What do you see when you look at TGD?

tzor · Post by **tzor** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:35 pm

Crissa wrote:I was just saying that I'm currently 'lucky' and you're 'unlucky' in the way of sources, tzor. You're entirely right that it could be the other way around at the drop of a hat. I try my darnedest, but I have been wrong before, it will happen again.

We all have the chance to be wrong (and I freely admit that as well) and others have the chance of bering right. It is even possible for both sides to be right (in their own way) at the same time, such is the complex nature of the world we live in and the vagueness of issues often dicussed.

tzor · Post by **tzor** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:41 pm

Koumei wrote:
Caedrus wrote:Oh noes! PR left! Whatever will we do?
Throw a party, perhaps? Given the difference in political leanings, it should be called "The Communist Party".

No, our party should be called the "Sexy Sushi Party!" Our political platform is served raw (on a bed of rice).

You know, twenty years ago, a coworker of mine, commenting in a Sushi resturant in downtown Manhatten (more near the Flatiron building than Wall Street) once insisted that a good "Uni" was better than the "Big O." I've taken her word at face value, but one of these days I really need to do a proper experment on that.

Nihlin · Post by **Nihlin** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:35 pm

tzor wrote:You know, twenty years ago, a coworker of mine, commenting in a Sushi resturant in downtown Manhatten (more near the Flatiron building than Wall Street) once insisted that a good "Uni" was better than the "Big O." I've taken her word at face value, but one of these days I really need to do a proper experment on that.

I'm guessing there's a transition point. Before that point, the food is underwhelming. After it, the food is better. It's presumably a function of either age or years married / in a stable relationship. Personally, after 10 years with my wife, including 6 years married, I'm still finding the food underwhelming in comparison to the alternative.

---------

I think the Bullshido comparison is spot on.

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:41 pm

tzor wrote:You know, twenty years ago, a coworker of mine, commenting in a Sushi resturant in downtown Manhatten (more near the Flatiron building than Wall Street) once insisted that a good "Uni" was better than the "Big O." I've taken her word at face value, but one of these days I really need to do a proper experment on that.

IMO, uni is not particularly tasty at all. Maybe sea urchin gonads are an acquired taste...

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 5:25 am

If it's from the sea, it's not for me. I'll take the alternative any time.

Come to think of it, even slaughtered, lightly cooked (as in "See this here? That's the oven. We don't know what it's for either. Now, hop onto this plate so you can be et") local fauna (kangaroos are cute, cuddly and DELICIOUS) isn't going to cross that threshold.

Maybe Lindt white chocolate. Maybe.

tzor · Post by **tzor** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 2:17 pm

CatharzGodfoot wrote:IMO, uni is not particularly tasty at all. Maybe sea urchin gonads are an acquired taste...

I suppose. It could also be that the taste is just one of those odd things that strikes you one way or the other.

Caedrus · Post by **Caedrus** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 6:44 am

In all honesty, when I look at TGD, I see the most intelligent D&D-related discussion forum of the lot that I've experienced (WotC, BG, and GitP), with a more responsible set of moderators (they appear to believe in free speech, and I have never seen one power trip, unlike WotC, BG, and GitP). It's tainted with a few assholes, but to a significantly lesser extent than WotC, BG, or GitP are tainted with ignorant assholes.

The real clincher is that on TGD, I do not have to look through several pages of claptrap in order to find one post that is sensible and/or useful.

mean_liar · Post by **mean_liar** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 8:28 pm

Word.

I just wish we didn't collectively come off like rabid jackholes due to the occasional crapfloods and/or boolean relationship to most gaming-related topics.

Ganbare Gincun · Post by **Ganbare Gincun** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 10:29 pm

This is actually one of the best forums that I've been on. There is very little drama and the moderators are reasonable. It's not like this is some kind of crazy-ass Transformers or Anime forum or anything. That shit is crazy.

ubernoob · Post by **ubernoob** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 10:39 pm

Ganbare Gincun wrote:This is actually one of the best forums that I've been on. There is very little drama and the moderators are reasonable. It's not like this is some kind of crazy-ass Transformers or Anime forum or anything. That shit is crazy.

The moderators hardly do anything. TGD seems to be self moderated from the way I see it (this is a good thing).

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Sun Aug 02, 2009 4:26 pm

Just stopping by.

