Worst Official DM NPCs In Published RPG Settings

[WalkTheDinosaur]

So, we talked about the Lady of Pain and Elminster. Are there any other infamous Penis Extension NPCs in D&D?

I'll nominate most of the gods from Forgotten Realms.

Really any god based on D&D's default assumptions qualifies. You can't beat them in a fight because they're Level : Fuck You (take whatever level you think the game gets too crazy to be playable and add ten or twenty to that). They have portfolio sense and big undefined lists of spells and other resources so there's no way to stop them from being aware of your adventures, and they have humanlike motivations so they care about the same kinds of things you care about. Whatever you did as a PC, you were allowed to do because the gods didn't think it was important enough to stop you.

[ColorBlindNinja61]

The module I've been playing in recently has Iuz show up, knock the players about a bit (without a proper stat block), and then get immediately defeated by a, uh... Machina Ex Deus.

That sounds insufferable.

So, we talked about the Lady of Pain and Elminster. Are there any other infamous Penis Extension NPCs in D&D?

I'll nominate most of the gods from Forgotten Realms.

Really any god based on D&D's default assumptions qualifies. You can't beat them in a fight because they're Level : Fuck You (take whatever level you think the game gets too crazy to be playable and add ten or twenty to that). They have portfolio sense and big undefined lists of spells and other resources so there's no way to stop them from being aware of your adventures, and they have humanlike motivations so they care about the same kinds of things you care about. Whatever you did as a PC, you were allowed to do because the gods didn't think it was important enough to stop you.

I don't know about that. D&D 3.X gods have terrible builds. You could probably kill them with a character half their level.

[merxa]

I'll nominate most of the gods from Forgotten Realms.

Really any god based on D&D's default assumptions qualifies. You can't beat them in a fight because they're Level : Fuck You (take whatever level you think the game gets too crazy to be playable and add ten or twenty to that). They have portfolio sense and big undefined lists of spells and other resources so there's no way to stop them from being aware of your adventures, and they have humanlike motivations so they care about the same kinds of things you care about. Whatever you did as a PC, you were allowed to do because the gods didn't think it was important enough to stop you.

I don't know about that. D&D 3.X gods have terrible builds. You could probably kill them with a character half their level.

[Foxwarrior]

I don't know about that. D&D 3.X gods have terrible builds. You could probably kill them with a character half their level.

Yeah, but how often do you get to play a 15th level character?

[ColorBlindNinja61]

I don't know about that. D&D 3.X gods have terrible builds. You could probably kill them with a character half their level.

Yeah, but how often do you get to play a 15th level character?

I've run two campaigns that reached level 15+ at this point and I'm hoping to have two more in the near future.

Wizard 20/Fighter 20 is a terrible build. Those feats are awful too. Thank you for proving my point.

[PhoneLobster]

And I bet my dad could totally beat up your dad a 20 Wiz/20 Fighter/20 Outsider HD/19 Divine Ranks/who-cares-what-they-selected.

What with my dad being my 15th level "Optimized" character that never did the sub optimal mistake of adding 20 levels of a character class, 20 HD of monster and 19 Divine ranks that don't synergise with wizard (but are for free, and extra on top of an additional 5 levels of wizard in the first place).

By making that mistake and selecting some bad feats among the countless additional feats that chump of a god has more than my optimal 15th level character he sealed his doooom.

No no, my optimized character really is that good, I'm not shit talking here, and it wouldn't turn out to be wild overconfidence or some sort of bullshit exploit that would never fly. My character would just walk up and punch him to death. With his balls.

While my unstoppable god killing 15th level optimized character's balls are on the tip of my tongue, did I mention I'm TOTALLY outraged at DM penis extension NPCs and their masturbatory nature?

[Foxwarrior]

No no, my optimized character really is that good, I'm not shit talking here, and it wouldn't turn out to be wild overconfidence or some sort of bullshit exploit that would never fly. My character would just walk up and punch him to death. With his balls.

I mean, I've seen it. Instead of waiting for Kyuss, god of worms, to pop out of his lair, where the players were then supposed to collect a bunch of big buffs from NPCs to just barely defeat him in a climactic battle, they just popped into Kyuss's lair and merc'd him in one round.

That aside, you're making a pretty good point there.

[WalkTheDinosaur]

Yeah, but how often do you get to play a 15th level character?

