Wikileaks...

[Maj]

I read today that the US government is already sending out memos to preempt a Wikileaks upcoming leak.

And that just struck me as weird. Apparently, Wikileaks has been sitting on some information and waiting until sometime soon (?) to release it. It almost seems like blackmail.

What's their deal?

[JonSetanta]

Whatever it is will leak out anyway, "official memo" or not, because humans are involved. That's just how we roll as a culture.

[Juton]

I have no idea why Wikileaks does things the way it does. The scuttlebutt I've heard is that these documents are really going to piss off Turkey because of deals made with the Kurdish population in the north.

Supposedly Wikileaks goes through every document to redact the names of locals so they are protected. Supposedly in the last batch names of confidential informers (or whatever they are called over there) where included in the leak. This leak is supposed to be even bigger than the previous, so it would take months to go through everything. If they are stalling after that I don't know.

[Draco_Argentum]

I read today that the US government is already sending out memos to preempt a Wikileaks upcoming leak.

And that just struck me as weird. Apparently, Wikileaks has been sitting on some information and waiting until sometime soon (?) to release it. It almost seems like blackmail.

What's their deal?

They sit on lots of things that they haven't the time to release properly. They sit on documents that can't be verified for accuracy.

The US brief was weird, odds on they told people stuff that Wikileaks doesn't know. Very stupid move.

[Kaelik]

So I read an article that whined about how wikileaks isn't democratic and isn't accountable.

Um, yes it fucking is. (Accountable).

How does Wikileeaks get this information? People give it the information.

Why do people give it the information? Because they trust Wikileaks to be responsible about it. If Wikileaks acted irresponsibly, then no one would give them any more information.

Wikileaks is more accountable than our actual government.

[Surgo]

Wikileaks isn't sitting on information, they're performing redactions with the help of 4 other news agencies.

[mean_liar]

Wikileaks is more accountable than our actual government.

Yes, because they are elected and if you disagree with their policies and/or politics you can always vote them out.

[PhoneLobster]

Wikileaks officially sits on information (a little bit) with an official policy of doing so in order to increase the impact of the information on release.

They are aware that international journalism has a very short and shallow attention span and try to space out some of their releases just enough to partially overcome this.

[Kaelik]

Wikileaks is more accountable than our actual government.

Yes, because they are elected and if you disagree with their policies and/or politics you can always vote them out.

Hey, did you disagree with Bush? How well did voting him out of office go?

You personally have literally zero effect on politics. Especially if you are staunchly anything. Republicans aren't trying to get my vote for anything, and they can compel my taxes after getting 51% of other people to vote for them.

Wikileaks has no ability to compel anything, and relies 100% on voluntary contributions of information.

Which means they have to encourage people to give them information by using it like those people want it to be used. If they give out information irresponsibly, then leaks will stop happening to them, and unlike voting, choosing to alienate half of all potential leaks to better appease the other half is a losing strategy.

Wiki leaks is more accountable to me than the US government ever will be.

[mean_liar]

Wiki leaks is more accountable to me than the US government ever will be.

Only if you're one of the (very small number of) whistleblowers they've relied on, or foresee yourself as a possible future whistleblower. Otherwise they don't give a shit about you as far as their accountability is concerned, unlike government, which gives a (tiny tiny tiny) shit.

At least if your (or even sometimes someone else's) government screws you, you still have some outside chance of actual enforcement of accountability. If Wikileaks sells your Iraqi ass out to the opposition, your only real method of enforcing accountability is to somehow hunt down Assange directly and stuff bananas in his tailpipe or accuse him of rape.

[Zinegata]

Has wikileaks actually released any information that we didn't already know before?

Because quite frankly I'm beginning to feel this whole wikileaks thing is a waste of time and is little more than a cry for attention by an overtly anti-American prick.

[Doom]

All sorts of information. Probably the highlight was the video taken by our military (that our military said didn't exist) showing our military killing a UPI field reporter.

Granted, the military has a very thin defense of the murder, but the fact that they denied the video existed for YEARS doesn't make it easy to be sympathetic.

There's been tons of other items, but you really can't learn about it from reading CNN or other 'standard' media outlets, for reasons that can only be conjectured.

[cthulhu]

See, that was actually good, because it's blowing the whistle on something. I like whistle-blowers

What is leaking cables that say the state department thinks that Russia is an insane kleptrocracy blowing the whistle on? The state department is at least as quick on his feet as the average newspaper columnist?

[Doom]

The latest batch hasn't been quite as juicy, I admit...I mostly just shows what our diplomats really think of our client states. The good stuff hasn't been weeded out yet, although I hear there's indication that Israeli organized criminals are being allowed into the US (unlike, say, Italian criminals); attaching any meaning to that is a matter of personal opinion, however.

