Bait And Switch Gaming

PhoneLobster · Post by **PhoneLobster** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:28 am

Let me paint you a picture of a story about my day in gaming today.

Today was local monthly board gaming club day. Yay! I missed the last THREE months, the first because I was lazy, the second because I never even IMAGINED they would actually hold it on the 1st of January rather than delaying it a week. And the third because it was held simultaneous with both my only sisters wedding AND the hottest day on record.

Double checking the club web site I am surprised. Suddenly out of nowhere SIGNIFICANT D&D INTEREST ON CLUB FORUMS! Better yet, it seemed like a lot of players over 15 AND players interested in various incarnations of 3.e, admittedly pathfinder was looking depressingly likely, but fuck it, its basically 3.e.

I was excited. What fun. New players, new groups, new games. I might round some people up to run a game and show off my awesome GMing or I might play a game.

Now I'm somewhat concerned, I mean hey, this gaming club is where those guys from "My Favourite Edition Is Second Edition" hang out. I do not want to play a game with That One Guy as GM again, well, OK maybe it might be fun if I posted a log of it up here, but STILL. And worse I don't want to play with SOME OTHER GUY LIKE HIM.

And the guy pushing to run a Pathfinder game sounds... bad... it seems like he might be first time GMing, his talk up of his campaign ideas includes ALL the warning buzz words you NEVER want to here a prospective GM uttering (Political Intrigue, Gritty, Low Magic, etc...).

So I figure this, I'll push to do GMing myself. The group sounded large and chaotic, they clearly had excess interest on their forum at least, I like to run for smaller 3 and 4 player groups, I'd round up the extras.

In the mean time if I played with some other GM I might ask them a simple rules question to get some gage of how incredibly ignorant of their own supposed rules set they were.

I figured since it had turned out to be such a fundamental problem with game play in Our Favorite Edition Is 2nd Edition I might have to ask him about basic movement rules or basic combat action categories since the LAST fucker of a GM I played with couldn't ACTUALLY correctly resolve one turn of walking forward in a straight line with no impediments correctly and didn't know what a Standard fucking Action was, and that turned out to be depressingly problematic REPEATEDLY.

But all that is scuttled!

I turn up at the fucking club, all my gear in hand... and what is going on???? Oh fuckit. Look two tables of fucking under 12 year olds playing 4E with the same baby sitting DMs that I've never liked the look of even if they WEREN'T running the kiddie edition and doing so for the actual kiddies.

And ONE OF THEM is organizing all other D&D events? Why? FUCKED IF I KNOW. So like four other guys who are actually over 15 are hanging around waiting for D&D. But baby sitting man has organized some sort of schedule (and NOT ON THE FUCKING PUBLIC FORUM) where by he has some god damn kid (I mean over 15 but still, a fucking kid) running fucking FOURTH EDITION.

I just need to WAIT TWO MONTHS for the scheduled Pathfinder game (already a fucking compromise) and in the meantime, hey look 4E thats basically what you came here for... right...

Oh I don't mind running a game, well TOO FUCKING BAD, 4E is on the schedule, even if that wasn't the advertising, or what half the adult players standing around actually want to play. Put your name down and say if you would like to DM and what edition you would like to play, oh look more than half the universe wants to DM, at least half want to play 3.? however SO WHY THE FUCK ARE WE PLAYING 4E, I just put ANOTHER 3.x willing DM name on a long list of 3.x willing DMs, we WANT TO PLAY 3.x, apparently a bunch of people do, all the forum interest drummed up was interest in 3.x at least half the interest on the sign up sheet is in 3.x, WHY IS IT THE FIRST WEEK WE HAVE AN ADULT D&D GAMING TABLE YOU HAVE SCHEDULED A FUCKING 4E GAME?

I mean if anyone ACTUALLY wanted to play FUCKING 4E we would have joined the kiddies, and rapidly formed a break away adult 4E table with all that adult interest in 4E, adult interest THAT IS NOT FUCKING THERE MR BABY SITTER MAN.

My rage knows no bounds. That was a bait and switch, I TRIED to sit down at that table, I looked over the horridly uninteresting pregens handed to us by the appointed almost a kiddie GM, I just couldn't bring myself to be assed. I told them I'd play one month when they bothered scheduling (and then ACTUALLY STICKING to) something that was vaguely worth my time and walked the fuck out of there.

I'm still pissed. What a god damn fucking bait and switch.

TheFlatline · Post by **TheFlatline** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:02 am

So wait... you go to a gaming club where everyone has to follow what a 3rd party dictates that you play?

If you had 4 players wanting to play D&D and not 4th, why not give the dude the finger and play it?

Otherwise, cool story bro.

Jilocasin · Post by **Jilocasin** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:55 am

TheFlatline wrote:If you had 4 players wanting to play D&D and not 4th, why not give the dude the finger and play it?

Yeah, what gives?

RobbyPants · Post by **RobbyPants** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:50 am

I'm really curious too. Table shortage? Draconian bullshit policy?