Exactly. Even if you could beat up Odin at level 15 (which, this version, you pretty much can't), you're expected to do things that Odin and like fifty other gods might care about at much lower level than that.

You could do the "demon lord" setup where they're stuck on the Outer Planes unless summoned and all they can really do is send and receive information from mortals. If the PCs break their shit, they don't know about it until one of their cultists casts Commune, if they need something done they have to tell a cultist to do it, if they need to send in an outsider they have to get a cultist who can Planar Ally it in. That lets you have a deific antagonist with enough limits and fog of war to justify keeping the encounters level appropriate. No reason you couldn't handle Odin or Tiamat the same way.

Wizard 20/Fighter 20 is a terrible build. Those feats are awful too. Thank you for proving my point.

Dude, you need to read the rest of that stat block, not just the shit that jumps out at charoppers.

[Dogbert]

Friendly reminder: 3.X dnd deities are defacto immune to magic from people of lesser divine rank than them, are defacto indestructible by muggles, their divine rank is a bonus on all checks, and rules for acquiring divinity all boil down to "GM fiat"... so "punching a god in the jaw" is a premise that's completely dependent on MTP including finding "god slaying weapons" since their availability is on GM fiat as well.

If a GM wants to cockslap you with a deity, there's nothing you can do about it even if they are the "god of gimps" with sub optimal builds.

[Kevin Mack]

Well whilst were on the subject of gods Iolomodae from Pathfinders wrath of the righteous the deity that kidnaps you and forces you to go through a pop quiz and gives a 'slap on the wrist' (That would turn your average commoner into chunky salsa) If you talk back or show any disrespect.

[SlyJohnny]

Harlequin from Shadowrun is there solely to be better than you. The videogames presented an interpretation of his character that wasn't obnoxious, though.

[ColorBlindNinja61]

Dude, you need to read the rest of that stat block, not just the shit that jumps out at charoppers.

Thank you for implying I didn't read the rest of the statblock. I did, it's still laughably bad.

Friendly reminder: 3.X dnd deities are defacto immune to magic from people of lesser divine rank than them

No they aren't. I don't know why people think this, but it isn't true.

Possess Mortal
Prerequisites
Cha 29.

Benefit
The deity can possess any mortal in any location the deity can sense. Unwilling mortals can attempt Will saves (DC 10 + the deity’s Charisma modifier + the deity’s rank).

Notes
Spells that prevent possession block this ability if the mortal is unwilling.

Emphasis mine.

EDIT: There's nothing under the Divine Ranks section that implies they're immune, either. At best, they can bypass the divine immunities of gods with lower divine ranks.

[merxa]

Life and Death
The deity can kill a mortal creature almost anywhere. Likewise, the
deity can bestow life upon any dead mortal being almost any-
where.
Prerequisites: Divine rank 6, Gift of Life or Hand of Death
salient divine ability.
Benefit: The deity designates any mortal and snuffs out its
life. Or the deity can designate any dead mortal and restore it
to life.
Notes: This ability works across planar boundaries and pene-
trates any barrier except a divine shield. However, the subject
must be in a location the deity can sense, either within the
deity’s sense range or in a location the deity can perceive
through its remote sensing ability. If the deity cannot see the
subject, the deity must unambiguously identify the subject in
some fashion, such as by reciting the subject’s time and place of
birth or death, listing the subject’s notable or infamous deeds, or
something similar.
If the deity chooses to kill a mortal, the ability works like the
destruction spell, except that there is no material component or
saving throw. The mortal cannot be raised or resurrected afterward,
except by a deity of equal or higher rank using the Gift of Life or
Life and Death salient divine ability.
If the deity restores life to a mortal, this ability works like the
true resurrection spell, except that there is no material component
and the amount of time the subject has been dead is irrelevant.
This ability cannot restore a creature to life against its will, but it
can resurrect an elemental or outsider. It can resurrect a creature
whose soul is trapped (as the trap the soul spell in the Player’s Hand-
book), provided the soul is not held by a deity of higher rank than
the one using this ability.
This ability cannot restore life to a creature that has been slain
by the Hand of Death, Life and Death, or Mass Life and Death abil-
ity of a deity with a higher rank.
Rest: After using either version of this ability, the deity must
rest for 1 minute per level or Hit Die of the creature affected.
Deities whose portfolio includes death do not have to rest after
using this ability.
Suggested Portfolio Elements: Death, supreme.