I think the response of the US government officials is pure comedy gold, however.

It'd be like showing all the private e-mails of the moderators at RPG.net. Such e-mails would show them to be petty, cowardly, vindictive, and stupid. Not news to folks that can think for themselves, but their response would be pretty hysterical as well.

[Zinegata]

I'm still not seeing anything that we don't actually already know.

Basically, it seems people are just using this as an excuse to bash America. Over stuff we already know. Again.

But as for real, substantial issues that affect a whole country - like explaining where the hell all of the billions in reconstruction money went - Wikileaks fails. It ain't no Woodward and Bernstein. It's just a bunch of whiners who apparently got Afghan and Iraqi informants killed.

[Username17]

The part that boggles my mind is people pretending to be offended that the diplomatic staff of the US is being asked to gather information. What the fuck do they think diplomatic staff is for? They negotiate on behalf of the sponsoring country in the host country and tell the sponsoring country what is going on in the host country. That is literally their entire job.

-Username17

[Zinegata]

The same people who are ignorant that CIA station chiefs often have an office in the local US embassy or consulate?

Frankly, if anything, Wikileaks is showing how shockingly unedudcated a lot of people are in world affairs - including the press.

[Maxus]

http://www.aolnews.com/nation/article/j ... ink3|29467

Y'know, I'm generally for a fair and open press and cutting through the bullshit and sticking it to the man, but Assange lost my sympathy when he said that the informants whose covers are blown by WikiLeaks releases, and the targets now on the backs of their whole families AND the damn family goldfish, were "acceptable collateral damage".

Or something to the tune of that.

[cthulhu]

Publishing the US' critical infrastructure protection list is also mindblowingly retarded.

[Draco_Argentum]

Has wikileaks actually released any information that we didn't already know before?

Because quite frankly I'm beginning to feel this whole wikileaks thing is a waste of time and is little more than a cry for attention by an overtly anti-American prick.

There was a bit by an Australian reporter on the ABC news site that I can't find anymore.

The gist being "in 2006 I reported on the civil uprising and murders in Iraq. The US said I was a liar. Now wikileaks releases proof that the US knew I was right. Now the US says thats old news, you reported that in 2006."

---

Anyone with half a brain knows the government is lying in whole or part a significant fraction of the time. Without proof of a specific lie you have nothing but a hunch. Hunches aren't worth shit. Now we have proof that the Yemeni government is claiming responsibility for US airstrikes. Will anyone here stand up and say with a straight face that they had proof positive of that prior to the cables?

The claim that there is nothing new is a smoke screen designed to deflect attention from the difference between a deniable rumour and black & white. Stop spreading the smoke.

[PhoneLobster]

The part that boggles my mind is people pretending to be offended that the diplomatic staff of the US is being asked to gather information.

Some of that information gathering notably on high ranking UN officials looked very suspiciously like blind fishing for blackmail material.

Having all his UN passwords and spying on his official and private UN communications MIGHT be considered "perfectly civilized spying" or some other excuse that wouldn't fly if you tried it on your mother when you were three.

But. No. You do NOT need the UN secretary generals credit card number and a DNA sample. That's fishing for blackmail material and that's "naughty spying".

[cthulhu]

Meh, I kinda think Assange is a jackass - I loved the leak of say, that helicopter gun camera footage and the associated US army bullshit.

But he seems determined to squander that good will by leaking inconsequential bullshit. If he was a bit more incisive and focused on the 'good stuff' rather than a stream of bullshit it would be better. People are calling it cable gate, but nothing NOTHING so far even comes close to be 1/10th as important as Watergate.

[Koumei]

Having all his UN passwords and spying on his official and private UN communications MIGHT be considered "perfectly civilized spying" or some other excuse that wouldn't fly if you tried it on your mother when you were three.

You gathered your mother's UN passwords when you were three? That's hardcore.

[Kaelik]

People are calling it cable gate, but nothing NOTHING so far even comes close to be 1/10th as important as Watergate.

Nothing called Xgate within the last 30 years has ever been even 1/20th as important as Watergate. People are just dumb as fuck and like to call things Xgate to sound like a big deal.

[name_here]

I have to wonder who is even slightly surprised that the US diplomatic staff includes spying as part of their job. It's not like that's new, or unique. Telling other people what they found, without simultaneously doing it for every other world power, is basically sabotage because it hampers their ability to gather more intelligence because now informants are afraid they'll end up in the newspaper.

One thing that is new is revealing the reason behind the changes to the European missile shield. They're changing the interceptors used because they've changed their beliefs about Iran's missile development plans.