I've been doing some more thinking about TGD, and the more I look at us from an outside perspective, the more I'm dismayed by what I have seen. We most certainly get some intelligent debate on some topics here, but most of the time, debate threads devolve into the verbal equivalent of shit-slinging, and the winner is the one who can hurl the biggest turd. Everyone here is so angry. It's like we're all teenagers full of hormonal imbalances, angry political ignorance, and the need to prove just how awesome we are.

Let's not even pretend that the majority of debate on TGD is intellectual. (Calm discourse is another matter.) Let's be honest--the majority of debate is rhetoric, lengthy posts that can be boiled down to "fuck you, I'm right and you're wrong."

We can do better.

Originally, I wasn't planning on responding to anyone in particular in this thread, but I might as well while I'm making this post.

Lago PARANOIA wrote:First of all, Psychic Robot, that's not something I want to hear from you. Ever. You and Roy have been repeatedly trying to stir up shit from other websites; you two got the goddamn Threads That Make Us Laugh/Cry/Both permanently banned because you wanted to troll other people and use TGD as your personal attack dogs. Just a couple of days ago you were crowing and piling on Alexandra Erin in a most unfriendly manner and now you want to complain about the tone?

Actually, Lago, I never wanted to use TGD as my "personal attack dogs." In fact, the (problematic) posts that I linked to in the TTMULCB thread were innocuous threads that I was sure would become TTMULCB material because I could predict the reactions of the posters. I rarely did the "smiting" thing, instead choosing to quote particularly moronic posts to save people from wading through threads. Furthermore, I acknowledged that treating AlexandraErin the way that I did was wrong.

It was cool and funny then, wasn't it? Now that you've been getting a taste of your own medicine in the other threads you want to Take a Break From The Gaming Den? Here's an idea. Stay on your break permanently. I would rather have Elennar back than you. I am not kidding.

What a wiener.

Lago, the primary reason that I'm taking a break is not because of any nonsense in this (MPSIMS) forum. You severely overestimate the value I place on the opinions of strangers on the Internet, particularly when their opinions border on batshit insanity.

The main reason that I'm on temporary leave from TGD is from the most recent thread that you and several other posters were involved in--the 4e psion thread. You and your ilk demonstrated to me exactly the mind-poison that pervades TGD; your cursing and shouting and loudly proclaiming that psionics sucks because Vancian is better BECAUSE. I'm not here to reopen that argument, but I'll tell you one thing: the majority of the arguing on TGD verges on intellectual dishonesty. Most people here can't formulate an argument without resorting to strawmen mingled with raving shrieks.

It's sad, really, and I think we can do better.

Just because this board bashes religion? I guess you've never been on a Progressive/Libertarian/anti-pseudoscience forum before. The Straight Dope is noticably harsher than this place and the idea of that place being the Stormfront of anything is laughable.

That's not what I meant--I meant Stormfront in terms of gaming rather than religion bashing. Again, I could care less about the religion-bashing overall; what disturbs me is the circle-jerking and willful ignorance of the bashers, particularly on a site where the members hail themselves as being "intellectual."

Crissa wrote: Like I said, the debate isn't fair to tzor not because he has conservative ideas, but because the people he relies upon as allies and sources actively mislead him. So he cites sources, and we have to show that they've lied to him. Which is sad and frustrating.

Your statement boils down to "conservatives are only conservative because they are misinformed/believe lies." This is the sort of extremist nonsense that has caused me to realize what an intellectual wasteland this place is. No intelligent, well-informed, well-educated, mentally sound person can hold extremist views (assuming he has a moral bone in his body). If you hold an extremist view, you are missing at least one of the above traits.

For instance, take fat people (since I'm about to talk about that anyway).

Unintelligent Person: I don't like fat people because they're fat.
Uninformed/Uneducated Person: Fat people are fat because they're lazy and eat McDonald's.
Crazy Person: FAT PEOPLE ARE ALIENS

Intelligent Person: I don't like the fact that many obese people are unwilling to do anything about their weight.
Informed/Educated Person: While some fat people are fat because they're lazy and eat McDonald's, others have eating disorders or genetic abnormalities that cause them to become obese.
Sane Person: Fat people are people.

Oh, well.

Boolean wrote:Unacceptable: Your proposal is shockingly stupid, probably because you spend all day sucking the pope's cock/crying in your ice cream.

And yes, fat-bashing is like race-bashing or gender-bashing. In fact, ties in with gender-bashing since it's mostly used against women.