[ColorBlindNinja61]

Life and Death
The deity can kill a mortal creature almost anywhere. Likewise, the
deity can bestow life upon any dead mortal being almost any-
where.
Prerequisites: Divine rank 6, Gift of Life or Hand of Death
salient divine ability.
Benefit: The deity designates any mortal and snuffs out its
life. Or the deity can designate any dead mortal and restore it
to life.
Notes: This ability works across planar boundaries and pene-
trates any barrier except a divine shield. However, the subject
must be in a location the deity can sense, either within the
deity’s sense range or in a location the deity can perceive
through its remote sensing ability. If the deity cannot see the
subject, the deity must unambiguously identify the subject in
some fashion, such as by reciting the subject’s time and place of
birth or death, listing the subject’s notable or infamous deeds, or
something similar.
If the deity chooses to kill a mortal, the ability works like the
destruction spell, except that there is no material component or
saving throw. The mortal cannot be raised or resurrected afterward,
except by a deity of equal or higher rank using the Gift of Life or
Life and Death salient divine ability.
If the deity restores life to a mortal, this ability works like the
true resurrection spell, except that there is no material component
and the amount of time the subject has been dead is irrelevant.
This ability cannot restore a creature to life against its will, but it
can resurrect an elemental or outsider. It can resurrect a creature
whose soul is trapped (as the trap the soul spell in the Player’s Hand-
book), provided the soul is not held by a deity of higher rank than
the one using this ability.
This ability cannot restore life to a creature that has been slain
by the Hand of Death, Life and Death, or Mass Life and Death abil-
ity of a deity with a higher rank.
Rest: After using either version of this ability, the deity must
rest for 1 minute per level or Hit Die of the creature affected.
Deities whose portfolio includes death do not have to rest after
using this ability.
Suggested Portfolio Elements: Death, supreme.

It's a death effect. Blocked by Death Ward.

EDIT: Since merxa is an idiot, I'll spell it out for them; the salient divine ability works as the Destruction spell. Which is a death effect. Ergo, blocked by Death Ward and other abilities that counter death effects.

[ColorBlindNinja61]

If you guys want to argue that any tactic that would be strong enough to kill a god would be shut down in an actual game, fine. I'll concede that. I was thinking in the context of a game with a high level of optimization when I said you could probably kill a 3.X god with a character half their level.

[Kaelik]

I have missed weird pissing contests about D&D.

But I really want to point out that the god in question has Alter Reality, which means it has at will literally every spell in the game.

Now, certainly, it's not impossible to defeat such a god played badly, but I seriously doubt the credentials of anyone who sees that the God in question has at will every single spell level 0-9 in the game and just goes "OF COURSE I can beat it easy. No problem. It could not possibly leverage that ability to defeat me."

It obviously is the case that well run, this deity would definitely be just as "unkillable" as you are (except more) and could mimic whatever thing you think you are going to do to kill it. So either neither of you can kill the other, or both of you can kill the other, or only the God can kill you (because it has a bunch of benefits that you don't have like rolling a 20 on all saves no matter what or it's portfolio sense or whatever).

But under no circumstances do you have a situation in which you can definitely kill it and it can't kill you.

[ColorBlindNinja61]

But I really want to point out that the god in question has Alter Reality, which means it has at will literally every spell in the game.

Now, certainly, it's not impossible to defeat such a god played badly, but I seriously doubt the credentials of anyone who sees that the God in question has at will every single spell level 0-9 in the game and just goes "OF COURSE I can beat it easy. No problem. It could not possibly leverage that ability to defeat me."

Which would be why I said, "probably" kill it.

If a god intelligently uses its Alter Reality ability, it's effectively unkillable.

If they don't, it's more than possible to kill them, barring certain Divine Salient Abilities few 3.X gods possess.

EDIT: Again, with the caveat that the tactics that would allow one to kill a god will likely be banned in most games.

It obviously is the case that well run, this deity would definitely be just as "unkillable" as you are (except more) and could mimic whatever thing you think you are going to do to kill it. So either neither of you can kill the other, or both of you can kill the other, or only the God can kill you (because it has a bunch of benefits that you don't have like rolling a 20 on all saves no matter what or it's portfolio sense or whatever).