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:57 am

Well, it is New South Wales, which is even worse than Western Australia or the ACT. I don't doubt that they seriously have a special "4E ONLY!" policy state-wide.

PhoneLobster · Post by **PhoneLobster** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:01 pm

We had 4 players who had turned up for nebulous "D&D".

One was me.

One is the path finder fan who preferred 3.x over 4th and apparently for some reason has been put off for 2 months from running the game he promised THIS month on the forum which kicked off the UNPRECEDENTED dozen or so forum replies!!! (itsa small forum)

One was the guy apparently "on the schedule" for running 4E D&D.

And the other guy was mysterious and silent, like a ghost.

Edit: Oh and there was another older guy who looked interested and expressed mild interest in 3.x but left early and got into one of the only board games going that month (wargames were inexplicable big this time and stealing many regulars from the miscellaneous tables) when it looked like it was gonna be 4E or nothing.

Now the list of names of prospective players of which half wanted to play 3.something was longer, but they weren't around, possibly because it rather looks like baby sitter guy put together some sort of email list and a schedule and told everyone behind the scenes that THIS month and the next were "4E" months on his schedule. Baby sitter man seems to be somewhat of an over organized type.

And indeed pretty much what DOES give? This is not normally such a proscribed gaming group. You turn up, you grab a few people you start a game.

I thought the same would go for D&D. But apparently there is a, apparently self appointed, "D&D Zar" who for some inexplicable reason is in complete control of D&D organization, and he seriously has transfered all the would be D&D players OFF the public forum and ONTO his fucking email list and he has a fucking schedule and he put fucking 4E at the top.

Pathfinder, the game that garnered all the attention for the brief public stint of organization on the forum was instead scheduled as "back up game", I mean the fucking GM was there and everything, I made it clear that I had turned up for the 3.something as god damn advertised and was disappointed by being presented unexpectedly with 4E, even pathfinder guy was reluctant to play 4E, but no fucking flexibility, the D&D Zar had supplied us with a 4E GM not with a 3E player and screw us all come hell or high water 4E GM and D&D Zar would have us play 4E.

I did what I felt was sensible, and SLIGHTLY diplomatic, and put up a post on the forum. I want to play 3E next month, it isn't FAIR on the poor old 4E players to do the organizing for me, so I'm helping them out and being proactive, if anyone doesn't want to play 4E for an extra month I'm running a game, I will be there and ready to do so regardless and I'm selling it hard on the "not a canned purchased adventure" and "player input is welcome because this one is SHARED story telling" angles.

By the way, if anyone is in the Newcastle area of NSW next month... I'm sufficiently peeved that I want to successfully run at least one fucking game at this club, so Imma recruiting anyone anyhow.

I would love for SOMEONE in this damn community to at least SEE a real D&D game. Seriously basically the ONLY thing these guys play are the latest WOTC promotional canned adventures, with 10 year old boys, it's hideous. Even if I have to bus in every damn player myself I want them to at least be VAGUELY exposed to the concept that SOMEONE SOMEWHERE plays D&D games that don't come out of a fucking can.

It would also help for them to see people who aren't 10 year old boys enjoying a table top role playing game.

fectin · Post by **fectin** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:30 pm

That is shitty and dumb. What actually stopped you from grabbing some people and playing anyway? Was t just that one guy's say-so? Is he the store owner or something, desperate to prevent spontanious gaming?

Aside: what's the right spelling on that word? I always thought it was Czar. Have I been doing it wrong?

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:11 pm

fectin wrote:Aside: what's the right spelling on that word? I always thought it was Czar. Have I been doing it wrong?

Tzar, Tsar, Czar, and Csar are different spellings of the same word. I like Csar best, because the word descends from Caesar.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:20 pm

In Czech it is spelled "car", but that is because the "c" is pronounced like the "ts" at the end of "cats".

-Username17

shadzar · Post by **shadzar** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:30 pm

fectin wrote:Aside: what's the right spelling on that word? I always thought it was Czar. Have I been doing it wrong?

For my sake I chose the Czar version...

Yeah I would have just sat everyone down to a table and played if you have enough for non-4th edition.

I am sure you went and posted on those gaming forums, asking why they scheduled D&D during a time the store was converted to a day care center and wasted adult paying customers time to attend the store and stand around for nothing.

If you paid to play and didnt get to, then file charges to compensate for the cost of playing as well as travel fees.

fectin · Post by **fectin** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:05 pm

I'd try calling the store and asking if they know anyplace that hosts tabletop DnD first. If they say there, you get confused, because you had made arrangements to meet up with some other folks there on [day], but hadn't been allowed to play/had been kicked out/whatever.

Be scrupulously polite, be sad, be confused why you weren't allowed to play there. Don't be a dick.

That's assuming you actually want to find a game. If you just want the satisfaction, tear them a new one.