Boolean, I would completely disagree with what you've posted. First off, I believe your "unacceptable" argument would be seen as acceptable on these forums. Secondly, the very notion that calling someone fat is akin to bashing someone because of his or her race is bothersome. Obesity is nothing like race (or ethnicity or sexual orientation or anything else), particularly given that

a) everyone is trying to lose weight (at least in American culture),
b) being fat is detrimental to one's health, and
c) "fat" is not something you're born with.

If I were an easily-offended victim of racism, I would be offended that you would compare apples to oranges like that. But, since I'm not, I'll wrap up my post.

Anyway, I'm still on vacation, so I'll see you guys later. I hope to have some fun stories from the Warhammer game I'm preparing to run.

And, again, we can do better.

Cielingcat · Post by **Cielingcat** » Sun Aug 02, 2009 5:36 pm

Psychic Robot, you are an asshole. You are not a victim here-you and Roy are the very ones who have been doing all the things you have said. You are the one who uses insults to dismiss people rather than to color your argument. You are the one who is unreasonable. And you are the one who is making this place suck.

I don't post here much. I don't feel I have things to say that warrant saying, and so I keep quiet and lurk. But I read this forum every single day and I can honestly say that you are one of the reasons that the quality of debate here has gone down.

So please, leave, and don't come back until you have thought long and hard about what you've done. Or better yet, don't come back at all.

Surgo · Post by **Surgo** » Sun Aug 02, 2009 6:31 pm

Jesus Christ, if you're taking a break go and take it already. (That means stop posting and don't come back.)

Caedrus · Post by **Caedrus** » Sun Aug 02, 2009 8:13 pm

Cielingcat and Surgo have the right of it.

Psychotic_Robot wrote:Your statement boils down to "conservatives are only conservative because they are misinformed/believe lies." This is the sort of extremist nonsense that has caused me to realize what an intellectual wasteland this place is. No intelligent, well-informed, well-educated, mentally sound person can hold extremist views (assuming he has a moral bone in his body). If you hold an extremist view, you are missing at least one of the above traits.

This is seriously one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. What makes something "extremist" is its divergence from the status quo. Therefore, by your argument, pretty much everyone in the modern world is unintelligent, poorly-informed, uneducated, and mentally unsound because they hold views which at some place or point in time or another would have been held as extremist. The idea that black people shouldn't be slaves was an extremist position. The idea that they shouldn't be segregated was an extremist position not too long ago.

To say that anyone who has beliefs outside of the "status quo" is poorly informed, uneducated, mentally unsound, or unintelligent is absolutely absurd and worthy of the most virulent ridicule.

Without people diverging from the status quo, we wouldn't have any progress.

___

I for one disagree that conservatives are only conservatives because they are misinformed or lied to. I would agree that most people who are conservatives are conservatives essentially because they are suckers. However, there are some other groups, of which I know people from. For example, there's very well off people who don't want to pay taxes ever. I can have a conversation with one of them and actually get an honest, sensible answer about why they would vote Republican, even though I wouldn't agree with it.

For example, consider a self-made man who is basically of the opinion that "I earned mine, why can't they earn theirs? Why should I have to pay for everyone else after I did all the work? Besides, I don't trust the U.S. government to use money wisely. It's not a charity I'd like to contribute to, so I don't want to be forced to contribute to it."

That's a bit different than the usual republican. But obviously this isn't what most republicans are like. Most, I think, aptly fit Crissa's descriptions.

You say this...

Psychic Robot wrote: Informed/Educated Person: While some fat people are fat because they're lazy and eat McDonald's, others have eating disorders or genetic abnormalities that cause them to become obese.

But then you say this...

c) "fat" is not something you're born with.

If it's a genetic abnormality, you are born with it.

a) everyone is trying to lose weight (at least in American culture)

So, I guess that means I'm not a part of American culture? (I'm certainly not obese, but I'm certainly not making an effort to lose weight either). I guess that's consistent with the Republican viewpoint though. George Bush himself said that I didn't deserve to be called an American citizen, even though I was born here.

IGTN · Post by **IGTN** » Sun Aug 02, 2009 8:56 pm

Dear Fucking Cthulhu, did he just pull the "people opposed to racism are easily offended" card? I'm not even going to bother with the rest of that awful post.