But under no circumstances do you have a situation in which you can definitely kill it and it can't kill you.

All valid observations.

[merxa]

Yeah, it's just amusing for someone to complain the 3x god stat blocks are under optimized and their super special pc would totally own them all.

Annihilating Strike
Any physical attack the deity makes can destroy a foe outright.
Prerequisites: Divine rank 11, base attack bonus +20, Str 25.
Benefit: When the deity strikes with a weapon or natural
weapon, the opponent struck might be obliterated. Creatures,
attended objects, and magic items must make Fortitude saves (DC
20 + the deity’s rank + the damage dealt) or be reduced to –10 hit
points and killed outright. Unattended, nonmagical objects are
obliterated. The deity can destroy up to 1,000 cubic feet (a 10-foot
cube) of nonliving matter per rank, so the ability destroys only part
of any very large object or structure targeted.
Notes: Deities with a rank equal to or greater than the attacking
deity are not subject to this ability. This ability has no effect on objects
or effects that are not subject to physical attacks, such as walls of force.
Suggested Portfolio Elements: Death, justice, vengeance, war.

For Odin, throwing his spear, he would roll for crit confirmation and force either a DC 73 fort save or DC 111 fort save.

Since he has portfolio magic, he would also know 19 weeks in advance of anyone casting death ward, and could just wait the round prior to the casting to snuff out the mortal's life. I suppose someone could make a whole campaign of just that, Odin's gone mad and people are mysteriously dying, and after some divinations everyone learns that he's killing anyone the moment before they decide to cast death ward.

But yeah, what a terrible build with shitty feats and these god powers suck ass. A bunch of under optimized plebs made these rules and don't understand the one true way to create powerful uber PCs. Maybe that's why you hate the Lady of Pain so much because she explicitly doesn't get a stat block, truly an unfathomable demon made unkillable by your own mind.

[ColorBlindNinja61]

Yeah, it's just amusing for someone to complain the 3x god stat blocks are under optimized and their super special pc would totally own them all.

Not as amusing as watching an utter idiot who's too dishonest to directly engage with me.

For Odin, throwing his spear, he would roll for crit confirmation and force either a DC 73 fort save or DC 111 fort save.

Since he has portfolio magic, he would also know 19 weeks in advance of anyone casting death ward, and could just wait the round prior to the casting to snuff out the mortal's life. I suppose someone could make a whole campaign of just that, Odin's gone mad and people are mysteriously dying, and after some divinations everyone learns that he's killing anyone the moment before they decide to cast death ward.

But yeah, what a terrible build with shitty feats and these god powers suck ass. A bunch of under optimized plebs made these rules and don't understand the one true way to create powerful uber PCs. Maybe that's why you hate the Lady of Pain so much because she explicitly doesn't get a stat block, truly an unfathomable demon made unkillable by your own mind.

Just stop. You don't know what you're talking about. You embarrass yourself every time you open your mouth.

You've made your ignorance of how 3.5 works painfully known.

EDIT:

But yeah, what a terrible build with shitty feats and these god powers suck ass. A bunch of under optimized plebs made these rules and don't understand the one true way to create powerful uber PCs.

Wait, did merxa just imply that 3.X's gods are well built?

[merxa]

I'm not especially fearful to have my d&d credentials card called into question.

After you summarily dismissed the quoted passages from the planescape campaign and called me dishonest it's hard to know if you're just really young, having fun trolling people, or if there's some other issue going on that might be impolite to speculate about.

We're just having a discussion, and generally it's better to understand how things work then to just be angry all the time and shout at people on an obscure gaming forum.

So show us on this character sheet where the lady of pain touched you? was it here, or over here? it's ok, this is a safe space.

[ColorBlindNinja61]

After you summarily dismissed the quoted passages from the planescape campaign and called me dishonest it's hard to know if you're just really young, having fun trolling people, or if there's some other issue going on that might be impolite to speculate about.

Piss off. You dismissed the quotes I provided about the Lady of Pain with a lame handwave.

I already told you your quotes didn't prove your point.

You're just a dishonest idiot.

We're just having a discussion, and generally it's better to understand how things work then to just be angry all the time and shout at people on an obscure gaming forum.

It's impossible to have a discussion when one side is a disingenuous dumbass.

You have repeatedly ignored my points and mindlessly repeated the same bullshit after I had already addressed it.

