Cryo/Pyrohydras - Too Powerful?

[Brobdingnagian]

[counturl=63]SRD - Hydras[/counturl]

Something I thought really needed to be addressed.

Huge Magical Beast (Fire)

These reddish hydras can breathe jets of fire 10 feet high, 10 feet wide, and 20 feet long. All heads breathe once every 1d4 rounds. Each jet deals 3d6 points of fire damage per head. A successful Reflex save halves the damage. The save DC is 10 + ½ hydra’s original number of heads + hydra’s Con modifier.

Fire attacks cannot prevent a pyrohydra’s stump from growing new heads (since a pyrohydra has immunity to fire), but 5 points of cold damage does.

The same is said for the Cryohydra (with cold instead of fire). So here's my question, because (as usual) the RAW are vague.

Do all heads combined create a single jet (resulting in reasonable damage - only subject to ER once?), or does each head create a jet (resulting in way too much damage - subject to ER multiple (but nowhere near enough) times)?

See, if all heads combine for a single jet, on a 10-headed version (CR 11), we get 30d6 damage, subject to ER only once. Seems reasonable enough.

HOWEVER.

If each head creates a jet, on that same pyrohydra, we get 300d6 damage, subject to ER ten times. Umm... I don't think ER is going to help you much at that point, unless it's bigger than is reasonable for CR 11.

I'm fairly certain this was intended to be interpreted in the first way; still, I thought it needed to brought up. That can be misunderstood, and that would be really bad.

[Neeek]

Err...It's 3d6 10 times with ER applied 10 times. If you have ER 10, you'll average a damage a head.

[Brobdingnagian]

Now it doesn't say anything like that at all. It specifically states (the bold part in my last post)...

Each jet deals 3d6 damage per head.

So if we have 10 jets, each one is dealing 30d6 damage. See my point yet?

[Neeek]

Ah. I see what you are saying. It's a typo.

[User3]

Incidentally, ER is points per round, not points per attack.

[josephbt]

i think that it used to be that way, but they changed it in 3.5. not sure though

[Judging__Eagle]

I thought that ER was per attack in 3.5; since the ER per round isn't mentioned anymore, neither is ER "Fire 10 per round" something that energy resistance can give you (or is it protection from energy; I'm talking abotu the spell that's ER 10 at 3rd lvl, 20 at 7th and 30 at 11th).

[AlphaNerd]

Resistance To Energy

A creature with resistance to energy has the ability (usually extraordinary) to ignore some damage of a certain type each round, but it does not have total immunity.

Each resistance ability is defined by what energy type it resists and how many points of damage are resisted. It doesn’t matter whether the damage has a mundane or magical source.

When resistance completely negates the damage from an energy attack, the attack does not disrupt a spell. This resistance does not stack with the resistance that a spell might provide.

This abjuration grants a creature limited protection from damage of whichever one of five energy types you select: acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic. The subject gains energy resistance 10 against the energy type chosen, meaning that each time the creature is subjected to such damage (whether from a natural or magical source), that damage is reduced by 10 points before being applied to the creature’s hit points. The value of the energy resistance granted increases to 20 points at 7th level and to a maximum of 30 points at 11th level. The spell protects the recipient’s equipment as well.

[Judging__Eagle]

Hmmm, so, the gargoyle was prolly a lot badly hurt than I anticipated.

Also, I should have 'attacked' the monk; but fire-breathed the pally.

[Immortius]

I would be inclined to read it as all heads firing off together to form a single jet, once every 1d4 rounds. So you'ld end up with 30d6 damage once, with ER applying to it once. Mainly because the text doesn't suggest multiple jets at once, but does state all the heads breathe on together.

[Fwib]

1178196306[/unixtime]]

Resistance To Energy

A creature with resistance to energy has the ability (usually extraordinary) to ignore some damage of a certain type each round, but it does not have total immunity.

Each resistance ability is defined by what energy type it resists and how many points of damage are resisted. It doesn’t matter whether the damage has a mundane or magical source.

When resistance completely negates the damage from an energy attack, the attack does not disrupt a spell. This resistance does not stack with the resistance that a spell might provide.

This abjuration grants a creature limited protection from damage of whichever one of five energy types you select: acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic. The subject gains energy resistance 10 against the energy type chosen, meaning that each time the creature is subjected to such damage (whether from a natural or magical source), that damage is reduced by 10 points before being applied to the creature’s hit points. The value of the energy resistance granted increases to 20 points at 7th level and to a maximum of 30 points at 11th level. The spell protects the recipient’s equipment as well.

I looked in the 3.5 MM and in the 3.5 SRD on the wizards site, and they both said "each time it takes damage" - must be an error in the d20srd.
[edit] I mailed the site, hopefully it will be fixed.

[Shatner]

Here’s my interpretation of the spirit of the RAW:

You have a hydra with N heads and each head is autonomous. They can attack independently of one another and die independently of one another. Since this is a pyrohydra each head can also breathe a jet of flame independent of one another. What targets get flamed is decided on by each head at the time and each jet of flame is its own attack warranting its own reflex save. Each flame attack does 3d6 fire damage. Period. I think the description given is ambiguously worded, that’s all. What I see as being truly ambiguous in the intent of this monster is whether each head has its own 1d4 round “cooldown” on its breath weapon or if it’s a creature-wide thing. Most people would simply have it be a global timer to reduce the book keeping though personally I like the idea of it sporadically shooting little gouts of flame rather than massing one party melting breath attack of doom. Damage over time is much kinder on the PCs…

[Zherog]

I agree with Shatner's interpretation...

[Username17]

Energy Resistance says "each round" in the intial paragraph when it is talking about it in general, but when it actually gets down to the description of the rules text, it does specify each attack.

-Username17

[AlphaNerd]

That's actually pretty interesting.

RESISTANCE TO ENERGY

A creature with resistance to energy has the ability (usually extraordinary) to ignore some damage of a certain type each round, but it does not have total immunity.

Each resistance ability is defined by what energy type it resists and how many points of damage are resisted. It doesn’t matter whether the damage has a mundane or magical source.

When resistance completely negates the damage from an energy attack, the attack does not disrupt a spell. This resistance does not stack with the resistance that a spell might provide.

Or, identical to what I posted from d20srd.org

Resistance to Energy (Ex): A creature with this special quality ignores some damage of the indicated type each time it takes damage of that kind (commonly acid, cold, fire, or electricity). The entry indicates the amount and type of damage ignored.

So, the rules give two different readings depending on where you read.

Resistance to Energy (Ex): The creature ignores some damage of the listed type each round

Perhaps this is a edition change error?

Resistance to Energy (Ex): A creature with this special quality ignores some damage of the indicated type each time it takes damage of that kind (commonly acid, cold, fire, or electricity). The entry indicates the amount and type of damage ignored.

[User3]

Since in 3.0 energy resistance was very clearly per round, and there's now a reference to per attack, that should be a failure to put things in accordance with the new rule (per attack).

[PhoneLobster]

Possibly not that big a wording issue, again ambigious but because it says "some" damage per round and "some" damage per attack its not actually contradictory in anyway, its when it refers specifically in what damage to remove that it actually DOES anything, the rest is just vague non contradictory pre game trash talk.