with a gnome mage on a mechanostrider that, despite being a guy who is mounted, does not apply to this class at all.

[Whipstitch]

I am pretty sure I asked that to please stop. Instead of talking about alignment, let's talk about how goddamn awful this chapter is:.

Don't be a baby, we're not even really arguing. Prak and I compare notes on how people are awful all the time. It's a misanthrope thing, it's not a big deal.

[icyshadowlord]

Dragon, I believe you got the Gladiator mixed up with the Blademaster there, and I think the latter might be in a setting-related splatbook somewhere.

[Prak]

After you'd given the ultimatum, I switched from arguing which was better to simply stating I have shallow information about both, to then leave it alone.