Also what Caedrus said. Except that I prefer to use "radical," and save "extremist" for those who support terrorism.

tzor · Post by **tzor** » Sun Aug 02, 2009 10:02 pm

Psychic Robot wrote:
Crissa wrote: Like I said, the debate isn't fair to tzor not because he has conservative ideas, but because the people he relies upon as allies and sources actively mislead him. So he cites sources, and we have to show that they've lied to him. Which is sad and frustrating.
Your statement boils down to "conservatives are only conservative because they are misinformed/believe lies." This is the sort of extremist nonsense that has caused me to realize what an intellectual wasteland this place is.

P.R. have you ever seen sites like Gather? Compared to those sites, this place is mild. Honestly, the notion that the other side might have a valid point is something I've seen on both sides. Politics is always a third rail on boards; I'd rather argue politics here, among friends who disagree.

Absentminded_Wizard · Post by **Absentminded_Wizard** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:10 am

P.R. have you ever seen sites like Gather? Compared to those sites, this place is mild.

Gather, Newsvine, any newspaper or magazine that allows comments on their articles....

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:17 am

Apparently if you get three letters published in The Sun or The Daily Mail (both UK newspapers), you're automatically sectioned under the mental health act.

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:35 am

There are lots of good reasons to be conservative. Most of them revolve around having more money than most people, and thinking that you spend it on better things than the government.

Heath Robinson · Post by **Heath Robinson** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:41 am

Koumei wrote:Apparently if you get three letters published in The Sun or The Daily Mail (both UK newspapers), you're automatically sectioned under the mental health act.

I have found a particular clip from Mock the Week both entertaining and instructive in understanding the target markets and general qualities of the British papers. However, one of the keys to understanding British journalism is not covered in the clip and this is that, unlike American news sources, British papers do not try to maintain a thin veneer of objectivity.

For those that are not familiar with the worthless rags that a good portion of this country rely upon to determine their view of the world for them.

erik · Post by **erik** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:02 am

Psychic Robot wrote: Let's not even pretend that the majority of debate on TGD is intellectual. (Calm discourse is another matter.) Let's be honest--the majority of debate is rhetoric, lengthy posts that can be boiled down to "fuck you, I'm right and you're wrong."

We can do better.

Don't you mind anyone Psychic Robot. I think you are spot-on in your assessment of a problem of these forums, and your leaving appears to be a very well considered and appropriate remedy- the ameliorative effect of which is already being noticed by myself and probably others.

Take care out there and take as long as you need. =-)

Mask_De_H · Post by **Mask_De_H** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:33 am

0/10 PR. It's good to switch up your style every once in awhile, but when "Twilight Sucks" for example is a few threads down, it kind of kills any point you may have.

So long and thanks for all the flames. Don't come back round y'hear!

Josh_Kablack · Post by **Josh_Kablack** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:24 am

tzor wrote: Politics is always a third rail on boards; I'd rather argue politics here, among friends who disagree.

Thank you.

Tzor, you probably know that I have many serious and fundamental political and philosophical differences with you. But I'm still grateful to have your perspective on a number of issues and glad you have the courage to brave some of the flaming you take around here.

Ice9 · Post by **Ice9** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:18 am

There are a lot of "arguments" here that are actually just saying "I'm right and the reasons why are too obvious to explain". That's not a fucking argument, that's just internet dick-waving. And while some of the time, the person in question is at least partially right, often, it's just their preferences presented as objective and unassailable truth.

And then there's this:
Psychic Robot: Long post which happens to mention fatness in one section.
Rebuttal: You made a mistaken or hypocritical statement in the section about fatness, so your entire post is now null and void.

This gets used way too fucking much. Someone will put an argument about something, and happen to mention one detail wrong that doesn't even make a difference (like saying a class has 4+Int instead of 2+Int skill points, when skill aren't even the subject), and everyone will jump on that error like a bus full of hungry sharks and ignore the rest of the post, then claim victory because the post had an error in it.

And then there's the excessive 4E-bashing. Now I'm not saying we have to or should like 4E, and if the question arises, then by all means say so. But threads like "The failness of 4E's failtastic fail" go so far beyond preaching to the choir that they're practically a circle jerk.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:46 am

Eh, I just think Fail is an overused term here... and PR is 50% of the reason for that (the other 50% being Roy), and tend not to read threads that have more than zero uses of that word in the title.

I think what we really need are some new RPGs to bitch and complain about/praise/exploit/fix.