PhoneLobster · Post by **PhoneLobster** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:12 pm

Its not a store its a club event in a community hall, there IS a small fee and that pissed me off because it was a waste of my money but it was nothing and that happens some months even with just the board games they normally play.

And ultimately the final obstacle to just "grabbing some guys" was that the few guys left available seemed to be willing to concede to the mysterious organized schedule ahead of their own expressed preferences, after all they were told fair is fair it was 4E's turn (like it apparently ALWAYS IS) or had already bugared off to do something else because of it.

edit: might I add this is NOT normal routine there. You do NOT play Settlers of Catan for two months because its "that games turn" before being allowed to round up guys for a game of Robo Rally or something, people just play whatever they feel like and can spontaneously form a group around, and if that means Settlers of Catan is ignored and doesn't get a turn then screw Settlers, it doesn't get a turn. This is what annoys and utterly confuses me about the event, the formation of the secret mailing list, the D&D Czar and the mysterious inflexible Schedule is ALL "WTF?" material.

fectin · Post by **fectin** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:38 pm

Find another comunity hall, and start your own secret club?

PhoneLobster · Post by **PhoneLobster** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:34 pm

fectin wrote:Find another comunity hall, and start your own secret club?

Or in other words run my own RPG group, which I already do. This isn't a "I can't find a D&D group!" thread. This is a "they told me I just found ANOTHER D&D group, but it was a bait and switch!" thread. Now if I DIDN'T have another D&D group BOY would I be depressed. As it is an opportunity for more gaming, and maybe recruiting a little extra new blood for my more long term private gaming groups was a big fat waste of my time.

The issue here was the bait and switch, what looked like an advertised opportunity for playing MORE 3.something with like new and different players, that some fucking 4E wanna be D&D Czar had mysteriously corrupted into a scheduled 4E event without telling anyone.

We had five prospective players, some made no pronouncement of preference but of those that did 3 wanted to play 3E, 2 of us walked rather than play the 4E game and only the Pathfinder fan reluctantly stayed. Why did this happen? Damned if I know. I'm STILL puzzled, and angry.

TheFlatline · Post by **TheFlatline** » Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:30 am

It's not bait and switch. It sounds like you showed up late and something had already been organized.

Granted, the "organizer" was a penis wrinkle, but if gaming is supposed to start at 3pm, and I show up at 4 or 5, and can't get a game I want going (especially when we're talking about RPGs which take up an entire session), I'm not going to be surprised.

And I literally cannot imagine 2 or 3 people wanting to play 3.x or pathfinder and saying "you know... that dude over there said that we're only playing 4th edition, so even if I want to play something else, I'm not going to" after paying to play.

There's something missing from this equation. Either the people in question are 12 or the entry fee was paid for by someone else or *something*.

PhoneLobster · Post by **PhoneLobster** » Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:10 am

TheFlatline wrote: if gaming is supposed to start at 3pm, and I show up at 4 or 5, and can't get a game I want going

Apparently the 4E scheduled GM had, in secret scheduling not released on the public forum, been scheduled to start at 4pm the club event actually starts at 3 pm he actually arrived "early" but I was in fact there about 20 minutes or more BEFORE he was, since I arrive shortly BEFORE 3 pm The last players to join the group arrived at about 3:40pm well before the GM was even supposed to turn up, at least one player had bailed on the 4E experience already by about 3:20pm. They apparently gained NO further players AFTER the official 4pm start and ran with 1 GM and 3 players, which is what I regard as an acceptable absolute minimum for D&D but which may well be a bit behind the curve for 4E.

So I turned up early, he turned up late and was, apparently, in some announcement not made to the general public club forum SUPPOSED to turn up even later.

I DID turn up late for the forum discussion, the forum interest in D&D was a bit of a surprise. With no reasonable expectation of anyone reading it before the event at that stage I didn't put up a post saying "I'm in" or "I offer to run", nor did I email the address that some guy posted which seems to have become the basis for some sort of out of the public eye organizing that the 4E baby sitter apparently dominated for absolutely no obvious reason (seriously, his game is organized already, why is he organizing ANYONE else's game, let alone EVERYONE else's? No really WTF?).

And I literally cannot imagine 2 or 3 people wanting to play 3.x or pathfinder and saying "you know... that dude over there said that we're only playing 4th edition, so even if I want to play something else, I'm not going to" after paying to play.

Neither could I. THEN IT HAPPENED. This is what amazes me. This is why I wrote up a post, this is the big "WTF?" in question.

or the entry fee was paid for by someone else or *something*.

It is entirely possible the entry fee just plain wasn't paid. Club administration is lax and at least 2 if not 4 of the prospective players were newbies and get the first club event free. Also it's pretty damn cheap.

Vnonymous · Post by **Vnonymous** » Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:33 am

I'm not in Newcastle, but I am in Sydney. If it wasn't a 40 minute plane trip or 2 hour drive I'd totally come and game with you.

If anyone else is in Sydney though, feel free to get in touch.