Then you slunk off after being caught employing a blatant double standard.

So show us on this character sheet where the lady of pain touched you? was it here, or over here? it's ok, this is a safe space.

You're apparently even stupider than I thought you were. That's an accomplishment.

[merxa]

you've made several claims, some rather outlandish, and haven't provided much actual support for your claims. Sure, you can continue to argue from authority, or just argue like a child that you're right and everyone who says otherwise is an idiot who doesn't know the true way to play d&d, but it's not very compelling or interesting after a while, although it can be entertaining at times i suppose.

maybe you were a player in that Faction War module, and happened to be a member of the Free League? Is that where this trauma originates from?

Using some minor splat to prove some universal truth about a d&d setting is just not very compelling, especially when other, more canonical sources i would say, contradict it in clear ways. Even in that original quotation I presented, it states that the lady of pain gets credit for various effects, I think it would be a valid, if Straussian, interpretation that the Lady of Pain is given the credit (blame?) for the indep plague, but in truth the source is something else, something a given campaign could go into details to discover and rectify; that the Free League blaming the Lady of Pain for the plague is part of their ongoing propaganda war against her.

But whatever, that's just one way to play the game and have fun.

[Avoraciopoctules]

-Odin stats snip-

That's a pretty interesting puzzle. He automatically rolls a 20 whenever a die roll is called for, sees ALL events vaguely linked to "magic", "combat", or "his organization" 19 weeks ahead with his future sight (plus 20 instant knowledge checks to dissect and understand them per round), and he has All Spells.

So you have to set your attack in motion 20 weeks or more ahead of time. And you need to cut off his options so he can't just plane-shift out of the way. Maybe if you used some kinda infinite range exploit on a hulking hurler type, you blow up his whole divine realm with orbital bombardment? You'll need to reliably do over 1000 damage per round over multiple rounds, since he can just full heal whenever he wants.

Lightwarden did a Pathfinder snipe combo that could throw enchanted weapons for 968 a shot from arbitrarily long range, but it requires a whole team of level 20 high mythic PCs. http://designofdragons.blogspot.com/201 ... ht-no.html

Mix in some hulking hurler, and you might be able to reach the damage threshold for one-rounding Odin without directly attacking with a spell. The DM would still probably rule that the future sight activates, so you'll probably end up playing a grueling campaign for 20 in game weeks after that where a whole pantheon of gods throws nonsense at you in an effort to stop the party. I'd probably call that a 50/50 shot if the party has studied how to counter god powers in depth, and amassed an army of allies. Definitely not a sure thing, and the god could absolutely wreck you if the DM was willing to put in the effort to use Odin's foreknowledge to the full extent and just ret-con your first hundred successes as alternate timelines Odin foresaw.

If the Wish and the Word got in range... I don't think Holy Word is a death effect, so they could one shot him and most minions. Still vulnerable to getting sniped across planar boundaries 19 weeks before they try anything, tho. This is a game of having more nonsense counters than the other side, and I can't think of anything other than infinite range planet busting direct damage this guy wouldn't have a ready answer for.

[Kaelik]

maybe you were a player in that Faction War module, and happened to be a member of the Free League? Is that where this trauma originates from?

Please stop doing pretend diagnosis of people's trauma. If you want to argue something just do it. Or call people names while doing it.

Even say "you just hate the Lady of Pain because your DM fucked you with her instead of some god they also could have fucked you with" but this elaborate routine isn't interesting and is annoying.

[ColorBlindNinja61]

you've made several claims, some rather outlandish, and haven't provided much actual support for your claims.

Like the Lady of Pain being a Penis Extension NPC? How is that outlandish?

EDIT: And you haven't provided any support for your claims, you hypocrite.

Sure, you can continue to argue from authority,

Arguments from Authority? Like how Mr. Kettle tried to use a quote from a book to, "prove", the Lady of Pain isn't a giant Fuck You to the players?

Using some minor splat to prove some universal truth about a d&d setting is just not very compelling,

The quote proved exactly what I said it did; the Lady of Pain fucks over the players.

You've done nothing this entire thread but expose your utter stupidity and dishonesty.

If the Wish and the Word got in range... I don't think Holy Word is a death effect, so they could one shot him and most minions.

It's not. That'll work, assuming the god in question hasn't use Alter Reality to make themselves immune.